Bitcoin Forum
July 23, 2017, 06:44:51 AM *
News: Due to BIP91, it would starting now be prudent to require 5 times more confirmations than usual before trusting transactions.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

Pages: « 1 ... 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 [1023] 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 ... 1558 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1934781 times)
justusranvier
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400



View Profile WWW
January 20, 2015, 04:41:29 PM
 #20441

What exactly does "transparency to pricing" mean?
All Your Bitcoin Are Belong To Banksters
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1500792291
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1500792291

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1500792291
Reply with quote  #2

1500792291
Report to moderator
1500792291
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1500792291

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1500792291
Reply with quote  #2

1500792291
Report to moderator
hdbuck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260



View Profile
January 20, 2015, 04:48:18 PM
 #20442

What exactly does "transparency to pricing" mean?
All Your Bitcoin Are Belong To Banksters

good luck for them putting their hands on my private keys.
Bagatell
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 721



View Profile
January 20, 2015, 05:12:47 PM
 #20443

What exactly does "transparency to pricing" mean?
All Your Bitcoin Are Belong To Banksters

Central or other?

"Endgame for central bankers"

Steen Jakobsen Steen Jakobsen
Chief Economist & CIO / Saxo Bank

https://www.tradingfloor.com/posts/macro-digest-endgame-for-central-bankers-3294071
lebing
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1288

Enabling the maximal migration


View Profile
January 20, 2015, 05:20:06 PM
 #20444

What exactly does "transparency to pricing" mean?
All Your Bitcoin Are Belong To Banksters

good luck for them putting their hands on my private keys.

They don't want yours. They already got their hands on hundreds of thousands of cheap coins during the last month. We know what comes next.

Bro, do you even blockchain?
-E Voorhees
tvbcof
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212


View Profile
January 20, 2015, 06:13:16 PM
 #20445


I agree with you, but that is the future, not today's reality. Mining will one day be done almost entirely by datacenters. You may not know exactly where they are, but they will be well protected by very large guns. Bitcoin doesn't need jurisdictions because you know you can't trust anyone, you can only trust the protocol and how it is engineered to balance mathematical security and networking limitations. If a major mining firm is going to overtly attack the network, it will destroy their investment. If they attack an individual, then it is best that you remain as anonymous as possible.

And if they attack you because you are anonymous?  That doesn't actually seem like it should be a hugely challenging technical problem if there was sufficient pressure to do it (such as the forfeiture ones mining gear for example.)

If you are anonymous, they wouldn't know about your mining gear now, would they? Cancelling an anonymous payment might be a hospital bill for a child with cancer. That would not bode well for the miner that signed that block.

Anonymity for users (against miners) and anonymity for miners (against regulators) are two different things.  Both are interesting but they are far from interchangeable.

In both cases, knowing with some precision what is happening on the network is quite straightforward.  The protocol makes no efforts to be discrete.  Yes, it would be fairly trivial to encapsulate it but endoints don't grow on trees and would add notably to the complexity and expense of system design.  And only solves certain parts of the theoretically possible problems.

If "forget about anonymity" then can you tell me what it is about Bitcoin that makes it particularly worth supporting or using.

Who are you quoting? I presume it is Mr. Strawman. Bitcoin is pseudonymous. Anonymity is a social construct. It's not part of the protocol, but how it is used.

Clearly this is no strawman for those who know what a strawman actually is.  It's an effort to save a go-around for efficiency reasons.  See the "If"?  Wanna answer the question?

My answer would be 'counter-party risk protection' but to say the truth there would be so little else that I would pretty much be forced to move on to more promising pastures (which also provided counter-party risk protection as a minimum.)

Your strawman attempt at leaving wiggle room is in vain. You cannot have counter-party without trust in an authority. You Sir, are a Statist.

Asserting a strawman where it doens't exists then excusing yourself from a losing argument (or one which has exceeded your capabilities) is as old as the hills.  It pre-dates the http protocol at least and I know this for a fact.


tvbcof
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212


View Profile
January 20, 2015, 06:28:11 PM
 #20446

more promising pastures (which also provided counter-party risk protection as a minimum.)

Which ones are those?

I don't know of any.


I don't either.  I've been remiss in studying alts because there are just so fucking many of them.

My strong sense is that NONE of them are really biting off the problems that are important to me.  Everyone seems to be happy to nestle in the gentle bosom of big brother to offer protection of freedom on the global internet.  The concept that restrictions on paths, protocols, etc might be possible seems to be rejected out of hand as a wild conspiracy and not worth designing around...even as Obama and Camaroon agree that their boys should not be locked out of one's cell phone.  It boggles the mind...then I remember how tedious and difficult it is to design systems around fewer resources than currently exist.  No fun at all (though I always enjoyed it but I'm an odd-ball) and not the best way to suck in VC money or impress adolescent marks in the ecosystem.

