Bitcoin Forum
November 25, 2017, 10:06:49 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

Pages: « 1 ... 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 [1045] 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 ... 1558 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2014160 times)
HeliKopterBen
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 622



View Profile
January 31, 2015, 08:13:40 PM
 #20881

...
I imagine people were saying the same about the internet back in 1993.

The Pets.com/Web TV analogy again.  Don't you ever get bored?

@hdbuck:
>for once



Always.  Each and every time Smiley

Wowow. You've moved on to the top tier to troll the die-hards? Shocked

Yep.  We have got to be fairly close to another bottom.

Counterfeit:  made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive:  merriam-webster
1511604409
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511604409

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511604409
Reply with quote  #2

1511604409
Report to moderator
1511604409
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511604409

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511604409
Reply with quote  #2

1511604409
Report to moderator
Join ICO Now Coinlancer is Disrupting the Freelance marketplace!
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
600watt
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1624


View Profile
January 31, 2015, 08:39:06 PM
 #20882

f t t

fuck em really hard
marcus_of_augustus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2436



View Profile
January 31, 2015, 09:41:34 PM
 #20883

trolls can relax, scaling is a solved problem, and has been since mid-2011. Implementations are now coming into public domain, just as the market demand arises.

Off-chain payment channels, incl. blinded hub-spoke, are an elegant, cheap, fast, privacy-enhancing mechanism that has as good security as full btc TX by essentially aggregating many TX into a single daily/weekly/monthly on-chain settlement TX.

Side-chains are a side-show that wont be effective for regular TX (too complicated), maybe useful for more exotic derivatives, smart contracts, stock-trading, bonds and etc, but do not let them be a distraction in the scaling 'debate' (which is over now in knowledgeable circles).

semaforo
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 602


View Profile
January 31, 2015, 11:12:03 PM
 #20884

Overall, the people explaining why different issues there appear to be with the bitcoin protocol seem to be a lot smarter than the trolls criticizing it, and their explanations are a lot more in depth. I think this bodes well for the long term viability. It's important to look for each persons agenda when reading commwntary . The beat voices to listen to are those that are genuinely excited and interested in getting to the truth.

Check out my innovative blockchain+killer app project at http://ummati.io --- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2137399.0
justusranvier
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400



View Profile WWW
February 01, 2015, 01:06:43 AM
 #20885

Nice to see this thread merits the attention of the professional trolls.

Cypherdoc must be doing something right.
sgbett
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1498



View Profile
February 01, 2015, 01:20:07 AM
 #20886

3. No, there is plenty of debate regarding bitcoins flaws / doubts. Plenty of agree to disagrees. Jesus, it involves economic theory, ideology, computer security etc it is a lot more volatile and complicated than just "simply don't understand it". Sidechains, block sizes, mining centralization etc etc

It's the condescending nature of some trolls (NLC), three word slogans (cut your loose, bitcoin is dying) and repetitive topics (no one is using it, there's no demand, get out now, bitcoin is dead) that shit me (same goes with the To The Moon / $100000000 per coin crowd, we're goin up)

You & your sock puppets are just like dust transactions, bloating the forum.

solid post. I'm guilty of the odd "what if it goes to a million" type post, but I'm generally speculating about how that manifests itself and what it means in a sense of bitcoin's place in the world. I usually always try to balance it with a "bitcoin could go to zero" caveat.

What you say is right though, what may happen is so complex that none can possible predict with any surety. Dust transactions, great analogy.

Full Node: http://46.51.193.129 (BU) || http://haschinabannedbitcoin.com
"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution" - Satoshi Nakamoto
Zarathustra
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036



View Profile
February 01, 2015, 07:20:48 AM
 #20887

"Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP"

I LOL everytime.

Collapsing in waves.

Grand_Voyageur
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322


https://dadice.com | Click my signature to join!


View Profile WWW
February 01, 2015, 08:21:39 AM
 #20888

Median age in Greece is over 43 years old.

Every young person with any kind of talent or ability has fled.

It's a country full of ageing people who are desperately trying to believe that when they get too old to work they'll be able to pay the younger generation that doesn't exist to take care of them with the money they won't have.

