rebuilder
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August 12, 2015, 07:13:05 AM |
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I notice the OP there isn't adressing the issue that when Blockstream received their funding, LN wasn't yet around, so it's a bit hard to see how their business plan that got them 21 million USD could have relied on pushing people towards LN...
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Selling out to advertisers shows you respect neither yourself nor the rest of us. --------------------------------------------------------------- Too many low-quality posts? Mods not keeping things clean enough? Self-moderated threads let you keep signature spammers and trolls out!
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brg444
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August 12, 2015, 07:18:45 AM |
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I notice the OP there isn't adressing the issue that when Blockstream received their funding, LN wasn't yet around, so it's a bit hard to see how their business plan that got them 21 million USD could have relied on pushing people towards LN... This was indeed pointed out to him by me and several others.
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"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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smooth
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August 12, 2015, 07:21:06 AM |
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I notice the OP there isn't adressing the issue that when Blockstream received their funding, LN wasn't yet around, so it's a bit hard to see how their business plan that got them 21 million USD could have relied on pushing people towards LN... I don't think anyone believes that was their original business plan. The original plan may have been to do something similar with sidechains or another undisclosed layer 2 system of their own design. It is even possible their original business plan was simply to be Red Hat of Linux, as gmaxwell claimed. That is, hire key developers in the space and provide value-added packaging and services. None of that really matters if their business plan is something different now, which is entirely possible. It is also possible that they did know about LN, as it is alleged to have been in development for quite a while. Finally I think it is possible there simply was no real "business" plan, and the investors were in large part ideologically motivated or willing to take flyer handing money to a bunch of smart guys in a promising niche.
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iCEBREAKER
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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
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August 12, 2015, 07:40:01 AM |
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I notice the OP there isn't adressing the issue that when Blockstream received their funding, LN wasn't yet around, so it's a bit hard to see how their business plan that got them 21 million USD could have relied on pushing people towards LN...
I don't think anyone believes that was their original business plan. The original plan may have been to do something similar with sidechains or another undisclosed layer 2 system of their own design. It is even possible their original business plan was simply to be Red Hat of Linux, as gmaxwell claimed. That is, hire key developers in the space and provide value-added packaging and services. None of that really matters if their business plan is something different now, which is entirely possible. It is also possible that they did know about LN, as it is alleged to have been in development for quite a while. Finally I think it is possible there simply was no real "business" plan, and the investors were in large part ideologically motivated or willing to take flyer handing money to a bunch of smart guys in a promising niche. 1. Scale Bitcoin 2. ![Huh](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/huh.gif) 3. Profit
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██████████ ██████████████████ ██████████████████████ ██████████████████████████ ████████████████████████████ ██████████████████████████████ ████████████████████████████████ ████████████████████████████████ ██████████████████████████████████ ██████████████████████████████████ ██████████████████████████████████ ██████████████████████████████████ ██████████████████████████████████ ████████████████████████████████ ██████████████ ██████████████ ████████████████████████████ ██████████████████████████ ██████████████████████ ██████████████████ ██████████ Monero
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| "The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." David Chaum 1996 "Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect." Adam Back 2014
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Natalia_AnatolioPAMM
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August 12, 2015, 07:47:01 AM |
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That's scaring indeed. Who knows when will it stop falling and what will lead to
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Zarathustra
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August 12, 2015, 08:51:05 AM |
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"Spare us". Again? Spare me your collectivist 'us'-mentality! I have nothing to do with your us'ers.
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iCEBREAKER
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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
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August 12, 2015, 09:00:48 AM |
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At least two people incorrectly assumed and falsely claimed the on-topic Blockstream business plan post had been removed by mods
Moderation of off-topic posts is not censorship. Censorship is done by governments, moderation is done by mods. Duh!
Spare us the wailing about "censored posts" "authoritarianism" and "book burnings." It just makes you look like a child who never heard of Godwin.
"Spare us". Again? Spare me your collectivist 'us'-mentality! I have nothing to do with your us'ers. "Us" obviously refers to myself, and the mods being called "the epitome of authoritarian" and "ready for book burnings." Why would you possibly imagine *you* have anything to do with my post? Nobody cares what you think, much less what you are or not spared. ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
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| "The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." David Chaum 1996 "Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect." Adam Back 2014
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Erdogan
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August 12, 2015, 09:30:04 AM |
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I notice the OP there isn't adressing the issue that when Blockstream received their funding, LN wasn't yet around, so it's a bit hard to see how their business plan that got them 21 million USD could have relied on pushing people towards LN... Not hard at all. Update the business plan.
