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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1803616 times)
smooth
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January 25, 2015, 04:53:23 AM
 #20581

...
If the threatened embrace of big banks and wall street goes anywhere beyond the toe-in-the-water stage then you can be sure it means bitcoin won't be disruptive after all.
...


I think that's a touch overly definitive. Part of the prospect of bitcoin is that it might not matter *how* it's embraced. Once it's value is high enough and it's in enough hands, it starts to become a financial backbone, both in terms of plumbing and store-of-value asset.

It also depends on what you mean by "disruptive". Replacing the plumbing of the existing financial system, while creating a new asset class - but still using dollars on the consumer tier - would be disruptive. But perhaps you're limiting the term to the more extreme fiat-goes-away scenarios.

I'd consider replacing the plumbing of the financial system to be disruptive (not something that happens often and creates massive winners and losers). Creating a new asset class would not be disruptive (happens all the time, there are dozens of asset classes already, or far more, depending on how you count).

If banks and wall street strongly embrace bitcoin it will mean that bitcoin is very compatible with business-as-usual, and its effects will be limited. If they keep a close eye on it, experiment with it, create niche products around it, then it might be disruptive. For example, I'd consider an ETF in this category, as it fits with "new asset class." It does not fit within "replace the plumbing of the financial system." At least not yet.

Disruptive technologies are strongly embraced by dominant players belatedly and reluctantly, when new winners have already been established, and it is too late to retain their dominant role in the post-disruption playing field. For example, Google has more advertising revenue than the entire television business, possibly more than all of traditional media combined. That's because big media did not strong embrace the internet; it didn't fit business-as-usual. They all had web sites and so forth, but they didn't and couldn't truly embrace it -- meaning change everything about the way they do business -- the way Google could.




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January 25, 2015, 03:50:45 PM
 #20582

System-wise the mainstream financial system is hampered more by regulatory issues.  From a computer science and engineering point of view it's job is not that difficult.

From a CS and engineering point of view, the current financial system is like a massive sprawling database built by someone who doesn't know anything about database normalization...

The problem with viewing Bitcoin as a database is obvious:  It's a database which can only handle 7 TPS.
This sort of throughput may be enough for your local Walmart, but world currency?
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January 25, 2015, 04:11:15 PM
 #20583

System-wise the mainstream financial system is hampered more by regulatory issues.  From a computer science and engineering point of view it's job is not that difficult.

From a CS and engineering point of view, the current financial system is like a massive sprawling database built by someone who doesn't know anything about database normalization...

The problem with viewing Bitcoin as a database is obvious:  It's a database which can only handle 7 TPS.
This sort of throughput may be enough for your local Walmart, but world currency?

See proposed hard fork, which (as you know) solves the transactional bandwidth issues bitcoin would eventually have experienced going forward.
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January 25, 2015, 04:20:48 PM
 #20584

System-wise the mainstream financial system is hampered more by regulatory issues.  From a computer science and engineering point of view it's job is not that difficult.

From a CS and engineering point of view, the current financial system is like a massive sprawling database built by someone who doesn't know anything about database normalization...

The problem with viewing Bitcoin as a database is obvious:  It's a database which can only handle 7 TPS.
This sort of throughput may be enough for your local Walmart, but world currency?

See proposed hard fork, which (as you know) solves the transactional bandwidth issues bitcoin would eventually have experienced going forward.


A patch increasing the (still limited) # of transactions at the expense of blockchain size.  At best a cludgy temp fix, "[f]rom a CS and engineering point of view."
Besides, we aren't talking about what Bitcoin could be if we changed the code--we're talking about Bitcoin as it is now Smiley
inca
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January 25, 2015, 04:34:00 PM
 #20585

System-wise the mainstream financial system is hampered more by regulatory issues.  From a computer science and engineering point of view it's job is not that difficult.

From a CS and engineering point of view, the current financial system is like a massive sprawling database built by someone who doesn't know anything about database normalization...

The problem with viewing Bitcoin as a database is obvious:  It's a database which can only handle 7 TPS.
This sort of throughput may be enough for your local Walmart, but world currency?

See proposed hard fork, which (as you know) solves the transactional bandwidth issues bitcoin would eventually have experienced going forward.


A patch increasing the (still limited) # of transactions at the expense of blockchain size.  At best a cludgy temp fix, "[f]rom a CS and engineering point of view."
Besides, we aren't talking about what Bitcoin could be if we changed the code--we're talking about Bitcoin as it is now Smiley

Blockchain size increases are a non issue and the 'patch' (hardfork) is scalable - the blockchain only grows rapidly if the TPS of the network grows rapidly. If they become an issue then some form of blockchain pruning code can be implemented.

