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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1979157 times)
uki
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February 22, 2015, 02:45:49 PM
 #21441

bitcoin has a controlled amount , there could be a million kg of gold undiscovered.
Not really.
the gold resources that were not mined yet, are already identified and are scarce as well (that is why gold is one of the precious metals).
Also the ore quality is decreasing, so it costs more to get the same amount of gold.

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cypherdoc
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February 22, 2015, 05:11:51 PM
 #21442

increasing decentralization:

marcus_of_augustus
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February 22, 2015, 08:33:28 PM
 #21443

bitcoin has a controlled amount , there could be a million kg of gold undiscovered.
Not really.
the gold resources that were not mined yet, are already identified and are scarce as well (that is why gold is one of the precious metals).
Also the ore quality is decreasing, so it costs more to get the same amount of gold.

Not really.

Asteroid mining is now within the realms of becoming viable. The gold resources there will dwarf anything seen on this planet. Once the transport mechanisms have been developed for recovery the gold is imminently more accessible, i.e. it is basically there in a pure form waiting to be "picked up".

uki
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February 22, 2015, 08:52:49 PM
 #21444

bitcoin has a controlled amount , there could be a million kg of gold undiscovered.
Not really.
the gold resources that were not mined yet, are already identified and are scarce as well (that is why gold is one of the precious metals).
Also the ore quality is decreasing, so it costs more to get the same amount of gold.

Not really.

Asteroid mining is now within the realms of becoming viable. The gold resources there will dwarf anything seen on this planet. Once the transport mechanisms have been developed for recovery the gold is imminently more accessible, i.e. it is basically there in a pure form waiting to be "picked up".
Viable? What does this exactly mean, can you elaborate a bit?
Asteroid-mining pops up from time to time as a "game-changer" in the press, but the fact is for now there is nothing mature enough to affect the price of gold.
We may use this as an argument once this becomes a real possibility, for now it is a bit off-topic, I am afraid.

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molecular
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February 22, 2015, 09:08:01 PM
 #21445

My favourite client, Armory, will also support Trezor in the future.

This is good news and should satisfy cyphers privacy needs.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
marcus_of_augustus
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February 22, 2015, 09:17:38 PM
 #21446

bitcoin has a controlled amount , there could be a million kg of gold undiscovered.
Not really.
the gold resources that were not mined yet, are already identified and are scarce as well (that is why gold is one of the precious metals).
Also the ore quality is decreasing, so it costs more to get the same amount of gold.

Not really.

Asteroid mining is now within the realms of becoming viable. The gold resources there will dwarf anything seen on this planet. Once the transport mechanisms have been developed for recovery the gold is imminently more accessible, i.e. it is basically there in a pure form waiting to be "picked up".
Viable? What does this exactly mean, can you elaborate a bit?
Asteroid-mining pops up from time to time as a "game-changer" in the press, but the fact is for now there is nothing mature enough to affect the price of gold.
We may use this as an argument once this becomes a real possibility, for now it is a bit off-topic, I am afraid.

Point being, you said gold was scarce and this is incorrect. More correctly it is technically inaccessible, for now.

Viable means economic to retrieve in this context, if that was not obvious. There is now an identifiable technology development path towards retrieving gold from asteroids, do your own research on this if you do not believe me, I don't have time to lay it all out for you. Time and costs to becoming viable will only decrease from here onwards.

cypherdoc
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February 22, 2015, 09:45:30 PM
 #21447

My favourite client, Armory, will also support Trezor in the future.

This is good news and should satisfy cyphers privacy needs.


Yeah, once these 2 get integrated, it'll be a dynamite combination for security.
cypherdoc
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February 22, 2015, 09:51:05 PM
 #21448

bitcoin has a controlled amount , there could be a million kg of gold undiscovered.
Not really.
the gold resources that were not mined yet, are already identified and are scarce as well (that is why gold is one of the precious metals).
Also the ore quality is decreasing, so it costs more to get the same amount of gold.

Not really.

Asteroid mining is now within the realms of becoming viable. The gold resources there will dwarf anything seen on this planet. Once the transport mechanisms have been developed for recovery the gold is imminently more accessible, i.e. it is basically there in a pure form waiting to be "picked up".
Viable? What does this exactly mean, can you elaborate a bit?
Asteroid-mining pops up from time to time as a "game-changer" in the press, but the fact is for now there is nothing mature enough to affect the price of gold.
We may use this as an argument once this becomes a real possibility, for now it is a bit off-topic, I am afraid.

Point being, you said gold was scarce and this is incorrect. More correctly it is technically inaccessible, for now.

Viable means economic to retrieve in this context, if that was not obvious. There is now an identifiable technology development path towards retrieving gold from asteroids, do your own research on this if you do not believe me, I don't have time to lay it all out for you. Time and costs to becoming viable will only decrease from here onwards.

Ever since the Philae Lander, one cannot doubt any of these claims.
uki
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February 22, 2015, 10:11:26 PM
 #21449

bitcoin has a controlled amount , there could be a million kg of gold undiscovered.
Not really.
the gold resources that were not mined yet, are already identified and are scarce as well (that is why gold is one of the precious metals).
Also the ore quality is decreasing, so it costs more to get the same amount of gold.

