Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Phoenix1969]

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns+shipping) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, including shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You  KNC

Now calculate how much fiat/BTC you would have if you would have simply purchased bitcoins directly instead of pre-ordering a miner that creates bitcoins very slowly.

That's not mining, that's called speculation investing.
although its similar in nature, because your gold is only worth what people will pay fir it...yeah..
Sure, BTC could have easily been ten bucks...
But facts are facts, and hindsight won't get you anywhere.
Do you think people who bought BFL products are turning their machines off?
Why?
BTC speculation, sure.
okay, now the question becomes .... btc generated * price sold for.. so I can see your point... this is a viscous circle...hehe

I guess my point is nobody's likely to loose out on their KNC investment.

[dwdoc]

responsibility of KNC was in taking unlimited amount from orders.

only limited amount of boxes during preorder is the way, how deliver positive ROI to investors.

When I purchased from them I don't remember them saying they were going to limit their sales to protect my ROI. What other company is doing that?

I don't want to join in this argument but to be honest, they kind of did...
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

"We are also aware that we need our customers to have a return on their devices in order to purchase form us again. With the scale of the supply chains, agreements and factories we have access to, we need to be cautious we don’t ship too many devices and therefore reduce the return to our customers."

But then they put this caveat in at the end:

We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network.

Seeing as "large" is a relative term, it means whatever KnC want it to mean; therefore the whole statement is meaningless. Releasing more devices might protect their customers total share of the network, but individual customers don't care about that of course, they only care about their own personal share of the network. Individual KnC customers are competing for a share of the network with other KnC customers as much as they are with miners using devices from other manufacturers.

The whole statement is spin designed to make them look like nice guys while they go ahead and maximize their profit, which is what you should expect them to do anyway.

Exactly correct.  Also that "network protection" statement was made on 7/18/13 (6 weeks after they started taking orders) so all the people with units in hand knew nothing about that.

[arousedrhino]

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns+shipping) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, including shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You  KNC

Now calculate how much fiat/BTC you would have if you would have simply purchased bitcoins directly instead of pre-ordering a miner that creates bitcoins very slowly.

Now tell me how to purchase 8K in BTC with a credit card? Any idea's?

Buying a miner with a credit card is a lot easier and more fun than just buying BTC. You might not make as much money as if you just bought BTC but who cares its an easy fun way to get BTC and support the network.

[AussieHash]

Now tell me how to purchase 8K in BTC with a credit card? Any idea's?

Buying a miner with a credit card is a lot easier and more fun than just buying BTC. You might not make as much money as if you just bought BTC but who cares its an easy fun way to get BTC and support the network.

Actually it is not difficult at all, despite the recent internal WU presentation in reddit

https://localbitcoins.com/buy-bitcoins-online/western-union/

You can buy $5000/day using money in minutes with your credit card

[rampalija]

Now tell me how to purchase 8K in BTC with a credit card? Any idea's?

Buying a miner with a credit card is a lot easier and more fun than just buying BTC. You might not make as much money as if you just bought BTC but who cares its an easy fun way to get BTC and support the network.

Actually it is not difficult at all, despite the recent internal WU presentation in reddit

https://localbitcoins.com/buy-bitcoins-online/western-union/

You can buy $5000/day using money in minutes with your credit card

support the network?!?! HAh thetre is no supporting there is only stealing a peace of pie of other ppl who mine BTC.

[JoelKatz]

Exactly correct.  Also that "network protection" statement was made on 7/18/13 (6 weeks after they started taking orders) so all the people with units in hand knew nothing about that.

No, that's not how it works. The network protection statement affected everyone's assessment of the value of their pre-orders and other people's pre-orders and it affected people's decision to buy them, sell them, request refunds, and so on. There may be people who have units in their hands today who made the decision to buy other people's pre-orders because of the network protection statement. Once you do something that change something's value, other people act based on that.

Everyone with a miner in hand made decisions knowing of the existence of that statement.

(This is a general principle. In this specific case, the network protection statement was weak and basically meaningless. I'm just pointing out that the timing argument is bogus.)

[rampalija]

Exactly correct.  Also that "network protection" statement was made on 7/18/13 (6 weeks after they started taking orders) so all the people with units in hand knew nothing about that.

No, that's not how it works. The network protection statement affected everyone's assessment of the value of their pre-orders and other people's pre-orders and it affected people's decision to buy them, sell them, request refunds, and so on. There may be people who have units in their hands today who made the decision to buy other people's pre-orders because of the network protection statement. Once you do something that change something's value, other people act based on that.

Everyone with a miner in hand made decisions knowing of the existence of that statement.

(This is a general principle. In this specific case, the network protection statement was weak and basically meaningless. I'm just pointing out that the timing argument is bogus.)

nice explanation! 

[arousedrhino]

Now tell me how to purchase 8K in BTC with a credit card? Any idea's?

