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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3013011 times)
Phoenix1969
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November 11, 2013, 09:05:34 AM
 #20641

Hey O'rama!

They should make a firmware which doesn't care about watts and other bitching.....

Just run as fast as possible (maybe if it needs proper cooling). I think lots of us can do proper cooling and don't care this time about watts, just the hash power.

And yes, apply this FW for your own risk....

Just an idea....
A HUGE +1


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markm
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November 11, 2013, 09:06:37 AM
 #20642

There is still no sign of a fix for the out of memory condition killing cgminer. I wouldn't be pleased to have a nice shiny new november order Jupiter dying periodically for such a simple well known reason, losing hours sitting there waiting for me to wake up and notice because they neglected to include a watchdog to keep the thing running and/or neglected to ensure their software fit into the amount of RAM they saw fit to build into the unit...

-MarkM-

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Phoenix1969
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November 11, 2013, 09:11:22 AM
 #20643

Right on TexasBrat... I hear where you are comin' from...
learning curve...  

To all...
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND Single 12v Rail  PSU's Only.
As an example, I powered Two hashing boards alone
on a CB700 watt ATX-PSU that over-heated in less than 5 minutes!
Totally fried, non functional.
**The unit was/is equipped with three separate 12v rails.
The online spec sheet said 150 watt max per pci plug, I never knew it.
A single 12v rail is much safer, no matter what the rating.
This was my Friend's PSU out of his computer which I "Borrowed", without asking...
while he's on vacation!...  oops! I did call him and tell him about it, although I have one being delivered tomorrow, and should be all fixed before he returns...lol


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Phoenix1969
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November 11, 2013, 09:38:16 AM
 #20644

There is still no sign of a fix for the out of memory condition killing cgminer. I wouldn't be pleased to have a nice shiny new november order Jupiter dying periodically for such a simple well known reason, losing hours sitting there waiting for me to wake up and notice because they neglected to include a watchdog to keep the thing running and/or neglected to ensure their software fit into the amount of RAM they saw fit to build into the unit...

-MarkM-

I believe the issue there is/was while using Bertmod, the ram is otherwise sufficient.
It has 512MB of DDR3
You have something else going on?


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Crypto_Cumbrian
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November 11, 2013, 10:20:37 AM
 #20645

Right on TexasBrat... I hear where you are comin' from...
learning curve...  

To all...
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND Single 12v Rail  PSU's Only.
As an example, I powered Two hashing boards alone
on a CB700 watt ATX-PSU that over-heated in less than 5 minutes!
Totally fried, non functional.
**The unit was/is equipped with three separate 12v rails.
The online spec sheet said 150 watt max per pci plug, I never knew it.
A single 12v rail is much safer, no matter what the rating.
This was my Friend's PSU out of his computer which I "Borrowed", without asking...
while he's on vacation!...  oops! I did call him and tell him about it, although I have one being delivered tomorrow, and should be all fixed before he returns...lol


I agree, not all PSU are created equal.

I have a 850W AKASA Cobra 82% Efficient (so it says on the box) Single 12V Rail.

I am pulling 748W from the Wall for my Jupiter (0.98.1)
smooth
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November 11, 2013, 10:25:25 AM
 #20646

This is where the "aim for 50% load" rule of thumb came from and while it was good advice at one time, its day has past.

Yes I agree 50% might be extreme, but aiming for lower load rather than higher is still advantageous.

Take another look at that chart in the review above. Dropping from 80% to 60% the fan speed goes from 1500 to 800 rpm. That's a big difference in noise, fan wear, and vulnerability to PSU overheating.

The power savings from using platinum-rated PSUs and 240V is incremental on top of loading issues.

Don't spend unlimited money on this but err on the side of bigger.
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November 11, 2013, 10:39:38 AM
 #20647

There is still no sign of a fix for the out of memory condition killing cgminer. I wouldn't be pleased to have a nice shiny new november order Jupiter dying periodically for such a simple well known reason, losing hours sitting there waiting for me to wake up and notice because they neglected to include a watchdog to keep the thing running and/or neglected to ensure their software fit into the amount of RAM they saw fit to build into the unit...

-MarkM-

I believe the issue there is/was while using Bertmod, the ram is otherwise sufficient.
It has 512MB of DDR3
You have something else going on?

I have never used bertmod.

I have a stock Saturn running stock firmwares, currently 0.98 I think.

