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Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805730 times)
iCEBREAKER
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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.


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January 15, 2015, 11:08:00 AM
 #20181

So the petrodollar died in Nov, and nobody noticed, as "for the first time in almost two decades, energy-exporting countries would pull their "petrodollars" out of world markets in 2015."  (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-14/russia-just-pulled-itself-out-petrodollar)

How long until this impacts the USD index?

Is gold going vertical this morning the first cloud of an oncoming storm, or will it take years for King Dollar's momentum to dissipate?

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
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cypherdoc
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January 15, 2015, 11:09:29 AM
 #20182

But what's the problem with introducing people to bitcoin via gaming microtransactions anyway?
It would be better if the increase in transactions comes from remittances or merchant payments. But it's better than nothing I guess.

I'm more concerned about hitting the 1MB limit before there is a solution to it being rolled out.
A game app would not have be anywhere near as popular as angry birds to flood the blocks.



There's no doubt though that there is panic selling too as well. But even Sarotoubi serves a  purpose to pay miners,  get  the word out, and probably most importantly pay miner fees.  They need those to stay solvent and we want them to stay solvent to secure the network. And if it pushes the devs to increasing block size sooner, great.
By the way what do you think about the political controversy around that block size increase? Mircea Popescu will do anything to screw the hard fork. This could end up being really messy.

Storm in a teacup.

Yep
BldSwtTrs
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January 15, 2015, 11:11:31 AM
 #20183

But what's the problem with introducing people to bitcoin via gaming microtransactions anyway?
It would be better if the increase in transactions comes from remittances or merchant payments. But it's better than nothing I guess.

I'm more concerned about hitting the 1MB limit before there is a solution to it being rolled out.
A game app would not have be anywhere near as popular as angry birds to flood the blocks.



There's no doubt though that there is panic selling too as well. But even Sarotoubi serves a  purpose to pay miners,  get  the word out, and probably most importantly pay miner fees.  They need those to stay solvent and we want them to stay solvent to secure the network. And if it pushes the devs to increasing block size sooner, great.
By the way what do you think about the political controversy around that block size increase? Mircea Popescu will do anything to screw the hard fork. This could end up being really messy.

Storm in a teacup.

Yep
I wish too, but maybe MP will get some support in the community, he already has a decent numbers of loyal followers. I don't think this issue should be underestimate.
cypherdoc
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January 15, 2015, 11:17:20 AM
 #20184

But what's the problem with introducing people to bitcoin via gaming microtransactions anyway?
It would be better if the increase in transactions comes from remittances or merchant payments. But it's better than nothing I guess.

I'm more concerned about hitting the 1MB limit before there is a solution to it being rolled out.
A game app would not have be anywhere near as popular as angry birds to flood the blocks.



There's no doubt though that there is panic selling too as well. But even Sarotoubi serves a  purpose to pay miners,  get  the word out, and probably most importantly pay miner fees.  They need those to stay solvent and we want them to stay solvent to secure the network. And if it pushes the devs to increasing block size sooner, great.
By the way what do you think about the political controversy around that block size increase? Mircea Popescu will do anything to screw the hard fork. This could end up being really messy.

Storm in a teacup.

Yep
I wish too, but maybe MP will get some support in the community, he already has a decent numbers of loyal followers. I don't think this issue should be underestimate.

True, but don't underestimate Gavin either despite punks like tvbcof criticizing him all the time. He has tremendous political power and many people including myself feel he's been the perfect guy to lead us to where we are now. No one's perfect but he's been great.

Plus, I'll take Sarotoubi anyday if that is what it takes to get us to the next level which it clearly might be: micro tx's.
cypherdoc
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January 15, 2015, 11:26:54 AM
 #20185

So the petrodollar died in Nov, and nobody noticed, as "for the first time in almost two decades, energy-exporting countries would pull their "petrodollars" out of world markets in 2015."  (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-14/russia-just-pulled-itself-out-petrodollar)

How long until this impacts the USD index?

Is gold going vertical this morning the first cloud of an oncoming storm, or will it take years for King Dollar's momentum to dissipate?

Approaching my little yellow "x" (cypher sharpens DZZ stick).
Cipa
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January 15, 2015, 11:33:41 AM
 #20186

warning for Bitcoin Bears. 

Gold looks to be weakening and is threatening to roll over:



silver has really gone nowhere and can't even get up to resistance:



if they do roll here Bears, look the hell out.
Can you explain how gold and silver prices influence BTC? It's not a troll post, I don't know anything about Economics, but I'm interested.
iCEBREAKER
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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.


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January 15, 2015, 11:37:56 AM
 #20187

Approaching my little yellow "x" (cypher sharpens DZZ stick).

