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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1978059 times)
tvbcof
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January 31, 2015, 05:57:18 PM
 #20861

^Didn't make myself clear.  I didn't mean to imply that Bitcoin's lack of scalability has prevented anyone from making money on it.  I just assumed that such fundamental, conceptual flaws would have been addressed by now.
Guess not Undecided

One cannot change the laws of nature.  There is no 'fixing' this 'fundamental flaw', and I suspect that many many people never really considered it including most of the devs.  'Addressing it' is a different matter.  A few of the devs looked toward the mainstream (mega-corporations to provide infrastructure and the state sponsored legal protections) but happily this doesn't seem to be the first option for most of them.

For my part I don't consider this 'fundamental flaw' to be a flaw at all.  I consider it more a happy accident of fate and a a feature of reality which produces the potential to make native Bitcoin a system actually work in the real world.  By 'work', I mean to remain a genuinely autonomous and independent solution which is robust against attack by vested power interests.

As I've said before, the idea of sidechains hit me right away as a means of scaling, and I argued to call native Bitcoin 'blockchain zero' back in 2011.  As long as this chain can remain uncorrupted and supportable it really doesn't matter what happens on the infinite number of chains which derive their value from it.


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brg444
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January 31, 2015, 06:13:13 PM
 #20862

^Didn't make myself clear.  I didn't mean to imply that Bitcoin's lack of scalability has prevented anyone from making money on it.  Just assumed that such fundamental, conceptual flaws would have been addressed by now.
Guess not Undecided

Only if you pretend it is a flaw and not an opportunity for others to build onto the protocol to create solutions that meet the markets demands

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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January 31, 2015, 06:24:30 PM
 #20863

^Didn't make myself clear.  I didn't mean to imply that Bitcoin's lack of scalability has prevented anyone from making money on it.  I just assumed that such fundamental, conceptual flaws would have been addressed by now.
Guess not Undecided

One cannot change the laws of nature.  There is no 'fixing' this 'fundamental flaw', and I suspect that many many people never really considered it including most of the devs.  'Addressing it' is a different matter.  A few of the devs looked toward the mainstream (mega-corporations to provide infrastructure and the state sponsored legal protections) but happily this doesn't seem to be the first option for most of them.

For my part I don't consider this 'fundamental flaw' to be a flaw at all.  I consider it more a happy accident of fate and a a feature of reality which produces the potential to make native Bitcoin a system actually work in the real world.  By 'work', I mean to remain a genuinely autonomous and independent solution which is robust against attack by vested power interests.

As I've said before, the idea of sidechains hit me right away as a means of scaling, and I argued to call native Bitcoin 'blockchain zero' back in 2011.  As long as this chain can remain uncorrupted and supportable it really doesn't matter what happens on the infinite number of chains which derive their value from it.

Not sure I fully understand.  You are happy that Bitcoin is not a practical substitute for money after six years of development, in its current state? Useful only as a peg, a standard on top of which further payment systems must be developed?

My question still stands:  This [happy accident/feature/totally not a problem] was clear at the outset, why was it not addressed until now?
NotLambchop
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January 31, 2015, 06:31:22 PM
 #20864

...
Only if you pretend it is a flaw and not an opportunity for others to build onto the protocol to create solutions that meet the markets demands

When you buy a house & realize you've been sold an empty lot, look at it as an opportunity--you've been sold a chance to build your own!
Coinshot
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January 31, 2015, 06:32:37 PM
 #20865

I am not too bullish on BTC anymore, I think BTC has yet to find its bottom. It may be better to invest in Silver now.


██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
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...INTRODUCING WAVES........
...ULTIMATE ASSET/CUSTOM TOKEN BLOCKCHAIN PLATFORM...






brg444
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January 31, 2015, 06:33:39 PM
 #20866

^Didn't make myself clear.  I didn't mean to imply that Bitcoin's lack of scalability has prevented anyone from making money on it.  I just assumed that such fundamental, conceptual flaws would have been addressed by now.
Guess not Undecided

One cannot change the laws of nature.  There is no 'fixing' this 'fundamental flaw', and I suspect that many many people never really considered it including most of the devs.  'Addressing it' is a different matter.  A few of the devs looked toward the mainstream (mega-corporations to provide infrastructure and the state sponsored legal protections) but happily this doesn't seem to be the first option for most of them.

For my part I don't consider this 'fundamental flaw' to be a flaw at all.  I consider it more a happy accident of fate and a a feature of reality which produces the potential to make native Bitcoin a system actually work in the real world.  By 'work', I mean to remain a genuinely autonomous and independent solution which is robust against attack by vested power interests.