I do not know for sure but it seems possible that the problem might not have started until they put a real cgminer from ckolivas instead of their own version.

I do not know though, I just vaguely have impression that at first it went many days but lately I am lucky to get a day or two out of it without it dying, and sometimes it dies within hours of a restart.

-MarkM-

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November 11, 2013, 10:41:29 AM
 #20648



Umm, that's cool, but I can assure you not that's clearly not he case on all units. I have pictures of the one I took to Atlanta using a Kill-A-Watt, and there were enough witnesses that were present, including members of this forum (Bargraphics, Phin Gage), and representatives from competing companies that saw this for their own eyes. Also there's plenty in this thread amongst the first recipients to verify otherwise.

And I'd be willing to bet a few satoshi's that the unit you took to Atlanta did not have the same firmware as those units that were subsequently shipped out to Day 1 customers onwards...and that the voltage was tweaked upwards in the interim thus increasing the power requirements (in the name of increasing performance/stability, I'm sure).  Couple the fact that the actual physical design of the product was changed quite substantially (8 VRMs to 4 VRMs) and it's not exactly apples-to-apples Smiley

So basically all you can say is that a few machines that you know of pulled high watts, you don't know how many right?

I'd guess that, relative to the entire Day1/Day2/October production run its probably just a few isolated units caused by manufacturing and/or production tolerances.

I don't know for sure, thats why I am saying "I guess" but at least I'm not making out like it was a huge problem for everyone. Plus it was like Day 1 units, almost prototypes in a way, cutting-edge-get-it-before-anyone type stuff.

Surely the discussion is about now, people coming into the thread recently to find out what they need for the next batch.

I'm saying that all of the Day1/Day2 machines that were delivered with pre-.95 firmware pulled very high wattage..and in some cases that translated to hardware failures when coupled with PSU's like the Corsair HX850 that contributed to exploding capacitors.  Actually testing specific PSU's and making specific recommendations based on known-working models would have been better instead of leaving it to chance for customers to figure it out on their own.  I, myself, bought the same model as KnC's hosting but gave myself some extra margin with higher wattage rating so my machine was never running over-spec of the PSU at any time on any firmware (the VRMs themselves, well, that's another story).

I don't know how you think you can say that ALL of them had the same issue, especially with the variation in ability of the devices. e.g. My Jupiter is happiest running 0.96 with any variation of cgminer however its not happy running any firmware above that. I don't know why, I think its to do with it not liking what the newer firmware does to the voltage to try and stabilize machines with flakey cores.

But I firmly believe that my machine is probably in the minority, just as I believe that the ones you are talking about are a drop in the ocean compared to the number of non-problematic machines they have shifted that we just never hear about.

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November 11, 2013, 10:46:03 AM
 #20649

There is still no sign of a fix for the out of memory condition killing cgminer. I wouldn't be pleased to have a nice shiny new november order Jupiter dying periodically for such a simple well known reason, losing hours sitting there waiting for me to wake up and notice because they neglected to include a watchdog to keep the thing running and/or neglected to ensure their software fit into the amount of RAM they saw fit to build into the unit...

-MarkM-

I believe the issue there is/was while using Bertmod, the ram is otherwise sufficient.
It has 512MB of DDR3
You have something else going on?

I agree with Mark there is a memory leak somewhere, on some machines at least.

I've had the best luck with running cgminer 3.7.2 manually after killing the one that comes with the knc firmware, but even then after 3 days free memory has dropped 100MB, from 250MB down to 150MB free, I haven't had it drop so low that it stops mining like Mark has, but I've seen it drop down to the 12MB free mark before I rebooted.

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November 11, 2013, 10:58:20 AM
 #20650

Hey O'rama!

They should make a firmware which doesn't care about watts and other bitching.....

Just run as fast as possible (maybe if it needs proper cooling). I think lots of us can do proper cooling and don't care this time about watts, just the hash power.

And yes, apply this FW for your own risk....

Just an idea....
A HUGE +1

+1
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November 11, 2013, 11:20:49 AM
 #20651

Hey O'rama!

They should make a firmware which doesn't care about watts and other bitching.....

Just run as fast as possible (maybe if it needs proper cooling). I think lots of us can do proper cooling and don't care this time about watts, just the hash power.

And yes, apply this FW for your own risk....

Just an idea....