Being double-short gold means being double-long fiat.

I'd never take such a risk, but good luck with that.   Undecided

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
cypherdoc
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January 15, 2015, 11:41:30 AM
 #20188

Approaching my little yellow "x" (cypher sharpens DZZ stick).

Being double-short gold means being double-long fiat.

I'd never take such a risk, but good luck with that.   Undecided

Actually it means being long Bitcoin. Welcome to the Digital Age!  Wink
cypherdoc
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January 15, 2015, 11:45:04 AM
 #20189

warning for Bitcoin Bears. 

Gold looks to be weakening and is threatening to roll over:



silver has really gone nowhere and can't even get up to resistance:



if they do roll here Bears, look the hell out.
Can you explain how gold and silver prices influence BTC? It's not a troll post, I don't know anything about Economics, but I'm interested.

Hard fixed liquid supply bitcoin > mushy fixed illiquid supply of gold. One has been money for 5k years, other will  be money for 5k years.
sgbett
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January 15, 2015, 11:49:30 AM
 #20190

im not sure what it means, and I don't have a nice chart, but I think this belongs in here!

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30829917

edit: I made a handy infographic, for simple folks like me.


http://haschinabannedbitcoin.com
Full Node: http://46.51.193.129 (BU)
"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution" - Satoshi Nakamoto
cypherdoc
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January 15, 2015, 12:07:24 PM
 #20191

im not sure what it means, and I don't have a nice chart, but I think this belongs in here!

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30829917

That is interesting. What I think might start happening is a fall in the USD as a  result  which could send Bitcoin soaring.  
tabnloz
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January 15, 2015, 12:13:12 PM
 #20192

im not sure what it means, and I don't have a nice chart, but I think this belongs in here!

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30829917

That is interesting. What I think might start happening is a fall in the USD as a  result  which could send Bitcoin soaring.  

That's pre-empting QE EU.


Did anyone see it coming?
cypherdoc
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January 15, 2015, 12:41:14 PM
 #20193

im not sure what it means, and I don't have a nice chart, but I think this belongs in here!

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30829917

That is interesting. What I think might start happening is a fall in the USD as a  result  which could send Bitcoin soaring.  

That's pre-empting QE EU.


Did anyone see it coming?

Nah, no one ever sees these things coming.
cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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January 15, 2015, 12:44:58 PM
 #20194

Nah, no one ever sees these things coming.
In a way we did.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
sgbett
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January 15, 2015, 12:56:30 PM
 #20195

Nah, no one ever sees these things coming.
In a way we did.

The problem is what the hell do you do!?

http://haschinabannedbitcoin.com
Full Node: http://46.51.193.129 (BU)
"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution" - Satoshi Nakamoto
cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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January 15, 2015, 12:59:08 PM
 #20196

to the SC proponents who insist that the 2wp will equalize fiat exchange prices across SC's thru arbitrage.

just look at the $16ish spread btwn Bitfinex and the Chinese exchanges.  and this is with open, relatively equally liquid exchanges that DON'T have a 2 day lock up.  just imagine how volatile and disparate an illiquid, insecure SC can get with manipulation.
This.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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January 15, 2015, 01:00:24 PM
 #20197

Nah, no one ever sees these things coming.
In a way we did.

The problem is what the hell do you do!?
Don't make your currency a side chain to another currency.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
NewLiberty
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Gresham's Lawyer


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January 15, 2015, 01:15:33 PM
 #20198

im not sure what it means, and I don't have a nice chart, but I think this belongs in here!

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30829917

That is interesting. What I think might start happening is a fall in the USD as a  result  which could send Bitcoin soaring.  

That's pre-empting QE EU.


Did anyone see it coming?

Nah, no one ever sees these things coming.
Everyone knew it would come, but only the inner circle knew when.
Pegs always fail. 
Why the Blockstream folks like to use the word for the SC "currency that is a wallet for bitcoin" still baffles me.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
Kupsi
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9.9.2012: I predict that single digits... <- FAIL


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January 15, 2015, 01:21:53 PM
 #20199

to the SC proponents who insist that the 2wp will equalize fiat exchange prices across SC's thru arbitrage.

just look at the $16ish spread btwn Bitfinex and the Chinese exchanges.  and this is with open, relatively equally liquid exchanges that DON'T have a 2 day lock up.  just imagine how volatile and disparate an illiquid, insecure SC can get with manipulation.
This.

How do you transfer fiat between Bitfinex and the Chinese exchanges in less than two days?
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◕_◕


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January 15, 2015, 01:57:28 PM
 #20200

Pegs always fail.  

but unlike CHF/EUR, the SC 2wp would be irremovable (barring *another* protocol change). is it fair to compare?
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