[XMR] Monero Speculation

[owm123]

Oh no.. we gotta stop this conversation. We're tanking the price! 

Its good time to buy now:-)

[miragecash]

I think that it is for this reason, the world governments, especially the USA, being against privacy, that Monero would probably not be as widely accepted as Bitcoin, but that's not to say it won't be more widely accepted. It think Monero potentially can become as widely accepted as Litecoin.

The sad fact is that nobody cares about privacy. People are fat and complacent sheep. I asked all my friends and family to install an encrypted text message app and guess how many actually installed it? ZERO. It is a very easy to use app (Signal for iOS and textsecure for Android) so I don't understand why they won't do it.

I can understand not using encrpyted PGP email, even I cannot figure out how to install and use it!! But textsecure and Signal are easy to use, just like normal text messages.

Even in the American revolution, only 3 PERCENT fought or supported the revolution against the British. The other 97 percent just didn't care. Today, the percentage that just don't care is probably 99.9 percent. I remember, during the Vietnam war, there were massive anti-war protests. Where are these protests against the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan now? People just don't care.

That's why Snowden is a martyr and a superhero. Honestly, if I were him, I would've just shut up and accepted my $300,000 USD per year job working for the NSA. People just don't care about his sacrifice. He's basically under house arrest for life. For what? For the masses who don't care if they are enslaved sheep.

Anyways, my point is Monero will never be the next Bitcoin, but it could replace Litecoin because most people don't care about freedom and privacy. They just want to get fed, drive nice cars, and be fat and happy. Monero could increase greatly in value, maybe 10 to 20x in value, but not 1000 times the value.

P.S. Understand that this is not a knock against Monero. I like it a lot. I am actually programming an app for Monero for people to buy and sell stuff, just like ebay, but better because I want to offer services, too, not just the sales of goods. In order for Monero to be accepted, we have to be like Amir Taaki and code apps that increase the demand for Monero, just like Amir Taaki did for Bitcoin. I think Spagni's (fluffypony) new dice gambling site for Monero is a step in that direction.

The purpose of xmr is to protect one's privacy. This is at least my understanding. I dont view monero as a bitcoin killer or even a litecoin killer. Its there with one main purpose, to ensure everone a right to privacy. Not everyone cares about privacy. So bitcoin is not going anywhere anytime soon. But there are people that value their privacy. For them monero is a perfect solution.

Also, there is no reason to use monero for tax evasion, or to think about it as being desing for this purpose. In monero you have view keys, to disclose the transactions when needed. So a merchant or a person can keep their transactions privet from other merchants or people, but be fully transparent to tax office to which he/she can provide its view keys.

Companies and governments determine what money they accept, and what company or government is going to want a money that links them to all their activities for all time?

Yes, companies and governments decide, and they will not allow anonymous or even psedoanynomouse cruptocurrency to be "officially" used which is not controlled by government/company.

In Russia, for example, they already want to launch their own cyrpto, approved by government. The  "BitRuble will not be pseudo-anonymous like bitcoin due to the aforementioned Anti-Money Laundering (AML) and Know-Your-Customer (KYC) policies pursued by the regulator".

Its super easy for government to force ppl to use their 'own' cyryptocurrency. Its enough that they will pass laws requiring merchants to accept NSAcoin or whatever coin (or employers to pay salaries with such a coin) that the government can track and control.

Not every country will do this. Some countries that care about privacy (like Switzerland or something) might go the opposite way and embrace something like Monero in an attempt to attract privacy focused businesses (like shapeshift) who are seeking a new home.

In the future people may immigrate to new countries for privacy reasons.

Under the USA and EU pressure Switzerland has modified its legislation. They offer no more numbered accounts and they exchange client datum with USA and other countries.

Other offshore countries also begin accepting AEOI rules under USA pressure.

[owm123]

I think that it is for this reason, the world governments, especially the USA, being against privacy, that Monero would probably not be as widely accepted as Bitcoin, but that's not to say it won't be more widely accepted. It think Monero potentially can become as widely accepted as Litecoin.

The sad fact is that nobody cares about privacy. People are fat and complacent sheep. I asked all my friends and family to install an encrypted text message app and guess how many actually installed it? ZERO. It is a very easy to use app (Signal for iOS and textsecure for Android) so I don't understand why they won't do it.

I can understand not using encrpyted PGP email, even I cannot figure out how to install and use it!! But textsecure and Signal are easy to use, just like normal text messages.