+11111
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November 11, 2013, 11:40:59 AM
 #20652



Umm, that's cool, but I can assure you not that's clearly not he case on all units. I have pictures of the one I took to Atlanta using a Kill-A-Watt, and there were enough witnesses that were present, including members of this forum (Bargraphics, Phin Gage), and representatives from competing companies that saw this for their own eyes. Also there's plenty in this thread amongst the first recipients to verify otherwise.

And I'd be willing to bet a few satoshi's that the unit you took to Atlanta did not have the same firmware as those units that were subsequently shipped out to Day 1 customers onwards...and that the voltage was tweaked upwards in the interim thus increasing the power requirements (in the name of increasing performance/stability, I'm sure).  Couple the fact that the actual physical design of the product was changed quite substantially (8 VRMs to 4 VRMs) and it's not exactly apples-to-apples Smiley

No, you are wrong. It was a standard unit I made when at the manufacturing facility. By that point I had not seen my hotel for a week, and certainly no one had had anytime or were confident enough to tweak a unit. Literally decided on going. Booked a flight at 11pm, the night before, for an 11am take-off. Then searched for a hotel, made a device, drove several hours back to Stockholm, washed, packed and made my way to the airport. Thing is no way was a clocked machine risked that early. We had only seen the chips 5 days earlier and just had to have something that worked. Why if something performed well, would it not be given to customers. Austin and Beccy Craig from Life on Bitcoin have had it in their possession since that Atlanta conference. Can we please stop this 8/4 VRM nonsense. The additional 4 vrms were surplus to reaching spec. They were in place in the beginning in case they were needed to achieve the spec. They weren't so they aren't.

Well that is surprising given the results that later cropped up with overcurrent PSU's and exploding capacitors..do you have a link to those kill-a-watt photos from Atlanta?  I don't remember the values you saw there versus what was in the youtube video in Sweden.  And just to clarify..when I said "tweaked" I meant subsequent production machines, not the one you took to Atlanta.  In other words, my assumption was that the initial "beta" firmware or whatever you had then was running at say .8V and then when you guys decided on the production values for the boxes that were going to start shipping it was bumped to .9V for the added stability/speed benefits that brings.  I wasn't suggesting that you custom-tuned the Atlanta box.  But however it worked out in the order of events...there were definitely some growing pains in relation to power at the PSU and the power through the VRMs that had to be ironed out, as I know you are extremely familiar with Smiley

As for the 8/4 thing...well, you keep saying it didn't matter when the facts showed that it did.  There was a material difference in how those things ran before/after the change which had to be accounted for in new firmware.  Again, I don't think it was some malicious conspiracy or anything..but I do think it was a reckless change that was done without adequate testing which caused issues that had to be addressed further down the road.

Sure, as below, pretty sure I posted one of these before as I took a few for that reason. It was hard to balance the non-backlit LCD screen, with the bright Macbook Air Screen. This is with the Screen brightness turned down to it's lowest, so sorry there is two. Again there were a coupe of hundred people at the conference that witnessed the device's performance on the day.





So getting to the bottom of the 4/8 VRM thing, it was just brought up within an interview for a new engineer, which was cool as I have an answer from Marcus and it was definitely not a cost saving issue. The reason; KnC bought the entire world's supply from General Electric of those VRMs and could not get anymore without a month's wait, meaning a lot of people would have been without their kit if every board required them. They were indeed a margin and as you can see not necessary to reach the promised spec. GE could not supply more for any money, and there was actually a scary period where it was believed 8 may be necessary, in which case then there would have been a problem fulfilling all orders.

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November 11, 2013, 12:02:46 PM
 #20653


For a KNC Jupiter it could well end up drawing 750 Watts (perhaps a bit more) -- I would recommend a 1000 Watt supply as the minimum.

It would be better with a 1200 Watt capable supply. (Safety margin)

Most engineers like lots of safety margin. In this case the extra cost is cheap insurance.

You think KNC engineers have made the wrong recommendations with 850W PSU?


KNC makes this recommendation:
What specs do I need for the powersupply?
- A power supply (PSU) certified as 80+ Gold (high quality power with low variations).
- for Jupiter models, an 850 Watt PSU with a minimum of four separate PCI-E adaptors (6 pins or 6+2 pin).
- for Saturn models,a 600 Watt PSU with a minimum of two separate PCI-E adaptors (6 pins or 6+2 pins).
- for Mercury models, a 400 Watt PSU with a minimum of one PCI-E adaptor (6 pins or 6+2 pins).