Bitcoin 'now' is an evolving project since 2009.
NotLambchop
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January 25, 2015, 04:42:38 PM
 #20586

^TL;DR: Hardforks are just fine, we'll hardfork this thing like a red-headed stepchild--change 21mil max coin limit, give it 50% a year inflation because hardfork, so whateva!

sidhujag
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January 25, 2015, 05:09:43 PM
 #20587

Hardforks r expected atleast first 10 yrs.. Ie we had a hardfork when we got rid of gold standard but monetary policy at the time was hundreds of yrs old..
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January 25, 2015, 05:10:59 PM
 #20588

now you're talking, baby:

Bitcoin: The “Perfect Gold”

http://insidebitcoins.com/news/bitcoin-the-perfect-gold/29080?utm_content=buffere5c51&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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January 25, 2015, 05:24:32 PM
 #20589

Hardforks r expected atleast first 10 yrs.. Ie we had a hardfork when we got rid of gold standard but monetary policy at the time was hundreds of yrs old..

That's because trust in fiat != trust in a chunk of code.  With Bitcoin, code is exactly what you have to put your trust in.
I'm also not buying that miners (rather: mining pools) will chose the fork that's best for Bitcoin as a whole, i.e. best for "hodlers," rather than the one which best serves their immediate interests Sad

BTW, have you noticed the pool breakdown lately?



Remember what it used to look like ~6 months ago?
cypherdoc
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January 25, 2015, 05:27:27 PM
 #20590

you mean this one?

NotLambchop
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January 25, 2015, 05:33:27 PM
 #20591

^No, I mean the chart I've posted, from https://blockchain.info/pools.
Nice homebrew you got there, glad you know how to make pie charts Smiley
NotHatinJustTrollin
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January 25, 2015, 05:36:20 PM
 #20592

4 pools controlling more than 51% of the network.

Very decentralized, much impossibility of mining cartels, many trustless currencies, wow.
ssmc2
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January 25, 2015, 05:40:20 PM
 #20593

Is there no thread safe from the troll invasion?  Roll Eyes
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January 25, 2015, 06:18:00 PM
 #20594

The interesting thing about professional trolls is that they help devs and investors think through every possible weakness and pitfall of the system, from the obvious to the far-fetched. So they too end up contributing.

For everything else there is the ignore button.   
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January 25, 2015, 07:03:56 PM
 #20595

The interesting thing about professional trolls is that they help devs and investors think through every possible weakness and pitfall of the system, from the obvious to the far-fetched. So they too end up contributing.

For everything else there is the ignore button.   

Its true.

They're also the ultimate contra indicator. The higher the pitch,  the more you buy.
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January 25, 2015, 07:19:46 PM
 #20596

^
*contraindicator.  One step at a tiem--first lrn 2 spellinks, then u can haz macroeconomics.
solex
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January 25, 2015, 07:57:44 PM
 #20597

The interesting thing about professional trolls is that they help devs and investors think through every possible weakness and pitfall of the system, from the obvious to the far-fetched. So they too end up contributing.

For everything else there is the ignore button.   

Its true.

They're also the ultimate contra indicator. The higher the pitch,  the more you buy.

Yep. And while they are hating and trolling like tantrum-throwing teenagers right now, years later they will look back and realize what the adults know today. That the dip below $200 was the last opportunity for the ordinary person to load up with BTC in serious quantity.

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January 25, 2015, 08:06:29 PM
 #20598

Whats worse is they probably hold coins just like everyone else, but are so insecure in themselves that they don't want to admit it in case anyone points out they were wrong. There whole sense of self identity is pinned on what random strangers on the internet think about their screen name. They come on here to slate everyone else just so that if BTC does go to shit they can still jerk off about how smrt they were on the internet. Then if the price does go up, they'll go back to posting on their original account, like they knew all along.

Beyond embarrassing.

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January 25, 2015, 08:13:11 PM
 #20599

Hardforks r expected atleast first 10 yrs.. Ie we had a hardfork when we got rid of gold standard but monetary policy at the time was hundreds of yrs old..

That's because trust in fiat != trust in a chunk of code.  With Bitcoin, code is exactly what you have to put your trust in.
I'm also not buying that miners (rather: mining pools) will chose the fork that's best for Bitcoin as a whole, i.e. best for "hodlers," rather than the one which best serves their immediate interests Sad

BTW, have you noticed the pool breakdown lately?



Remember what it used to look like ~6 months ago?
your right trust in fiat != trust in code id say trust in code > trust in fiat because trust in fiat = trust corrupt politicians and regulators and invisible hands while trust in code is what it is.. the consensus algorithm does not effect the long term outlook as a currency especially when mining shuts down. If you truly insist then trust in code for bitcoin can mean trusting that the miners dont collude to break the network before a fork is created. Even if that happens its a better outcome than what we have wih fiat today
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January 25, 2015, 08:19:32 PM
 #20600

Central banks are getting more negative press these days.
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