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Author Topic: Armory - Discussion Thread  (Read 520982 times)
Swimmer63
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November 08, 2013, 07:46:01 PM
 #2801

Nah, I don't know, guys.. The point of an offline wallet is that the privkeys nor the wallet password is never present on the online computer.
Sure, you can encrypt the wallet once again with truecrypt, ssl or rar. But then, would you send someone to the battlefield with two bullet-proof vests?
Should he use two different passwords? So he has a greater risk of mixing them up or forgetting one? Or shall he use the same password twice, so the "outer" encryption is the only one needed to break?

So, the internal wallet-encryption is either secure enough, or it is not. And with the encryption set to need lots of ram (against GPU-bruteforcing), and knowing Alans level of quality-of-work, I lean out of the window to say that shall be enough.
BUT, don't forget you add other risks by having a plain (encrypted) wallet visible: People see it's a wallet (filename and contents), and they even see the public keys. This might, in a worst case scenario, lead to attacks (computational or physical) which wouldn't happen if the wallet was encrypted in "diary.rar".

###############


Alan, any thoughts on that?

I have a general wallet question, which is partly about BIP32, and partly how Armory will implement it.

1) As I understand it, a seed creates a tree, where each branch itself may form a new branch or whole tree, so to speak. With that, will Armory allow to create multiple "wallets" from one single seed?
Right now I use several wallets, for bookkeeping and not mixing up inputs/outputs of different categories. So it would be important that change addresses and inputs only mix within one "wallet" or "wallettree" or whatever it would be called.

With security in mind:
2) From knowing the "public key seed" (or similar) and one single private key, all private keys may be reconstructed. I guess from the "public key seed" and one public address all public addresses may be reconstructed as well then.
Is there anything I have to take care of in reality? As long as I only use regular Armory functions (sending and receiving) and don't export stuff and don't share my wallet file, nothing evil should happen? Is there anything to extract from the wallet file without knowing the encryption password?
3) I.e., is the "public key seed" encrypted too?

And, finally:
4) In case I can haz several "wallets" in one file, from one seed: Can I have several, different passwords for each "wallet"?

To make sense of all this:
Imagine I now have three wallets. One is my unencrypted playmoney, one is my regular funds, one is my long-term savings (with watch-only wallet), one is funds I manage for mom and grandpa. I don't want to lose all of those in case a keylogger steals my one password. I don't want my long-term savings on my online computer altogether.
Will I be able to have all this from one seed, with the new wallet format?

This would be a huge selling point for me, and differentiate Armory even more as a pro wallet, focusing on security and advanced features.

Ente

Ente

Not to be a d$%k but you said "So, the internal wallet-encryption is either secure enough, or it is not."  That really does not make sense to me.  A lot of people like to say your data is "secure" but really it's only secure because no one has found a way around it YET.  Then one day we hear on the news that all our credit card numbers are stolen.  At that point it went from "secure enough" to "not."  And it changed in a flash.
I would not want to be the mark of someone far smarter and depraved than me when they obsolete the word secure for my thumb drive.
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Ente
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November 08, 2013, 11:07:30 PM
 #2802

Not to be a d$%k but you said "So, the internal wallet-encryption is either secure enough, or it is not."  That really does not make sense to me.  A lot of people like to say your data is "secure" but really it's only secure because no one has found a way around it YET.  Then one day we hear on the news that all our credit card numbers are stolen.  At that point it went from "secure enough" to "not."  And it changed in a flash.
I would not want to be the mark of someone far smarter and depraved than me when they obsolete the word secure for my thumb drive.

Well, that's two different kinds of "security":

1) is "low level, algorithm security". Like, if the keys in the wallet file are encrypted via AES, ECDSA or similar, with xy bits and z rounds, I consider it secure.

2) is, totally independent, "high level, operation security". No matter how good 1) is, once I use "asdf" as password, or my supersecure password is stolen via keylogger or rubberhose attack, my funds are gone.

You are talking about 2). In the case you mention, most often servers are hacked (which is an entirely different attack vector than the walletstuff) and the data is stolen right out of the ram, or unencrypted active partition, or similar. 1) isn't even active in that case.
I talk about 1). I want (and am sure) the parameters and algorithms which encrypt the sensitive parts of the wallet to be sound, and to be resistant against brute-force attacks of a large scale attacker for many years. That's all 1) has to do. And it's most definitely not the solution against other, higher-level attacks.