I'm sure that interests would shift rapidly upon attack...though maybe not rapidly enough if the attack is done correctly (that is, in a boiling frog approach.)


Trolfi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 72

Learning from Jorge


View Profile
January 20, 2015, 07:33:50 PM
 #20447

But you are right, trying to argue a technical discussion here is a terrible waste of time.

*Thumps chest vigorously*  

rocks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1153


View Profile
January 20, 2015, 08:24:45 PM
 #20448

Related to the Greed discussion earlier.

Former CEO of Citibank personally invested in Coinbase's latest $75M raise.
http://dcmagnates.com/coinbase-secures-record-75-million-investment-led-by-dfj/

Slowly but surely Bitcoin is creeping into the halls of those in power. Unlike with most new constructs where most of us are blocked by regulation from participating since we are not "accredited investors", with Bitcoin we can invest directly and in many cases front run wall street.
sickpig
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176


View Profile
January 20, 2015, 08:27:01 PM
 #20449

Latest news from gavin experimenting on max block size increases:

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/557620205443350529

He's being doing a pretty good job imho, particulary if you take into account also the previous post where he tested a version of bitcoin core that could handle a 20MB max block size:

http://gavintech.blogspot.it/2015/01/looking-before-scaling-up-leap.html

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
tvbcof
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212


View Profile
January 20, 2015, 08:36:55 PM
 #20450

Latest news from gavin experimenting on max block size increases:

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/557620205443350529

He's being doing a pretty good job imho, particulary if you take into account also the previous post where he tested a version of bitcoin core that could handle a 20MB max block size:

http://gavintech.blogspot.it/2015/01/looking-before-scaling-up-leap.html

A more appropriate title would in my opinion be 'Leap before anyone looks.'

I've always considered Gavin a fairly honorable dude, especially by the ecosystem standards, but one still has to watch the pea when reading what he writes.  Especially when he talks UTXO.

 - edit: emphasis, link

stellar69
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196


View Profile
January 20, 2015, 08:39:14 PM
 #20451

Latest news from gavin experimenting on max block size increases:

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/557620205443350529

He's being doing a pretty good job imho, particulary if you take into account also the previous post where he tested a version of bitcoin core that could handle a 20MB max block size:

http://gavintech.blogspot.it/2015/01/looking-before-scaling-up-leap.html
Was just wondering that where are you taking this discussion?
sickpig
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176


View Profile
January 20, 2015, 08:51:24 PM
 #20452

Latest news from gavin experimenting on max block size increases:

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/557620205443350529

He's being doing a pretty good job imho, particulary if you take into account also the previous post where he tested a version of bitcoin core that could handle a 20MB max block size:

http://gavintech.blogspot.it/2015/01/looking-before-scaling-up-leap.html
Was just wondering that where are you taking this discussion?

Sorry I'm not a native english speaker and I'm not sure about the meaning of what you said.

Any chance you're  saying that the content of my post is OT?

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
ssmc2
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 994


View Profile
January 20, 2015, 09:22:39 PM
 #20453

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-powered-crowdfunding-app-lighthouse-launches-open-beta/

More awesome news today.
sickpig
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176


View Profile
January 20, 2015, 09:26:54 PM
 #20454

Peter Todd talking about incentives, bitcoin mining and sidechains at TNABC :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCACPwpYlIY&lt=490

Quote
I show up [a slide about] Blockstream as an example, they're working on sidechains.
Many aspects of SC, I think, are quite good...

... merge mined SC, to make a long story short, involves mining in a very
specific way, indeed add a lot of incentives to mining, and already mining
it's kind of dodgy whether or not it works, so by adding more complexity
to the incentive.. can you reason about it? I'm not sure...

ps @stellar69 just in case, sorry for the OT.

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
lunarboy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 544



View Profile
January 20, 2015, 10:08:51 PM
 #20455

Don't think anything relevant is OT in this thread but just in case.

from today
Quote
gold's best 7-day run since Aug 2011 (shifting to 5-month highs)
  Wink
smooth
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1484



View Profile
January 20, 2015, 10:11:55 PM
 #20456

Don't think anything relevant is OT in this thread but just in case.

from today
Quote
gold's best 7-day run since Aug 2011 (shifting to 5-month highs)
   Wink

Only gold collapsing is on topic, and only bitcoin going UP.

