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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3039465 times)
ElGabo
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November 10, 2013, 07:39:49 PM
 #20581

For the Psu-s

I have a question. If you have a machine what eats about 700w and you have a 850w Psu, what will you do if somhow we can overclock them and need some margin?

I have a 1500w psu and a lot of big fans to answer this.

But it's only a theory......

A 850W quality PSU will most probably be enough even for some overclocking if possible, granted a Jupiter uses less than 600W DC power.

And you'll have a psu at 100% load.

Personally I don't like it. (It's my fault)


For a KNC Jupiter it could well end up drawing 750 Watts (perhaps a bit more) -- I would recommend a 1000 Watt supply as the minimum.

It would be better with a 1200 Watt capable supply. (Safety margin)


My first idea was 1200W too...

But there was only a little pirce difference between 1200 or 1500W so margin upon margin. Just for sure. (My simple logic: a bit too much is better than a bit less)

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November 10, 2013, 07:42:30 PM
 #20582


For a KNC Jupiter it could well end up drawing 750 Watts (perhaps a bit more) -- I would recommend a 1000 Watt supply as the minimum.

It would be better with a 1200 Watt capable supply. (Safety margin)

Most engineers like lots of safety margin. In this case the extra cost is cheap insurance.

You think KNC engineers have made the wrong recommendations with 850W PSU?
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November 10, 2013, 07:45:21 PM
Last edit: November 10, 2013, 07:57:32 PM by DeathAndTaxes
 #20583

For the Psu-s

I have a question. If you have a machine what eats about 700w and you have a 850w Psu, what will you do if somhow we can overclock them and need some margin?

I have a 1500w psu and a lot of big fans to answer this.

But it's only a theory......

A 850W quality PSU will most probably be enough even for some overclocking if possible, granted a Jupiter uses less than 600W DC power.

And you'll have a psu at 100% load.

Personally I don't like it. (It's my fault)


PSU are rated on DC load not AC.  With efficiency around 90% 850W DC would be like 935W AC at the wall.  Nobody anywhere has reported power usage anywhere close to that.   You can only push so much power into the unit.  The chip can only handle so much current, and even if it could use more the DC regulators have a finite capacity (4 @ 40A ea per board). 

To push the clocks higher you need more power you don't need 100% to 200% additional power.  It is like saying I can push 1,000 into a GPU and make it go faster
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November 10, 2013, 07:50:49 PM
 #20584


For a KNC Jupiter it could well end up drawing 750 Watts (perhaps a bit more) -- I would recommend a 1000 Watt supply as the minimum.

It would be better with a 1200 Watt capable supply. (Safety margin)

Most engineers like lots of safety margin. In this case the extra cost is cheap insurance.

You think KNC engineers have made the wrong recommendations with 850W PSU?


KNC makes this recommendation:
What specs do I need for the powersupply?
- A power supply (PSU) certified as 80+ Gold (high quality power with low variations).
- for Jupiter models, an 850 Watt PSU with a minimum of four separate PCI-E adaptors (6 pins or 6+2 pin).
- for Saturn models,a 600 Watt PSU with a minimum of two separate PCI-E adaptors (6 pins or 6+2 pins).
- for Mercury models, a 400 Watt PSU with a minimum of one PCI-E adaptor (6 pins or 6+2 pins).


However, as some pointed out the new firmware is causing some units to draw more current (power).

You pays your money -- you takes your choice.

It's your money sunk into those miners -- not mine.

I think that some have pointed out their Saturns are running close to 360-380 Watts -- a Jupiter has two more towers.

Some of us own voltmeters and know how to use them -- so our opinions may be biased by the readings. Wink

Cheers!


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November 10, 2013, 08:11:07 PM
 #20585


For a KNC Jupiter it could well end up drawing 750 Watts (perhaps a bit more) -- I would recommend a 1000 Watt supply as the minimum.

It would be better with a 1200 Watt capable supply. (Safety margin)

Most engineers like lots of safety margin. In this case the extra cost is cheap insurance.

You think KNC engineers have made the wrong recommendations with 850W PSU?


