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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2022643 times)
Zangelbert Bingledack
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February 13, 2015, 02:27:29 PM
 #21241


Awesome article, exactly what is missing from the central planning oriented dev talk. Can we get a visual version of this argument? I suspect the two-part article's length and weightiness is limiting its virality as of now.

When you consider it for a bit, it starts to seem strikingly obvious: node operators offer a valuable service to miners and users, and although right now they do so for free, when and if it starts to be difficult for them to do so, a market will form on its own as node operators and other interested parties negotiate their own rules and fees.

Blocksize should have no hard limit. As with everything else, it should be economically limited. The trick is not to panic about "how the market could possibly handle it without central planning." No one is smart enough to figure out all the little rules and stipulations for each economic relationship, let alone do so in advance, let alone get consensus on such rules. Just remove the cap and let the market work. Babying the market with paternalism in the form of artificial scarcity just leaves the space open for competitors to stick their oars in.
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February 13, 2015, 02:33:53 PM
 #21242

This is a huge deal. One of the most successful bitcoin companies meets one of the most successful business models= BOOM :

https://www.coinbase.com/apps/54db4e971e21224be40004aa
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February 13, 2015, 03:58:44 PM
 #21243

Bullshit

ain't that perrrrty:

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February 13, 2015, 04:16:21 PM
 #21244


"i love bullshit"


all these boys refuse to listen to you.  why is that?:

Preet Bharara "there is nothing wrong with Bitcoin":

http://www.msnbc.com/the-cycle/watch/why-bitcoin-is-important-398177347735

Larry Summers Likes the Idea of Bitcoin

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2015/02/12/larry-summers-likes-the-idea-of-bitcoin/?_r=1

Edmund Moy Former Head of the US Mint:

The Currency Revolution, Courtesy of Bitcoin

http://edmoy.com/the-currency-revolution-courtesy-of-bitcoin/
NotLambchop
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February 13, 2015, 04:38:47 PM
 #21245


"[Bitcoin] is a mirage."--

Mine's bigger Cool
sidhujag
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February 13, 2015, 04:52:24 PM
 #21246

U cant compare usd and bitcoin in terms of volatility not fair comparison.. however lets try:

Usd volume daily $4 trillion
btc volume daily $4 million

Usd basket volatility = 0.1% daily
btc volatility = 10% daily

Comparing USD volatility to BTC?  You're thinking of that batshit crazy rpietila.  I agree, laughable.
I'm pretty much with you on BTC being a hundred times as volatile as USD, but caveat:  The prices in my grocery store aren't adjusted every ten minutes, not even by .1% Cheesy

Quote
Btc adjusted volatility if volume was $4 trilliion = 0.000001%

Now which one looks more stable???

If BTC had volume of $4trillion, it would be USD, and thus stable.  It's not, so it ain't.
 
As far as your "adjusted volatility," you've clearly been to universities, but I'm afraid it don't work like you think it does Cheesy
Once btc has volume of $4 trillion of purchasing power today in btc then prices in the stores will be in btc thus volatility is just on the market and that low value that i came up with... Because of limited supply volatility will tend towards 0 as population increases

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Wekkel
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February 13, 2015, 05:04:55 PM
 #21247

Thank God honey badger doesn't care for naysayers. It just doesn't.

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NotLambchop
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February 13, 2015, 05:18:57 PM
 #21248

...
Once btc has volume of $4 trillion of purchasing power today in btc then prices in the stores will be in btc thus volatility is just on the market and that low value that i came up with... Because of limited supply volatility will tend towards 0 as population increases

If my shitcoin had "$4 trillion of purchasing power," it wouldn't be the shitcoin that it is, would it?  How many different ways must this be restated?

TL;DR: Here's your reasoning:
"Once pigs seat more people than an A380 & start to fly just as fast, they would give Airbus some competition."
True.  They would.  Caveat:  They don't, and Airbus ain't worried.  Ain't likely to, either.

@Wekkel: Make that "didn't care."
sidhujag
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February 13, 2015, 05:38:49 PM
 #21249

...
Once btc has volume of $4 trillion of purchasing power today in btc then prices in the stores will be in btc thus volatility is just on the market and that low value that i came up with... Because of limited supply volatility will tend towards 0 as population increases

If my shitcoin had "$4 trillion of purchasing power," it wouldn't be the shitcoin that it is, would it?  How many different ways must this be restated?

TL;DR: Here's your reasoning:
"Once pigs seat more people than an A380 & start to fly just as fast, they would give Airbus some competition."
True.  They would.  Caveat:  They don't, and Airbus ain't worried.  Ain't likely to, either.

@Wekkel: Make that "didn't care."

A token with inherent utility is better than the one without it. Market will adjust on its own.

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Wekkel
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February 13, 2015, 05:42:23 PM
 #21250

There are no guarantees in life. Some take their chances and act. Others just try to keep a player down. Others never knew what hit them.

So be it.

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NotLambchop
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February 13, 2015, 05:44:04 PM
 #21251

>A token with inherent utility

WTF does that even mean?  

@Wekkel re. "Some take their chances and act":  You're just running with scissors.  Nothing laudable about that.

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February 13, 2015, 06:20:36 PM
 #21252

I wonder when NLC panic buys Smiley
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February 13, 2015, 07:23:31 PM
 #21253

Time praying for lost souls was better spent in all those altcoin threads back in 2013. But I'll leave this thread to the OP again for the real info.

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February 13, 2015, 08:23:32 PM
 #21254

>A token with inherent utility

WTF does that even mean?  

@Wekkel re. "Some take their chances and act":  You're just running with scissors.  Nothing laudable about that.


