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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2022644 times)
justusranvier
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February 08, 2015, 06:02:40 PM
 #21081

Cyprus did not cause the April 2013 rally. I don't know why everyone thinks that... Also, Greece isn't going to impact bitcoins price.

correct. I keep pointing it out myself, but people don't listen to reason a lot these days.
Why do people call it an April rally?

It started in January and ended in April.
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solex
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February 08, 2015, 06:53:35 PM
 #21082

Cyprus did not cause the April 2013 rally. I don't know why everyone thinks that... Also, Greece isn't going to impact bitcoins price.

correct. I keep pointing it out myself, but people don't listen to reason a lot these days.
Why do people call it an April rally?

It started in January and ended in April.

People also blame MtGox for the crash from $266. Whereas gox went down afterwards, when it was about $125,  and after their outage the price continued from that level.

hdbuck
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February 08, 2015, 06:57:56 PM
 #21083

Cyprus did not cause the April 2013 rally. I don't know why everyone thinks that... Also, Greece isn't going to impact bitcoins price.

correct. I keep pointing it out myself, but people don't listen to reason a lot these days.
Why do people call it an April rally?

It started in January and ended in April.

People also blame MtGox for the crash from $266. Whereas gox went down afterwards, when it was about $125,  and after their outage the price continued from that level.

Well i'd blame Mtgox for the 1250$ bubble. Both rise and crash.

Besides, I agree that it is not cyprus itself that 'caused' the jan-april surge, but i figured it is the context that matters.
Such econmical crisis should provide solid ground for the pumpers to get active behind the curtains..
fordlincoln
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February 08, 2015, 07:44:43 PM
 #21084

Cyprus did not cause the April 2013 rally. I don't know why everyone thinks that... Also, Greece isn't going to impact bitcoins price.

correct. I keep pointing it out myself, but people don't listen to reason a lot these days.

I don't know why everyone thinks that...

I do: people like a good simple story.There's a part of the brain that is responsible for making sense of everything (after the fact). It's a lazy bastard.

I'm beginning to suspect human history looks a lot different from what is depicted in history books. Maybe we should start putting stuff into blockchains (or _the_ blockchain) so it can't be changed later... is that what factom is doing, btw?


yes factom is hashing for proof of existence
using the blockchain
cypherdoc
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February 08, 2015, 07:52:00 PM
 #21085

Cyprus did not cause the April 2013 rally. I don't know why everyone thinks that... Also, Greece isn't going to impact bitcoins price.

correct. I keep pointing it out myself, but people don't listen to reason a lot these days.

I don't know why everyone thinks that...

I do: people like a good simple story.There's a part of the brain that is responsible for making sense of everything (after the fact). It's a lazy bastard.

I'm beginning to suspect human history looks a lot different from what is depicted in history books. Maybe we should start putting stuff into blockchains (or _the_ blockchain) so it can't be changed later... is that what factom is doing, btw?


yes factom is hashing for proof of existence
using the blockchain

doesn't the initial insertion/verification of the factom data into the blockchain introduce a centralized, potentially corruptible, weak point in the system?
fordlincoln
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February 08, 2015, 08:00:16 PM
 #21086

Cyprus did not cause the April 2013 rally. I don't know why everyone thinks that... Also, Greece isn't going to impact bitcoins price.

correct. I keep pointing it out myself, but people don't listen to reason a lot these days.

I don't know why everyone thinks that...

I do: people like a good simple story.There's a part of the brain that is responsible for making sense of everything (after the fact). It's a lazy bastard.

I'm beginning to suspect human history looks a lot different from what is depicted in history books. Maybe we should start putting stuff into blockchains (or _the_ blockchain) so it can't be changed later... is that what factom is doing, btw?


yes factom is hashing for proof of existence
using the blockchain

doesn't the initial insertion/verification of the factom data into the blockchain introduce a centralized, potentially corruptible, weak point in the system?




regarding the centralized, potentially corruptible, weak point in the system that inserting data into the blockchain presents- this is potentially true if we were to take raw data - however, Factom only inserts a hash into the blockchain, not the data itself.
explorer
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February 08, 2015, 08:06:03 PM
 #21087

What are the odds that this greek situation would start a bitcoin rally?

   Kind of like Cyprus.  If the timing is coincidental to a major rally, who's to say what comes first?  Either will boost the other, I think.  BTC gets major press as the EUR tanks, or EUR tanks as BTC takes off.  2015 is going to be a boiling year of change, any way you look at it.  

Cyprus did not cause the April 2013 rally. I don't know why everyone thinks that... Also, Greece isn't going to impact bitcoins price.

