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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805901 times)
cypherdoc
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January 18, 2015, 04:05:41 PM
 #20321

Over the summer, I called for this latest dollar rally as the price of oil was  dropping. I've strongly made the case for deflation a long time as well as hinted by rising UST's.  After the SNB did its thing the other day I mentioned to watch the dollar. This guy agrees. This is based on the fact that theUS  was lucky to geta  rally in both during the last crisis. I doubt it happens the same way this time around :

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-16/about-strong-dollar
Its ez to call a dollar rally after its already confirmed ive been saying it since 2011 2012.. and the currency wars dont help.. all snb did was reassure us that central banks need to change to consensus

last summer was clearly the optimal time to go long the dollar:

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January 18, 2015, 04:13:14 PM
 #20322


sounds very interesting but i've just skimmed their material.

my questions about this concept tho are:

1.  how do you endure the integrity of the data at the time of it's injection into the blockchain?  i would think it would be a disaster if a bunch of corrupt county recorders got wind of the idea that residential recordings were about to be injected into a Factom blockchain and decided to tweek the records at an opportune time.  once a corrupt record gets in, how does it ever get reversed?

2.  from what i skimmed, there still needs to be a significant amount of data stored by Factom themselves (as in ordering of mortgage docs) which centralizes the process.  that doesn't seem good either.

3.  finally, legal authorities have to agree to enforce the embedded hash in the blockchain as a legal, agreed upon reference point for integrity. not sure how or if that can work.

but all in all, i favor MC extension of capabilities over SC's for sure.
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January 18, 2015, 04:44:33 PM
 #20323

Everything you need to know about Factom:

https://twitter.com/koinify/status/556495234478407682
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January 18, 2015, 04:48:09 PM
 #20324

my debate with Blockstream, over to SC or not, comes down to not who is right or wrong but rather to how you perceive Bitcoin fits into the real world financial system.  in other words, it is more philosophical than technical in that i'm sure SC's can be made to exist technically in some hodge podge way.  the ultimate question remaining, imo, of will it allow Bitcoin to ever have an impact on where the real problem lies that being in the fiat currency printing space of central banks?  i think not.

to my mind, if you allow SC's to latch onto the MC, you will create a small, isolated trading platform off in some corner of the real financial world whereby you can choose to invest your fiat into either the currency unit or into a multitude of speculative assets offered on the platform in the form of SC's.  to my view, this would be no different than WoW.  popular, but simply a play thing.

but if you allow Bitcoin and its blockchain to develop as a true fixed supply currency and public good, it has a chance of becoming a bonafide global reserve currency listed on the Forex.  that would be huge as it would probably be the end of central banking as we know it.  once established, other speculative assets can then be bought and sold in terms of BTC, ie, denominated in BTC terms.  this path forces real world change in a more fundamental manner that will have a broader, more momentous, impact on the financial world.  anyone wanting to participate would have no other choice than to buy the BTC unit and take the price higher.

i understand that SC's are ultimately a matter of choice, being open source, and that ppl can simply refuse to use them.  but i think the issues are more than that.  allowing a for profit company to make a source code change sends the wrong message to the global community at large that a vested interested group of men can manipulate the code to their own advantage and thus alter Bitcoins greater purpose.  it would imply a community approval of such a move and could be interpreted as Blockstream attempting to take over a system that has the potential to change the financial world.  no one wants that including myself.

Adrian has already outlined the mining risks and changes in incentive that will occur so i won't bother to go into that.
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January 18, 2015, 05:42:16 PM
 #20325

so what the hell is this all about and how does this correlate with what somewhat else said the other day about Adam backing out of the SC debate with Peter Todd?

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January 18, 2015, 06:11:09 PM
 #20326

Everything you need to know about Factom:

https://twitter.com/koinify/status/556495234478407682

i dont get it

Bro, do you even blockchain?
-E Voorhees
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January 18, 2015, 06:32:53 PM
 #20327

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/appcoins-are-snake-oil/
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January 18, 2015, 06:35:13 PM
 #20328

my debate with Blockstream, over to SC or not, comes down to not who is right or wrong but rather to how you perceive Bitcoin fits into the real world financial system.  in other words, it is more philosophical than technical in that i'm sure SC's can be made to exist technically in some hodge podge way.  the ultimate question remaining, imo, of will it allow Bitcoin to ever have an impact on where the real problem lies that being in the fiat currency printing space of central banks?  i think not.

to my mind, if you allow SC's to latch onto the MC, you will create a small, isolated trading platform off in some corner of the real financial world whereby you can choose to invest your fiat into either the currency unit or into a multitude of speculative assets offered on the platform in the form of SC's.  to my view, this would be no different than WoW.  popular, but simply a play thing.

