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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805267 times)
sidhujag
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February 26, 2015, 03:34:22 AM
 #21581

With as many people predicting a stock crash, I wouldn't be surprised to see another QE appear just in time to screw everyone who is sensibly short.
No sense in qe right now as economy is seemingly stable.. it will happen once usd goes parabolic
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February 26, 2015, 03:44:17 AM
 #21582

Fed policy is, "how can we enrich the insiders by screwing everyone else?"
Cconvert2G36
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February 26, 2015, 03:49:06 AM
 #21583

With as many people predicting a stock crash, I wouldn't be surprised to see another QE appear just in time to screw everyone who is sensibly short.
No sense in qe right now as economy is seemingly stable.. it will happen once usd goes parabolic

Parabolic deflation of USD?... What forum am I on?!
sidhujag
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February 26, 2015, 04:02:42 AM
 #21584

With as many people predicting a stock crash, I wouldn't be surprised to see another QE appear just in time to screw everyone who is sensibly short.
No sense in qe right now as economy is seemingly stable.. it will happen once usd goes parabolic

Parabolic deflation of USD?... What forum am I on?!

Look at the charts, read between the lines..
Cconvert2G36
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February 26, 2015, 04:15:24 AM
 #21585

With as many people predicting a stock crash, I wouldn't be surprised to see another QE appear just in time to screw everyone who is sensibly short.
No sense in qe right now as economy is seemingly stable.. it will happen once usd goes parabolic

Parabolic deflation of USD?... What forum am I on?!

Look at the charts, read between the lines..

Wow, burn.
HeliKopterBen
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February 26, 2015, 05:02:31 AM
 #21586

With as many people predicting a stock crash, I wouldn't be surprised to see another QE appear just in time to screw everyone who is sensibly short.
No sense in qe right now as economy is seemingly stable.. it will happen once usd goes parabolic


I called for USD volatility back in July and it looks like we got the deflation variety so far.  What is interesting is that the USD is above the highs in 2009 without the collapse in stocks.  This trend could continue for a while but eventually I suspect stocks will turn down prompting another round of QE.  




Currencies around the world are beginning to collapse:  Russian Ruble, Ukrainian hryvnia, Swiss Franc debacle, and uprecedented easing.  This may result in a cascading effect, beginning with fiat currencies of smaller countries but eventually encompassing larger, more well-known currencies such as the euro and the dollar.  Bitcoin and potentially a select few other digital currencies should rise from the ashes as dominant world currencies.  

Counterfeit:  made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive:  merriam-webster
billyjoeallen
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February 26, 2015, 05:28:48 AM
 #21587



Opinion: Stock-market crash of 2016: The countdown begins

Dow will drop 50% as market replays 2008, 2000 and 1929

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/stock-market-crash-of-2016-the-countdown-begins-2015-02-25?mod=MW_story_recommended_default


Any thoughts?

It could easily be much worse. Last time the Fed slashed interest rates to zero to stop the hemorrhaging.  They are STILL at zero seven years later. There are very few bullets left in the gun without resorting to outright counterfeiting. This has already started in Japan and Europe (quantitative easing).

The entire system is leveraged to the hilt and nothing will stop the deflationary pressure when the money multiplier of fractional reserve lending runs in reverse. There could be bank holidays. After that, capital controls.

This will be much different than what's happening in Ukraine. It will be a deflationary collapse.


insert coin here:
1Ctd7Na8qE7btyueEshAJF5C7ZqFWH11Wc

Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
https://campbx.com/register.php?r=0Y7YxohTV0B
Cconvert2G36
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February 26, 2015, 05:52:57 AM
 #21588



Opinion: Stock-market crash of 2016: The countdown begins

Dow will drop 50% as market replays 2008, 2000 and 1929

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/stock-market-crash-of-2016-the-countdown-begins-2015-02-25?mod=MW_story_recommended_default


Any thoughts?

It could easily be much worse. Last time the Fed slashed interest rates to zero to stop the hemorrhaging.  They are STILL at zero seven years later. There are very few bullets left in the gun without resorting to outright counterfeiting. This has already started in Japan and Europe (quantitative easing).

The entire system is leveraged to the hilt and nothing will stop the deflationary pressure when the money multiplier of fractional reserve lending runs in reverse. There could be bank holidays. After that, capital controls.