Just noting that the timing of the PEAK was coincidental, and could build toward a similar outcome again.   Anyone holding euros (IMO) aught to be gambling them soon on whatever they can, in Greece or anywhere else.  Zero is coming for you...
cypherdoc
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February 08, 2015, 08:06:22 PM
 #21088

Cyprus did not cause the April 2013 rally. I don't know why everyone thinks that... Also, Greece isn't going to impact bitcoins price.

correct. I keep pointing it out myself, but people don't listen to reason a lot these days.

I don't know why everyone thinks that...

I do: people like a good simple story.There's a part of the brain that is responsible for making sense of everything (after the fact). It's a lazy bastard.

I'm beginning to suspect human history looks a lot different from what is depicted in history books. Maybe we should start putting stuff into blockchains (or _the_ blockchain) so it can't be changed later... is that what factom is doing, btw?


yes factom is hashing for proof of existence
using the blockchain

doesn't the initial insertion/verification of the factom data into the blockchain introduce a centralized, potentially corruptible, weak point in the system?




regarding the centralized, potentially corruptible, weak point in the system that inserting data into the blockchain presents- this is potentially true if we were to take raw data - however, Factom only inserts a hash into the blockchain, not the data itself.


but the raw data from which the hash is derived can contain corruptible data.

as an example; the mountains of mortgage loan docs.  someone can insert a fraudulent doc stating your home reverts to them in 5 yrs w/o your knowledge.  no one reads all these docs.  this gets hashed and inserted to BC thus memorializing that fact.
Melbustus
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February 08, 2015, 08:35:49 PM
 #21089

Cyprus did not cause the April 2013 rally. I don't know why everyone thinks that... Also, Greece isn't going to impact bitcoins price.

correct. I keep pointing it out myself, but people don't listen to reason a lot these days.

I don't know why everyone thinks that...

I do: people like a good simple story.There's a part of the brain that is responsible for making sense of everything (after the fact). It's a lazy bastard.

I'm beginning to suspect human history looks a lot different from what is depicted in history books. Maybe we should start putting stuff into blockchains (or _the_ blockchain) so it can't be changed later... is that what factom is doing, btw?


yes factom is hashing for proof of existence
using the blockchain

doesn't the initial insertion/verification of the factom data into the blockchain introduce a centralized, potentially corruptible, weak point in the system?




regarding the centralized, potentially corruptible, weak point in the system that inserting data into the blockchain presents- this is potentially true if we were to take raw data - however, Factom only inserts a hash into the blockchain, not the data itself.


but the raw data from which the hash is derived can contain corruptible data.

as an example; the mountains of mortgage loan docs.  someone can insert a fraudulent doc stating your home reverts to them in 5 yrs w/o your knowledge.  no one reads all these docs.  this gets hashed and inserted to BC thus memorializing that fact.


Yes, the blockchain "proof" just proves that some statement existed at the time the transaction including that statement's digest appears in a block. So people can certainly insert whatever they want. If someone wants to claim they predicted the winner of the Superbowl in 2020, they could create a separate transaction for every team, stating that that team won, and then when 2020 rolls around, just point to the one that worked. Classic proof problem.

Also, Blockchain proof isn't storage. I think some people are misunderstanding this at the moment. If you give a bunch of documents to Factom and they hash them into the blockchain, and then they lose the documents and you don't have a copy, the digest in the blockchain is completely useless since you have no document to verify the digest against.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
Cryptoasset rankings and metrics for investors: http://onchainfx.com
dillpicklechips
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February 08, 2015, 10:21:40 PM
 #21090

someone can insert a fraudulent doc stating your home reverts to them in 5 yrs w/o your knowledge.  no one reads all these docs.  this gets hashed and inserted to BC thus memorializing that fact.
Both a fraudulent and honest document could exist in the blockchain and the fact that both are in blockchain proves without a doubt that the dishonest party is not making up lies now but in the past as well.


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justusranvier
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February 08, 2015, 10:39:14 PM
 #21091

Who controls bitcoin?
smooth
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February 08, 2015, 10:45:52 PM
 #21092


Quote
Coinbase, BitStamp, and Blockchain.info upgrade. These nodes provide a lot of the infrastructure for Bitcoin, so if they do not upgrade, Bitcoin New will be a lot less useful. However, these nodes are in it for profit, so they will tend to go where the money is. They cannot necessarily afford to wield the influence they might have at the risk of short-term losses.

He's totally wrong about that. All three of those are startup companies that exist and are funded in order to achieve a large future payoff, generally at the explicit cost of short term losses. They will do what they feel provides the best long term payoff. Avoiding short term losses is relatively to entirely unimportant to them.

That still may not be the choice of fork that he or you or I would prefer however.

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February 08, 2015, 10:56:57 PM
 #21093


If I didn't know better,  I'd think he was talking about SC's.