Even in the American revolution, only 3 PERCENT fought or supported the revolution against the British. The other 97 percent just didn't care. Today, the percentage that just don't care is probably 99.9 percent. I remember, during the Vietnam war, there were massive anti-war protests. Where are these protests against the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan now? People just don't care.

That's why Snowden is a martyr and a superhero. Honestly, if I were him, I would've just shut up and accepted my $300,000 USD per year job working for the NSA. People just don't care about his sacrifice. He's basically under house arrest for life. For what? For the masses who don't care if they are enslaved sheep.

Anyways, my point is Monero will never be the next Bitcoin, but it could replace Litecoin because most people don't care about freedom and privacy. They just want to get fed, drive nice cars, and be fat and happy. Monero could increase greatly in value, maybe 10 to 20x in value, but not 1000 times the value.

P.S. Understand that this is not a knock against Monero. I like it a lot. I am actually programming an app for Monero for people to buy and sell stuff, just like ebay, but better because I want to offer services, too, not just the sales of goods. In order for Monero to be accepted, we have to be like Amir Taaki and code apps that increase the demand for Monero, just like Amir Taaki did for Bitcoin. I think Spagni's (fluffypony) new dice gambling site for Monero is a step in that direction.

You are absolutely right. Monero will never be number one, nor even number two or three, imo. But hopefully it will  be used by fraction of people and internet service providers who actually care about privacy. Just like tutanota or protnomail cant be number one or two among the email providers. The thing is, they dont have to be #1 or #2 to be profitable and successful. As long as there is a fraction of gmail and hotmail users to use them, they can be successful.

[smoothie]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

The laws in every country are different and will impact the decisions of companies like Bitpay. If enough companies start to blacklist BTC then the acceleration to alternatives such as Monero will accelerate

In the field of AML/KYC/Anti-terrorism all countries laws are relatively similar, so don`t expect that big companies will invest in stealth digital currencies. So stealth currencies will only be used in dark markets which is a very limited frame of usage.  

I think the same they were saying about bitcoin at the beginning. And off course it was and still is used for this. If it was used for legit purposes only, you wound not have any drama with anyone rejecting it or were required to mix coins to make it 'less tainted'.

And "encryption will only be used for illegal activity" - disregarding just about everyone benefitting from it today.

I suppose the point is that a thief beliefs everybody steals. Some are willing to forego all the benefits that come as long as the negative things are avoided (which they never are, and it is debatable to which degree different "negative things" really are that negative, such as dark net markets). Likely because they can't see the potential benefits and/or they will lose power from a change in status quo.

That logic is flawed as PRIVACY in the US and by the constitution is a RIGHT. It isn't illegal. Just BS politicians wanting to be nosy so they can peak into your privacy and see what you are doing as they dont want people to challenge the status quo.

[smoothie]

Oh no.. we gotta stop this conversation. We're tanking the price! 

I prefer the blocksize debate and the question of how a fee market can develop when there is no block subsidy. These are over the long term very serious issues in Bitcoin that are for the most part ignored. Monero has a working solution to both these issues right now. Furthermore Monero is the only POW coin in the top 20 that has a solution.

Let the price go down....time to get some cheap XMRs...NOM NOM NOM. 

[smoothie]

I think that it is for this reason, the world governments, especially the USA, being against privacy, that Monero would probably not be as widely accepted as Bitcoin, but that's not to say it won't be more widely accepted. It think Monero potentially can become as widely accepted as Litecoin.

The sad fact is that nobody cares about privacy. People are fat and complacent sheep. I asked all my friends and family to install an encrypted text message app and guess how many actually installed it? ZERO. It is a very easy to use app (Signal for iOS and textsecure for Android) so I don't understand why they won't do it.

I can understand not using encrpyted PGP email, even I cannot figure out how to install and use it!! But textsecure and Signal are easy to use, just like normal text messages.

Even in the American revolution, only 3 PERCENT fought or supported the revolution against the British. The other 97 percent just didn't care. Today, the percentage that just don't care is probably 99.9 percent. I remember, during the Vietnam war, there were massive anti-war protests. Where are these protests against the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan now? People just don't care.

That's why Snowden is a martyr and a superhero. Honestly, if I were him, I would've just shut up and accepted my $300,000 USD per year job working for the NSA. People just don't care about his sacrifice. He's basically under house arrest for life. For what? For the masses who don't care if they are enslaved sheep.