And, as a note: I have long passphrase(s) or real random passwords for my wallets, have the long-term wallet rar-password-encrypted, and finally all wallets or the rar file in a password manager, encrypted with a long masterpassword. With that, I feel reasonably secure in the means of 1) to spread that file for backup. Against 2), I use different passwords, for example. So when one password and its wallet are cleared out, I wouldn't lose all of my wallets.

..and then let's get 3) in the mix: Backup all of that mess securely, but redeemable in case something happens to me :-)

Ente

Ente
Swimmer63
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November 09, 2013, 12:15:51 AM
 #2803

Well put.
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November 11, 2013, 07:32:26 PM
 #2804

why do i seem to be stuck at 98% "scanning transaction history" after a fresh install of 0.88.1 onto Ubuntu 13.10 with bitcoind in the background?

16GB RAM, 64 bit, 750 GB SSD.
jojo69
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November 11, 2013, 08:12:27 PM
 #2805

ok working on the online box now

"the bitcoin software appears to be installed now but needs to be closed for armory to work, close it now?

click ok, click try again

"the bitcoin software does not seem to be installed, change your settings..."

wtaf?  you just shut it down...good grief

I go to settings and point it to the bitcoin directory on my D drive, same message

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
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etotheipi
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November 11, 2013, 08:28:09 PM
 #2806

ok working on the online box now

"the bitcoin software appears to be installed now but needs to be closed for armory to work, close it now?

click ok, click try again

"the bitcoin software does not seem to be installed, change your settings..."

wtaf?  you just shut it down...good grief

I go to settings and point it to the bitcoin directory on my D drive, same message

It's complicated. And ironic wording... sorry about that.

It's easiest if you just run it yourself, if you don't mind running it yourself.  If you do, then go to "File"->"Settings" and uncheck the first checkbox about letting Armory run it for you.  Then close Armory, start Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind, let it synchronize, then start Armory.  It should behave a bit better.   Apparently detection of Bitcoin-Qt installation is still not as good as it could be...

Is it installed?  Did you simply download a zip file and unzip it somewhere?  Did you install to a non-standard directory?


Founder and CEO of Armory Technologies, Inc.
Armory Bitcoin Wallet: Bringing cold storage to the average user!
Only use Armory software signed by the Armory Offline Signing Key (0x98832223)

Please donate to the Armory project by clicking here!    (or donate directly via 1QBDLYTDFHHZAABYSKGKPWKLSXZWCCJQBX -- yes, it's a real address!)
jojo69
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November 11, 2013, 08:32:18 PM
 #2807

yes QT 0.8.5 installed and sycned

aha, "try again" no help but actually quitting armory and restarting after unchecking the box works...thanks

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
Portnoy
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November 11, 2013, 09:30:09 PM
 #2808

yes QT 0.8.5 installed and sycned

aha, "try again" no help but actually quitting armory and restarting after unchecking the box works...thanks

Yes, I found it best to do a restart after changing any of the settings.
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November 11, 2013, 10:37:40 PM
 #2809

why do i seem to be stuck at 98% "scanning transaction history" after a fresh install of 0.88.1 onto Ubuntu 13.10 with bitcoind in the background?

16GB RAM, 64 bit, 750 GB SSD.

i tried closing Armory, starting bitcoind -daemon, then reopening Armory, but still get stuck on 98% "scanning transaction history"!
etotheipi
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November 11, 2013, 10:41:00 PM
 #2810

why do i seem to be stuck at 98% "scanning transaction history" after a fresh install of 0.88.1 onto Ubuntu 13.10 with bitcoind in the background?

16GB RAM, 64 bit, 750 GB SSD.

i tried closing Armory, starting bitcoind -daemon, then reopening Armory, but still get stuck on 98% "scanning transaction history"!

Log file please! 

I'm not sure what would be causing that, besides the dreaded corrupt blockchain database in Bitcoin-Qt.  I haven't heard of that happening a while... i think the core devs must've cleaned that up pretty well.   If you don't mind spending the time and bandwidth, maybe you could try it for me... just let bitcoind redownload the blockchain.   THough you did say it was a fresh install, so I doubt it...

