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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3049421 times)
eiliant
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November 09, 2013, 04:09:50 AM
 #20381

Broke even with hosting + jupiter Smiley
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November 09, 2013, 04:10:03 AM
 #20382

if i had to guess, they are probably producing units right now, getting ready for mass shipment in a couple of weeks.  I think people are in for a rude awakening after this small difficulty shift.  People that order using BTC now will probably stand to gain 2 or 3 BTC from the venture.

People are betting on the ever increasing price of Bitcoin, which to be honest I started to believe in too lately.
Well not forever increasing, but I can definitely see the potential for a price of over $1000.

2 years ago I deposited £2000 into Intersango and was a mouse click away from buying 1000 bitcoins, but decided against it, because back then I genuinely thought that was the big crash. You have no idea how many times I've imagined what would it be if only I were braver.

In life it is rarely that you regret an action, it is the inactions that we regret mostly, so next time you are presented with a choice I say go for it even if there is some chance you might regret it later. Because if you chicken out and decide not to do it I bet you will regret it much more later Wink
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November 09, 2013, 04:12:15 AM
 #20383

if i had to guess, they are probably producing units right now, getting ready for mass shipment in a couple of weeks.  I think people are in for a rude awakening after this small difficulty shift.  People that order using BTC now will probably stand to gain 2 or 3 BTC from the venture.

People are betting on the ever increasing price of Bitcoin, which to be honest I started to believe in too lately.
Well not forever increasing, but I can definitely see the potential for a price of over $1000.

2 years ago I deposited £2000 into Intersango and was a mouse click away from buying 1000 bitcoins, but decided against it, because back then I genuinely thought that was the big crash. You have no idea how many times I've imagined what would it be if only I were braver.

In life it is rarely that you regret an action, it is the inactions that we regret mostly, so next time you are presented with a choice I say go for it even if there is some chance you might regret it later. Because if you chicken out and decide not to do it I bet you will regret it much more later Wink

me happend similar...  Undecided

so welcome to the club!  Wink
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November 09, 2013, 04:16:31 AM
 #20384

I requested a bitpay refund for 3 November Jupiter's.  I should be receiving a refund of $15,395  ($410 of that was for shipping)

The refund pending option shows $13,896 is what i will get back when logging into my account.  Whut?


It happened to me as well with my refund, their site adds 10% discount everytime they change an order.

They're aware of the issue and should refund you the correct amount, I got mine for the correct amount.

spiccioli
Wow, I'm literally minutes away from ordering(paying for) my second Nov Jupiter...and you guys are bailing....   interesting...

well..i got my unit oct 18th and it is now 3 wks later and i'm 5200 bucks ahead or should I say towards my 7131.80 cost with shipping of my Jupiter ...but on the other hand I'm mining .43btc it seem ave on slush...so......that is gonna drift down as we speak..

again unsure if getting another Jupiter is gonna fly or not....say next diff is 30 percent then after knc run starts 45 percent then back to 30 percent (ie bfl has to eventually get their stuff out worthless to mine thou it may be people will mine it anyway)...so you get your Jupiter by the end of nov that is what 3 difficulty jumps?....now if your bet is BTC is gonna go UP then makes sense I guess

so anyway by my calcs (and the fact btc is in for an adjustment imho downward if even if optimistic hopefully briefly) anyway I can't see you doing much more then breaking even

of course there are worse ways to gamble investment wise ..but then again I have and 8k boat anchor of BFL screwedness going on and forced with the no refund option to 900 gh of monarch cards in jan hopefully( fat chance) so I hope you are correct...if I was not so screwed by bfl i'd maybe take a chance too..and then again with genetic engineering maybe there will be a day in the soon to be future of 'pigs flying' so what do I know

always best to tell people when you are throwing money at stuff it is a 'hobby" people rarely will yell at you that you are an idiot if you spend 8k on a bass fishing boat (they may think you are odd) but much mirth and merriment breaks out when you tell them you spent 8k on bfl equip ......so always lie and say it is a 'hobby' ..am thinking of playing this whole eccentric thing out a bit..get a walking stick ....Sherlock Holmes hat.....cultivate a lisp....go for full on eccentric.....(hey its cover)

anyway I know zip just my 2c worth

Searing

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November 09, 2013, 04:20:18 AM
Last edit: November 09, 2013, 04:52:05 AM by markm
 #20385

Supposedly just holding bitcoins has pretty much always been the most profitable thing to do, so this time I am seriously considering doing just that.