Anyways, my point is Monero will never be the next Bitcoin, but it could replace Litecoin because most people don't care about freedom and privacy. They just want to get fed, drive nice cars, and be fat and happy. Monero could increase greatly in value, maybe 10 to 20x in value, but not 1000 times the value.

P.S. Understand that this is not a knock against Monero. I like it a lot. I am actually programming an app for Monero for people to buy and sell stuff, just like ebay, but better because I want to offer services, too, not just the sales of goods. In order for Monero to be accepted, we have to be like Amir Taaki and code apps that increase the demand for Monero, just like Amir Taaki did for Bitcoin. I think Spagni's (fluffypony) new dice gambling site for Monero is a step in that direction.

The purpose of xmr is to protect one's privacy. This is at least my understanding. I dont view monero as a bitcoin killer or even a litecoin killer. Its there with one main purpose, to ensure everone a right to privacy. Not everyone cares about privacy. So bitcoin is not going anywhere anytime soon. But there are people that value their privacy. For them monero is a perfect solution.

Also, there is no reason to use monero for tax evasion, or to think about it as being desing for this purpose. In monero you have view keys, to disclose the transactions when needed. So a merchant or a person can keep their transactions privet from other merchants or people, but be fully transparent to tax office to which he/she can provide its view keys.

Companies and governments determine what money they accept, and what company or government is going to want a money that links them to all their activities for all time?

Yes, companies and governments decide, and they will not allow anonymous or even psedoanynomouse cruptocurrency to be "officially" used which is not controlled by government/company.

In Russia, for example, they already want to launch their own cyrpto, approved by government. The  "BitRuble will not be pseudo-anonymous like bitcoin due to the aforementioned Anti-Money Laundering (AML) and Know-Your-Customer (KYC) policies pursued by the regulator".

Its super easy for government to force ppl to use their 'own' cyryptocurrency. Its enough that they will pass laws requiring merchants to accept NSAcoin or whatever coin (or employers to pay salaries with such a coin) that the government can track and control.

Not every country will do this. Some countries that care about privacy (like Switzerland or something) might go the opposite way and embrace something like Monero in an attempt to attract privacy focused businesses (like shapeshift) who are seeking a new home.

In the future people may immigrate to new countries for privacy reasons.

Under the USA and EU pressure Switzerland has modified its legislation. They offer no more numbered accounts and they exchange client datum with USA and other countries.

Other offshore countries also begin accepting AEOI rules under USA pressure.

What that says in BOLD is that you only need a small % to actually be on the front lines, stand up for their rights and face the establishment head on and changes will happen in a vast way.

The goal is not to convert 99% of the population to how we think in the crypto community (outside of speculation ) but in terms of monetary sovereignty and freedom.

The goal is to convert a small 5%-7% that GET IT and let those bright minds and bold souls push a revolution forward.

Another point is I disagree...the price of monero in fiat currency is irrelevant ultimately as the fiat system is broken. So when you say that the VALUE increases if you mean in respect to goods and services (i.e. it can buy 10-20 times more STUFF) then i agree with you.

Measuring crypto prices in fiat sometimes gets the best of us. Measuring it in commodities like land, gold, silver, corn etc...that will give you an accurate gauge of how MONERO is  changing in value.

[smoothie]

I guess the monero bull run is not in play...

more time for people to accumulate.

[owm123]

And "encryption will only be used for illegal activity" - disregarding just about everyone benefitting from it today.

I suppose the point is that a thief beliefs everybody steals. Some are willing to forego all the benefits that come as long as the negative things are avoided (which they never are, and it is debatable to which degree different "negative things" really are that negative, such as dark net markets). Likely because they can't see the potential benefits and/or they will lose power from a change in status quo.

That logic is flawed as PRIVACY in the US and by the constitution is a RIGHT. It isn't illegal. Just BS politicians wanting to be nosy so they can peak into your privacy and see what you are doing as they dont want people to challenge the status quo.

Encryption and privacy are ok as long as "U.S. tech companies keep a key to that encrypted communication for legitimate law enforcement purposes". This is opposite to what encryption should be, but continuing in this vain, monero could be used in usa as long as feds or tax office have access to your view keys.

[smooth]

And "encryption will only be used for illegal activity" - disregarding just about everyone benefitting from it today.

I suppose the point is that a thief beliefs everybody steals. Some are willing to forego all the benefits that come as long as the negative things are avoided (which they never are, and it is debatable to which degree different "negative things" really are that negative, such as dark net markets). Likely because they can't see the potential benefits and/or they will lose power from a change in status quo.

