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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2022643 times)
tvbcof
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January 17, 2015, 02:28:26 AM
 #20261


What problem does this solve?

Infrastructure consolidation mainly.  Also, reliance on single points of failure (such as state mandated interference with network traffic applied to network providers.)

If these things don't bother you, you are probably in the majority.  Some of us are not as comfortable with the potential problems we see here and it decreases the value of Bitcoin as a robust monetary alternative to today's collection of options.

You may think that network interference using deep packet methods is some sort of a loony conspiracy theory that could never happen.  I don't wish to bet my nest-egg on this especially since CALEA is a fixture in the U.S.  Filtering is a relatively small step beyond that, and is fairly common in other countries.  Much R&D is focused on how to do it.  If Bitcoin is pro-active and if it remains compact and tight, it could probably overcome the potential roadblocks here and they would not be fatal.  If it is bloated and consolidated to specialist operators it very probably could not.


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zanzibar
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January 17, 2015, 04:21:12 AM
 #20262

Not sure if Adam is still following here but wondering why he backed out of the debate with Peter Todd over sidechains at TNABC?
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January 17, 2015, 04:23:35 AM
 #20263

Not sure if Adam is still following here but wondering why he backed out of the debate with Peter Todd over sidechains at TNABC?

Tell us about it and what is TNABC? 
JorgeStolfi
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January 17, 2015, 04:42:08 AM
 #20264

Not sure if Adam is still following here but wondering why he backed out of the debate with Peter Todd over sidechains at TNABC?
Tell us about it and what is TNABC? 
The North American Bitcoin Conference

Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
600watt
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January 17, 2015, 04:43:21 AM
 #20265

Ironically, gold up ~3% on the year, while bitcoin is down about %600.

Interesting.

No denying that bitcoin is the clear winner on the 5 year charts, but it's no secret the earliest adopters are always the ones who make a killing.



bitcoin went down more than 100% ??!1


man, this virtual crypto stuff is just magical ..

 Cheesy
tvbcof
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January 17, 2015, 04:52:11 AM
 #20266

Not sure if Adam is still following here but wondering why he backed out of the debate with Peter Todd over sidechains at TNABC?

Tell us about it and what is TNABC? 

Lazy fool.  Thankfully the good professor is around to throw you a life ring.


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January 17, 2015, 06:17:35 AM
 #20267


What problem does this solve?

Infrastructure consolidation mainly.  Also, reliance on single points of failure (such as state mandated interference with network traffic applied to network providers.)

If these things don't bother you, you are probably in the majority.  Some of us are not as comfortable with the potential problems we see here and it decreases the value of Bitcoin as a robust monetary alternative to today's collection of options.

You may think that network interference using deep packet methods is some sort of a loony conspiracy theory that could never happen.  I don't wish to bet my nest-egg on this especially since CALEA is a fixture in the U.S.  Filtering is a relatively small step beyond that, and is fairly common in other countries.  Much R&D is focused on how to do it.  If Bitcoin is pro-active and if it remains compact and tight, it could probably overcome the potential roadblocks here and they would not be fatal.  If it is bloated and consolidated to specialist operators it very probably could not.

I don't think those solve infrastructure consolidation particularly well. Nor does it fix many single points of failure.
Conversely, apriori doesn't multiple algos introduce additional single points of failure with each algorithm added?

Multiple algos also doesn't prevent the ASIC issues.  It is just either multiple ASICs or more complicated ones.  It will start on FPGAs and iteratively optimize until it is worthy of an ASIC and then the future is back to the present.

Location and identity detection is yet another issue entirely, and also it is as problematic as pure privacy.  Adding either of these to a protocol trades sets of issues.  Bitcoin is agnostic to both sides of this spectrum and relegates addressing them to outside the core protocol and codebase.  It instead puts these in the hands of individual implementations.  Both extremes have their places and valid use cases.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
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January 17, 2015, 06:28:42 AM
 #20268

Ironically, gold up ~3% on the year, while bitcoin is down about %600.

Interesting.

No denying that bitcoin is the clear winner on the 5 year charts, but it's no secret the earliest adopters are always the ones who make a killing.

   Bitcoin up 5 million % in 5 years, gold up 10%... care to state your agenda? Somehow your sneering attitude rules out altruism.

