Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Wekkel]

It's 2014, who's still investing in gold? 

Central banks are 

[1714126283]

1714126283

[wachtwoord]

It's 2014, who's still investing in gold? 

Central banks are 

He said investing, not speculating

[User705]

Every time I see this thread and then watch BTC tank 10%+ in 2 or 3 days makes me laugh.
I have over 30oz of gold coins and would buy 30 more before I buy 5 BTC.
I question how many people here own 1/10th of that amount of BTC
Gold has been up $15 the last weeks.  And good ol bitcoin, tanking again, no surprises there.
But oh yah, it will be $1500 again by January.  
Thats a good one.
Maybe more like $150 per BTC there you experts.
LOLZ
People here make me

Nothing has changed about gold or BTC.  Buying BTC now likely entails an amount of short term risk.  Long term however it's hard to make a case for gold over crypto.  The current downtrend is simply the blow off from the last bubble coupled with the ASIC roll out.  BTC won't see an uptrend until we some some major ASIC manufactures go BK.

[cypherdoc]

here's your golden opportunity to buy Bitcoin.

[marcus_of_augustus]

here's your golden opportunity to buy Bitcoin.

It doesn't look like it to me, the market is now locked into a new long term downtrend ... by fair means or foul the banksters want cheap coinz ... and people seem to be willing to sell them ever lower. It appears to me to be some kind of algorithm that is designed to walk the market steadily lower, after each dump, new blocking sell walls spring up of a consistent size and interval above market to cap any bounce back rallies developing.

[oda.krell]

here's your golden opportunity to buy Bitcoin.

It doesn't look like it to me, the market is now locked into a new long term downtrend ... by fair means or foul the banksters want cheap coinz ... and people seem to be willing to sell them ever lower. It appears to me to be some kind of algorithm that is designed to walk the market steadily lower, after each dump, new blocking sell walls spring up of a consistent size and interval above market to cap any bounce back rallies developing.

[tinfoil time]

Sometimes I imagine I'm a billionaire / head of investment of a major bank / king of the Jewish space lizards.

I'm morally bankrupt, command fantastic wealth, and not so completely comfortable in my position that I cannot even see the potential of Bitcoin at least. And perhaps its danger to my position.

Here's what I most certainly wouldn't do: transition from fiat wealth to crypto wealth in the obvious way (by buying, on a public market). At least one perspective of what personal wealth is is that it is a 'ranking' among humans. Why would I take the risk of decreasing my own ranking by increasing that of early crypto adopters.

Here's what I would maybe do:

1) Try to destroy crypto

2) Try to get a decent piece of crypto without rocking the previous balance (see paragraph above).

How? Buy coins directly from miners, at market price, and at the same time, "invest" some of those newly bought coins to keep market price low.

The difference between 1) and 2) is whether you plan to end up with a net loss (but a long term success, because crypto is dead), or a net gain. The amount of coins sold publically vs. those held distinguishes 1) from 2).

Not an entirely new thought, I know. As others have pointed out, this can only work for so long before public interest overwhelms any such manipulations.

Perhaps. In fact, I think so too. But I am not entirely sure about. At the very least, the above scenario is on my list of crypto investment risk factors. Not at the top, perhaps, but it's on there.

[/tinfoil]

[NewLiberty]

here's your golden opportunity to buy Bitcoin.

Its well under half an ounce of gold.
Take advantage.

[justusranvier]

It doesn't look like it to me, the market is now locked into a new long term downtrend ... by fair means or foul the banksters want cheap coinz ... and people seem to be willing to sell them ever lower. It appears to me to be some kind of algorithm that is designed to walk the market steadily lower, after each dump, new blocking sell walls spring up of a consistent size and interval above market to cap any bounce back rallies developing.

Bitcoin needs a new Silk Road.

As long as price discovery takes place on the exchanges, instead of via supply and demand for commerce, the banksters can play their tricks very easily.

The only killer app for Bitcoin is to enable commerce that would otherwise impossible, and that means the black market.

Note that the black market doesn't imply violent or destructive - it can be as ordinary and benign as operating a lemonade stand without a permit from the city, or participating in a ride sharing service without a taxi license.

Bitcoin needs to give people access to things they can't have without it. A safe and pleasant drug buying experience was a great start, but it's time to think bigger now.