The number of bitcoins I paid for my Saturn, that arrived so late that it has barely started to make a dent in the problem of paying for itself, would be a lot of money right now. It'd buy me two november jupiters with money left over...

Meanwhile the Saturn I spend those coins on hasn't even paid for itself, it is no way anywhere near about to buy me two or even one november jupiter...

So I would be much better off right now if I had resisted the urge to buy that Saturn... and maybe would have had two jupiters by end of november instead... heck maybe three...

-MarkM-

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November 09, 2013, 04:33:05 AM
 #20386

I just stepped deeper into the shit- Order 10xxx.

Wish me luck, some of that never hurts. Wink

Jesus, for $5180 I want a fucking coffee mug or t shirt or something. Cheesy

I as a BFL refugee out 8K salute you......should it not work we can start an ASIC miner foreign legion of lost souls and then make t-shirts

In all seriousness I hope it works out...I have 900gh of vaporware monarch cards I was forced to punt to with bfl's no refund policy..I'd certainly like to be wrong..If you are
correct then if and I mean if bfl manages to get that stuff out in Jan I may get SOME $$$ of this 8k loss back

so again good luck but me i'm tapped out ...all this asic mining on pre-order is a little to close to the edge for me...I got my unit oct 18th and even if I don't cash out the BTC for ROI...It does at least look "in my mind" that I will get ROI but add a 3 week delay to the above by KNC ....ie they found out about the blown caps 1st then delayed even longer say..well...like I said the prices are too high for as close as they run these units out the door price wise and delivery time wise..so KNC may be a lucky exception in this but it was more luck then planning on my part ..so i'm an official fence sitter for now

anyway hope it works ..would mean some salvage possible on the bfl monarchs maybe if btc goes up and or there are delays and knc only game in town for a bit

Searing

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November 09, 2013, 04:57:52 AM
 #20387

I hadn't planned on ordering any November Jupiters, but then the price of BTC went nuts and doubled in a month which actually makes a return in BTC look possible.

Assuming Knc can actually deliver these in November before the difficulty gets to 1 billion, I think a November Jupiter has a fairly decent shot of earning 14 BTC in its useful lifetime.

Of course, this could all turn out to be a fool's errand, so I'm hedging my bets...
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November 09, 2013, 05:02:42 AM
 #20388

Here is a guess on whether a Jupiter will pay off.

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=510929738.01615&dcosts=4500&diff_mincrease=35&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=550000&diff_mincreasedecrease=0.1&btcusd=330&dpowcon=800&btcusd_mincrease=2&pcost=0.15&calcweeks=40&dleadtime=1&action=calc#

$4500
35% Jumps
2% increase in BTC per week
800 Watts power

etc.

You can see the assumptions on the sheet -- modify to your hearts content.

However, if the jumps continue at 35% increase then only a one jump (2 week) delay is acceptable in delivery.

A 2 jump delay -- end of the month -- means a negative ROI.

Take it as you will.

It would be nice to get finer adjustments -- but this should give a reasonable estimate.

Give me this day my daily Bitcoin...
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November 09, 2013, 05:06:24 AM
 #20389

Gee, a tough choice... double your money by just sitting tight with your bitcoins, or hope for a few percent profit by risking a many percent loss...

-MarkM-

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November 09, 2013, 05:20:13 AM
 #20390

I just stepped deeper into the shit- Order 10xxx.

Wish me luck, some of that never hurts. Wink

Jesus, for $5180 I want a fucking coffee mug or t shirt or something. Cheesy

I as a BFL refugee out 8K salute you......should it not work we can start an ASIC miner foreign legion of lost souls and then make t-shirts


Searing

Shit, at this point I'm in the Legion already. T-shirts? Think camoflauged Elvis style jumpsuits. Cheesy
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November 09, 2013, 06:35:22 AM
 #20391

Whats with all these people buying November Jupiters, I hope you are not buying with btc.
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November 09, 2013, 06:50:01 AM
 #20392

I dont get it either...

I'm still praying for ROI on my October 27th Jupiter.

Mined BTC8 and counting....

Spent $7000 when BTC/USD was $120 = BTC58

So another BTC50 to go...