However, as some pointed out the new firmware is causing some units to draw more current (power).

You pays your money -- you takes your choice.

It's your money sunk into those miners -- not mine.

I think that some have pointed out their Saturns are running close to 360-380 Watts -- a Jupiter has two more towers.

Some of us own voltmeters and know how to use them -- so our opinions may be biased by the readings. Wink

Cheers!



Yes but the initial firmware was drawing around 550 watts at the wall, so you have an entire 300 watts grace. I've also seen those 850s comfortably pull 1000W recently, though I doubt they do so long term! Wink

i'm sorry to correct you, but the initial firmware(0.90) was 890-910W--- 0.9V @ ~60A per VRM

Umm, that's cool, but I can assure you not that's clearly not he case on all units. I have pictures of the one I took to Atlanta using a Kill-A-Watt, and there were enough witnesses that were present, including members of this forum (Bargraphics, Phin Gage), and representatives from competing companies that saw this for their own eyes. Also there's plenty in this thread amongst the first recipients to verify otherwise.


So i will say it was the case on 80% of the units delivered between oct 3rd and oct 10th, my 2 jupiters + saturn pulled 2,2kW from the wall till they got fixed with 0.93


Quote
All

I have three firmware updates in this release,

For people wanting to go back to the original release of .90 it can be found here

www.kncminer.com/userfiles/file/kncminer-0.90.bin.

Note: This release uses more power and is only recommended if you are having issues with the later releases.
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November 11, 2013, 12:28:20 PM
 #20654

anyone thinking about refund ?

now they are sold out!
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November 11, 2013, 12:29:16 PM
 #20655



So i will say it was the case on 80% of the units delivered between oct 3rd and oct 10th, my 2 jupiters + saturn pulled 2,2kW from the wall till they got fixed with 0.93



Well I'd say 80% of the initial recipients posting on and/or around that time on the forum would disagree. The initial 8VRM boards didn't have that issue. The 4VRM modules did until the 0.95 fix apparently.

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November 11, 2013, 12:32:56 PM
 #20656

I'm getting really excited now! I must refresh this page about 10 times a day!!

O'rama, is it the end of this week, or beginning of next that shipping for November's batch begins?

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November 11, 2013, 12:33:05 PM
 #20657

Hey O'rama!

They should make a firmware which doesn't care about watts and other bitching.....

Just run as fast as possible (maybe if it needs proper cooling). I think lots of us can do proper cooling and don't care this time about watts, just the hash power.

And yes, apply this FW for your own risk....

Just an idea....

Yeah, but that would likely be a killer for the year long warranty given. Would be an RMA nghtmare bro...

By the way that "substandard cooling" you currently have is rated for 320 Watts;

http://www.arctic.ac/worldwide_en/products/cooling/cpu/freezer-30-co.html

It's way more than enough...

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November 11, 2013, 12:33:26 PM
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ok then it was 80% of the 4 VRM-users complaining, 8 VRM-users had nothing to complain about Wink

let's talk about other things, like upgrade modules, next gen units etc. ^^
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November 11, 2013, 12:37:11 PM
 #20659

Hey O'rama!

They should make a firmware which doesn't care about watts and other bitching.....

Just run as fast as possible (maybe if it needs proper cooling). I think lots of us can do proper cooling and don't care this time about watts, just the hash power.

And yes, apply this FW for your own risk....

Just an idea....

Yeah, but that would likely be a killer for the year long warranty given. Would be an RMA nghtmare bro...

By the way that "substandard cooling" you currently have is rated for 320 Watts;

http://www.arctic.ac/worldwide_en/products/cooling/cpu/freezer-30-co.html

It's way more than enough...

Is the heatspreader on the die soldered or is there only thermal grease between the HS and the dies?

btw the custom-solution with the aluminium bar is not really satisfying to bring enough pressure on the heatspreader without bending the pcb
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November 11, 2013, 12:55:11 PM
 #20660

Now that ckolivas has removed all the GPU and scrypt and such from cgminer, does cgminer take less RAM?

Might a firmware that uses that new cgminer possibly not run out of RAM?

Or is the RAM problem an actual memory leak in something therefore going to happen eventually no matter how small you make everything else?

-MarkM-

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