Check out my innovative blockchain+killer app project at http://ummati.io --- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2137399.0
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January 17, 2015, 06:37:49 AM
 #20269


What problem does this solve?

Infrastructure consolidation mainly.  Also, reliance on single points of failure (such as state mandated interference with network traffic applied to network providers.)

If these things don't bother you, you are probably in the majority.  Some of us are not as comfortable with the potential problems we see here and it decreases the value of Bitcoin as a robust monetary alternative to today's collection of options.

You may think that network interference using deep packet methods is some sort of a loony conspiracy theory that could never happen.  I don't wish to bet my nest-egg on this especially since CALEA is a fixture in the U.S.  Filtering is a relatively small step beyond that, and is fairly common in other countries.  Much R&D is focused on how to do it.  If Bitcoin is pro-active and if it remains compact and tight, it could probably overcome the potential roadblocks here and they would not be fatal.  If it is bloated and consolidated to specialist operators it very probably could not.


Essentially you are creating a game with rules. Your rules may be sightly more complex but nevertheless quite solvable. The beauty of Bitcoin is its simplicity. You can use all the buzzwords you want, but in the grown up world we have to deal with the inequities in life head on. Bitcoin is not a magic solution. Bitcoin is the AK47 of finance. The power is in our numbers in using it.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
tvbcof
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January 17, 2015, 07:05:43 AM
 #20270


What problem does this solve?

Infrastructure consolidation mainly.  Also, reliance on single points of failure (such as state mandated interference with network traffic applied to network providers.)

If these things don't bother you, you are probably in the majority.  Some of us are not as comfortable with the potential problems we see here and it decreases the value of Bitcoin as a robust monetary alternative to today's collection of options.

You may think that network interference using deep packet methods is some sort of a loony conspiracy theory that could never happen.  I don't wish to bet my nest-egg on this especially since CALEA is a fixture in the U.S.  Filtering is a relatively small step beyond that, and is fairly common in other countries.  Much R&D is focused on how to do it.  If Bitcoin is pro-active and if it remains compact and tight, it could probably overcome the potential roadblocks here and they would not be fatal.  If it is bloated and consolidated to specialist operators it very probably could not.

I don't think those solve infrastructure consolidation particularly well. Nor does it fix many single points of failure.
Conversely, apriori doesn't multiple algos introduce additional single points of failure with each algorithm added?

Multiple algos also doesn't prevent the ASIC issues.  It is just either multiple ASICs or more complicated ones.  It will start on FPGAs and iteratively optimize until it is worthy of an ASIC and then the future is back to the present.

Location and identity detection is yet another issue entirely, and also it is as problematic as pure privacy.  Adding either of these to a protocol trades sets of issues.  Bitcoin is agnostic to both sides of this spectrum and relegates addressing them to outside the core protocol and codebase.  It instead puts these in the hands of individual implementations.  Both extremes have their places and valid use cases.

To be clear, I'm not talking about Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is what we've got and it is what it is.  I think it has the potential be be a solid foundation if the planets align correctly, but it is not on a good trajectory in my opinion.  Hopefully Blockstream will turn things around.

I consider that if 1 of 100 nodes and interconnects were 'unconsolidated' and active and integrated, that is a big step toward providing resiliency.  This because if the 99% were put out of action, the 1% could support the system sort of and provide a tested path forward toward recovery.

One solution I considered would be to have a fairly cheap but specialized device which would be useful as both a transfer and mining node.  It would contain an FPGA and a TPM with Peter Todd's 'break glass' one-time keygen initiation scheme.  The 'testing and validation mesh' that I touched on would blacklist any device which was found to be cheating.  The FPGA could adapt to yet-to-be-described algorithms making it possible to stay ahead of ASIC producers (and run cheap.)  I like some of the concepts Dan Kaminski used for nooter in order to probe for general location and situation, and doing so from multiple points (other nodes in a mesh) might be able to root out cheaters.  Such a device could have multiple functions over and above supporting a P2P currency solution making it a nice thing to own, and probably could be made for not very much money.  Probably also not necessary in order to participate, but a value-add which would be rewarded.


tvbcof
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January 17, 2015, 07:15:44 AM
 #20271


What problem does this solve?