This will be much different than what's happening in Ukraine. It will be a deflationary collapse.



In the US... They've doubled the money supply in the last decade, and the only tool is printing more, where does deflation come in, in this equation?
lunarboy
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February 26, 2015, 05:54:18 AM
 #21589

With as many people predicting a stock crash, I wouldn't be surprised to see another QE appear just in time to screw everyone who is sensibly short.

Wait for the EU QE madness to end first ... then I think you might be on to something. mid 2016 ;-)


just in time for the next halving  Tongue
Adrian-x
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February 26, 2015, 07:12:34 AM
 #21590

This Is What Happens To Gold Incondition rency Crisis Redux:



> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-25/what-happens-gold-currency-crisis-redux

sadly bitcoin stays still.

Sadly over 4000 Bitcoin ATM's go unused and the US backed government shipped all there gold over to the US.


Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
billyjoeallen
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February 26, 2015, 07:18:59 AM
 #21591



Opinion: Stock-market crash of 2016: The countdown begins

Dow will drop 50% as market replays 2008, 2000 and 1929

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/stock-market-crash-of-2016-the-countdown-begins-2015-02-25?mod=MW_story_recommended_default


Any thoughts?

It could easily be much worse. Last time the Fed slashed interest rates to zero to stop the hemorrhaging.  They are STILL at zero seven years later. There are very few bullets left in the gun without resorting to outright counterfeiting. This has already started in Japan and Europe (quantitative easing).

The entire system is leveraged to the hilt and nothing will stop the deflationary pressure when the money multiplier of fractional reserve lending runs in reverse. There could be bank holidays. After that, capital controls.

This will be much different than what's happening in Ukraine. It will be a deflationary collapse.



In the US... They've doubled the money supply in the last decade, and the only tool is printing more, where does deflation come in, in this equation?

less than 10% of U.S. dollars are created by Federal Reserve balance sheet expansion. The rest are created when fractional reserve banks lend out demand deposits, meaning the money is in two places at once. (in your checking account and with the loan recipient).   This is the money multiplier. But when banks stop lending as they did in 2008, the existing loans still are getting paid back so the money created out of thin air disappears. The money multiplier runs in reverse. Less money chasing the same amount of goods and services= deflation.

insert coin here:
1Ctd7Na8qE7btyueEshAJF5C7ZqFWH11Wc

Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
https://campbx.com/register.php?r=0Y7YxohTV0B
Melbustus
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February 26, 2015, 08:16:27 AM
 #21592



Opinion: Stock-market crash of 2016: The countdown begins

Dow will drop 50% as market replays 2008, 2000 and 1929

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/stock-market-crash-of-2016-the-countdown-begins-2015-02-25?mod=MW_story_recommended_default


Any thoughts?

It could easily be much worse. Last time the Fed slashed interest rates to zero to stop the hemorrhaging.  They are STILL at zero seven years later. There are very few bullets left in the gun without resorting to outright counterfeiting. This has already started in Japan and Europe (quantitative easing).

The entire system is leveraged to the hilt and nothing will stop the deflationary pressure when the money multiplier of fractional reserve lending runs in reverse. There could be bank holidays. After that, capital controls.

This will be much different than what's happening in Ukraine. It will be a deflationary collapse.



In the US... They've doubled the money supply in the last decade, and the only tool is printing more, where does deflation come in, in this equation?

less than 10% of U.S. dollars are created by Federal Reserve balance sheet expansion. The rest are created when fractional reserve banks lend out demand deposits, meaning the money is in two places at once. (in your checking account and with the loan recipient).   This is the money multiplier. But when banks stop lending as they did in 2008, the existing loans still are getting paid back so the money created out of thin air disappears. The money multiplier runs in reverse. Less money chasing the same amount of goods and services= deflation.


Indeed. The '08-'09 crisis showed an impressive drop that hasn't recovered: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MULT

So what do we think happens if/when it *does* recover, after base-money has been expanded by $Ts? Can and will the Fed contract *perfectly*? This all boils down to how well they can thread the needle.

I don't know about you guys, but my bet is that a small group of people can't perfectly handle an increasingly complex (mathematically chaotic) system with almost absolute perfection over arbitrarily long time-periods.