Either way, please send a logfile to support@bitcoinarmory.com!

Founder and CEO of Armory Technologies, Inc.
Armory Bitcoin Wallet: Bringing cold storage to the average user!
Only use Armory software signed by the Armory Offline Signing Key (0x98832223)

Please donate to the Armory project by clicking here!    (or donate directly via 1QBDLYTDFHHZAABYSKGKPWKLSXZWCCJQBX -- yes, it's a real address!)
cypherdoc
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November 11, 2013, 10:46:35 PM
 #2811

why do i seem to be stuck at 98% "scanning transaction history" after a fresh install of 0.88.1 onto Ubuntu 13.10 with bitcoind in the background?

16GB RAM, 64 bit, 750 GB SSD.

i tried closing Armory, starting bitcoind -daemon, then reopening Armory, but still get stuck on 98% "scanning transaction history"!

Log file please! 

I'm not sure what would be causing that, besides the dreaded corrupt blockchain database in Bitcoin-Qt.  I haven't heard of that happening a while... i think the core devs must've cleaned that up pretty well.   If you don't mind spending the time and bandwidth, maybe you could try it for me... just let bitcoind redownload the blockchain.   THough you did say it was a fresh install, so I doubt it...

Either way, please send a logfile to support@bitcoinarmory.com!


bitcoind getinfo returns fully synced blockchain.

log on its way.
etotheipi
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November 12, 2013, 01:10:36 AM
 #2812


Code:
...
...
***ERROR: Block previously main branch, now orphan!?081e107ab0468d867937221970d87cd5101b5b0691c4502b4600000000000000
***ERROR: Block previously main branch, now orphan!?081fd344b0a6ce419cc79621abe2a3e6344635ef6296c39f7400000000000000
***ERROR: Block previously main branch, now orphan!?081fd344b0a6ce419cc79621abe2a3e6344635ef6296c39f7400000000000000
...
...


Definitely the corrupted blk*.dat files that used to happen all the time.  I don't know how you got there after a fresh install, but this was definitely the issue that was always resolved when I told people to remove their blk*.dat files and redownload the chain.

Also, this can happen if you start mainnet Armory on the testnet blockchain, or vice versa.   But I assume that's not the issue here.   I have no othe recommendation other than to nuke your Bitcoin-Qt dir (except wallet.dat) and let it redownload.  Even if Bitcoin-Qt can read it, Armory can't for some reason.  I spent time trying to figure it out, but new it would be obsoleted soon by the new version.


Founder and CEO of Armory Technologies, Inc.
Armory Bitcoin Wallet: Bringing cold storage to the average user!
Only use Armory software signed by the Armory Offline Signing Key (0x98832223)

Please donate to the Armory project by clicking here!    (or donate directly via 1QBDLYTDFHHZAABYSKGKPWKLSXZWCCJQBX -- yes, it's a real address!)
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November 12, 2013, 01:00:49 PM
 #2813

Is this a suitable laptop for running offline armoury?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Notebook-Sandwich-Processor-supported-Compatible/dp/B0099MEZBU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1384260944&sr=8-3&keywords=cheap+laptop

It says it runs android but I can install Ubuntu on there for free right?


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November 12, 2013, 04:33:06 PM
 #2814

Is this a suitable laptop for running offline armoury?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Notebook-Sandwich-Processor-supported-Compatible/dp/B0099MEZBU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1384260944&sr=8-3&keywords=cheap+laptop

It says it runs android but I can install Ubuntu on there for free right?

I don't know about exchanging android with ubuntu, but I would recommend to shell out some more bucks and buy one of those:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/SD-BLK024L-7-inch-Netbook-Linux-Preloaded/dp/B001IBHVCA/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1384273655&sr=8-11&keywords=netbook+linux#productDetails

Asus is a decent company and it comes with xandros preinstalled, but you can easily install ubuntu (read the reviews).

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November 12, 2013, 05:04:54 PM
 #2815


Code:
...
...
***ERROR: Block previously main branch, now orphan!?081e107ab0468d867937221970d87cd5101b5b0691c4502b4600000000000000
***ERROR: Block previously main branch, now orphan!?081fd344b0a6ce419cc79621abe2a3e6344635ef6296c39f7400000000000000
***ERROR: Block previously main branch, now orphan!?081fd344b0a6ce419cc79621abe2a3e6344635ef6296c39f7400000000000000
...
...


