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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2013787 times)
tvbcof
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January 19, 2015, 07:03:24 PM
 #20341


Not to me it isn't.

All governments are effectively hired managers of people-farming operations as I see it.  The bureaucracies they form are effectively the labor hired to work the farm.  Management class folks get to move up the chain into a farm ownership role sometimes (watch what happens to Obama when his work is done) while the hired labor are not all that different from the stock they work though they are allowed to take some limited stock for their own use in most implementations.

My hope for Bitcoin is that it tears some holes in the fences and allows some of the herd to escape.  Of course most of the herd would stand in the pasture and stare at the hole rather than make a break for it.  What can you do?


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cypherdoc
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January 19, 2015, 07:34:28 PM
 #20342


Not to me it isn't.

All governments are effectively hired managers of people-farming operations as I see it.  The bureaucracies they form are effectively the labor hired to work the farm.  Management class folks get to move up the chain into a farm ownership role sometimes (watch what happens to Obama when his work is done) while the hired labor are not all that different from the stock they work though they are allowed to take some limited stock for their own use in most implementations.

My hope for Bitcoin is that it tears some holes in the fences and allows some of the herd to escape.  Of course most of the herd would stand in the pasture and stare at the hole rather than make a break for it.  What can you do?



it's great in the sense that gvts are the linchpins of Bitcoin resistance, as they have the most to lose and have the power to make life tough for Bitcoin.  the more gvts disagree on their policies towards Bitcoin, the better chance it has to survive and thrive.
sickpig
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January 19, 2015, 07:45:28 PM
 #20343

also doesn't explain the Peter Todd debate reference from someone.

It seems I've missed this one. Care to share a pointer?

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
sickpig
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January 19, 2015, 07:52:05 PM
 #20344


p.s. you do have a big screen @cypher, don't you? Smiley



no, i use a laptop.

it's all about being detail oriented and an insatiable thirst for obtaining as much knowledge as possible to get a good sense of the Big Picture.  unlike tvbcof, and others, who come here to vomit on this thread once in a while after returning from the fields from humping little dogs (he is a little dog afterall).

I've no doubt about your thirst for knowledge, I was referring to your habit of posting hi-res screenshots without resizing or using img tag "with" property, though Smiley

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
cypherdoc
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January 19, 2015, 08:11:49 PM
 #20345

also doesn't explain the Peter Todd debate reference from someone.

It seems I've missed this one. Care to share a pointer?

Go back over the last few days of posts.
tvbcof
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January 19, 2015, 08:49:39 PM
 #20346

also doesn't explain the Peter Todd debate reference from someone.

It seems I've missed this one. Care to share a pointer?

Go back over the last few days of posts.

All I remember is some tweet from a guy who is threatened by the existence of Blockstream (and many in the rapidly expanding ecosystem are.)


zanzibar
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January 19, 2015, 09:17:08 PM
 #20347

also doesn't explain the Peter Todd debate reference from someone.

It seems I've missed this one. Care to share a pointer?

Go back over the last few days of posts.

All I remember is some tweet from a guy who is threatened by the existence of Blockstream (and many in the rapidly expanding ecosystem are.)


That was me who posted, here is the article for reference:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113314/last-minute-tnabc-changes-garza-cancels-robot-roger-ver-and-more
tvbcof
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January 19, 2015, 09:28:54 PM
 #20348

also doesn't explain the Peter Todd debate reference from someone.

It seems I've missed this one. Care to share a pointer?

Go back over the last few days of posts.

All I remember is some tweet from a guy who is threatened by the existence of Blockstream (and many in the rapidly expanding ecosystem are.)


That was me who posted, here is the article for reference:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113314/last-minute-tnabc-changes-garza-cancels-robot-roger-ver-and-more

Quote from: above linked story
by Ian DeMartino @ 2015-01-16 10:47 PM
...
There was a planned debate between Blockstream's Adam Back and Bitcoin Core Developer Peter Todd, but Back reportedly canceled just before this article went to press. It is unclear why, and we are attempting to reach out to him for comment.  ...

More clear now I guess.  In general, after countless blatant pump-for-hire stories, I rate the reliability of many of these crypto-rags to be a step below an off-hand tweet from some random wanker.


cypherdoc
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January 19, 2015, 10:00:53 PM
 #20349

i made a point some time ago that if Bitcoin were to become a global reserve currency, much like gold, due to maintaining the 1MB block size, all Bitcoin 2.0 projects trying to ride the MC would be eliminated due to high tx costs.  in that case, the blockchain would only be applicable to Bitcoin as Money:

https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/557287567121346560
justusranvier
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January 19, 2015, 10:04:30 PM
 #20350

i made a point some time ago that if Bitcoin were to become a global reserve currency, much like gold, due to maintaining the 1MB block size, all Bitcoin 2.0 projects trying to ride the MC would be eliminated due to high tx costs.  in that case, the blockchain would only be applicable to Bitcoin as Money:
Bitcoin can't be money with a capped transaction rate.