He made a technical error in the article; a low hashrate of a fork wouldn't extend the time between blocks. It only would make them less secure.
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February 08, 2015, 11:21:20 PM
 #21094


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Coinbase, BitStamp, and Blockchain.info upgrade. These nodes provide a lot of the infrastructure for Bitcoin, so if they do not upgrade, Bitcoin New will be a lot less useful. However, these nodes are in it for profit, so they will tend to go where the money is. They cannot necessarily afford to wield the influence they might have at the risk of short-term losses.

He's totally wrong about that. All three of those are startup companies that exist and are funded in order to achieve a large future payoff, generally at the explicit cost of short term losses. They will do what they feel provides the best long term payoff. Avoiding short term losses is relatively to entirely unimportant to them.

That still may not be the choice of fork that he or you or I would prefer however.



right.  small start ups can also be investors. 

altho generally, i think he's right.  the bigger they get, the more they are beholden to other shorter term investors in the company, to payrolls, to fixed and variable expenses, and then to IPO's and being public. 

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February 08, 2015, 11:52:07 PM
 #21095

Anyone in greece with money should be loading up on physical euro gold silver bitcoins.  Bitcoins because they are easily hidden.  In today's world without bank secrecy presumably greek govt could insist that foreign banks divulge its citizens holdings.  Tax revenue is down; looks like ppl are deferring debt payments in favor of holding.

One of the only things that Syriza & EC agree on is that tax evasion by wealthy Greeks needs to be addressed. Not sure if these evaders (all but stated as being he oligarks of greek society) would use bitcoin to 'transfer' their wealth out of traditional areas, but they could. For the regular citizens, its could be a hedge, ironically, against volatility / uncertainty.
smooth
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February 09, 2015, 12:10:23 AM
 #21096


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Coinbase, BitStamp, and Blockchain.info upgrade. These nodes provide a lot of the infrastructure for Bitcoin, so if they do not upgrade, Bitcoin New will be a lot less useful. However, these nodes are in it for profit, so they will tend to go where the money is. They cannot necessarily afford to wield the influence they might have at the risk of short-term losses.

He's totally wrong about that. All three of those are startup companies that exist and are funded in order to achieve a large future payoff, generally at the explicit cost of short term losses. They will do what they feel provides the best long term payoff. Avoiding short term losses is relatively to entirely unimportant to them.

That still may not be the choice of fork that he or you or I would prefer however.



right.  small start ups can also be investors. 

altho generally, i think he's right.  the bigger they get, the more they are beholden to other shorter term investors in the company, to payrolls, to fixed and variable expenses, and then to IPO's and being public. 

The recent Coinbase funding round was at a valuation of $400 million. There is likely at least a factor of 10 from that to where they want to be before cashing out. (Of course if things go poorly they may cash out lower or not at all.) The other companies on his list are probably valued lower.

They won't sacrifice, or even jeopardize, the longer term potential for a level of meaningful success that would make a difference to a VC portfolio to protect the tiny revenues they are getting now from transaction fees. (Again, unless they give up on the longer term potential and are looking to recover something.) Although they haven't disclosed numbers, I doubt the current transaction fees come close to supporting even the current valuation. In a sense there is nothing in way of current revenues to protect.

Long shot VC backing of companies like Coinbase is a sort of leveraged play on BTC itself. They can't really succeed without BTC going much higher than 4 billion USD total cap. So I think he's wrong in considering them distinct from investors. His whole entrepreneurs vs. investors thread makes this mistake.
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February 09, 2015, 01:10:20 AM
 #21097



While this still represents a small quantity of coins I think it is important bc I believe that these are become very low velocity coins -- that is buyer would obly pay the premium and the inconvenience of face2face if he/she is holding.
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February 09, 2015, 01:20:59 AM
 #21098

If business leaders hope to maintain broad public support for business, they must acknowledge that the purpose of the corporation is not to enrich the few, but to benefit the many. Once America’s CEOs refocus on growing their companies rather than growing their share prices, shareholder value will take care of itself and all Americans will share in the benefits of a renewed era of economic growth.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/02/kill-stock-buyback-to-save-the-american-economy/385259/
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February 09, 2015, 01:43:37 AM
 #21099

If business leaders hope to maintain broad public support for business, they must acknowledge that the purpose of the corporation is not to enrich the few, but to benefit the many. Once America’s CEOs refocus on growing their companies rather than growing their share prices, shareholder value will take care of itself and all Americans will share in the benefits of a renewed era of economic growth.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/02/kill-stock-buyback-to-save-the-american-economy/385259/
Greed trumps all.. as this emotion is engrained we are not smart enough as a species to understand that we win as a team (something that adam smith taught us).. however with some structure (blockchain) we may be forced to see the light.. maybe satoshi was fate to teach us before our own demise... the last growth after the industrial revolution that averted disaster was the internet.. so to avert a full on depression we need the next wave of technology to carry us forward.. if its not the blockchain i dont know what it is..

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February 09, 2015, 03:54:40 AM
 #21100

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/who-controls-bitcoin/
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