[Carlton Banks]

It doesn't look like it to me, the market is now locked into a new long term downtrend ... by fair means or foul the banksters want cheap coinz ... and people seem to be willing to sell them ever lower. It appears to me to be some kind of algorithm that is designed to walk the market steadily lower, after each dump, new blocking sell walls spring up of a consistent size and interval above market to cap any bounce back rallies developing.

Bitcoin needs a new Silk Road.

As long as price discovery takes place on the exchanges, instead of via supply and demand for commerce, the banksters can play their tricks very easily.

The only killer app for Bitcoin is to enable commerce that would otherwise impossible, and that means the black market.

Note that the black market doesn't imply violent or destructive - it can be as ordinary and benign as operating a lemonade stand without a permit from the city, or participating in a ride sharing service without a taxi license.

Bitcoin needs to give people access to things they can't have without it. A safe and pleasant drug buying experience was a great start, but it's time to think bigger now.

Agreed, I've been thinking about the same general principle. Black market price is believably genuine market value compared to captured institutions that are so vulnerable to coercion. It's truly possible that everywhere will be like living in Argentina before we see genuine price discovery.

And is there really ten's of thousands of coins available in those ask walls? Who's actually doing the selling, and are they just selling to themselves at 0% commision? We have no idea the level of price manipulation taking place at the exchanges. And there's no real way to find out; even if you were willing to spend millions eating the ask-side all the way up to $800, the depth would melt away whether it really exists or not. Reality and deciet produce identical outcomes.

[justusranvier]

And is there really ten's of thousands of coins available in those ask walls? Who's actually doing the selling, and are they just selling to themselves at 0% commision? We have no idea the level of price manipulation taking place at the exchanges. And there's no real way to find out; even if you were willing to spend millions eating the ask-side all the way up to $800, the depth would melt away whether it really exists or not. Reality and deciet produce identical outcomes.

Where are the coins being sold coming from? Do they even exist?

Are your bitcoins in your Coinbase or Circle really sitting idle in cold storage, or are they being used to short the market?

With the current design of exchanges and web wallets, it's impossible to know.

[Carlton Banks]

Are your bitcoins in your Coinbase or Circle really sitting idle in cold storage, or are they being used to short the market?

With the current design of exchanges and web wallets, it's impossible to know.

Don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm saying "This kind of market movement is impossible", that's certainly not the case. But at the moment, as Justus rightly points out, we're simply taking the "good" word of these people that these are real market forces playing out. And there's a more than plausible range of scenarios under which serious finagling could be taking place.

To put it another way, the idea that these exchanges are happily operating totally freely & under zero political pressure is the least plausible version of reality. How and to what extent that's manifesting, I do not know.

I'll remind everyone of an observation I've made in the past: the significant differences in price chart characteristics between fiat-holding exchanges and localbitcoins.com, specifically the extra high buy prices. This phenomenon is still with us, not entirely confined to the extant part of the volume range, and is so consistent over the long term that it cannot all be attributed to accidents. These buyers are either foolish, desperate, or both. These figures are much more believable as a cross section of what decisions real traders make when fully considering their actions. Note that the bottoms exhibited on the fiat-centralised exchanges don't really appear on localbitcoins, and in fact, the negative volatility is significantly dampened (i.e. significant skew towards price increases). Is this because traders are operating at mammal based decision making speeds, or is it just because these are actually all real trades with real money?

[vuduchyld]

It doesn't look like it to me, the market is now locked into a new long term downtrend ... by fair means or foul the banksters want cheap coinz ... and people seem to be willing to sell them ever lower. It appears to me to be some kind of algorithm that is designed to walk the market steadily lower, after each dump, new blocking sell walls spring up of a consistent size and interval above market to cap any bounce back rallies developing.

Bitcoin needs a new Silk Road.

As long as price discovery takes place on the exchanges, instead of via supply and demand for commerce, the banksters can play their tricks very easily.

The only killer app for Bitcoin is to enable commerce that would otherwise impossible, and that means the black market.

Note that the black market doesn't imply violent or destructive - it can be as ordinary and benign as operating a lemonade stand without a permit from the city, or participating in a ride sharing service without a taxi license.

