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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2009145 times)
rocks
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February 11, 2015, 01:56:26 AM
 #21161

If there exist entities that both care about Bitcoin and want to end it (and have sufficient motivation and resources)
...then they will succeed, and there's no technological solution we can implement that will stop them.

There is no substitute for growth as a defence against such attackers.
I thought I will bring back the discussion to the original topic (gold vs. BTC), using this very interesting post that fully applies to both BTC and gold. Gold has started this year pretty promising, yet the rally got capped pretty quickly as soon as there was the risk of putting the confirmation of the bottom on the charts. And down we go with the gold (see again the underlined sentence).

Gold was attacked by outright banning possession for 2 generations until the general population forgot about gold's role as money. Today gold is regulated mostly to jewelry and central bank transfers. Without strong general public demand, it is easy for central bank's to manipulate prices.

Bitcoin is much more difficult to attack by banning possession, so they are left with regulation and compliance (for example tax compliance). The problem (for them) is greed is slowly taking hold with more and more people in positions of authority.

For example the ex-CEO of Credit Suisse recently stated "The only investment that demonstrably keeps its value over a long period is gold, and in future perhaps also bitcoins… Gold and Bitcoins production is limited.  Not so with money.  Central banks can print money limitlessly and these days they are telling us that openly.  It’s therefore no longer recoverable." There is a massive wealth transfer opportunity with bitcoin today and that is being recognized by more and more people, greed will protect the project.
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"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Satoshi
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February 11, 2015, 03:40:35 AM
 #21162

There is a massive wealth transfer opportunity with bitcoin today and that is being recognized by more and more people, greed will protect the project.

Bitcoin has the capability to introduce a wedge between the individuals who make up the ruling institutions and the institutions themselves. Those institutions are only as powerful as their ability to promise the people who work for them a better deal than they could get anywhere else.

The name is intentional, DarkWallet is created to be radical.
Something which draws less attention probably would have been wise....too late now.
Actually quite the opposite.

Radical is the winning strategy.

Remember that "government" is just a word - there is no monolithic entity with that name. Instead, there are a large number of individuals who all have their own individual goals and motivations. The extent to which they cooperate to enforce certain policies on the rest of the population is a function of how well their individual goals and motivations align with the goals of the organization itself.

Regulators can't stop Bitcoin any more than the RIAA could stop P2P file sharing, so there's no need for Bitcoin users to self-censor out of a misplaced hope that doing so will protect them.

Every time regulators attempt to stifle Bitcoin and are unsuccessful, Bitcoin will gain more credibility and more users - and very importantly many of those users will be "defectors" from the government side. As governments are finding themselves unable to stop Bitcoin, their organizations will slowly start to fill up with Bitcoin users. Identifying the positive feedback loop in this scenario is left as an exercise for the reader.

Provoking conflict with the regulators is, in fact, the best thing that can happen for Bitcoin in the long term.
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February 11, 2015, 06:54:24 AM
 #21163

If there exist entities that both care about Bitcoin and want to end it (and have sufficient motivation and resources)
...then they will succeed, and there's no technological solution we can implement that will stop them.

There is no substitute for growth as a defence against such attackers.

That's an interesting line of reasoning.

It suggests that Bitcoin can only succeed if no such attackers exist.




Sometimes such attackers keep what is being attacked healthy.

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                   ²²²                 
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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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smoothie
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February 11, 2015, 06:59:24 AM
 #21164

5 Reasons To Buy Gold & Silver In 2015: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-08/guest-post-5-reasons-buy-gold-silver-2015



this chart oddly reminds me Bitcoin's diff+price chart  Lips sealed

A test of the $900 to $1050 range may be in the cards...

look at past resistance...should be support...well we will see.


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           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
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           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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solex
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February 11, 2015, 07:06:10 AM
 #21165

For a price chart which spans more than 10 years, the inflation-adjusted version is also useful. (This one a little stale though).


domob
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February 11, 2015, 07:21:18 AM
 #21166



identity, login, and other certificate authority information might as well be backed by the security of the bitcoin network. ie, use namecoin, which is merge mined with bitcoin.

for ex. https://onename.com/



Do they (OneName) support logins?  The official identity system in Namecoin is the id/ namespace, by the way, not OneName.  See, for instance, https://nameid.org/ - including the ability to log into websites.  (Already in summer 2013, before BitShares was even in discussion, BTW.)

Use your Namecoin identity as OpenID: https://nameid.org/
Donations: 1domobKsPZ5cWk2kXssD8p8ES1qffGUCm | NMC: NCdomobcmcmVdxC5yxMitojQ4tvAtv99pY
BM-GtQnWM3vcdorfqpKXsmfHQ4rVYPG5pKS | GPG 0xA7330737
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February 11, 2015, 08:33:12 AM
 #21167

For a price chart which spans more than 10 years, the inflation-adjusted version is also useful. (This one a little stale though).

Okay so we are fairly near but now somewhat below recent decades' highs. What do you think that indicates?