As I've said before, the idea of sidechains hit me right away as a means of scaling, and I argued to call native Bitcoin 'blockchain zero' back in 2011.  As long as this chain can remain uncorrupted and supportable it really doesn't matter what happens on the infinite number of chains which derive their value from it.

Not sure I fully understand.  You are happy that Bitcoin is not a practical substitute for money after six years of development, in its current state? Useful only as a peg, a standard on top of which further payment systems must be developed?

My question still stands:  This [happy accident/feature/totally not a problem] was clear at the outset, why was it not addressed until now?

Bitcoin "payment network" not being able to scale natively to record, validate & retain every coffee purchase does not make it flawed as a proposition for a sound form of money.

The idea of Bitcoin as "a standard on top of which further payment systems must be developed" was, afaik, envisioned by most everyone with a hint of foresight.


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
brg444
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January 31, 2015, 06:35:24 PM
 #20867

...
Only if you pretend it is a flaw and not an opportunity for others to build onto the protocol to create solutions that meet the markets demands

When you buy a house & realize you've been sold an empty lot, look at it as an opportunity--you've been sold a chance to build your own!

No one ever pretended Bitcoin would natively scale to handle all of the world's transactions

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
Coinshot
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January 31, 2015, 06:37:25 PM
 #20868

...
Only if you pretend it is a flaw and not an opportunity for others to build onto the protocol to create solutions that meet the markets demands

When you buy a house & realize you've been sold an empty lot, look at it as an opportunity--you've been sold a chance to build your own!

No one ever pretended Bitcoin would natively scale to handle all of the world's transactions

Its not even that good as a payment mechanism. Its useful as an easy store as opposed to, say, gold.


██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████▄▄▄███████████████████████
███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████▀▀▀████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████



...INTRODUCING WAVES........
...ULTIMATE ASSET/CUSTOM TOKEN BLOCKCHAIN PLATFORM...






NotLambchop
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January 31, 2015, 06:44:58 PM
 #20869

...
Bitcoin "payment network" not being able to scale natively to record, validate & retain every coffee purchase does not make it flawed as a proposition for a sound form of money.

The idea of Bitcoin as "a standard on top of which further payment systems must be developed" was, afaik, envisioned by most everyone with a hint of foresight.

I was told that Bitcoin was meant to do just that--"validate & retain every coffee purchase."  That's what made it so interesting.  Many here still don't get that Bitcoin is no more a proof of concept--an experiment.  A precursor, perhaps useful as a standard.
No more likely to replace money than an atomic [time standard] clock is to replace wristwatches.
hdbuck
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January 31, 2015, 06:49:33 PM
 #20870

^Didn't make myself clear.  I didn't mean to imply that Bitcoin's lack of scalability has prevented anyone from making money on it.  I just assumed that such fundamental, conceptual flaws would have been addressed by now.
Guess not Undecided

One cannot change the laws of nature.  There is no 'fixing' this 'fundamental flaw', and I suspect that many many people never really considered it including most of the devs.  'Addressing it' is a different matter.  A few of the devs looked toward the mainstream (mega-corporations to provide infrastructure and the state sponsored legal protections) but happily this doesn't seem to be the first option for most of them.

For my part I don't consider this 'fundamental flaw' to be a flaw at all.  I consider it more a happy accident of fate and a a feature of reality which produces the potential to make native Bitcoin a system actually work in the real world.  By 'work', I mean to remain a genuinely autonomous and independent solution which is robust against attack by vested power interests.

As I've said before, the idea of sidechains hit me right away as a means of scaling, and I argued to call native Bitcoin 'blockchain zero' back in 2011.  As long as this chain can remain uncorrupted and supportable it really doesn't matter what happens on the infinite number of chains which derive their value from it.

Not sure I fully understand.  You are happy that Bitcoin is not a practical substitute for money after six years of development, in its current state? Useful only as a peg, a standard on top of which further payment systems must be developed?

My question still stands:  This [happy accident/feature/totally not a problem] was clear at the outset, why was it not addressed until now?

Bitcoin "payment network" not being able to scale natively to record, validate & retain every coffee purchase does not make it flawed as a proposition for a sound form of money.

The idea of Bitcoin as "a standard on top of which further payment systems must be developed" was, afaik, envisioned by most everyone with a hint of foresight.



exactly my thoughts.
anyway after wondering around a bit, i think a full consensus wont possibly be reached.
im gonna play the prudence here, letting people jump first.
as i understood it wont be reversible once done, and im not in the rush of moving my bitcoins.

brg444
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January 31, 2015, 06:49:37 PM
 #20871

...
Only if you pretend it is a flaw and not an opportunity for others to build onto the protocol to create solutions that meet the markets demands

When you buy a house & realize you've been sold an empty lot, look at it as an opportunity--you've been sold a chance to build your own!