Bitcoin needs to give people access to things they can't have without it. A safe and pleasant drug buying experience was a great start, but it's time to think bigger now.

pr0n?

[tvbcof]

Did BTC just dip into the $400's?!?  Who could have guessed?

[rocks]

It doesn't look like it to me, the market is now locked into a new long term downtrend ... by fair means or foul the banksters want cheap coinz ... and people seem to be willing to sell them ever lower. It appears to me to be some kind of algorithm that is designed to walk the market steadily lower, after each dump, new blocking sell walls spring up of a consistent size and interval above market to cap any bounce back rallies developing.

Bitcoin needs a new Silk Road.

As long as price discovery takes place on the exchanges, instead of via supply and demand for commerce, the banksters can play their tricks very easily.

The only killer app for Bitcoin is to enable commerce that would otherwise impossible, and that means the black market.

Note that the black market doesn't imply violent or destructive - it can be as ordinary and benign as operating a lemonade stand without a permit from the city, or participating in a ride sharing service without a taxi license.

Bitcoin needs to give people access to things they can't have without it. A safe and pleasant drug buying experience was a great start, but it's time to think bigger now.

Adoption is proceeding fine IMHO, the number of new services combined with steady/accelerating merchant adoption shows the future direction.

2013 was a crazy speculative year. The price ran up 10,000% from $10 to $1,000 in around 12 months, yet adoption (although growing exponentially) definitely did not grow 10,000% in the same time period. This is why 2013 was a speculative bubble. That does not mean such speculation was wrong, but it was driven by expectation for future adoption that has not yet been realized.

2014 is a pause and catch up year (and maybe 2015 and 2016 too). Adoption is growing which continues to increase the "floor" price, however the price is still ahead of adoption.

Going forward we are starting to see merchants offer BTC discounts (because it saves them money), this will grow adoption. It seems some parts of the porn industry are waking up to BTC as a way to bypass 40% fees and chargebacks, this will grow adoption. We will have OpenBazaar coming up as a global ebay, this will grow adoption. We will have all these VCs services start to come online, this will grow adoption. We can list dozens of other areas, these all will grow adoption.

The end result will be a higher BTC price, but don't be surprised if adoption takes a while to catch-up to the 2013 10,000% run in the price and/or for the price to stall for some time.

[HeliKopterBen]

[kodtycoon]

could you explain briefly how those circles work? it looks like anyone could just draw those no matter the chart and they would work??

[adamstgBit]

could you explain briefly how those circles work? it looks like anyone could just draw those no matter the chart and they would work??

YUP!
its that easy
draw circles around what is clearly consolidation periods after price spikes, and you reveal an interesting piece of info.

[triplef]

LOL where r u ?

[blumangroup]

It doesn't look like it to me, the market is now locked into a new long term downtrend ... by fair means or foul the banksters want cheap coinz ... and people seem to be willing to sell them ever lower. It appears to me to be some kind of algorithm that is designed to walk the market steadily lower, after each dump, new blocking sell walls spring up of a consistent size and interval above market to cap any bounce back rallies developing.

Bitcoin needs a new Silk Road.

As long as price discovery takes place on the exchanges, instead of via supply and demand for commerce, the banksters can play their tricks very easily.

The only killer app for Bitcoin is to enable commerce that would otherwise impossible, and that means the black market.

Note that the black market doesn't imply violent or destructive - it can be as ordinary and benign as operating a lemonade stand without a permit from the city, or participating in a ride sharing service without a taxi license.

Bitcoin needs to give people access to things they can't have without it. A safe and pleasant drug buying experience was a great start, but it's time to think bigger now.

As far as I can tell there are already a couple markets that have filled the void left behind by the Silk Road. People simply need to regain confidence in the security of black market purchases. The about busting an internet marketplace is that nothing significant is really lost. The majority of the userbase remains unscathed and when there's a userbase, there's always a vendor willing to sell.

[Hfleer]

If you just enter a bitcoin position just now, the lower price is good because of 2 effects:

- You bought lower (thanks, caption obv)
- The 3600 coins that are dumped daily due to miners, now need less FIAT currency to get absorbed. So if nothing has changed about the cashflows moving in/out of BTC, then this is a good longterm effect on your investment.!