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Zangelbert Bingledack
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August 12, 2015, 10:05:15 AM |
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Agreed that crisis will force consensus. It's just that XT is part of that process, whether it serves the purpose of the new Bitcoin implementation or just the pressure that gets Core in gear.
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awemany
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August 12, 2015, 10:05:44 AM |
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It is resolved. We won. The devil lost.
Is this referring to the blocksize debate? I wouldn't call victory yet. We have pretty good chances to end the blockade and hijacking, but there is still a lot of convincing to do! I'll say we won when we have a thousand blocks or so on the high block limit chain.
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smooth
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August 12, 2015, 12:35:30 PM |
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sgbett
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August 12, 2015, 12:44:04 PM |
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Right, that would make sense until you realise in both cases (lightning and sidechains) these technologies need bigger blocks to scale. But before they need to scale, they just might need some help convincing potential users they are even necessary at all. Are you suggesting they are not? I'm suggesting that it is putting the cart before the horse. Let bitcoin scale. Let LN/Sidechains succeed on merit.
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"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution" - Satoshi Nakamoto*my posts are not investment advice*
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tvbcof
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August 12, 2015, 12:45:39 PM |
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Gold up. Cypherdoc collapsing.
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sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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brg444
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August 12, 2015, 12:57:32 PM |
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Right, that would make sense until you realise in both cases (lightning and sidechains) these technologies need bigger blocks to scale. But before they need to scale, they just might need some help convincing potential users they are even necessary at all. Are you suggesting they are not? I'm suggesting that it is putting the cart before the horse. Let bitcoin scale. Let LN/Sidechains succeed on merit. Have we not yet come to an agreement that raising the block size is not exactly a scaling solution?
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"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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HeliKopterBen
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August 12, 2015, 01:04:39 PM |
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More theoretical and idealogical bs
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Counterfeit: made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive: merriam-webster
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cypherdoc (OP)
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August 12, 2015, 01:10:10 PM |
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You are also aware that lightning is an open source project right? Nobody is forcing you to use it.
Being an open source project says next to nothing about lock-ins that are achieved by network effects on related services. You mean like how Red Hat has a lock-in on Linux related services, or Oracle with Java? Oh wait...maybe you meant like MyMonero.com? ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) All three of those are valid examples. All three likely have weaker network effects than lightning nodes. MyMonero has weakest network effects though. It doesn't have a thicket of related and dependent products to resist substitution. That's all arguable certainly. Seems the centralization/network effect of lightning nodes might not hold if Rusty gets his way... https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3gmkak/the_blockstream_business_plan/ctzz2jzThat's funny. I have a Cripplecoiner arguing with me right now about how my funding of multiple nodes does not increase decentralization as I am a single point of failure. Yet here we have the architects of LN wanting a single client to open 5 separate payment channels to do just that. Oh the hypocrisy!
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Erdogan
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August 12, 2015, 01:17:14 PM |
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Right, that would make sense until you realise in both cases (lightning and sidechains) these technologies need bigger blocks to scale. But before they need to scale, they just might need some help convincing potential users they are even necessary at all. Are you suggesting they are not? I'm suggesting that it is putting the cart before the horse. Let bitcoin scale. Let LN/Sidechains succeed on merit. Have we not yet come to an agreement that raising the block size is not exactly a scaling solution? Not at all. From the current situation, we can scale up probably 1000 x or more with larger blocks. I call that scaling.
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brg444
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August 12, 2015, 01:27:26 PM |
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That's funny. I have a Cripplecoiner arguing with me right now about how my funding of multiple nodes does not increase decentralization as I am a single point of failure. Yet here we have the architects of LN wanting a single client to open 5 separate payment channels to do just that.
Oh the hypocrisy!
As usual you are clearly lost on the concept and the technology. But carry on thinking whatever brain turd you come up with makes any sense! PS. It doesn't and you are so confused once again.
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"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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