Buying a miner with a credit card is a lot easier and more fun than just buying BTC. You might not make as much money as if you just bought BTC but who cares its an easy fun way to get BTC and support the network.

Actually it is not difficult at all, despite the recent internal WU presentation in reddit

https://localbitcoins.com/buy-bitcoins-online/western-union/

You can buy $5000/day using money in minutes with your credit card

support the network?!?! HAh thetre is no supporting there is only stealing a peace of pie of other ppl who mine BTC.

Thats the point, to distribute the networks as much as possible therefore you get a smaller share. Are you serious or just trolling? Can't tell.

[waterboi92]

any jupiter owners running .98 notice that the hashrate is highest when you do a poweroff cycle and reboot, it will hit 565-575gh/s at the pool and then after running for a while the pool listed hash rate will get progressively lower, i dip at 490gh/s

any idea why this is?

This is exactly what happens to mine, maybe even lower, 470, 460... no idea why  

did you ever try 70-75C? after enablecores, on 0.98?

24 hours later.. my 3 sats are 850 at the pool on 12 hour average!
that's 283 each, which is exactly what they show on cgminer!

what are your temp readings? how are your fans/case set up? im thinking of following you, doing enable core, and rebooting and then putting case on upside down to raise the temps a bit and see if i still get a down slide in hashes over time with higher temps.

[edgar]

Exactly correct.  Also that "network protection" statement was made on 7/18/13 (6 weeks after they started taking orders) so all the people with units in hand knew nothing about that.

No, that's not how it works. The network protection statement affected everyone's assessment of the value of their pre-orders and other people's pre-orders and it affected people's decision to buy them, sell them, request refunds, and so on. There may be people who have units in their hands today who made the decision to buy other people's pre-orders because of the network protection statement. Once you do something that change something's value, other people act based on that.

Everyone with a miner in hand made decisions knowing of the existence of that statement.

(This is a general principle. In this specific case, the network protection statement was weak and basically meaningless. I'm just pointing out that the timing argument is bogus.)

+Yea!


Also, My HR lowers at night, when the chips are around 10C cooler.

[Phoenix1969]

any jupiter owners running .98 notice that the hashrate is highest when you do a poweroff cycle and reboot, it will hit 565-575gh/s at the pool and then after running for a while the pool listed hash rate will get progressively lower, i dip at 490gh/s

any idea why this is?

This is exactly what happens to mine, maybe even lower, 470, 460... no idea why  

did you ever try 70-75C? after enablecores, on 0.98?

24 hours later.. my 3 sats are 850 at the pool on 12 hour average!
that's 283 each, which is exactly what they show on cgminer!

what are your temp readings? how are your fans/case set up? im thinking of following you, doing enable core, and rebooting and then putting case on upside down to raise the temps a bit and see if i still get a down slide in hashes over time with higher temps.

at the moment, all 6 boards(3 sats) are between 69-73C, no case fans whatsoever, heatsink fans only. cases off, stacked, with cardboard partially blocking the fans airflow into the heatsink, like this...

All running 0.98 with enablecores over top
this is for night-time basically, because it gets downright chilly in here.
During the day, I can remove the cardboard, and they stay around 70
Ive tried several times to leave them off... but if they drop below those
temps by more than about 5 degrees, I see a drop in my rates, and can
see one one miner loose about 6 cores, and another loose two...
then they take forever to come back, like 6-8 hours!
I have one miner that is super-rock solid, one a tad finicky,
and one super-sensitive finicky, don't breathe near me kind
Also, It may just be my imagination, but they seem to work better
while its raining outside(high humidity)

[uininPeter]

Do you think people who bought BFL products are turning their machines off?

No. With increased difficulty, when BFL products are not profitable anymore, these still can be used as room heaters for those who need it

[FUKT]

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, plus shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You  KNC

Are you also selling your BTC for fiat? If not, to get a completely honest answer you should be doing your calcs in what you would have paid in BTC when you ordered. BTC has appreciated significantly against the USD since you would have ordered.

I paid in Fiat, so that's as "honest" as it gets...
I even used the xbt price, when I can still sell @ Gox!
So, stick that in your pipe, and smoke it!      
I actually plan on holding my BTC for $2,000.00/btc   hehe
But yeah... I see what you're gettin' at...

Just another parasite in it for the profit.

[Phoenix1969]

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, plus shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You  KNC

Are you also selling your BTC for fiat? If not, to get a completely honest answer you should be doing your calcs in what you would have paid in BTC when you ordered. BTC has appreciated significantly against the USD since you would have ordered.

I paid in Fiat, so that's as "honest" as it gets...
I even used the xbt price, when I can still sell @ Gox!
So, stick that in your pipe, and smoke it!      
I actually plan on holding my BTC for $2,000.00/btc   hehe
But yeah... I see what you're gettin' at...

Just another parasite in it for the profit.

Oh, so you just spend thousands for fun, or just to chip in...
gimme a break.... 