Gold only maintains purchasing power due to being subsidized by central banks - there's no such thing as intrinsic value for a currency.

If those transaction rate limits are hit and the situation isn't fixed, then Bitcoin will disappear.
JorgeStolfi
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January 19, 2015, 10:34:19 PM
 #20351

Bitcoin can't be money with a capped transaction rate.
Gold only maintains purchasing power due to being subsidized by central banks - there's no such thing as intrinsic value for a currency.
If those transaction rate limits are hit and the situation isn't fixed, then Bitcoin will disappear.

The transaction rate limits are fixable.  The real problem is the inevitable centralization of mining.  It seems that no one knows how to fix that.  Bitcoin with centralized mining does not make any sense.

Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
bassclef
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January 19, 2015, 10:36:25 PM
 #20352

i made a point some time ago that if Bitcoin were to become a global reserve currency, much like gold, due to maintaining the 1MB block size, all Bitcoin 2.0 projects trying to ride the MC would be eliminated due to high tx costs.  in that case, the blockchain would only be applicable to Bitcoin as Money:
Bitcoin can't be money with a capped transaction rate.

Gold only maintains purchasing power due to being subsidized by central banks - there's no such thing as intrinsic value for a currency.

If those transaction rate limits are hit and the situation isn't fixed, then Bitcoin will disappear.

I think Gavin has been working on a solution, where block limit grows over time, using the testnet. Which got me thinking--the fact that we have a testnet is pretty cool in itself--if only central banks had one to test interest rate adjustments!
justusranvier
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January 19, 2015, 10:37:44 PM
 #20353

The real problem is the inevitable centralization of mining.
Year after year, the number of active mining pools go up.

Year after year, concern trolls talk about the "inevitable centralization" of mining.
JorgeStolfi
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January 19, 2015, 10:53:07 PM
 #20354

The real problem is the inevitable centralization of mining.
Year after year, the number of active mining pools go up.

Year after year, concern trolls talk about the "inevitable centralization" of mining.

And year after year the bitcoin faithful bury their head in the sand, "if we don't worry about it, it is not a problem".

Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
sickpig
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January 19, 2015, 11:00:57 PM
 #20355

also doesn't explain the Peter Todd debate reference from someone.

It seems I've missed this one. Care to share a pointer?

Go back over the last few days of posts.

All I remember is some tweet from a guy who is threatened by the existence of Blockstream (and many in the rapidly expanding ecosystem are.)


That was me who posted, here is the article for reference:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113314/last-minute-tnabc-changes-garza-cancels-robot-roger-ver-and-more

Thanks for the link, appreciated.

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
Spaceman_Spiff
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January 19, 2015, 11:03:04 PM
 #20356

The real problem is the inevitable centralization of mining.
Year after year, the number of active mining pools go up.

Year after year, concern trolls talk about the "inevitable centralization" of mining.

And year after year the bitcoin faithful bury their head in the sand, "if we don't worry about it, it is not a problem".

I have wondered if several decades from now, governments might not end up securing the blockchain by goverment-funded mining in order to protect the economy, property records etc. from evil 51% attacks by other nations or terrorist groups.  I might be dreaming of unicorns and rainbows though....
cypherdoc
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January 19, 2015, 11:08:58 PM
 #20357

The real problem is the inevitable centralization of mining.
Year after year, the number of active mining pools go up.

Year after year, concern trolls talk about the "inevitable centralization" of mining.

And year after year the bitcoin faithful bury their head in the sand, "if we don't worry about it, it is not a problem".

I have wondered if several decades from now, governments might not end up securing the blockchain by goverment-funded mining in order to protect the economy, property records etc. from evil 51% attacks by terrorist groups or other nations.  I might be dreaming of unicorns and rainbows though....

i keep thinking of that great article by Stefan Thomas way back in the first issue of Bitcoin Magazine May 2012 where he writes a fictitious article about foreign state sponsored blockchain 51% attack with an alert US gvt defense mechanism in place that springs into action.  it's a great article. 
cypherdoc
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January 19, 2015, 11:17:02 PM
 #20358

with confidence measures like this, who needs enemies?

Brazil’s government will raise taxes on fuel, imports, credit and cosmetics as part of efforts to restore confidence in its fiscal discipline, Finance Minister Joaquim Levy said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-19/brazil-raises-taxes-by-7-5-billion-to-improve-confidence.html
Trolfi
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January 19, 2015, 11:31:31 PM
 #20359

The real problem is the inevitable centralization of mining. Year after year, the number of active mining pools go up.

Today's hashrate distribution:  F2Pool 20% + AntPool 12% + GHash.IO 10% = 42% of the network. Unknown miners: 30%.

It only would take for a fraction of those "unknown" miners to collude with the three leading pools (assuming they are indeed separate entities) in order to attack the blockchain.

Very concerned about the long-term viability of this experiment.

Very concerned.
cypherdoc
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January 19, 2015, 11:32:52 PM
 #20360

nice advertising:

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