Not really.

Asteroid mining is now within the realms of becoming viable. The gold resources there will dwarf anything seen on this planet. Once the transport mechanisms have been developed for recovery the gold is imminently more accessible, i.e. it is basically there in a pure form waiting to be "picked up".
Viable? What does this exactly mean, can you elaborate a bit?
Asteroid-mining pops up from time to time as a "game-changer" in the press, but the fact is for now there is nothing mature enough to affect the price of gold.
We may use this as an argument once this becomes a real possibility, for now it is a bit off-topic, I am afraid.

Point being, you said gold was scarce and this is incorrect. More correctly it is technically inaccessible, for now.

Viable means economic to retrieve in this context, if that was not obvious. There is now an identifiable technology development path towards retrieving gold from asteroids, do your own research on this if you do not believe me, I don't have time to lay it all out for you. Time and costs to becoming viable will only decrease from here onwards.
All right.
Being involved in the gold market much longer than I am in Bitcoin, I would still stick to my claim that gold is still a scarce metal until proven otherwise. Yes, potentially there is gold beyond Earth that one day, in 20, 50 or maybe 150 years can be explored. But for now, it is only a remote possibility with no real influence on the price.

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silverfuture
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February 23, 2015, 01:28:43 AM
 #21450

bitcoin has a controlled amount , there could be a million kg of gold undiscovered.
Not really.
the gold resources that were not mined yet, are already identified and are scarce as well (that is why gold is one of the precious metals).
Also the ore quality is decreasing, so it costs more to get the same amount of gold.

Not really.

Asteroid mining is now within the realms of becoming viable. The gold resources there will dwarf anything seen on this planet. Once the transport mechanisms have been developed for recovery the gold is imminently more accessible, i.e. it is basically there in a pure form waiting to be "picked up".
Viable? What does this exactly mean, can you elaborate a bit?
Asteroid-mining pops up from time to time as a "game-changer" in the press, but the fact is for now there is nothing mature enough to affect the price of gold.
We may use this as an argument once this becomes a real possibility, for now it is a bit off-topic, I am afraid.

Point being, you said gold was scarce and this is incorrect. More correctly it is technically inaccessible, for now.

Viable means economic to retrieve in this context, if that was not obvious. There is now an identifiable technology development path towards retrieving gold from asteroids, do your own research on this if you do not believe me, I don't have time to lay it all out for you. Time and costs to becoming viable will only decrease from here onwards.
All right.
Being involved in the gold market much longer than I am in Bitcoin, I would still stick to my claim that gold is still a scarce metal until proven otherwise. Yes, potentially there is gold beyond Earth that one day, in 20, 50 or maybe 150 years can be explored. But for now, it is only a remote possibility with no real influence on the price.

It is scarce and incredibly difficult to get gold off planet for the foreseeable future. However, gold's majority of use case at the moment is as money. That has been fine but there is now a much better money than gold with some of the attractive qualities of gold that threatens to take over a large portion of that use case demand. I'm sure as time goes on it will retain it's lesser decorative, medicinal, industrial, and superconductor uses and will remain valuable in those regards.

The Rhino super villain character from the '70s Spiderman animated TV show used to absolutely go nuts for the stuff!


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worth
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February 23, 2015, 02:23:02 AM
 #21451

bitcoin has a controlled amount , there could be a million kg of gold undiscovered.
Not really.
the gold resources that were not mined yet, are already identified and are scarce as well (that is why gold is one of the precious metals).
Also the ore quality is decreasing, so it costs more to get the same amount of gold.

Not really.

Asteroid mining is now within the realms of becoming viable. The gold resources there will dwarf anything seen on this planet. Once the transport mechanisms have been developed for recovery the gold is imminently more accessible, i.e. it is basically there in a pure form waiting to be "picked up".

Don't forget there's a ton of it in the oceans in fine particulate form that hasn't been profitable to "mine" but will become more so as we start refining ocean water for drinking on a large scale.  Not to mention, gold is considered valuable for other reasons than scarcity such as being highly conductive, malleable, ductile, non-corrosive, etc.  

These qualities will be equaled and surpassed in time by newer materials.  All of the above will contribute to the long-term decline of the value of gold.  

I talk about most of these things more in-depth in this video I recorded last year and recently uploaded to YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sceRsmT1yc

cypherdoc
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February 23, 2015, 02:59:06 AM
 #21452

the Dow Theory non-confirmation grows larger and larger.  the US is not out of the woods, contrary to popular opinion:

smooth
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February 23, 2015, 03:02:50 AM
 #21453

bitcoin has a controlled amount , there could be a million kg of gold undiscovered.
Not really.
the gold resources that were not mined yet, are already identified and are scarce as well (that is why gold is one of the precious metals).
Also the ore quality is decreasing, so it costs more to get the same amount of gold.

Sounds a lot like peak oil. How did that turn out?

Bits beat atoms. Every damn time.
dnaleor
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Want privacy? Use Monero!


