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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1995684 times)
tabnloz
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February 03, 2015, 10:06:26 AM
 #20961

In the throes of currency wars, priced in almost everything but USD, gold has increased markedly in the last 6 months. Check it out in Yen, Ruble, Eur, Aud, Cad. Same effect has mitigated the decline in bitcoin prices. Outside of any market string pulling (paper market in GLD, whaleclubs in btc) comparative strength of the USD has been a killer.
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iCEBREAKER
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February 03, 2015, 10:41:43 AM
 #20962

The people who really have my respect are those like Gavin and Garzik who gave away Bitcoin as a means of jump-starting things.

Faucets and charity (esp. the FOSS coding) are all well and good, but what about us chimp chumps who spent our early BTC on goods and services?

IMO, increasing velocity/distribution by rewarding actual use cases did more to bootstrap the crypto-economy than sprinkling about proof-of-concepts.  With only philanthropists and hoarders participating, we'd have never gotten this moon rocket off the ground!

I laugh at your overpriced Ramen!
http://bitmunchies.com/index.php?cPath=29_22

Seriously? Theres a website selling ramen noodles for btc?

Sigh, I guess spending $5 coins pretty much counts as giving them away.   Cry

 Grin


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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cypherdoc
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February 03, 2015, 04:22:11 PM
 #20963

like i said:



i'm really liking this:



NotLambchop
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February 03, 2015, 04:24:51 PM
 #20964

if anything, the massive attempts of clowns like traderCJ, tvbcof, and the Not* brother trolls to discredit me tells me we are still very early on in the game.  they are how you tell we are NOT in a bubble.  the bearish sentiment has become overconfident.  that combined with over a year long pullback that can't take us consistently below 200 is a very good sign for Bitcoin bulls...

$200?  A year and a half ago I was promised $300,000 by your fellow nutter rpietila...
Oh well, expectations lowered Sad
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February 03, 2015, 04:39:16 PM
 #20965

Ignore the naysayers. .. it's not their capital on the line.

                                 
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thezerg
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February 03, 2015, 05:09:11 PM
 #20966

Starting back in 2011, a chimp could have become a millionaire, let alone a human.

you have no idea what you're talking about, not being anywhere around here during that time.  sentiment was WAY worse and this forum was crawling with a majority of trolls.  in fact, it was so bad that i started my first 2 threads in this Spec forum in an attempt to counteract the spiral down in sentiment.

Warning: How many of you Bears have ever been a victim of a Short Squeeze?

How many of you have been Zhoutonged?

those threads are filled with bear venom.  the risk of investing back then was MUCH higher than it is now.  why?  b/c we were so much closer to zero and total failure.  when it broke below 2 to 1.98, the large final capitulatory downstroke was completed as bears and bulls alike vomited up their last units.  we're nowhere close to that after a downturn over 3x as long.

200 is the new 2 (and all you bears should keep in mind that that's 100x return in 3 years)
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February 03, 2015, 05:21:30 PM
 #20967

Ignore the naysayers. .. it's not their capital on the line.

I just continue to be floored by the growth in the ecosystem. Two years ago our only options to acquire bitcoin were home mining or sending money to a flacky website in Japan through Dwolla which limited transfer sizes. Today there are plenty of professional options integrated directly with my bank accounts. It feels like a night and day difference. And this growth in infrastructure continues to accelerate, IMHO faster than any startup ecosystem I've seen before.

The key is to ignore the naysayers who focus on the price. The price in the near-term is immaterial. Ecosystem and infrastructure are all that matter at this stage.

If the naysayers start to focus on bashing the ecosystem and infrastructure build-out (or lack of) I'll gladly listen because that is what matters.
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February 03, 2015, 05:41:34 PM
 #20968

^Price is a valid indicator only when it's high, when it tanks it becomes irrelevant Roll Eyes

The "price" of money is its buying power, and [arguably] that's pretty important.
You now can buy ~1/4 of the stuff you used to be able to buy with your "money" a year ago.
Your "money" was debased by roughly 75%.

Please take this moment to give yourselves a big hand for this major accomplishment.
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February 03, 2015, 05:46:44 PM
 #20969

You can catch up with people who discovered bitcoin two years ago. Same risk - you venture more, but the risk per dollar is considerably less than back then.

1. Do it now, don't wait until the price is 600 or 1200 or whatever. Now is the time.

2. Risk 10 times more than the 2013'ers did risk. Either place a larger fraction of your portfolio in bitcoins, or take up a loan, or trade on margin.

You don't need to be grumpy. The risk is smaller. Many did not enter in 2013, even knowing about bitcoin. They did not take the risk. Those who did, deserve what they have.


Edit: Trading on margin might not be too smart. You don't have control.


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February 03, 2015, 06:14:46 PM
 #20970

Starting back in 2011, a chimp could have become a millionaire, let alone a human.

you have no idea what you're talking about, not being anywhere around here during that time.  sentiment was WAY worse and this forum was crawling with a majority of trolls.  in fact, it was so bad that i started my first 2 threads in this Spec forum in an attempt to counteract the spiral down in sentiment.