Even in fiat terms its unlikely to ROI unless BTC hits $400+
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November 09, 2013, 06:52:35 AM
 #20393

Whats with all these people buying November Jupiters, I hope you are not buying with btc.

Yes definitely do not sell your BTC at $370 to buy a $5000 Jupiter or two. TERRIBLE IDEA O:)
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November 09, 2013, 06:56:41 AM
 #20394

Whats with all these people buying November Jupiters, I hope you are not buying with btc.

isnt it the same thing? if i pay 14 btc for a jupiter now its same thing as ~4699 dollars.
buying with whatever currency at this point is the same because theyre worth the same right now.

if i've helped you, donations welcome: 1BwGnrqSjbfJ39mTNrvb257eUSuUP7Pfxh
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November 09, 2013, 07:28:50 AM
 #20395


Nice calculator, haven't seen that before. Thank you for the link!

Bitcointalk member since 2013! Smiley
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November 09, 2013, 08:50:30 AM
 #20396

Whats with all these people buying November Jupiters, I hope you are not buying with btc.

Greed. People see some mad rise in the price of something, then they jump on there hoping the same will happen to them.
Common sense and a look at the past 6 months prices would tell you that the price trebled and it's unlikely to stay there.
We all hope it does, or rises more even. To ganble it would be sensible to know WHY the price rose, and estimate when a large number of people might bail and cash their profits in.

Buying a rig now, just before 2 major producers are likely to ship and a few months before KNC are due to release gen 2, to me looks fucking insane. Look at the effect of the 1st KNC batch...for a few weeks we've got a respite from the other producers and KNC then a shitstorm of high powered rigs will make this last diff increase cycle look like a ripple. Then all you need to add to your hurt pie is a correction in BTC price and you couldn't have done a dafter thing...and it will all have been led by greed imagining great profits.

Personally I'm hoping the BTC price stays somewhere close to 250, and that will save my late delivered rig from making a loss which looked very likely...maybe. Without this rise in BTC where would we all be now as far as wanting to order another rig, or breaking even? Screwed is where.

The main difference between attitudes to KNC here (Pheonix and me for example) is that some got their rig on time as promised, and others didn't and suffered a large rise in difficulty as a result as well as losing hashing time. Promises were broken, 15th Oct came and went despite them LYING about being on track, delivering stuff they weren't, altering the status etc. We all knew the possible risks and production problems they may face, we accepted those when we ordered.  We  also accepted that we'd probably have to update firmwaRE ETC. If you don't have a machine and are told wither lies or not told anything at all. (I have practically heard nothing from KNC directly in all this tiime. ..no updates, almost all info I got came from here ..so I wonder how customers who aren't on this forum managed? KNC aren't big on communication are they after all? ).

I find all this "we're busy" stuff pathetic. KNC sshould have planned and made sure they had enough manpower from the get-go like any other company has to. It's basic. Not having time to post on their own forum? I'd laugh if that weren't such a sad excuse. If YOU ran this company do you think you couldn't spare an hour a day, or hire a person to cover thee role of web support over FB twitter and forums? They can spare people to travel the world promoting that fucking documentary after all. Those people seem to have had an unrealistic delivery of an on schedule rig too which makes that film pointless and fake. In the real world on bitcoin they'd'be a very skinny couple now, having gone without money waiting for delivery for 2 weeks at least.

Good luck if you buy a Nov rig now, hopefully the price will save you. Personally I think a fool and his money are soon parted like granny used to say. IF you must take that risk, I hope waiting for gen2 wins out as far as risk is concerned and you give yoursrelf a getter chance.

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.Akoin













.ONE AFRICA. ONE KOIN..

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November 09, 2013, 09:55:58 AM
 #20397

KnC's gen 2 in March? As opposed to a more than half Gh in a few weeks?

AFTER the stragglers have finished delivering half a dozen Ph? As opposed to more than... in a few weeks?
 
maybe...



Next gen will have to be cheaper and waaay faster.. ..or it's not going to be worth having one. It will be interesting to see what they come up  with. They must know what the target is now, but telling us would kill any orders in Nov maybe? IF theey do manage a gen 2 worth buying, it will sell like hotcakes and murder thee ROI of anything currently hashing.

With so many variables to consider that is why honesty from manufacturers is crucial, on delivery especially. You can't expect to track them aall, but the one that you are paying money to you should be fully informed about.