And when private enterprise attempts to create jobs, it is met with protests and arson.

http://www.businessinsider.com/demonstrators-protest-greek-gold-mine-2013-11



That truck is a metaphor for the entire country.  They made their socialist hellhole, and now they can burn in it.

Did these idiots forget that without the Athenian silver mines they'd all be speaking Persian?

Good triremes weren't cheap, and neither are F-16s.

Greece biggest challenge is to efficently collect taxes, actually the country has a 25% shadow sector in their economy. Also, the country still see Turkey as an existential threat hence the need for one o the most capable air force in Europe. Without them nor social security nor defence spending is possible.
Quote
It is only a question of when, not if, the Europeans pull the plug on Athens — which most likely will be at the first opportunity, when Greece does not present a systemic risk to the rest of Europe.
As a Stratfor geopolitical analysis put it: "Succeeding in maintaining control of the Aegean, Greece's most important imperative, in the face of regional opposition is simply impossible without an outside patron." So, Greece is whether it will be able to accept its much-reduced geopolitical role? The country would be able to reach an understanding with Turkey even if this means becoming subordinate to its neighbour?

███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
█   ⚂⚄⚀⚃⚅⚁    ██  d a d i c e  ██    Next Generation Dice Game
• Low 1% house edge. • Provably Fair.  
███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
NotLambchop
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378


View Profile
February 02, 2015, 06:19:51 PM
 #20889

...scaling is a solved problem, and has been since mid-2011. Implementations are now coming into public domain, just as the market demand arises.
...

Aha.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2t7e11/justus_ranviereconomic_fallacies_and_the_block/
Justus Ranvier--Economic Fallacies and the Block Size Limit, part 1: Scarcity by xcslerin Bitcoin

[–]theymos 6 points 11 days ago*
There's a hard protocol rule called the max block size which limits the number of network-wide transactions to a few transactions per second. The actual number of transactions per second depends on the size of the transactions, which varies. Removing or increasing this limit would require everyone who runs their own Bitcoin wallet to upgrade their wallet software. A change to the Bitcoin network which requires everyone to upgrade is called a hard fork.
Such a small limit on the network's capacity is obviously undesirable, and many people are a bit horrified that the Bitcoin network is limited in this a way when they first learn about it. The naïve response is to just completely remove this limit, which seems at first glance to be an utterly pointless restriction on Bitcoin's scalability. (Some well-informed people also hold this view and have reasonable arguments.) However, many Bitcoin experts believe that completely removing the limit is fairly likely to cause Bitcoin to become highly centralized, or become too weak against mining-based attacks, or be destroyed entirely. But even if Bitcoin can't handle as many transactions as we'd all like, that doesn't mean that Bitcoin is useless: there are several well-explored but not-yet-implemented ideas for using Bitcoin securely, cheaply, and easily without creating "actual" Bitcoin transactions.
I might try writing an easier-to-understand but still fairly complete and accurate summary of the issue, but that'll take several hours, and I don't have time right now. Until then, here's a propaganda video from someone who supports keeping the max block size at its current level for the foreseeable future, which is not what I support. The video also contains some exaggerated/controversial statements. But it's probably still an OK video for getting the basic idea.
inca
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1162


View Profile
February 02, 2015, 07:12:25 PM
 #20890

I am somewhat surprised Cypherdoc allows obvious trolls to post on this thread.

It may well be the last vestige of intelligent conversation within the fora. What a great shame it would be for this thread to be derailed down to the depths like the rest of the forum!
NotHatinJustTrollin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126


View Profile
February 02, 2015, 07:20:28 PM
 #20891

"Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP"

I LOL everytime.

Collapsing in waves.


That chart sure looks pretty, but you should post a linear one, which shows a different picture  Smiley

Everything that started at near zero and had fluctuations when it wasn't worth much and was eventually pumped way higher will have a similar chart in logarithmic scale.