Infrastructure consolidation mainly.  Also, reliance on single points of failure (such as state mandated interference with network traffic applied to network providers.)

If these things don't bother you, you are probably in the majority.  Some of us are not as comfortable with the potential problems we see here and it decreases the value of Bitcoin as a robust monetary alternative to today's collection of options.

You may think that network interference using deep packet methods is some sort of a loony conspiracy theory that could never happen.  I don't wish to bet my nest-egg on this especially since CALEA is a fixture in the U.S.  Filtering is a relatively small step beyond that, and is fairly common in other countries.  Much R&D is focused on how to do it.  If Bitcoin is pro-active and if it remains compact and tight, it could probably overcome the potential roadblocks here and they would not be fatal.  If it is bloated and consolidated to specialist operators it very probably could not.


Essentially you are creating a game with rules. Your rules may be sightly more complex but nevertheless quite solvable. The beauty of Bitcoin is its simplicity. You can use all the buzzwords you want, but in the grown up world we have to deal with the inequities in life head on. Bitcoin is not a magic solution. Bitcoin is the AK47 of finance. The power is in our numbers in using it.

As I said to NewLiberty, I'm not talking about Bitcoin.  My thoughts are flights of fancy with maybe and idea or two worth integrating into some future solution or another depending on how things go.

At this point I favor trying to make Bitcoin be what it needs to be to withstand the types of attacks which are theoretically possible and thus retain a degree of confidence among people like me who's confidence is hard to earn.  Again, Blockstream and sidechains are the most promising thing I've seen in a long time.  I'd rank the development up there in importance with the moment Hal first read Satoshi's mailing list post.

I might add that I see relatively little value in 'the power of our numbers using it.'  Most users are sheep and use Bitcoin as sheep.  They would be more useful in destroying the solution than preserving it.  Development under Gavin's watch could have focused on making the story be different but they didn't.  Closer to just the opposite.


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January 17, 2015, 07:37:20 AM
 #20272

Ironically, gold up ~3% on the year, while bitcoin is down about %600.

Interesting.

No denying that bitcoin is the clear winner on the 5 year charts, but it's no secret the earliest adopters are always the ones who make a killing.

   Bitcoin up 5 million % in 5 years, gold up 10%... care to state your agenda? Somehow your sneering attitude rules out altruism.

Jesus christ.

lrn2read

I clearly stated (and it's in your damn quote) that gold has outperformed bitcoin by a landslide over the past year, but that bitcoin has outperformed gold by a landslide over the past 5 years.

Please.  Read.
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January 17, 2015, 08:09:08 AM
 #20273

Okay, my apologies. But I do wonder about your agenda. I think mine is transparent enough.

Check out my innovative blockchain+killer app project at http://ummati.io --- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2137399.0
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January 17, 2015, 08:11:09 AM
 #20274

Okay, my apologies.

No worries, no harm done
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January 17, 2015, 12:04:13 PM
 #20275

SNB ripple effects ;

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2015/01/switzerland-chapter-2/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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January 17, 2015, 02:04:50 PM
 #20276



2 X Banks in Greece asking for emergency assistance -
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-15/greek-bank-runs-have-begun-two-greek-banks-request-emergency-liquidity-assistance

Bank runs in Greece -
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-16/greek-bank-run-spreads-all-four-largest-banks

All good news for gold, I have no doubt we'll hit £1000 oz shortly.

1 month gold chart -









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January 17, 2015, 02:11:27 PM
 #20277


And BTC  Wink
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January 17, 2015, 02:20:52 PM
 #20278


The only solace I have in this last week in BTC is the great week gold has been having.
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January 17, 2015, 02:55:33 PM
 #20279

Over the summer, I called for this latest dollar rally as the price of oil was  dropping. I've strongly made the case for deflation a long time as well as hinted by rising UST's.  After the SNB did its thing the other day I mentioned to watch the dollar. This guy agrees. This is based on the fact that theUS  was lucky to geta  rally in both during the last crisis. I doubt it happens the same way this time around :

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-16/about-strong-dollar
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January 17, 2015, 04:45:54 PM
 #20280

It looks like gold bugs are buying Bitcoin.

Keep Your Cash out of The Bank?: http://youtu.be/8j_J0lbXkcA

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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