Definitely the corrupted blk*.dat files that used to happen all the time.  I don't know how you got there after a fresh install, but this was definitely the issue that was always resolved when I told people to remove their blk*.dat files and redownload the chain.

Also, this can happen if you start mainnet Armory on the testnet blockchain, or vice versa.   But I assume that's not the issue here.   I have no othe recommendation other than to nuke your Bitcoin-Qt dir (except wallet.dat) and let it redownload.  Even if Bitcoin-Qt can read it, Armory can't for some reason.  I spent time trying to figure it out, but new it would be obsoleted soon by the new version.



the only hint i can give you is that for the first time, i let Armory handle the Bitcoin download since this was a fresh install.
Ente
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November 12, 2013, 06:40:43 PM
 #2816

Is this a suitable laptop for running offline armoury?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Notebook-Sandwich-Processor-supported-Compatible/dp/B0099MEZBU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1384260944&sr=8-3&keywords=cheap+laptop

It says it runs android but I can install Ubuntu on there for free right?

Also, there are people around here running an offline Armory on a raspberry pi. It's not as polished as a laptop, but should turn out both smaller and less expensive.

Ente
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November 12, 2013, 07:45:19 PM
 #2817


I don't know about exchanging android with ubuntu, but I would recommend to shell out some more bucks and buy one of those:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/SD-BLK024L-7-inch-Netbook-Linux-Preloaded/dp/B001IBHVCA/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1384273655&sr=8-11&keywords=netbook+linux#productDetails

Asus is a decent company and it comes with xandros preinstalled, but you can easily install ubuntu (read the reviews).



Also, there are people around here running an offline Armory on a raspberry pi. It's not as polished as a laptop, but should turn out both smaller and less expensive.

Ente

Thanks! Smiley I'll look into raspberry pi as that is cheaper.


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November 12, 2013, 08:38:53 PM
 #2818


I don't know about exchanging android with ubuntu, but I would recommend to shell out some more bucks and buy one of those:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/SD-BLK024L-7-inch-Netbook-Linux-Preloaded/dp/B001IBHVCA/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1384273655&sr=8-11&keywords=netbook+linux#productDetails

Asus is a decent company and it comes with xandros preinstalled, but you can easily install ubuntu (read the reviews).

getting ubuntu on a chromebook looks hackish enough to me that i'd not be comfortable with the security of the result.

is that unit or similar available new anywhere...?  trying to identify something like that that is.  best i can find new is the ASUS 1015E-DS03 10.1-Inch Laptop which run about $230 on Amazon.
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November 13, 2013, 07:13:02 AM
 #2819


I don't know about exchanging android with ubuntu, but I would recommend to shell out some more bucks and buy one of those:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/SD-BLK024L-7-inch-Netbook-Linux-Preloaded/dp/B001IBHVCA/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1384273655&sr=8-11&keywords=netbook+linux#productDetails

Asus is a decent company and it comes with xandros preinstalled, but you can easily install ubuntu (read the reviews).

getting ubuntu on a chromebook looks hackish enough to me that i'd not be comfortable with the security of the result.

is that unit or similar available new anywhere...?  trying to identify something like that that is.  best i can find new is the ASUS 1015E-DS03 10.1-Inch Laptop which run about $230 on Amazon.
if you think android is in any way safe, your mistaken...
so having a linux (and not the poor android shit kernel) kernel is better Tongue

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November 13, 2013, 07:38:21 AM
 #2820

is that unit or similar available new anywhere...?  trying to identify something like that that is.  best i can find new is the ASUS 1015E-DS03 10.1-Inch Laptop which run about $230 on Amazon.

The cheapest i could find was this one for $125:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Asus-Eee-PC-901-White-Netbook-8-9-WebCam-1-6Ghz-16GB-SSD-Wi-Fi-n-Windows-XP-/161129451368?pt=Laptops_Nov05&hash=item2584104f68

But it's not new, it's refurbished and comes with a warranty. Comes from canada, cannot see how much shipping fee would be to the us.

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