Price could go at double or single digits and still look like a decent uptrend in the chart you posted for someone who can't read a logarithmic chart like it's supposed to. You are saying there is nothing to worry if it even goes to double or single digits?  Smiley
NotHatinJustTrollin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126


View Profile
February 02, 2015, 07:22:14 PM
 #20892

Regarding the hard fork/scalability issue: I have never seen so much controversy regarding the way to deal with a problem in bitcoin within the bitcoin community ever.

You guys are saying it's a "solved problem" or one with an obvious solution?
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
February 02, 2015, 07:23:41 PM
 #20893

I am somewhat surprised Cypherdoc allows obvious trolls to post on this thread.

It may well be the last vestige of intelligent conversation within the fora. What a great shame it would be for this thread to be derailed down to the depths like the rest of the forum!

it's called troll fatigue. can't fight 'em by myself.  we're going on 4 yrs here.

anyways, should be obvious all the trolling is from ppl not understanding Bitcoin.
tvbcof
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2324


View Profile
February 02, 2015, 07:33:11 PM
 #20894

I am somewhat surprised Cypherdoc allows obvious trolls to post on this thread.

It may well be the last vestige of intelligent conversation within the fora. What a great shame it would be for this thread to be derailed down to the depths like the rest of the forum!

it's called troll fatigue. can't fight 'em by myself.  we're going on 4 yrs here.

anyways, should be obvious all the trolling is from ppl not understanding Bitcoin.

Different people have different understandings of 'bitcoin', 'gold', and for that matter, 'trolls'.

I would say that if one defines a 'troll' as someone who holds a different opinion or who understands something like Bitcoin from a different perspective than one's own, that is pretty retarded.  I see it a lot around here.  I consider this thread to be one of the more absurd because of this, but it also makes it one of the most fun.  Especially for trolling.


NotHatinJustTrollin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126


View Profile
February 02, 2015, 07:46:28 PM
 #20895

ppl not understanding Bitcoin.
But dad! You just don't understand!  Angry








Sometimes I have the impression that the users expressing opinions against BTC (what you call "trolls") understand bitcoin better simply because they are not biased by the greed that motivates bitcoin hodlers  Smiley
They can see things for what they are.
Sometimes  Smiley

I guess you would call JorgeStolfi a troll too, right?  Smiley
rocks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1149


View Profile
February 02, 2015, 07:52:16 PM
 #20896

Regarding the hard fork/scalability issue: I have never seen so much controversy regarding the way to deal with a problem in bitcoin within the bitcoin community.

You guys saying it's a "Solved problem" or one with an obvious solution?

Controversy IMHO is a good thing, it is the messy process of having a diverse set of individuals be responsible for their own destiny, as opposed to one of the many forms of centralized command and control.

What I do not like about the hard fork/scalability issue is bitcoin is not going through this messy process to make the change, but instead is having it's future be decided by a single individual by default.

Overall I have been very impressed by Gavin. I think his IBLT solution was brilliant, no change to the underlying protocol yet it incentivizes all miners to include all outstanding mem pool transactions. What's more miners are incentivized to switch to IBLT on their own since it lowers block propagation time in all cases.

But his hard fork proposal puts bitcoin on a dangerous auto pilot regarding block sizes. The initial 20x jump to 20MB blocks is fine, but automatically having 10 doublings to 20GB blocks is dangerous. What if we find out there is some scale issue at 128MB? It will take a hard fork to stop the ramp.

But what I really don't like about it is there hasn't been any real discussion. Gavin thinks everything will be fine, so it is. I work in tech and know processors really well. Compute scaling has slowed down and will further slow down, there are only so many cores that can be feed data to process. But the real issue is network, network does not double every 2 years.

I've been so bothered by it that I've started to contemplate building an affordable AWS node configuration that refuses to propagate the hard fork blocks and open that up. If enough people started such nodes then miners would see that the new blocks propagate more slowly and maybe stick to older blocks out of self interest.

Gavin's upgrade cycle requires 80% of blocks over 1000 block period to be new blocks, so if you can get a few pools to opt-out you can block the upgrade.
NotHatinJustTrollin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126


View Profile
February 02, 2015, 07:57:06 PM
 #20897

Regarding the hard fork/scalability issue: I have never seen so much controversy regarding the way to deal with a problem in bitcoin within the bitcoin community.