That's why traffic on this thread dried up a year or so ago.
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
January 21, 2015, 01:37:04 AM
 #20457

What exactly does "transparency to pricing" mean?
All Your Bitcoin Are Belong To Banksters

good luck for them putting their hands on my private keys.

They don't want yours. They already got their hands on hundreds of thousands of cheap coins during the last month. We know what comes next.

yes we do
inca
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1148


View Profile
January 21, 2015, 01:41:14 AM
 #20458

What exactly does "transparency to pricing" mean?
All Your Bitcoin Are Belong To Banksters

good luck for them putting their hands on my private keys.

They don't want yours. They already got their hands on hundreds of thousands of cheap coins during the last month. We know what comes next.

yes we do

Indeed. Smiley
Melbustus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1596



View Profile
January 21, 2015, 01:52:57 AM
 #20459

more promising pastures (which also provided counter-party risk protection as a minimum.)

Which ones are those?

I don't know of any.


I don't either.  I've been remiss in studying alts because there are just so fucking many of them.

My strong sense is that NONE of them are really biting off the problems that are important to me. 
...


That's very likely true. The alts that have the most traction are probably Ripple and Ethereum (based on pre-release hype, obv). Ripple weakens decentralization (and is 100% pre-mined), so is really only interesting as a banking fintech tech-startup play (which is where it's getting traction), not a store of value.

Ethereum adds a ton of questionable complexity. Does not seem up your alley.

Smooth might have a thing or two to say about Monero, though, which supports a pure-anon niche that bitcoin never will.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
dnaleor
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414


Want privacy? Use Monero!


View Profile
January 21, 2015, 02:09:20 AM
 #20460

I had a discussion with a well known flemish professor in monetary economics through Twitter after he made fun of Bitcoin:
https://twitter.com/GertPeersman/status/555776517599682560

I replied that the volatility will become lower when adoption grows (S-curve) and that the current low liquidity compared to large currencies creates the volatility.

I really think his arguments are stupid, but I never heard of the "macroeconomic price level indeterminacy" (and I have a master in economics and had a course by this professor)
some of his tweets, translated to english:

"The problem is not the volatility in the exchange rate, but the macroeconomic price level indeterminacy"
"in essence, the macro price level and inflation are not uniquely determined (sunspot equilibria) f.e. in bitcoin"
"ask yourself the question: if wage is 100 BTC and price of a beer is 0,1 BTC is an equilibrium, why isn't 1000 BTC and 1 BTC not an equilibrium?"

I replied that this is also an issue for the EUR. But liquidity is a lot higher in the EUR => lower voilatility

He replied that "the expected monetary and budgetary policy is key in the difference between BTC and EUR"
"liquidity is irrelivant: bitcoin is infinitesimal divisible and velocity of money is between 0 and infinity"

At this point I kinda get what he was aiming at.Tthe EUR is superior (in his opinion) because it has a policy. Thats why I replied:
"BTC is indeed infinitesimal divisible , but has limited supply. EUR is not infinitesimal divisible , but can be printed at will by the ECB"

he answered with

"limited supply is NO guarantee that hyperinflation doesn't occur. This is explained by the literature about price indeterminacy"
(link in dutch if you don't believe me he said that: https://twitter.com/GertPeersman/status/557311020965064704)

I answered that the hoarding of the currency creates the store of value function for the coin and that the infinitesimal divisible nature is needed because BTC has a deflationary monetary "policy".
I also asked him if he meant that in his view, a currency derives his value from friction in payment mechanism in stead of store of value function.
He didn't reply anymore...


***

Conclusion: I think he just denies that fact that a free market can (against his beliefs) allocate value towards a currency that has no "intrinsic value" (and I hate to use that word, because I don't agree with that. Gold has no "intrinsic" vale nor the EUR)
Or am I missing something here?

I just want to understand what he is thinking Tongue
(I'm not doubting the vale of BTC)

thoughts?


edit: feel free to respond to him on twitter Tongue


Searching for a trusted escrow service? Check my trust. I use a Trezor device for my escrow services, so your coins are safe. Fee: 0.5% or 0.05 BTC, whichever is lower
I support the largest public transparent p2p ledger Bitcoin (16TwXyEmpz7xKHbyVufZECXGFmUH9wHUyW) and the best private fungible digital cash Monero (dnaleor.weuse.cash)
Cetere mi opinias ke Dasho estas detruenda.     |     1Credit - Fair emission, better than BTC > CLCqECaYpCahgKRsXJiVBzgsiz57ZHfr4u
Pages: « 1 ... 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 [1023] 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 ... 1558 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!