[Puppet]

at the moment, all 6 boards(3 sats) are between 69-73C, no case fans whatsoever, heatsink fans only. cases off, stacked, with cardboard partially blocking the fans airflow into the heatsink, like this...

I have to say thats pretty hilarious and intriguing. WHile everyone is trying their damnest to keep miners cool, KnC owners are disabling and blocking fans.
This thread is too long to keep up with, so sorry if this has been asked or answered before, but 3 questions spring to mind

1) has anyone tried testing if its the asic or the VRMs that cause it run better at higher temps? See, I might understand it if its the VRMs, I dont understand it if its the asic.
2) has anyone figured out a way to read clockspeeds, and if so, does the warmer asic run at higher clockspeeds?
3) has KnC commented on this weird phenomena?

[opentoe]

I spoke to soon. My fathers Saturn, which has been running great since we got it displays this on the cgminer output screen sometimes.

013-11-02 09:28:09] KnC: core 0-34 was disabled due to 10 HW errors in a row
 [2013-11-02 09:28:14] KnC: core 4-166 was disabled due to 10 HW errors in a row

Is there a particular cause of this and is it something that can be fixed? I have ran enabledallcores and using .98 firmware. Just sub-standard hardware?

[Searing]

Do you think people who bought BFL products are turning their machines off?

No. With increased difficulty, when BFL products are not profitable anymore, these still can be used as room heaters for those who need it

I was "forced" to upgrade to their next product monarchs.ie or my current stuff is "bricks" but the jally I did keep I got on Halloween and it will make more in PPcoin then BTC according to www.dustcoin.com or so it was a few days ago

the best plan I can see for making money on BTC is to "announce a product" get the money..and don't ship it till way way late if ever....BFL has more money then god and no operating expenses due to never buying parts in mass or shipping products......brilliant in an evil genius type of way

so yeah I'll mine the jally on something at 35watts...I can speculate in imaginary gains on alt coins for a long long time (denial its a bitch)

and I had my KNC Jupiter shipped on oct 15th got it oct 18th and just to be contrary...I DON'T expect to make ROI with the other stuff coming out from cointerra etc

main reason is BFL has at least as much stuff to ship still outstanding from what they have shipped before April onward from the bitcoin boom in april..imho they have as much or more....so that with KNC's 2nd batch is pretty much gonna drive a spike thru the heart of mining by Jan imho

so mentally I'm treating this as a bobsled run ..the speed was nice..and I made good time but the crash is going to be spectacular....ie....anyone asks its a "hobby" ....not a business (i'll LIE....denial .after BFL all I have left....don't ya know)

but NO new mining equip for me....not till next summer the way it looks like equip wise imho if ever...and if BTC was to crash to 1/2 of todays value...well....I'm not gonna think about that will scare my little self....

my 2c worth
Searing

[dacman61]

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, plus shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You  KNC

Are you also selling your BTC for fiat? If not, to get a completely honest answer you should be doing your calcs in what you would have paid in BTC when you ordered. BTC has appreciated significantly against the USD since you would have ordered.

I paid in Fiat, so that's as "honest" as it gets...
I even used the xbt price, when I can still sell @ Gox!
So, stick that in your pipe, and smoke it!      
I actually plan on holding my BTC for $2,000.00/btc   hehe
But yeah... I see what you're gettin' at...

Just another parasite in it for the profit.

Damn straight I'm in it for profit! Why should I waste my time and energy making sure these two Jupiter's I have are running in tip top shape so I can get the most in my return. I've mined a good bit of BTC since Oct 8th and 11th when I received my two miners and I'm more than halfway to ROI. Why do anything in life if you get some sort of satisfaction or pleasure in doing something? Building wealth is one thing that brings me these things... Also added stress with the high volatility and risk in the BTC ecosystem.

[jelin1984]

what exactly do and is these safe the unofficial version
0.98.1
?

[CTPA]

I know that KNC team is working hard to deliver the best product, but confronting the facts, I must say I am a little disappointed.

The Jupiter miner I received was running at 280 Ghash/s on firmware v0.95. That became a 0 Ghash/s miner after upgrading firmware to 0.97... Firmware revision v0.98 brought my miner back to life, but I now have poor performance.

Back in late september when I was considering asking for a refund, I was lead to think that I was going to receive on the 15th of October a 550Ghash/s miner with less than 1W/(Ghash/s) electric consumption.

What I got on the 29th of October was a 400 ghash/s Jupiter, consuming 535 Watts (1.35W/(Gh/s)).

I have ~15BTC of lost income due to late delivery and since delivery 25% lost of income per day (@todays diff~0.18BTC) due to lack of performance
And with this you add bad life time due to poor efficiency (Ghash/J).... lets say I too am a little screwed up.

I emailed them on those matter, and even if they are kindly looking on my technical problems, they choose not to answer or missed the real issue...