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News: BIP91 seems stable: there's probably only slightly increased risk of confirmations disappearing. You should still prepare for Aug 1.
 
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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1940632 times)
cypherdoc
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January 30, 2015, 04:22:38 PM
 #20821

the great sucking sound of the huge black hole of shit continues apace:

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January 30, 2015, 04:26:23 PM
 #20822

i thought nat gas was the next great bull mkt putting the US on top of the energy pyramid?

zanzibar
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January 30, 2015, 04:28:03 PM
 #20823

the only great thing about it is that the alts will be allowed to siphon all the value out of the Bitcoin MC.  great for alt devs and investors, not for Bitcoin holders.

I don't necessarily agree, I believe Bitcoin will remain king, people will treat Bitcoin as the "central bank", where they hold their savings and assets, plus it will bring incredible functionality to Bitcoin.  Think about a killer sidechain feature that brings in 1 million new users, that is a good thing.  We are far too small of a user base to think about limiting options, and I believe sidechains could bring in a lot of new people, which is what we need.  

I know it's a really tired argument and I agree with a lot of things you say, not trying to ignite another debate.
kodtycoon
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January 30, 2015, 04:28:17 PM
 #20824

It would be a no-brainer to just wait a quarter or two for sidechains then commission Blockstream to help with design.  Alt's are history though I'm sure there will still be a few lingering dead-ender scams.  Any alt with at least semi-pure motives would be delighted to switch to a sidechain backing.

I can see all Alt's pegging to BTC via sidechains, allow x-chain transactions, could be a great thing (despite the downfalls which cypher has eluded to). 



the only great thing about it is that the alts will be allowed to siphon all the value out of the Bitcoin MC.  great for alt devs and investors, not for Bitcoin holders.

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

zanzibar
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January 30, 2015, 04:41:08 PM
 #20825

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts.  BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc..  BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money.  If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million.  People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.
kodtycoon
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January 30, 2015, 04:44:28 PM
 #20826

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts.  BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc..  BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money.  If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million.  People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.

thats how it is now. it may not be like that 5 years from now. its only a matter of time before more people start to see that bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology. you and many other bitcoiners might not see that yet, but eventually more and more will. of course it wont happen over night but it will happen.

brg444
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January 30, 2015, 04:50:47 PM
 #20827

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts.  BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc..  BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money.  If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million.  People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.

thats how it is now. it may not be like that 5 years from now. its only a matter of time before more people start to see that bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology. you and many other bitcoiners might not see that yet, but eventually more and more will. of course it wont happen over night but it will happen.

outdated how exactly?

what crypto out there has proven to be better, not just on paper?

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
zanzibar
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January 30, 2015, 04:52:29 PM
 #20828

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts.  BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc..  BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money.  If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million.  People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.

thats how it is now. it may not be like that 5 years from now. its only a matter of time before more people start to see that bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology. you and many other bitcoiners might not see that yet, but eventually more and more will. of course it wont happen over night but it will happen.

So why not Peg to the blockchain so people can easily transition to your alt?  Right now your on an island with a couple hundred other people. 
Peter R
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January 30, 2015, 05:38:42 PM
 #20829

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts.  BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc..  BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money.  If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million.  People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.

thats how it is now. it may not be like that 5 years from now. its only a matter of time before more people start to see that bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology. you and many other bitcoiners might not see that yet, but eventually more and more will. of course it wont happen over night but it will happen.

Remember that "Bitcoin" is two things: it's a protocol (technology) and it's a ledger (distribution of wealth across a user base).  Even if you subscribe to the thesis that "bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology" and will eventually be replaced (which I don't), you still haven't provided an argument that Bitcoin the ledger will be replaced at the same time.  Given the strong lock-in effects associated with networks, I think a stronger argument can be made that bitcoin holders would retain their wealth should a genuinely superior cryptocurrency technology become available.  This could be accomplished using sidechains or spinoffs.  

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
brg444
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January 30, 2015, 06:14:19 PM
 #20830

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts.  BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc..  BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money.  If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million.  People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.

thats how it is now. it may not be like that 5 years from now. its only a matter of time before more people start to see that bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology. you and many other bitcoiners might not see that yet, but eventually more and more will. of course it wont happen over night but it will happen.


Remember that "Bitcoin" is two things: it's a protocol (technology) and it's a ledger (distribution of wealth across a user base).  Even if you subscribe to the thesis that "bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology" and will eventually be replaced (which I don't), you still haven't provided an argument that Bitcoin the ledger will be replaced at the same time.  Given the strong lock-in effects associated with networks, I think a stronger argument can be made that bitcoin holders would retain their wealth should a genuinely superior cryptocurrency technology become available.  This could be accomplished using sidechains or spinoffs.  

Exactly.

It is my impression that the distribution of bitcoins over the years was such a unique, organic process that it cannot be replicated by whatever new crypto comes along.