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February 11, 2015, 09:03:03 AM
 #21168

For a price chart which spans more than 10 years, the inflation-adjusted version is also useful. (This one a little stale though).

Okay so we are fairly near but now somewhat below recent decades' highs. What do you think that indicates?

It looks to me that it will bounce from the $1100s, probably for a few years, even permanently.
Too many shooting wars and currency wars going on for gold to stay down IMHO.

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February 11, 2015, 01:55:08 PM
 #21169

5 Reasons To Buy Gold & Silver In 2015: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-08/guest-post-5-reasons-buy-gold-silver-2015



this chart oddly reminds me Bitcoin's diff+price chart  Lips sealed

A test of the $900 to $1050 range may be in the cards...

look at past resistance...should be support...well we will see.
great to see the updated version of this chart. When are the next talks about raising debt ceiling scheduled? This event may ignite some short-squeeze rally in gold, and possibly it may also have a positive influence on the price of bitcoin. It seems to me that there is a positive correlation between the price of gold and bitcoin, contrary to the title of this thread. Now, which of the two is leading it is another question.

this space is intentionally left blank
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February 11, 2015, 02:20:51 PM
 #21170



identity, login, and other certificate authority information might as well be backed by the security of the bitcoin network. ie, use namecoin, which is merge mined with bitcoin.

for ex. https://onename.com/



Do they (OneName) support logins?  The official identity system in Namecoin is the id/ namespace, by the way, not OneName.  See, for instance, https://nameid.org/ - including the ability to log into websites.  (Already in summer 2013, before BitShares was even in discussion, BTW.)

onename site says login support is coming. btw, i support your work big time and its a bummer the onename guys did not use /id (a mistake imo). but you gotta admit, they have a nicer website (and that sometimes matters when linking to random examples of applications)

edit: but you're right. i should have included nameid.org too.. my bad Domob.
<3



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February 11, 2015, 02:44:03 PM
 #21171

If there exist entities that both care about Bitcoin and want to end it (and have sufficient motivation and resources)
...then they will succeed, and there's no technological solution we can implement that will stop them.

There is no substitute for growth as a defence against such attackers.
I thought I will bring back the discussion to the original topic (gold vs. BTC), using this very interesting post that fully applies to both BTC and gold. Gold has started this year pretty promising, yet the rally got capped pretty quickly as soon as there was the risk of putting the confirmation of the bottom on the charts. And down we go with the gold (see again the underlined sentence).

The goal in both cases XAU/XBT is to increase what is "sufficient" to subvert the currency.  XAU has had thousands of years head start, and is mostly but not completely subverted.

Justusranvier correctly points out that growth is a helpful defense or that.
Bad forks are harmful to it. 
Arguably, so also it is harmful for my showing how a proposal for a fork is bad.  It is just not as harmful as would be the implementation of it.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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February 11, 2015, 03:00:11 PM
 #21172

Gold Collapsing. Bitcoin bottoming.
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February 11, 2015, 05:06:45 PM
 #21173



identity, login, and other certificate authority information might as well be backed by the security of the bitcoin network. ie, use namecoin, which is merge mined with bitcoin.

for ex. https://onename.com/

Identity and access rights are not necessarily linked.  These are different but related problems.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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February 11, 2015, 05:22:43 PM
 #21174

i'm up 15%:

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February 11, 2015, 05:29:27 PM
 #21175

not looking so good:

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February 11, 2015, 06:13:02 PM
 #21176

Dow -100. starting the next roll.  TLT up.
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February 11, 2015, 06:34:52 PM
 #21177

we need to keep Bitcoin focused on the money function.   that is what distinguishes it from altcoins and Bitcoin 2.0 platforms and potentially SC's:

http://coincenter.org/2015/02/cryptocurrency-investments-different-securities-investments/
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February 11, 2015, 06:55:10 PM
 #21178

we need to keep Bitcoin focused on the money function.   that is what distinguishes it from altcoins and Bitcoin 2.0 platforms and potentially SC's:

http://coincenter.org/2015/02/cryptocurrency-investments-different-securities-investments/

Altcoins, Bitcoin 2.0 platforms, App coins are all nice to have, but they are not fuel for the Bitcoin rocket. The technology ripe for disruption is Money itself. 

with Money 2.0 - comes everything that depends on it.


Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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February 11, 2015, 07:20:04 PM
 #21179

we need to keep Bitcoin focused on the money function.   that is what distinguishes it from altcoins and Bitcoin 2.0 platforms and potentially SC's:

http://coincenter.org/2015/02/cryptocurrency-investments-different-securities-investments/

Altcoins, Bitcoin 2.0 platforms, App coins are all nice to have, but they are not fuel for the Bitcoin rocket. The technology ripe for disruption is Money itself. 

with Money 2.0 - comes everything that depends on it.



there you go.

if we win the Money Game, we win everything.
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February 11, 2015, 07:28:37 PM
 #21180

Willie Sutton:



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