KNC makes this recommendation:
What specs do I need for the powersupply?
- A power supply (PSU) certified as 80+ Gold (high quality power with low variations).
- for Jupiter models, an 850 Watt PSU with a minimum of four separate PCI-E adaptors (6 pins or 6+2 pin).
- for Saturn models,a 600 Watt PSU with a minimum of two separate PCI-E adaptors (6 pins or 6+2 pins).
- for Mercury models, a 400 Watt PSU with a minimum of one PCI-E adaptor (6 pins or 6+2 pins).


However, as some pointed out the new firmware is causing some units to draw more current (power).

You pays your money -- you takes your choice.

It's your money sunk into those miners -- not mine.

I think that some have pointed out their Saturns are running close to 360-380 Watts -- a Jupiter has two more towers.

Some of us own voltmeters and know how to use them -- so our opinions may be biased by the readings. Wink

Cheers!



Yes but the initial firmware was drawing around 550 watts at the wall, so you have an entire 300 watts grace. I've also seen those 850s comfortably pull 1000W recently, though I doubt they do so long term! Wink

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November 10, 2013, 08:13:16 PM
 #20586



Yes but the initial firmware was drawing around 550 watts at the wall, so you have an entire 300 watts grace. Wink
[/quote]

Fair enough.

What does this version .98.1 cause the unit to draw?

Have you measured or are you guessing? That's all I want to know.

Edit: Another point -- the large units have more capacity (pun intended) to handle "dropouts" of a part cycle. The more expensive higher capacity units also tend to have better characteristics for filtering out spikes.

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November 10, 2013, 08:56:30 PM
 #20587

Jebus we've had this PSU discussion at least twice before. Just buy the PSU that you want that has at least the minimum spec the manufactrer recommends. Personally I run mine off a 1500W Silverstone connected to a 2200W UPS. But that's what I just had lying around after my CM 850V died.

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November 10, 2013, 08:57:40 PM
 #20588



Yes but the initial firmware was drawing around 550 watts at the wall, so you have an entire 300 watts grace. Wink

Fair enough.

What does this version .98.1 cause the unit to draw?

Have you measured or are you guessing? That's all I want to know.

Edit: Another point -- the large units have more capacity (pun intended) to handle "dropouts" of a part cycle. The more expensive higher capacity units also tend to have better characteristics for filtering out spikes.

[/quote]

I am drawing almost 700w with 0.981
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November 10, 2013, 11:04:38 PM
 #20589



Yes but the initial firmware was drawing around 550 watts at the wall, so you have an entire 300 watts grace. Wink

Fair enough.

What does this version .98.1 cause the unit to draw?

Have you measured or are you guessing? That's all I want to know.

Edit: Another point -- the large units have more capacity (pun intended) to handle "dropouts" of a part cycle. The more expensive higher capacity units also tend to have better characteristics for filtering out spikes.


I am drawing almost 700w with 0.981
[/quote]

Thank you for that info.

In which case a 1000W or better power supply is a better choice. That means that 30% of the capacity is your safety factor.

My opinion is that a 100 Watt safety factor is a bit light.

Again -- your choice people you own the equipment -- not me.



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November 10, 2013, 11:08:13 PM
 #20590

700W AC is 630W DC.  Power supplies are rating on DC load.  630W load on 850W supply is <80%.
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November 10, 2013, 11:36:45 PM
 #20591

haveing few 100s wats spare cant do harm ro you power price. Besacuse miner only uses how much it needs

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November 10, 2013, 11:38:50 PM
 #20592

haveing few 100s wats spare cant do harm ro you power price. Besacuse miner only uses how much it needs

Really?
So then I buy 100W PSU and save electricity  Cheesy
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November 10, 2013, 11:45:29 PM
 #20593

haveing few 100s wats spare cant do harm ro you power price. Besacuse miner only uses how much it needs

Really?
So then I buy 100W PSU and save electricity  Cheesy

Exactly -- I did not know there were so many electrical engineers and computer designers in the crowd...  Roll Eyes Cry

I'm glad I did not work for any of the people wanting to cut corners.... Oh wait -- that's why I don't work as an employee now... Too any experts without the knowledge...

$85 and up for a 800 Watt supply here...
$120 and up for a 1000 Watt supply.

Cheap insurance for a $6000 machine (OK $4500 to $5000 now)...

Happy costs savings folks... Pay your money -- take your choice.