The "fairness" of the distribution being such a key aspect to the establishement of any currency/money, the only chance for a new protocol to be adopted is if it recognizes Bitcoin's current ledger as the only equitable option and recognizes each owners' share of THE ledger

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
kodtycoon
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January 30, 2015, 07:03:55 PM
 #20831

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts.  BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc..  BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money.  If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million.  People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.

thats how it is now. it may not be like that 5 years from now. its only a matter of time before more people start to see that bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology. you and many other bitcoiners might not see that yet, but eventually more and more will. of course it wont happen over night but it will happen.

So why not Peg to the blockchain so people can easily transition to your alt?  Right now your on an island with a couple hundred other people

you apparently seem to be on the same island Cheesy

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January 30, 2015, 07:38:15 PM
 #20832

See. I told you they were going to start asking:

“What is the red line in Germany that nobody wants to see? The word ‘haircut.’ Nobody wants to see debt forgiveness.” 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-28/greece-wants-money-from-its-much-poorer-neighbors

Creditors are more than willing to extend debt to sovereigns in the belief that they will always tax their citizens if it comes down to i.  They will never forgive debt unless it's for themselves or are forced. 
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January 30, 2015, 08:06:11 PM
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"most people investing in cryptocurrencies are going to lose money" -  cypherdoc

http://www.coindesk.com/research-11-million-lost-bitcoin-scams-since-2009/
kodtycoon
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January 30, 2015, 08:23:47 PM
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"most people investing in cryptocurrencies are going to lose money" -  cypherdoc

http://www.coindesk.com/research-11-million-lost-bitcoin-scams-since-2009/

you know its a very self important thing to do, to quote yourself. Cheesy let alone quote the same lines multiple times. that line isnt even original.. its been said about the stock market for yonks.. changing one word doesnt make it original. Smiley

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January 30, 2015, 08:28:14 PM
 #20835

i thought nat gas was the next great bull mkt putting the US on top of the energy pyramid?

Aren't these mutually exclusive?  US gets "on top of the energy pyramid" by supplying incredibly cheap nat gas, not by providing expensive product.
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January 30, 2015, 08:54:30 PM
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its only a matter of time before more people start to see that bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology.

you confuse money with gadgets. most of us would not be here if we thought for a moment bitcoin was some kind of tech fad.
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January 30, 2015, 09:08:33 PM
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So why not Peg to the blockchain so people can easily transition to your alt?  Right now your on an island with a couple hundred other people
you apparently seem to be on the same island Cheesy

Good rebuttal.  Roll Eyes  I'll give you a little piece of advice since you are obviously jr.  If you want to attract users for NEM, don't go around talking about how other protocols are inferior. The people here have a lot more crypto knowledge than you.  They've seen hundreds of alts come and go.  Be more welcoming to the crypto community, ask people to try NEM beta, tell them it's advantages without talking about others' disadvantages.  It's easy for me to say the creator of NEM, UtopianFuture, had hundreds of sock puppets and thus the whole premise of "fair distribution" is bullshit.  You are going to hear that a lot. 
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January 30, 2015, 09:46:14 PM
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https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/nine-awesome-bitcoin-projects-at-princeton/

the best and brightest are doing their final projects on bitcoin extensions, apps, overlay protocols (this reminds me exactly of stanford/cisco in 1990 and I wonder how long until we get bitcoin router blue-boxes ... explain to me again how the internet is just a fad?

kodtycoon
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January 30, 2015, 09:53:48 PM
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So why not Peg to the blockchain so people can easily transition to your alt?  Right now your on an island with a couple hundred other people
you apparently seem to be on the same island Cheesy

Good rebuttal.  Roll Eyes  I'll give you a little piece of advice since you are obviously jr.  If you want to attract users for NEM, don't go around talking about how other protocols are inferior. The people here have a lot more crypto knowledge than you.  They've seen hundreds of alts come and go.  Be more welcoming to the crypto community, ask people to try NEM beta, tell them it's advantages without talking about others' disadvantages.  It's easy for me to say the creator of NEM, UtopianFuture, had hundreds of sock puppets and thus the whole premise of "fair distribution" is bullshit.  You are going to hear that a lot. 
fair point, but considering the beating that alts get from guys in here I would hope they can take it as well as they give it Wink

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January 30, 2015, 11:09:41 PM
 #20840

Just a thought I had:

USD and Gold were both the safe haven plays of 2014; they strengthened in relation to everything else (and basically remained steady vs each other). Bitcoin reached a peak at the turn of the year, at that stage still a highly speculative asset. In a year that saw a flock to safety, bitcoin suffered, partly as it was the most speculative of plays. I look forward to bitcoin maturing and being seen as a growing, safer, alternate asset class. Like most others, I think it's coming.

Cypher sees market cap leaking from gold to bitcoin and I think if bitcoin matures and succeeds, in a digital age, this is inevitable. However, to what degree is yet to be seen. There will always be those who will never be turned by bitcoin and will go with what they know; but even small percentages of trillion dollar market caps will sufficiently expand btc.
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