Warning: How many of you Bears have ever been a victim of a Short Squeeze?

How many of you have been Zhoutonged?

those threads are filled with bear venom.  the risk of investing back then was MUCH higher than it is now.  why?  b/c we were so much closer to zero and total failure.  when it broke below 2 to 1.98, the large final capitulatory downstroke was completed as bears and bulls alike vomited up their last units.  we're nowhere close to that after a downturn over 3x as long.

200 is the new 2 (and all you bears should keep in mind that that's 100x return in 3 years)

precisely
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February 03, 2015, 06:18:48 PM
 #20971

Ignore the naysayers. .. it's not their capital on the line.

I just continue to be floored by the growth in the ecosystem. Two years ago our only options to acquire bitcoin were home mining or sending money to a flacky website in Japan through Dwolla which limited transfer sizes. Today there are plenty of professional options integrated directly with my bank accounts. It feels like a night and day difference. And this growth in infrastructure continues to accelerate, IMHO faster than any startup ecosystem I've seen before.

The key is to ignore the naysayers who focus on the price. The price in the near-term is immaterial. Ecosystem and infrastructure are all that matter at this stage.

If the naysayers start to focus on bashing the ecosystem and infrastructure build-out (or lack of) I'll gladly listen because that is what matters.

Exactly. All of these people saying "Oh, but they're not investing in bitcoin/why aren't they buying".  Roll Eyes  You don't think that once the necessary groundwork is laid that all of these investors won't take us where we need to be? Lol
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February 03, 2015, 06:40:06 PM
 #20972

...You don't think that once the necessary groundwork is laid that all of these investors won't take us where we need to be? Lol

How is it the price keeps tanking with such great "groundwork" in place???  Why teh inverse correlation?
A guy from the internet once told me increasing demand on a limited-supply asset (such as BTCeanie BTCabies Bitcoin) should drive the price up, was I lied to???
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February 03, 2015, 07:59:24 PM
 #20973

Claiming bitcoin wont go sub200 ever is just silly, at best, and kinda discredit the whole thread.

Non inultus premor
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February 03, 2015, 08:55:41 PM
 #20974

Ignore the naysayers. .. it's not their capital on the line.

I just continue to be floored by the growth in the ecosystem. Two years ago our only options to acquire bitcoin were home mining or sending money to a flacky website in Japan through Dwolla which limited transfer sizes. Today there are plenty of professional options integrated directly with my bank accounts. It feels like a night and day difference. And this growth in infrastructure continues to accelerate, IMHO faster than any startup ecosystem I've seen before.

The key is to ignore the naysayers who focus on the price. The price in the near-term is immaterial. Ecosystem and infrastructure are all that matter at this stage.

If the naysayers start to focus on bashing the ecosystem and infrastructure build-out (or lack of) I'll gladly listen because that is what matters.

Exactly. All of these people saying "Oh, but they're not investing in bitcoin/why aren't they buying".  Roll Eyes  You don't think that once the necessary groundwork is laid that all of these investors won't take us where we need to be? Lol

Well said. Relative newcomer bitcoiners, both trollish and non trollish, often can't see the amazing growth of the network and  infrastructure in only 6 years because they weren't there see how rickety it was only a few years ago during initial bootstrapping.  The party is only getting started and this is an excellent entry point for anyone who wants to cost average as we're near the point of maximum opportunity if not at it now.  

Edited for clarity and spelling

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February 03, 2015, 09:06:29 PM
 #20975

Quote
Starting back in 2011, a chimp could have become a millionaire

actually before then the IQ around this place was highest anywhere on the web ... so, no chimps and chumps have only came along later.

Just like apple and microsoft stocks, you had to have knowledge more than luck at those levels, people whining about unfairness of coin distribution are, almost by definition, stupider than your average bear.

There is a reason the devs left bitcointalk years ago for the promise land of listserv and GitHub. They seem to see bitcointalk as nothing but a den of thieves and scammers at this point.

I've never understood why but the chimps and chumps (as you call them) never seem to be able to figure out how to use something as simple as a malling list, and so switching over to that medium tends to leave them behind.

Its sad but over the years every decent message board or comment section I've found has eventually been taken over by the chimps and lose its value as the original community slowly bleeds out.
We might as well go back to usenet. At least you can *plonk* trolls there.
edit: I see there is a group for devs. I don't go on dev lists because I don't dev. Troll slaying is my gig.

The purpose of dev lists in some sense is they create a balance between open access and a barrier to the public. Due to the interface only people truly interested in a topic participate, and it is very easy to ignore those who distract a discussion (simple per user block). Because of this they tend to not degenerate in the same manner I've seen many forums/comment sections.

Regarding "troll slaying", I don't believe this is effective at all. Take JorgeS as an example, he wasn't slayed but improved his trolling. On this forum he was able to test multiple forms of FUD, see which one were easily refuted and he shouldn't use any more, and which were more complicated to refute or that were hard for newcomers to understand. This thread has started to become a troll testing ground which is why I've been less active.
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February 03, 2015, 09:20:57 PM
 #20976

200 is the new 2 (and all you bears should keep in mind that that's 100x return in 3 years)

^ This.