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February 23, 2015, 03:26:01 AM
 #21454

My favourite client, Armory, will also support Trezor in the future.

This is good news and should satisfy cyphers privacy needs.


finally Cheesy

Searching for a trusted escrow service? Check my trust. I use a Trezor device for my escrow services, so your coins are safe. Fee: 0.5% or 0.05 BTC, whichever is lower
I support the largest public transparent p2p ledger Bitcoin (16TwXyEmpz7xKHbyVufZECXGFmUH9wHUyW) and the best private fungible digital cash Monero (dnaleor.weuse.cash)
Cetere mi opinias ke Dasho estas detruenda.     |     1Credit - Fair emission, better than BTC > CLCqECaYpCahgKRsXJiVBzgsiz57ZHfr4u
cypherdoc
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February 23, 2015, 03:51:35 AM
 #21455

Citizen Four Wins!
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February 23, 2015, 05:01:15 AM
 #21456

Citizen Four Wins!

It's a great movie and deserved to win.  Snowden is the baddest boy on the planet.  All the women want him and all the men want to be him.

He shit all over Barack "He's no hero" Obama's lying/spying face.  No wonder the poor butthurt DailyKos libtards call him "white boy."  Aww boo-hoo, their magic unicorn turned out to be Bush On Steroids, exactly as predicted.

My favorite parts are when Ed uses the phrase "pro tip" to tell Glen not to leave (radioactive) SD cards in his laptop, and when he describes (1:07) how uber-1337 his privileged access "PrivAc" level was.  D00D!!!1! 

Ha ha you Stasi ratfucks, the Ron Paul Army's cyberwar division completely rooted your box!   Cool

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
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February 23, 2015, 02:49:15 PM
 #21457



http://cointelegraph.com/news/113537/german-bank-unveils-insured-express-bitcoin-buying-moves-into-us-market
uki
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February 23, 2015, 02:52:03 PM
 #21458

that is indeed very good news! Glad, I am using bitcoin.de, despite their relatively high fees (1% shared between buyer and seller).
I am fine paying a bit more higher fees, provided there can be some kind of guarantee on the funds held at the exchange (statutory German 100k€).

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rocks
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February 23, 2015, 06:38:04 PM
 #21459

can the Trezor ppl see our balances and tx's while the Trezor is logged into myTrezor.com?

Out of curiosity, how do you guys plan on using your Trezor? I looked into them, like the idea and would like to get one, but couldn't see how a Trezor would fit into how I currently manage my BTC.

In my case I use Armory offline wallets for primary BTC storage, with secure HD seed backups so I'm confident I can always restore the wallets. For day to day usage I keep a small amount in Mycelium, and use this for buying pizza, etc. To fund Mycelium, in Armory I create spending addresses with a small amount of BTC and export the private key to Mycelium. The advantage to this is if I lose my phone, the BTC are recoverable in Armory or HD seed backups. The worse case is if someone steals and breaks my phone, I can only lose the amount on the phone (similar to cash in a real wallet). I like this method because: 1)  I can store and use BTC on my phone without worrying about losing the coins because they are simultaneously in Armory (which is an awesome property of Bitcoin) and 2) Only a small amount are ever "at risk", with the majority secure in Armory.

Because of this I can't see how a Trezor would fit. So how do you guys use it?
cypherdoc
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February 23, 2015, 07:08:47 PM
 #21460

can the Trezor ppl see our balances and tx's while the Trezor is logged into myTrezor.com?

Out of curiosity, how do you guys plan on using your Trezor? I looked into them, like the idea and would like to get one, but couldn't see how a Trezor would fit into how I currently manage my BTC.

In my case I use Armory offline wallets for primary BTC storage, with secure HD seed backups so I'm confident I can always restore the wallets. For day to day usage I keep a small amount in Mycelium, and use this for buying pizza, etc. To fund Mycelium, in Armory I create spending addresses with a small amount of BTC and export the private key to Mycelium. The advantage to this is if I lose my phone, the BTC are recoverable in Armory or HD seed backups. The worse case is if someone steals and breaks my phone, I can only lose the amount on the phone (similar to cash in a real wallet). I like this method because: 1)  I can store and use BTC on my phone without worrying about losing the coins because they are simultaneously in Armory (which is an awesome property of Bitcoin) and 2) Only a small amount are ever "at risk", with the majority secure in Armory.

Because of this I can't see how a Trezor would fit. So how do you guys use it?

i foresee the Trezor replacing the offline wallet and its pc and being more secure since the offline wallets can be susceptible to a USB malware attack.  as far as i know, there is no way to get privkeys off a Trezor so in that sense it is safer.  i would hope you could just plug it into your online pc to sign tx's from the online Armory watching only wallets.  we'll have to see what Armory comes up with.

i don't understand how or why you are using HD seeds since Armory currently only generates linear deterministic keypairs, not hierarchical.  i also wouldn't bother exporting privkeys from the offline Armory wallet since you can just make a HD seed backup of your Mycelium wallet that can be restored in case of theft or loss while avoiding excessive and unnecessary exposure to USB attacks from accessing the offline wallet.
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