No one ever pretended Bitcoin would natively scale to handle all of the world's transactions

Its not even that good as a payment mechanism. Its useful as an easy store as opposed to, say, gold.

It's actually as good as it gets right now as a payment mechanism (other than the obvious scaling issues)

But that is only because traditional financial infrastructure has been lagging behind something serious for the last decades. It is likely that centralized platforms will eventually catch up and be more efficient than Bitcoin's base protocol.


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
NotLambchop
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January 31, 2015, 06:51:51 PM
 #20872

...
Only if you pretend it is a flaw and not an opportunity for others to build onto the protocol to create solutions that meet the markets demands

When you buy a house & realize you've been sold an empty lot, look at it as an opportunity--you've been sold a chance to build your own!

No one ever pretended Bitcoin would natively scale to handle all of the world's transactions

Would it surprise you to know that many Bitcointalk users think Bitcoin is ready for primetime?
They actually think that Bitcoin is a functional, scalable payment system.  Fools Undecided
hdbuck
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January 31, 2015, 06:52:32 PM
 #20873

...
Only if you pretend it is a flaw and not an opportunity for others to build onto the protocol to create solutions that meet the markets demands

When you buy a house & realize you've been sold an empty lot, look at it as an opportunity--you've been sold a chance to build your own!

No one ever pretended Bitcoin would natively scale to handle all of the world's transactions

Would it surprise you to know that many Bitcointalk users think Bitcoin is ready for primetime?
They actually think that Bitcoin is a functional, scalable payment system.  Fools Undecided

you should be happy, for once you may have been right
brg444
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January 31, 2015, 06:55:38 PM
 #20874

...
Bitcoin "payment network" not being able to scale natively to record, validate & retain every coffee purchase does not make it flawed as a proposition for a sound form of money.

The idea of Bitcoin as "a standard on top of which further payment systems must be developed" was, afaik, envisioned by most everyone with a hint of foresight.

I was told that Bitcoin was meant to do just that--"validate & retain every coffee purchase."  That's what made it so interesting.  Many here still don't get that Bitcoin is no more a proof of concept--an experiment.  A precursor, perhaps useful as a standard.
No more likely to replace money than an atomic [time standard] clock is to replace wristwatches.

I thought you knew better than to believe what any Bitcoiner would tell you  Wink

As far as Bitcoin being no more than a proof of concept... Yeah that's absolutely not true.

I imagine people were saying the same about the internet back in 1993.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
NotLambchop
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January 31, 2015, 06:59:44 PM
 #20875

...
I imagine people were saying the same about the internet back in 1993.

The Pets.com/Web TV analogy again.  Don't you ever get bored?

@hdbuck:
>for once



Always.  Each and every time Smiley
brg444
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January 31, 2015, 07:05:14 PM
 #20876

...
I imagine people were saying the same about the internet back in 1993.

The Pets.com/Web TV analogy again.  Don't you ever get bored?

@hdbuck:
>for once

Always.  Each and every time Smiley

Absolutely not, it is always fascinating to see the stupidity you can come up with when trying to disprove the analogy.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
NotLambchop
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January 31, 2015, 07:11:08 PM
 #20877

...when trying to disprove the analogy.



Disprove the analogy...  You've clearly been to colleges Cheesy
BlindMayorBitcorn
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January 31, 2015, 07:43:29 PM
 #20878

...
I imagine people were saying the same about the internet back in 1993.

The Pets.com/Web TV analogy again.  Don't you ever get bored?

@hdbuck:
>for once



Always.  Each and every time Smiley

Wowow. You've moved on to the top tier to troll the die-hards? Shocked

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
NotHatinJustTrollin
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January 31, 2015, 07:44:46 PM
 #20879

1. Come up with a piece of technology you can invest in.
2. try to convince everyone to put money in it.
3. Claim that the heretics who have doubts about it simply don't understand it. Tell them that some folks had doubts about the internet back in its early days too.
4. ? ? ? ? ?
5. Profit!
brg444
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January 31, 2015, 07:46:55 PM
 #20880

1. Come up with a piece of technology you can invest in.
2. try to convince everyone to put money in it.
3. Claim that the heretics who have doubts about it simply don't understand it. Tell them that some folks had doubts about the internet back in its early days too.
4. ? ? ? ? ?
5. Profit!

Yes!  Smiley

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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