I just continue to be floored by the growth in the ecosystem. Two years ago our only options to acquire bitcoin were home mining or sending money to a flacky website in Japan through Dwolla which limited transfer sizes. Today there are plenty of professional options integrated directly with my bank accounts. It feels like a night and day difference. And this growth in infrastructure continues to accelerate, IMHO faster than any startup ecosystem I've seen before.

^ And this.


...Relative newcomer bitcoiners, both trollish and non trollish, often can't see the amazing growth of the network and  infrastructure in only 6 years because they weren't there see how rickety it was only a few years ago during initial bootstrapping... 

^ And this.

Elaborating on these, from when I discovered bitcoin in 2011, I thought it'd take >10 years to get to where we are today. There was basically nothing in terms of ecosystem or buy-in from any notable "mainstream" people, and we were experiencing a 94% crash from a blow-off peak. It certainly seemed like it would take forever to bootstrap the ecosystem, if it was to happen at all. Furthermore, bitcoin hadn't *really* been battle tested at that point. The risk was huge for a number of reasons.

The risk is still large, of course, but there's little comparison. We've experienced *too-rapid* growth in awareness and hype, and now we settle in to the longer task of building polished tools, educating people, and integrating bitcoin into broader systems and workflows. It's going to take time, but we're over what was a pretty high-looking hurdle from 2011's point of view.


Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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February 03, 2015, 10:19:59 PM
 #20977

Elaborating on these, from when I discovered bitcoin in 2011, I thought it'd take >10 years to get to where we are today. There was basically nothing in terms of ecosystem or buy-in from any notable "mainstream" people, and we were experiencing a 94% crash from a blow-off peak. It certainly seemed like it would take forever to bootstrap the ecosystem, if it was to happen at all. Furthermore, bitcoin hadn't *really* been battle tested at that point. The risk was huge for a number of reasons.

The risk is still large, of course, but there's little comparison. We've experienced *too-rapid* growth in awareness and hype, and now we settle in to the longer task of building polished tools, educating people, and integrating bitcoin into broader systems and workflows. It's going to take time, but we're over what was a pretty high-looking hurdle from 2011's point of view.

Elaborating on this, people in 2011 looked at 2009/10 prices and had the exact same conversation, however risk in 2011 was significantly lower than in 2009/10.

In 2009/10 bitcoin was not even a standalone entity yet. It was a very small community of developers lead by Satoshi who set most of the direction. Mining was largely centralized and supported by satoshi in '09. Bitcoin was a novelty and it was not proven yet if it would successfully function on it's own in the wild with usage beyond a small number of aligned individuals.

2011 was the year Bitcoin successfully transitioned to a standalone entity and demonstrated that it would function out in the wild without the training wheels of it's founder. That was a huge transition, which justified the price increase from $0.10 in 2010 to >$1 prices in 2011.

Each of these two transitions (the one above and the one Melbustus states) came with a significant move in valuation.

Just think how many transitions there are to go between today and mainstream adoption.

Edit: I was not involved during this time period, and base the above on what I've read. I vaguely remember first reading the word bitcoin in a slashdot article title in 2009, but did not investigate at all due to work time pressures. It was a New Yorker article on Satoshi of all things in late 2011 that my wife suggested I read that got me involved and I immediately latched onto it. Still regret not reading that link in 2009.
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February 03, 2015, 10:21:10 PM
 #20978

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1422975660.php

Why inflation is just smoke & mirrors... he pretty much sums up what bitcoin is all about with its finite supply but fails to correlate the two.

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February 03, 2015, 10:58:55 PM
 #20979

Apparently Blockstream is 1-2 months away from releasing code for federated sidechains... Interested to see what comes out of this

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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February 03, 2015, 11:10:08 PM
 #20980

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1422975660.php

Why inflation is just smoke & mirrors... he pretty much sums up what bitcoin is all about with its finite supply but fails to correlate the two.

Great read, thanks.

The problem for gold bugs is they are stuck on looking at the Store-of-Value function and history of gold only. They do not see that despite a superior SoV function gold failed because it's Payment-Function is weaker than central bank fiat money, and that the Payment-Function drives adoption, not the SoV function. Example: this article focuses on the SoV function only.

The key central bank invention was to transition money to a ledger account, which enabled instant transfers between accounts regardless of geographical location. Essentially fiat money could move as fast as information, this is light-years ahead of gold. The public accepted fiat because it is easier to work with, despite it's poor SoV function because the public didn't emphasize the SoV function. This lack of public SoV focus is largely why governments have gotten away with their abuse of money IMHO.

Yes Bitcoin provides a superior SoV function, but it has a superior Payment-Function to fiat and that is what will slowly win over individuals. Essentially Bitcoin provides all the benefits of fiat ledger money with the benefits of direct control/interaction (no middlemen), this combined with personal computing creates a vastly superior Payment-Function, which is what will drive adoption.

Bitcoin's perfect SoV I don't see as being the sole driver of wider adoption, even though it's SoV is why I support the project. That is why it is critical to protect Bitcoin's SoV function from the inevitable attacks we'll see.
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