but if you allow Bitcoin and its blockchain to develop as a true fixed supply currency and public good, it has a chance of becoming a bonafide global reserve currency listed on the Forex.  that would be huge as it would probably be the end of central banking as we know it.  once established, other speculative assets can then be bought and sold in terms of BTC, ie, denominated in BTC terms.  this path forces real world change in a more fundamental manner that will have a broader, more momentous, impact on the financial world.  anyone wanting to participate would have no other choice than to buy the BTC unit and take the price higher.

i understand that SC's are ultimately a matter of choice, being open source, and that ppl can simply refuse to use them.  but i think the issues are more than that.  allowing a for profit company to make a source code change sends the wrong message to the global community at large that a vested interested group of men can manipulate the code to their own advantage and thus alter Bitcoins greater purpose.  it would imply a community approval of such a move and could be interpreted as Blockstream attempting to take over a system that has the potential to change the financial world.  no one wants that including myself.

Adrian has already outlined the mining risks and changes in incentive that will occur so i won't bother to go into that.

Just for the record long ago I asked my self what made Bitcoin valuable and the simple tl;dw answer I came up with was the set of voluntary rules that were enforced through incentives.

I relate to almost all the economic concerns put forward by cypher, and I am convinced they will unfold over time and the value I see in Bitcoin could be crippled. I don't hold the view that the blockchain could only be used as money but rather it should be designed to only be used as money, and the world of creative entrepreneurs should find new and innovative uses for that money with out limit. Changing the incentives in protocol puts the long term function of better money at risk.

I don't think my view is the minority, almost every BlockStream announcement and controversial tweet has been met with a big sell off.

My thoughts regarding this recent sell off are one of a voluntary market power shift taking place, those SC proponents with the ability to change Bitcoin have been thrown a juice bone with lots of meat on it, by those who have sold off giving the new risks they intend to introduce.

I'm convinced when BlockStream release a solid business plan that doesn't involve a protocol update we'll see a big uptick in price as that fiat sitting on the side comes back in.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
sidhujag
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January 18, 2015, 06:42:22 PM
 #20329

Over the summer, I called for this latest dollar rally as the price of oil was  dropping. I've strongly made the case for deflation a long time as well as hinted by rising UST's.  After the SNB did its thing the other day I mentioned to watch the dollar. This guy agrees. This is based on the fact that theUS  was lucky to geta  rally in both during the last crisis. I doubt it happens the same way this time around :

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-16/about-strong-dollar
Its ez to call a dollar rally after its already confirmed ive been saying it since 2011 2012.. and the currency wars dont help.. all snb did was reassure us that central banks need to change to consensus

last summer was clearly the optimal time to go long the dollar:



The writing on the wall was clear years ago.. just looks good in hindsight like it would have for me if it happened last year. There was nothing special about last summer that changed fundamentals other than nudge the dollar up at a faster pace.. best time to accumulate is when noone is looking

I seem to recall you kept calling usd tops while I said its just getting started yet now you claimed that youve been calling for this since last summer?
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January 18, 2015, 06:49:58 PM
 #20330

...
Adrian has already outlined the mining risks and changes in incentive that will occur so i won't bother to go into that.

Link?  It's a subject which interests me lately and I didn't see a detailed exploration of it by him.

In fact, I see most people who start to glimpse the horrible truth trying their best to look the other way.  The truth is that stand-alone native Bitcoin support is fundamentally economically broken.  The only hope is to trash some aspects of the standard sales pitch marketing points.  It's just a matter of choosing which ones.

Some vultures around here probably do see the disease that the animal has and are looking forward to picking it's eyes out when it finally falls.  Already they are jockeying for position.

I think that Blockstream is no different with respect to seeing the disease, but the participants are more close to veterinarians who wish to give the beast a shot of antibiotics and back on it's feet again.  This is why Blockstream is composed of people who have undeniably put huge amounts of effort into Bitcoin already and obviously care deeply about it.  We don't see this in the vulture groups at all.

Most people probably conceive of merged mining as a means for other efforts to make use of the strong hand that Bitcoin has.  Merged mining at the two-way-peg nexus with sidechains is the other way around I believe.  That is, to support Bitcoin in it's present sha256 POW form even at a 'loss'.


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January 18, 2015, 07:29:13 PM
 #20331

...
I seem to recall you kept calling usd tops while I said its just getting started yet now you claimed that youve been calling for this since last summer?

Classic cypherdoc.  Used to be he'd counter if called out on such things with 'well, my readers know...'.  I'm dunno if he even has a 'newsletter' any more, but that probably was the primary usefulness of the thing.  Some months ago he tried to pull some shit saying that his secrets were buried in his newsletter but some former subscriber came out of the woodwork and totally called bullshit.  It was very funny.

Cypherdoc knows that he can now appropriate your USD call and within a few months most people will dimly remember him as being totally right and brilliant where the opposite is closer to the truth.  That's not so much a reflection on his sliminess...lots of people do such things...but more a reflection on the mental capacity of much of the community here.