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.Akoin













.ONE AFRICA. ONE KOIN..

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November 09, 2013, 10:38:47 AM
Last edit: November 09, 2013, 01:47:53 PM by Searing
 #20398

KnC's gen 2 in March? As opposed to a more than half Gh in a few weeks?

AFTER the stragglers have finished delivering half a dozen Ph? As opposed to more than... in a few weeks?
 
maybe...



Next gen will have to be cheaper and waaay faster.. ..or it's not going to be worth having one. It will be interesting to see what they come up  with. They must know what the target is now, but telling us would kill any orders in Nov maybe? IF theey do manage a gen 2 worth buying, it will sell like hotcakes and murder thee ROI of anything currently hashing.

With so many variables to consider that is why honesty from manufacturers is crucial, on delivery especially. You can't expect to track them aall, but the one that you are paying money to you should be fully informed about.

you know to be truthful I wonder if they even know what they are gonna shoot for PH and price wise...I mean it is soooooo nuts that it is looking like a 2th machine by cointerra in feb at this price is insane (by the by cointerra did just announce on their page a successful tapeout)
 

http://cointerra.com/product/terraminer-iv-2ths-networked-asic-miner-february-batch/

2TH at $5999.00 w/o shipping? FEB order>Huh?  what is that like what a Jupiter would have mined 1 month ago..sure you MIGHT make ROI but I mean really 6K for FEB? at 2TH?



http://cointerra.com/product/terraminer-iv-2ths-networked-asic-miner-february-batch/


anyway I think it very likely that KNC is getting a massive headache just trying to 'guess" what to offer for what price in the future...in this ASIC arms race...I bet they are as befuddled as the rest of us on how to play this out for FEB/MARCH price and GH wise

anyway my 2c worth
Searing

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November 09, 2013, 10:53:19 AM
 #20399

Next gen will have to be cheaper and waaay faster.. .

Its not going to be cheaper for them to produce (per GH), but thats not needed yet either. Bulk silicon cost for 28nm asics <100mm² is ~$7-8 (multiply x4 for 4 dies per chip and a few dollar for packaging). Marginal production cost of a 20nm wafer is likely 2-3x higher, so even per GH, its probably roughly the same, perhaps even more expensive. But at those prices, its easy to make it "waay faster" and still have stellar margins, by just including more or bigger chips.

Key issue IMO is power efficiency.  Those finfet transistors appear to have great potential. If they could double power efficiency (compared to undervolted 28nm chips), it may be worth the NRE. Simply put, with half the electricity consumption per GH, the network tolerates twice as many GH mining at marginal profitability.
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November 09, 2013, 11:02:06 AM
 #20400

KnC's gen 2 in March? As opposed to a more than half Gh in a few weeks?

AFTER the stragglers have finished delivering half a dozen Ph? As opposed to more than... in a few weeks?
 
maybe...



Next gen will have to be cheaper and waaay faster.. ..or it's not going to be worth having one. It will be interesting to see what they come up  with. They must know what the target is now, but telling us would kill any orders in Nov maybe? IF theey do manage a gen 2 worth buying, it will sell like hotcakes and murder thee ROI of anything currently hashing.

With so many variables to consider that is why honesty from manufacturers is crucial, on delivery especially. You can't expect to track them aall, but the one that you are paying money to you should be fully informed about.

you know to be truthful I wonder if they even know what they are gonna shoot for PH and price wise...I mean it is soooooo nuts that it is looking like a 2ph machine by cointerra in feb at this price is insane (by the by cointerra did just announce on their page a successful tapeout)
 

http://cointerra.com/product/terraminer-iv-2ths-networked-asic-miner-february-batch/

2TH at $5999.00 w/o shipping? FEB order>Huh?  what is that like what a Jupiter would have mined 1 month ago..sure you MIGHT make ROI but I mean really 6K for FEB? at 2TH?



http://cointerra.com/product/terraminer-iv-2ths-networked-asic-miner-february-batch/


anyway I think it very likely that KNC is getting a massive headache just trying to 'guess" what to offer for what price in the future...in this ASIC arms race...I bet they are as befuddled as the rest of us on how to play this out for FEB/MARCH price and GH wise

anyway my 2c worth
Searing

This is a good point, how to predict the future of btc and hash rate.
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