That logic is flawed as PRIVACY in the US and by the constitution is a RIGHT. It isn't illegal. Just BS politicians wanting to be nosy so they can peak into your privacy and see what you are doing as they dont want people to challenge the status quo.

Encryption and privacy are ok as long as "U.S. tech companies keep a key to that encrypted communication for legitimate law enforcement purposes". This is opposite to what encryption should be, but continuing in this vain, monero could be used in usa as long as feds or tax office have access to your view keys.

The enormous difference is the latter requires getting the data from end users. "U.S. tech companies keep a key" is more like PRISM where millions or billions of people's data is just handed over by a dozen or so big companies.

[americanpegasus]

Not much time, but let me summarize the above arguments:
  
99% of future 'Americans' did not care about the founding of America.  
  
Because of this fact, and also that this new America concept is a radical departure from the established norms, it is probable that America will never be a number one country, but maybe it can be of smaller significance.  

[opennux]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

The laws in every country are different and will impact the decisions of companies like Bitpay. If enough companies start to blacklist BTC then the acceleration to alternatives such as Monero will accelerate

In the field of AML/KYC/Anti-terrorism all countries laws are relatively similar, so don`t expect that big companies will invest in stealth digital currencies. So stealth currencies will only be used in dark markets which is a very limited frame of usage.  

I think the same they were saying about bitcoin at the beginning. And off course it was and still is used for this. If it was used for legit purposes only, you wound not have any drama with anyone rejecting it or were required to mix coins to make it 'less tainted'.

And "encryption will only be used for illegal activity" - disregarding just about everyone benefitting from it today.

I suppose the point is that a thief beliefs everybody steals. Some are willing to forego all the benefits that come as long as the negative things are avoided (which they never are, and it is debatable to which degree different "negative things" really are that negative, such as dark net markets). Likely because they can't see the potential benefits and/or they will lose power from a change in status quo.

That logic is flawed as PRIVACY in the US and by the constitution is a RIGHT. It isn't illegal. Just BS politicians wanting to be nosy so they can peak into your privacy and see what you are doing as they dont want people to challenge the status quo.

A right is something that is given to you. It can be taken away from you at a whim. Don't be fooled. Besides, many things that are unconstitutional has already happened and many more will happen. Not just related to things that violate the rights of average joe, but especially things that relate to the rights of activists or in this case crypto-enthusiasts.

[owm123]

xmr is bellow 0.0019 btc now. Do you think it will get bellow 0.0018 or even lower soon?

[smoothie]

And "encryption will only be used for illegal activity" - disregarding just about everyone benefitting from it today.

I suppose the point is that a thief beliefs everybody steals. Some are willing to forego all the benefits that come as long as the negative things are avoided (which they never are, and it is debatable to which degree different "negative things" really are that negative, such as dark net markets). Likely because they can't see the potential benefits and/or they will lose power from a change in status quo.

That logic is flawed as PRIVACY in the US and by the constitution is a RIGHT. It isn't illegal. Just BS politicians wanting to be nosy so they can peak into your privacy and see what you are doing as they dont want people to challenge the status quo.

Encryption and privacy are ok as long as "U.S. tech companies keep a key to that encrypted communication for legitimate law enforcement purposes". This is opposite to what encryption should be, but continuing in this vain, monero could be used in usa as long as feds or tax office have access to your view keys.

Here is a noteworthy read:

I may be slightly wrong in my presumption depending upon your own interpretation of what the constitution says and what it means and encompasses: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightofprivacy.html

What I find funny is because governments can't break certain encryption algorithms they say "no fair! You need to help us by giving us your keys for decrypting".

[smoothie]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

The laws in every country are different and will impact the decisions of companies like Bitpay. If enough companies start to blacklist BTC then the acceleration to alternatives such as Monero will accelerate

In the field of AML/KYC/Anti-terrorism all countries laws are relatively similar, so don`t expect that big companies will invest in stealth digital currencies. So stealth currencies will only be used in dark markets which is a very limited frame of usage.  

I think the same they were saying about bitcoin at the beginning. And off course it was and still is used for this. If it was used for legit purposes only, you wound not have any drama with anyone rejecting it or were required to mix coins to make it 'less tainted'.

And "encryption will only be used for illegal activity" - disregarding just about everyone benefitting from it today.

I suppose the point is that a thief beliefs everybody steals. Some are willing to forego all the benefits that come as long as the negative things are avoided (which they never are, and it is debatable to which degree different "negative things" really are that negative, such as dark net markets). Likely because they can't see the potential benefits and/or they will lose power from a change in status quo.