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January 18, 2015, 07:47:54 PM
 #20332

...
I seem to recall you kept calling usd tops while I said its just getting started yet now you claimed that youve been calling for this since last summer?

Classic cypherdoc.  Used to be he'd counter if called out on such things with 'well, my readers know...'.  I'm dunno if he even has a 'newsletter' any more, but that probably was the primary usefulness of the thing.  Some months ago he tried to pull some shit saying that his secrets were buried in his newsletter but some former subscriber came out of the woodwork and totally called bullshit.  It was very funny.

Cypherdoc knows that he can now appropriate your USD call and within a few months most people will dimly remember him as being totally right and brilliant where the opposite is closer to the truth.  That's not so much a reflection on his sliminess...lots of people do such things...but more a reflection on the mental capacity of much of the community here.



Your willingness to latch onto an incorrect statement by sidhuajag shows your intellectual dishonesty by not doing your own verification. He's got it wrong; I clearly have been calling for the dollar rally done back in the summer when I linked toa  podcast by Ambrose Evans Pritchard as support. I'll try to find the link. What's he's referring to is my stock market top misses which I freely admit to.

You should really stop commenting as you clearly don't read this thread with any ability to follow what's said. Examples of your misunderstanding and being constantly behind:  thinking SC's are tokens, I cancelled my newsletter here a year ago, your not remembering  how Adrian has continuously hammered home the mining problems that SC's will introduce. He's probably got over 50 posts on the subject alone yet you don't have a clue. Lol.
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January 18, 2015, 08:10:14 PM
 #20333

Interesting insight to the SNB. maybe we all have a chance after all especially with Bitcoin :

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/01/gavyn-davies-on-the-swiss-central-bank.html
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January 18, 2015, 08:14:31 PM
 #20334

More hope for Bitcoin and mankind :

"I find it a bit surprising that he did not contact me, but, you know, we'll check on that. By the way, the IMF used to be the referee of any currency variation. That has changed over time," she said. 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/christine-lagarde-swiss-national-bank-decision-2015-1?r=US
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January 18, 2015, 08:26:55 PM
 #20335

Its finally starting to dawn on people. Buy the fricking coin!:

http://signal-hub.com/2014/12/30/the-paradox-of-investing-in-bitcoin-startups/

This works because we have a real world example of how:  gold
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January 18, 2015, 08:46:34 PM
 #20336

http://www.coindesk.com/federal-reserve-bank-vp-protocol-just-like-bitcoin/

"In a conversation with CoinDesk, Andolfatto went so far as to suggest that the bitcoin network isn’t that much different from the Federal Reserve"

Uh yeeeaahh
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January 18, 2015, 08:55:30 PM
 #20337

Cry baby Jamie

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-jp-morgans-dimon-is-wrong-about-whats-bedeviling-banks-2015-01-17?mod=mw_share_twitter
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January 18, 2015, 09:02:49 PM
 #20338

http://www.coindesk.com/federal-reserve-bank-vp-protocol-just-like-bitcoin/

"In a conversation with CoinDesk, Andolfatto went so far as to suggest that the bitcoin network isn’t that much different from the Federal Reserve"

Uh yeeeaahh

If a group of insiders can joystick the protocol to their whim, he will not be wrong.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
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January 18, 2015, 09:03:43 PM
 #20339

so what the hell is this all about and how does this correlate with what somewhat else said the other day about Adam backing out of the SC debate with Peter Todd?

  http://i.imgur.com/l6rQvTO.png

I looked up the schedule on-line a few days ago and didn't notice anything scheduled from Blockstream at all.  The web site which contained a lot of logos was terribly slow to load so I canceled it, but I didn't notice Blockstream popping up by the time I did.

Frankly, after the 2013 conference in San Jose, I sort of feel that these trade show things are mainly a venue for bad ideas to be sprouted and grow so Blockstream being a no-show (if they actually are) is kind of a positive to my way of thinking.  Bad ideas like how do we get coin tainting going, and since almost everyone on some supposedly important panel seems to think its a no-brainier it must be a good idea.


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January 18, 2015, 09:57:22 PM
 #20340

so what the hell is this all about and how does this correlate with what somewhat else said the other day about Adam backing out of the SC debate with Peter Todd?

  http://i.imgur.com/l6rQvTO.png

I looked up the schedule on-line a few days ago and didn't notice anything scheduled from Blockstream at all.  The web site which contained a lot of logos was terribly slow to load so I canceled it, but I didn't notice Blockstream popping up by the time I did.

Frankly, after the 2013 conference in San Jose, I sort of feel that these trade show things are mainly a venue for bad ideas to be sprouted and grow so Blockstream being a no-show (if they actually are) is kind of a positive to my way of thinking.  Bad ideas like how do we get coin tainting going, and since almost everyone on some supposedly important panel seems to think its a no-brainier it must be a good idea.



The blockstream notion was pretty much spawned at the San Jose 2013 conference, as I recall.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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