That said, the only hope is an unprecedented US-tech driven multi-decade global expansion (which can actually happen if regulators and congress back off for a while).

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
hdbuck
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February 26, 2015, 08:26:27 AM
 #21593



Opinion: Stock-market crash of 2016: The countdown begins

Dow will drop 50% as market replays 2008, 2000 and 1929

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/stock-market-crash-of-2016-the-countdown-begins-2015-02-25?mod=MW_story_recommended_default


Any thoughts?

It could easily be much worse. Last time the Fed slashed interest rates to zero to stop the hemorrhaging.  They are STILL at zero seven years later. There are very few bullets left in the gun without resorting to outright counterfeiting. This has already started in Japan and Europe (quantitative easing).

The entire system is leveraged to the hilt and nothing will stop the deflationary pressure when the money multiplier of fractional reserve lending runs in reverse. There could be bank holidays. After that, capital controls.

This will be much different than what's happening in Ukraine. It will be a deflationary collapse.



In the US... They've doubled the money supply in the last decade, and the only tool is printing more, where does deflation come in, in this equation?

less than 10% of U.S. dollars are created by Federal Reserve balance sheet expansion. The rest are created when fractional reserve banks lend out demand deposits, meaning the money is in two places at once. (in your checking account and with the loan recipient).   This is the money multiplier. But when banks stop lending as they did in 2008, the existing loans still are getting paid back so the money created out of thin air disappears. The money multiplier runs in reverse. Less money chasing the same amount of goods and services= deflation.


Indeed. The '08-'09 crisis showed an impressive drop that hasn't recovered: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MULT

So what do we think happens if/when it *does* recover, after base-money has been expanded by $Ts? Can and will the Fed contract *perfectly*? This all boils down to how well they can thread the needle.

I don't know about you guys, but my bet is that a small group of people can't perfectly handle an increasingly complex (mathematically chaotic) system with almost absolute perfection over arbitrarily long time-periods.

That said, the only hope is an unprecedented US-tech driven multi-decade global expansion (which can actually happen if regulators and congress back off for a while).

You are underestimating the prevalence of the status quo and the propension of humans to adapt to terrible conditions.
There is quite a margin left to squeeze on the majority of US/EU citizens..  

Sure Yellen seems quite itchy lately, but eh, saul goodmanTM..

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-25/janet-yellen-freaking-out-about-audit-fed-%E2%80%93-here-are-100-reasons-why-she-should-be
inca
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February 26, 2015, 09:22:33 AM
 #21594



Opinion: Stock-market crash of 2016: The countdown begins

Dow will drop 50% as market replays 2008, 2000 and 1929

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/stock-market-crash-of-2016-the-countdown-begins-2015-02-25?mod=MW_story_recommended_default


Any thoughts?

It could easily be much worse. Last time the Fed slashed interest rates to zero to stop the hemorrhaging.  They are STILL at zero seven years later. There are very few bullets left in the gun without resorting to outright counterfeiting. This has already started in Japan and Europe (quantitative easing).

The entire system is leveraged to the hilt and nothing will stop the deflationary pressure when the money multiplier of fractional reserve lending runs in reverse. There could be bank holidays. After that, capital controls.

This will be much different than what's happening in Ukraine. It will be a deflationary collapse.



In the US... They've doubled the money supply in the last decade, and the only tool is printing more, where does deflation come in, in this equation?

The narrow money supply is a tiny amount compared to the leviathon of credit money.
tabnloz
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February 26, 2015, 10:08:15 AM
 #21595



Opinion: Stock-market crash of 2016: The countdown begins

Dow will drop 50% as market replays 2008, 2000 and 1929

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/stock-market-crash-of-2016-the-countdown-begins-2015-02-25?mod=MW_story_recommended_default


Any thoughts?

It could easily be much worse. Last time the Fed slashed interest rates to zero to stop the hemorrhaging.  They are STILL at zero seven years later. There are very few bullets left in the gun without resorting to outright counterfeiting. This has already started in Japan and Europe (quantitative easing).

The entire system is leveraged to the hilt and nothing will stop the deflationary pressure when the money multiplier of fractional reserve lending runs in reverse. There could be bank holidays. After that, capital controls.

This will be much different than what's happening in Ukraine. It will be a deflationary collapse.



