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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2010087 times)
Melbustus
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January 21, 2015, 08:17:59 PM
 #20481

...
I freely admit that I am more of a Keynsian than not.  Central planning and manipulation can provide longer stretches of better performance for more people.  But I think that any honest Keynsians will admit that their games are cyclic and periodic resets are necessary.  Usually marked by devolution into blatant cronyism and totalitarian nightmare as the fiat backing (the justice system) fails. 
...


Yeah, this is what's missed in a lot of Keynsian vs Austrian discussions. The counter-cyclical math *does* work, it's just that it's impossible for humanity to actually implement without the devolution you mention; thus, an "honest money" ends up being better in practice, longrun.

A misappreciation for the human factor is what draws so many genuinely bright minds to central planning. The math, they think, is elegant and works, so that's that. The realities of moral hazard and political incentives (literally) do not entire the equation.


Anyways...will address the rest of your comment when I have more time.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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Melbustus
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January 21, 2015, 08:19:26 PM
 #20482


Contains a precious quote:

Quote
Bitcoin needs millions, and then billions, of users who demand better money. The demand for Bitcoin must be strong enough that they will break the law if that’s what it takes to obtain it.


Lots of good quotes, but I liked:

Quote
A block size limit that is low enough to have a real affect on actual block sizes is the ultimate blacklist.

and

Quote
The Bitcoin network, like any other product or service in the economy, should change its production capability to respond to supply and demand.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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solex
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100 satoshis -> ISO code


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January 21, 2015, 08:25:00 PM
 #20483


Great stuff.

"Since it’s inception, Bitcoin has been operating as if there was no block size limit at all.
If this limit is kept in place, then suddenly Bitcoin will be in uncharted economic territory."


Further, since Core Dev is totally focused on making safe changes and testing as much as possible, allowing the block limit to be hit is the antithesis of their development approach. Once the limit is hit the event becomes the equivalent of foisting a massive untested change onto the entire network at once. The height of lunacy.

cypherdoc
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January 21, 2015, 08:26:25 PM
 #20484


Contains a precious quote:

Quote
Bitcoin needs millions, and then billions, of users who demand better money. The demand for Bitcoin must be strong enough that they will break the law if that’s what it takes to obtain it.

my favorite too
tvbcof
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January 21, 2015, 08:27:12 PM
 #20485


I freely admit that I am more of a Keynsian than not.  Central planning and manipulation can provide longer stretches of better performance for more people. 

Here in Switzerland we have less central planning but 'longer stretches of better performance for more people'.

'less' is just as much a centrally planned decision as anything, and often the best one.  Particularly if one positions themselves to exploit a vacuum created by the rest of the world.  Some Caribbean nations do the same thing I believe.  But when the vacuum vanishes...


Zarathustra
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January 21, 2015, 08:48:45 PM
 #20486


I freely admit that I am more of a Keynsian than not.  Central planning and manipulation can provide longer stretches of better performance for more people. 

Here in Switzerland we have less central planning but 'longer stretches of better performance for more people'.

'less' is just as much a centrally planned decision as anything, and often the best one.  Particularly if one positions themselves to exploit a vacuum created by the rest of the world.  Some Caribbean nations do the same thing I believe.  But when the vacuum vanishes...


No, less is not just as much, and Switzerland is not in the same position as 'some caribbean nations'. Switzerland is a high tech export machine with a huge current account surplus.
tvbcof
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January 21, 2015, 09:02:29 PM
 #20487


I freely admit that I am more of a Keynsian than not.  Central planning and manipulation can provide longer stretches of better performance for more people. 

Here in Switzerland we have less central planning but 'longer stretches of better performance for more people'.

'less' is just as much a centrally planned decision as anything, and often the best one.  Particularly if one positions themselves to exploit a vacuum created by the rest of the world.  Some Caribbean nations do the same thing I believe.  But when the vacuum vanishes...

No, less is not just as much, and Switzerland is not in the same position as 'some caribbean nations'. Switzerland is a high tech export machine with a huge current account surplus.

I'd say Switzerland achieve 'longer stretches of better performance for more people' mainly by being weaselly, exploitative, and conniving on the international stage (aka, neutral.)  Sweden even worse by being pathetic lick-spittle whenever it's handy.  I'm glad my relatives several generations ago hauled ass out of both of those places even if it has resulted in some periodic hardships for their descendants.


zanzibar
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January 23, 2015, 05:19:32 AM
 #20488

I blacked out, what the hell happened!
explorer
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January 23, 2015, 06:21:30 AM
 #20489

I blacked out, what the hell happened!

The block size issue was resolved and implemented seamlessly.  It was boring, don't worry.
solex
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100 satoshis -> ISO code


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January 23, 2015, 06:48:27 AM
 #20490

I blacked out, what the hell happened!

The block size issue was resolved and implemented seamlessly.  It was boring, don't worry.

Yippee! Next stop, the moon.


Zarathustra
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January 23, 2015, 08:25:23 AM
 #20491


I freely admit that I am more of a Keynsian than not.  Central planning and manipulation can provide longer stretches of better performance for more people.  

Here in Switzerland we have less central planning but 'longer stretches of better performance for more people'.