"Token money is money made from tokens of some form, as opposed to account money. Most modern coins used in circulation are token money, as are paper notes."

Bitcoin = Token with utility BUILT-IN to its protocol. If you don't understand that sorry I can't help you.

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February 13, 2015, 08:26:48 PM
 #21255

I wonder when NLC panic buys Smiley

NLC bought at $1200, sold at $200, and sold short at $160.  He doesn't have any money left to panic buy.

Counterfeit:  made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive:  merriam-webster
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February 13, 2015, 09:31:55 PM
 #21256

I wonder when NLC panic buys Smiley

NLC bought at $1200, sold at $200, and sold short at $160.  He doesn't have any money left to panic buy.

HAHAHAH yea i saw his order history... its pretty bad. I heard he took a line of credit to short @ $160 too.. hes in the red about to lose his shirt a few more bucks.

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February 13, 2015, 09:49:54 PM
 #21257

The trick is not to panic about "how the market could possibly handle it without central planning." No one is smart enough to figure out all the little rules and stipulations for each economic relationship, let alone do so in advance, let alone get consensus on such rules. Just remove the cap and let the market work. Babying the market with paternalism in the form of artificial scarcity just leaves the space open for competitors to stick their oars in.

Well said.
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February 13, 2015, 11:22:02 PM
 #21258

The trick is not to panic about "how the market could possibly handle it without central planning." No one is smart enough to figure out all the little rules and stipulations for each economic relationship, let alone do so in advance, let alone get consensus on such rules. Just remove the cap and let the market work. Babying the market with paternalism in the form of artificial scarcity just leaves the space open for competitors to stick their oars in.

Well said.

You (rocks), justusranvier, the guy you quoted (not going to try to type zangle....), and a few others are, in my opinion, some of the smarter guys on this forum.  Thanks for sticking around.  Sorry for not thanking you sooner.  Please don't leave us.  Just because mindless trolls and zombies are grunting and bumping into each other does not mean it is time to leave.  I am not a conspiracy person but have wondered if some of the trolls are not hired shills... There IS a lot at stake here.

Free markets work.  In this situation where we have few to none of the categorized market weaknesses (negative externalities, pop culture, public goods) freeing the market while minding incentives in the structure of the system is best.  Nodes, at this point, seem to be victim to the public good weakness but everything else is flawless.  I run a full node as well as some miners (at a loss and since 2010) because I am altruistic in spite of my admiration for "Atlas Shrugged."  We just can't expect everyone else to get gushy over my love of humanity and the beauty of this bloodless revolution so incentives need to be in place for the brightest future.  Invisible hand (Adam Smith) only works when it is invisible. 
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February 14, 2015, 12:07:49 AM
 #21259

The trick is not to panic about "how the market could possibly handle it without central planning." No one is smart enough to figure out all the little rules and stipulations for each economic relationship, let alone do so in advance, let alone get consensus on such rules. Just remove the cap and let the market work. Babying the market with paternalism in the form of artificial scarcity just leaves the space open for competitors to stick their oars in.

Well said.

You (rocks), justusranvier, the guy you quoted (not going to try to type zangle....), and a few others are, in my opinion, some of the smarter guys on this forum.  Thanks for sticking around.  Sorry for not thanking you sooner.  Please don't leave us.  Just because mindless trolls and zombies are grunting and bumping into each other does not mean it is time to leave.  I am not a conspiracy person but have wondered if some of the trolls are not hired shills... There IS a lot at stake here.

Free markets work.  In this situation where we have few to none of the categorized market weaknesses (negative externalities, pop culture, public goods) freeing the market while minding incentives in the structure of the system is best.  Nodes, at this point, seem to be victim to the public good weakness but everything else is flawless.  I run a full node as well as some miners (at a loss and since 2010) because I am altruistic in spite of my admiration for "Atlas Shrugged."  We just can't expect everyone else to get gushy over my love of humanity and the beauty of this bloodless revolution so incentives need to be in place for the brightest future.  Invisible hand (Adam Smith) only works when it is invisible. 

if you haven't signed your nodes up for the Incentive Program, you should.  a few days ago i signed my 4 up:

https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/incentive/
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February 14, 2015, 12:41:33 AM
 #21260

>A token with inherent utility

WTF does that even mean?  

@Wekkel re. "Some take their chances and act":  You're just running with scissors.  Nothing laudable about that.


"Token money is money made from tokens of some form, as opposed to account money. Most modern coins used in circulation are token money, as are paper notes."

Bitcoin = Token with utility BUILT-IN to its protocol. If you don't understand that sorry I can't help you.

Lol, this is exactly the batshit crazy ramblings level of scholarship I'm talking about.  You quote a wikip article stub, with 0 [ZERO] citations.
Here:

So yeah, junk stub is junk Sad

Googling further, we find another definition, from Webster online:
Definition of TOKEN MONEY
:  money of regular government issue (as paper currency or coins) having a greater face value than intrinsic value
Hmm...  Gubermint?  that don't sound like the Bitcoin we know and love Angry  Let's google 'round a bit more, see if we can scrape up some more definitions of "token money"...  Okay, here we go:

Token Money
A means of payment whose value of purchasing power as money greatly exceeds its cost of production of value in uses other than as money.
...UK. *reads again* Righto...  Derrida couldn't 'a said it clearer.
Anyhow, doesn't seem like any of the experts agree, and it's safe to assume Mr. 82.70.142.134, the wikipedo who penned your learned quote, is a typical self-appointed expert.


But wait!  We're still mucking about with the "token" part of "A token with inherent utility."  Imagine how much fun we'll have when we define the latter, and mate the two in an insestuous coupling of wisdom?!  Stay tuned, culture lovers & international finance enthusiast!
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