In the US... They've doubled the money supply in the last decade, and the only tool is printing more, where does deflation come in, in this equation?

less than 10% of U.S. dollars are created by Federal Reserve balance sheet expansion. The rest are created when fractional reserve banks lend out demand deposits, meaning the money is in two places at once. (in your checking account and with the loan recipient).   This is the money multiplier. But when banks stop lending as they did in 2008, the existing loans still are getting paid back so the money created out of thin air disappears. The money multiplier runs in reverse. Less money chasing the same amount of goods and services= deflation.


Indeed. The '08-'09 crisis showed an impressive drop that hasn't recovered: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MULT

So what do we think happens if/when it *does* recover, after base-money has been expanded by $Ts? Can and will the Fed contract *perfectly*? This all boils down to how well they can thread the needle.

I don't know about you guys, but my bet is that a small group of people can't perfectly handle an increasingly complex (mathematically chaotic) system with almost absolute perfection over arbitrarily long time-periods.

That said, the only hope is an unprecedented US-tech driven multi-decade global expansion (which can actually happen if regulators and congress back off for a while).

The Fed is playing it by ear. They can't know the long term outcome of extended periods of ZIRP/NIRP - it's the most consequential live experiment in history, yet it gave us Bitcoin.
Pruden
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February 26, 2015, 10:52:28 AM
 #21596


So what do we think happens if/when it *does* recover, after base-money has been expanded by $Ts? Can and will the Fed contract *perfectly*? This all boils down to how well they can thread the needle.

I don't know about you guys, but my bet is that a small group of people can't perfectly handle an increasingly complex (mathematically chaotic) system with almost absolute perfection over arbitrarily long time-periods.

The problem is that the Fed keeps purchased assets in its balance at purchase value. When they are sold the new, probably inferior, value would have to be recognized, and the difference will be inflation. How they will do this in a controlled fashion is anyone's guess

http://mises.org/library/can-fed-successfully-exit

inca
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February 26, 2015, 11:40:54 AM
 #21597


So what do we think happens if/when it *does* recover, after base-money has been expanded by $Ts? Can and will the Fed contract *perfectly*? This all boils down to how well they can thread the needle.

I don't know about you guys, but my bet is that a small group of people can't perfectly handle an increasingly complex (mathematically chaotic) system with almost absolute perfection over arbitrarily long time-periods.

The problem is that the Fed keeps purchased assets in its balance at purchase value. When they are sold the new, probably inferior, value would have to be recognized, and the difference will be inflation. How they will do this in a controlled fashion is anyone's guess

http://mises.org/library/can-fed-successfully-exit

Why do they need to be sold? Why do people worry about Americas debt to GDP level when 1/3 of it is held by the federal reserve (and therefore does not exist in the conventional sense of carrying a cost burden)?
sidhujag
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February 26, 2015, 01:00:14 PM
 #21598

With as many people predicting a stock crash, I wouldn't be surprised to see another QE appear just in time to screw everyone who is sensibly short.
No sense in qe right now as economy is seemingly stable.. it will happen once usd goes parabolic


I called for USD volatility back in July and it looks like we got the deflation variety so far.  What is interesting is that the USD is above the highs in 2009 without the collapse in stocks.  This trend could continue for a while but eventually I suspect stocks will turn down prompting another round of QE.  




Currencies around the world are beginning to collapse:  Russian Ruble, Ukrainian hryvnia, Swiss Franc debacle, and uprecedented easing.  This may result in a cascading effect, beginning with fiat currencies of smaller countries but eventually encompassing larger, more well-known currencies such as the euro and the dollar.  Bitcoin and potentially a select few other digital currencies should rise from the ashes as dominant world currencies.  

usd and stocks should be positively correlated again.. going up atleast. Atleast for next while

Although bitcoin was designed to be ideal money usd and euro is as of right now
ssmc2
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February 26, 2015, 02:35:07 PM
 #21599

Rest assured there will be another round of QE in the US within the next year. That, combined with the next halving anticipation, should precipitate some upward movement for BTC.
NotLambchop
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February 26, 2015, 02:42:34 PM
 #21600

... That, combined with the next halving anticipation, should precipitate some upward movement for BTC.

Yeah, but it won't.  Nothing seems to help BTC lately Sad
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