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November 10, 2013, 11:47:08 PM
Last edit: November 11, 2013, 12:00:07 AM by davewr2013
 #20594

Jebus we've had this PSU discussion at least twice before. Just buy the PSU that you want that has at least the minimum spec the manufactrer recommends. Personally I run mine off a 1500W Silverstone connected to a 2200W UPS. But that's what I just had lying around after my CM 850V died.

A lot of people still come to the thread and start at the end...

Reading 100+ pages of mostly drivel would try the patience of a saint. Shocked

Edit: Aside from that -- sound advice.

Edit 2: Pardon me -- 1000+ pages of mostly drivel... Angry

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November 11, 2013, 12:04:36 AM
 #20595

There is no restrcitions on how many PSU you can use with a single miner as long as it is more than 1  Cheesy

Be careful with that.  I've heard stories where ppl had that kind of configuration, and somehow turned one PS off while the other was still on.

The PS that was in the off state decided to short the +12V rail to ground, and Bad Things happened.  The magic smoke got let out of some wires and traces and other things.

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November 11, 2013, 12:44:22 AM
 #20596

Jebus we've had this PSU discussion at least twice before. Just buy the PSU that you want that has at least the minimum spec the manufactrer recommends. Personally I run mine off a 1500W Silverstone connected to a 2200W UPS. But that's what I just had lying around after my CM 850V died.

A lot of people still come to the thread and start at the end...

Reading 100+ pages of mostly drivel would try the patience of a saint. Shocked


LOL

There is also a search box, pop PSU in there while in the thread and its amazing what comes back.

Of course its no issue people not wanting to read the thread, but then it goes on and on rehashing the same old arguments and the thread gets full of crap.

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November 11, 2013, 02:27:51 AM
 #20597

Jebus we've had this PSU discussion at least twice before. Just buy the PSU that you want that has at least the minimum spec the manufactrer recommends. Personally I run mine off a 1500W Silverstone connected to a 2200W UPS. But that's what I just had lying around after my CM 850V died.

A lot of people still come to the thread and start at the end...

Reading 100+ pages of mostly drivel would try the patience of a saint. Shocked


LOL

There is also a search box, pop PSU in there while in the thread and its amazing what comes back.

Of course its no issue people not wanting to read the thread, but then it goes on and on rehashing the same old arguments and the thread gets full of crap.

Well yes -- I do know about the search box....

But as for wanting to read 27 pages to direct someone to a post that is not composed mostly of predigested cattle feed is a chore in itself... Then as the firmware advances and things change material becomes out of date -- like the current power/current draw on the units.

I have followed this thread on and off since the first post -- followed the moaning and the threats.... some entertaining -- most not worth the electrons used to compose the posts. Unfortunately there is useful information that is worth gleaning -- but it's like picking fly dung out of pepper.

Almost every discussion topic in the thread has been polluted with junk -- some well meaning -- too much just pointless. Roll Eyes

Anyway -- maybe people can clean up their act and stick to useful stuff -- but I won't bet the farm on it.


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November 11, 2013, 02:31:20 AM
 #20598

700W AC is 630W DC.  Power supplies are rating on DC load.  630W load on 850W supply is <80%.

Maybe you could take us unenlightened souls through how you come up with these numbers. Perhaps even, you could point out whether Power Factor comes into play in this calculation.

Just askin'

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November 11, 2013, 02:31:40 AM
 #20599

When the diff had go to 510

At 6 of November 2013 or at 5 November 2013
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November 11, 2013, 02:41:28 AM
 #20600

700W AC is 630W DC.  Power supplies are rating on DC load.  630W load on 850W supply is <80%.

Maybe you could take us unenlightened souls through how you come up with these numbers. Perhaps even you could point out whether Power Factor comes into play in this calculation.

Just askin'

Well measured AC Wattage will already take into account power factor.  If someone is measuring Volts and Amps it needs to be adjusted for the PF but the PF of modern switching supplies is generally pretty good (0.99).

The difference between AC Wattage and DC Wattage is simply the efficiency of the unit and for modern 80-Plus Gold PSU 90% is a good estimate (of course if you know the exact model you can look up the curve).

So 630W DC load will draw 630/0.9 = 700W AC.
The power supply converts 700W of AC electrical energy into 630W of DC electrical energy and 70W of thermal energy (heat.

Simple version is power supplies are rated by their output.  The output is always going to be lower than the input as no power supply is 100% efficient.
Output = Efficiency * Input
Input = Output / Efficiency
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