You guys saying it's a "Solved problem" or one with an obvious solution?

Controversy IMHO is a good thing, it is the messy process of having a diverse set of individuals be responsible for their own destiny, as opposed to one of the many forms of centralized command and control.

What I do not like about the hard fork/scalability issue is bitcoin is not going through this messy process to make the change, but instead is having it's future be decided by a single individual by default.

Overall I have been very impressed by Gavin. I think his IBLT solution was brilliant, no change to the underlying protocol yet it incentivizes all miners to include all outstanding mem pool transactions. What's more miners are incentivized to switch to IBLT on their own since it lowers block propagation time in all cases.

But his hard fork proposal puts bitcoin on a dangerous auto pilot regarding block sizes. The initial 20x jump to 20MB blocks is fine, but automatically having 10 doublings to 20GB blocks is dangerous. What if we find out there is some scale issue at 128MB? It will take a hard fork to stop the ramp.

But what I really don't like about it is there hasn't been any real discussion. Gavin thinks everything will be fine, so it is. I work in tech and know processors really well. Compute scaling has slowed down and will further slow down, there are only so many cores that can be feed data to process. But the real issue is network, network does not double every 2 years.

I've been so bothered by it that I've started to contemplate building an affordable AWS node configuration that refuses to propagate the hard fork blocks and open that up. If enough people started such nodes then miners would see that the new blocks propagate more slowly and maybe stick to older blocks out of self interest.

Gavin's upgrade cycle requires 80% of blocks over 1000 block period to be new blocks, so if you can get a few pools to opt-out you can block the upgrade.
That's what I was talking about, some people here are like "no big deal, it's solved" while that scaling solution brings a plethora of other issues.

I'm pretty sure Gavin himself said that his solution "comes with risks" though.
tvbcof
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2324


View Profile
February 02, 2015, 08:23:02 PM
 #20898

...
I guess you would call JorgeStolfi a troll too, right?  Smiley

The guy has poor cypherdoc all balled up.  Not long ago he seemed to say something that cypherdoc agreed with and cyph re-labeled him 'not a troll' and stated this agreement as the reason for his newly achieved standing.  Then a few days later he said something cypherdoc didn't like and was back to wearing the troll label again.


epilido
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 30


View Profile
February 02, 2015, 08:30:49 PM
 #20899

Regarding the hard fork/scalability issue: I have never seen so much controversy regarding the way to deal with a problem in bitcoin within the bitcoin community.

You guys saying it's a "Solved problem" or one with an obvious solution?


But what I really don't like about it is there hasn't been any real discussion. Gavin thinks everything will be fine, so it is. I work in tech and know processors really well. Compute scaling has slowed down and will further slow down, there are only so many cores that can be feed data to process. But the real issue is network, network does not double every 2 years.

I've been so bothered by it that I've started to contemplate building an affordable AWS node configuration that refuses to propagate the hard fork blocks and open that up. If enough people started such nodes then miners would see that the new blocks propagate more slowly and maybe stick to older blocks out of self interest.

Gavin's upgrade cycle requires 80% of blocks over 1000 block period to be new blocks, so if you can get a few pools to opt-out you can block the upgrade.

How about using your energy to offer a solution.  Sticking your finger in the eye of the process is counterproductive.  It seems that the most productive people in Bitcoin are offering solutions and getting conversations started.  Without Gavin coding and testing the very large blocks we would not be talking about it or working toward a solution.
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
February 02, 2015, 08:31:42 PM
 #20900

...
I guess you would call JorgeStolfi a troll too, right?  Smiley

The guy has poor cypherdoc all balled up.  Not long ago he seemed to say something that cypherdoc agreed with and cyph re-labeled him 'not a troll' and stated this agreement as the reason for his newly achieved standing.  Then a few days later he said something cypherdoc didn't like and was back to wearing the troll label again.



Poor tvbcof.  Still seeing shadows. Typical paranoia.
Pages: « 1 ... 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 [1045] 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 ... 1558 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!