'less' is just as much a centrally planned decision as anything, and often the best one.  Particularly if one positions themselves to exploit a vacuum created by the rest of the world.  Some Caribbean nations do the same thing I believe.  But when the vacuum vanishes...

No, less is not just as much, and Switzerland is not in the same position as 'some caribbean nations'. Switzerland is a high tech export machine with a huge current account surplus.

I'd say Switzerland achieve 'longer stretches of better performance for more people' mainly by being weaselly, exploitative, and conniving on the international stage (aka, neutral.)  Sweden even worse by being pathetic lick-spittle whenever it's handy.  I'm glad my relatives several generations ago hauled ass out of both of those places even if it has resulted in some periodic hardships for their descendants.


Exploiting the planet and the creature. That's Civilization (patriarchy) from the very beginning (10'000 years ago). At least in Switzerland we (the people) are able to reverse any decision of the state terrorists (politicians). This is not as good as anarchy, but better than the feudalism in the rest of the civilized world.
picolo
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🌟ATLANT ICO 24hr LEFT🌟


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January 23, 2015, 09:04:42 AM
 #20492

I blacked out, what the hell happened!

Gold is up and Bitcoin has been down but is recovering.

Erdogan
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January 23, 2015, 10:32:21 AM
 #20493

This is the way to go at the current level of adoption.

Local companies in different countries partner with each other, no need to establish a supernational umbrella company. Relatively low risk. The two sides can be smaller, in case the dominators come in and destroy the business.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitspark-rolls-remittance-service-indonesia/

"The process allows customers to deposit and withdraw cash, without touching bitcoin, while Bitspark and Artabit transact in the cryptocurrency. In the Philippines, Bitspark works with bitcoin exchange Rebit."

cypherdoc
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January 23, 2015, 12:30:40 PM
 #20494

This is the way to go at the current level of adoption.

Local companies in different countries partner with each other, no need to establish a supernational umbrella company. Relatively low risk. The two sides can be smaller, in case the dominators come in and destroy the business.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitspark-rolls-remittance-service-indonesia/

"The process allows customers to deposit and withdraw cash, without touching bitcoin, while Bitspark and Artabit transact in the cryptocurrency. In the Philippines, Bitspark works with bitcoin exchange Rebit."

Yeah, that really is bullish as hell.

Great stuff going on in that corridor of the world.
cypherdoc
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January 23, 2015, 12:32:10 PM
 #20495

Got half my gold short position back on yesterday at 1307 or 6  equivalent for DZZ.
sickpig
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January 23, 2015, 02:33:15 PM
 #20496

Gold, Bitcoin & the US Dollar amid a Global Economic Slowdown

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113348/gold-bitcoin-the-us-dollar-amid-a-global-economic-slowdown

first time I'm not OT in a very long while Tongue

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
NewLiberty
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January 23, 2015, 03:41:52 PM
 #20497

Got half my gold short position back on yesterday at 1307 or 6  equivalent for DZZ.
Congrats on a successful trade.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
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cypherdoc
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January 23, 2015, 04:08:53 PM
 #20498

Got half my gold short position back on yesterday at 1307 or 6  equivalent for DZZ.
Congrats on a successful trade.

Way too early for that conclusion. Besides I still need to get the other half on Wink

Most tops and bottoms get retested so i wasn't  too upset missing the first test of 1307. The real question is whether we'll get a longer term retest.  And then  I'll put the other half on. 
cypherdoc
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January 23, 2015, 04:14:41 PM
 #20499

Gold, Bitcoin & the US Dollar amid a Global Economic Slowdown

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113348/gold-bitcoin-the-us-dollar-amid-a-global-economic-slowdown

first time I'm not OT in a very long while Tongue

This part is bullshit:

"Under this backdrop, it is easy to see why the USD is surging as the US has stopped QE and indicated a rate hike at some point this year. The US is perceived to have the strongest economy in the world."

Everyone seems to forget the Fed just finished around $4T  in QE over 6 years. CB's simply do a Round Robin when  it comes to QE which creates am artificial "stability" in cross rate, when in fact, they're all devaluing at different intervals.  

This is why they are all so worried about Bitcoin and rightfully so.
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January 23, 2015, 04:20:55 PM
 #20500

This is the way to go at the current level of adoption.

Local companies in different countries partner with each other, no need to establish a supernational umbrella company. Relatively low risk. The two sides can be smaller, in case the dominators come in and destroy the business.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitspark-rolls-remittance-service-indonesia/

"The process allows customers to deposit and withdraw cash, without touching bitcoin, while Bitspark and Artabit transact in the cryptocurrency. In the Philippines, Bitspark works with bitcoin exchange Rebit."

Yeah, that really is bullish as hell.

Great stuff going on in that corridor of the world.

Agree.  Finally people seem to be wising up to the fact that using Bitcoin for the masses to touch (try to) and hold (try to) and use for buying  trinkets is the worst idea ever.  People who have a half a clue as to what they are doing using Bitcoin as and reserve and proxy for more encumbered currencies is where the sustainable value comes from.  That is, leveraging it's advantages over gold.

Now all we need is sidechains to have the best of both worlds.  The herds will have the same levels of security without paying usurious rates to a middle-man (and being flat out ripped of by him half the time) and the solution won't be swamped and sunk under the weight of a sea of a billion retards.


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