That logic is flawed as PRIVACY in the US and by the constitution is a RIGHT. It isn't illegal. Just BS politicians wanting to be nosy so they can peak into your privacy and see what you are doing as they dont want people to challenge the status quo.

A right is something that is given to you. It can be taken away from you at a whim. Don't be fooled. Besides, many things that are unconstitutional has already happened and many more will happen. Not just related to things that violate the rights of average joe, but especially things that relate to the rights of activists or in this case crypto-enthusiasts.

Yes we live in a F'ed up world.

[illodin]

time to get some cheap XMRs...

more time for people to accumulate.

Oldies but goldies.. check here for some new material to keep it fresh: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1059045.0

[owm123]

That logic is flawed as PRIVACY in the US and by the constitution is a RIGHT. It isn't illegal. Just BS politicians wanting to be nosy so they can peak into your privacy and see what you are doing as they dont want people to challenge the status quo.

A right is something that is given to you. It can be taken away from you at a whim. Don't be fooled. Besides, many things that are unconstitutional has already happened and many more will happen. Not just related to things that violate the rights of average joe, but especially things that relate to the rights of activists or in this case crypto-enthusiasts.

Yes we live in a F'ed up world.

Yes we do. And its not going to get any better any time soon. More and more gov and feds will want to spy on everyone. Everything that helps a little bit to minimize this is good. For example, you can protect your internet using vpn or tor, your pc using linux or freebsd, emails and chats using end-to-end encryption, and financial transactions using anon coins.

[Hueristic]

...

That logic is flawed as PRIVACY in the US and by the constitution is a RIGHT. It isn't illegal. Just BS politicians wanting to be nosy so they can peak into your privacy and see what you are doing as they dont want people to challenge the status quo.

It's all about control, taking the tools away with which you would mount an challenge to the status quo is the objective. Remember your not a "Patriot" unless you give up your constitutional rights.

[dEBRUYNE]

I think that it is for this reason, the world governments, especially the USA, being against privacy, that Monero would probably not be as widely accepted as Bitcoin, but that's not to say it won't be more widely accepted. It think Monero potentially can become as widely accepted as Litecoin.

The sad fact is that nobody cares about privacy. People are fat and complacent sheep. I asked all my friends and family to install an encrypted text message app and guess how many actually installed it? ZERO. It is a very easy to use app (Signal for iOS and textsecure for Android) so I don't understand why they won't do it.

I can understand not using encrpyted PGP email, even I cannot figure out how to install and use it!! But textsecure and Signal are easy to use, just like normal text messages.

Even in the American revolution, only 3 PERCENT fought or supported the revolution against the British. The other 97 percent just didn't care. Today, the percentage that just don't care is probably 99.9 percent. I remember, during the Vietnam war, there were massive anti-war protests. Where are these protests against the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan now? People just don't care.

That's why Snowden is a martyr and a superhero. Honestly, if I were him, I would've just shut up and accepted my $300,000 USD per year job working for the NSA. People just don't care about his sacrifice. He's basically under house arrest for life. For what? For the masses who don't care if they are enslaved sheep.

Anyways, my point is Monero will never be the next Bitcoin, but it could replace Litecoin because most people don't care about freedom and privacy. They just want to get fed, drive nice cars, and be fat and happy. Monero could increase greatly in value, maybe 10 to 20x in value, but not 1000 times the value.

P.S. Understand that this is not a knock against Monero. I like it a lot. I am actually programming an app for Monero for people to buy and sell stuff, just like ebay, but better because I want to offer services, too, not just the sales of goods. In order for Monero to be accepted, we have to be like Amir Taaki and code apps that increase the demand for Monero, just like Amir Taaki did for Bitcoin. I think Spagni's (fluffypony) new dice gambling site for Monero is a step in that direction.

Follow this guide and you should manage to make it work -> https://99bitcoins.com/pgp-encryption-a-beginners-guide/. Good post btw :-)

[cAPSLOCK]

time to get some cheap XMRs...

more time for people to accumulate.

Oldies but goldies.. check here for some new material to keep it fresh: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1059045.0

Great link!

I found this one particularly apropos...

Just look over the threads of some of the latest coins with the "mighty" masternodes and you will probably find few new expressions.

[iCEBREAKER]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

I can't answer your question because I reject the premise that Bitpay and Coinbase are "legit merchant processors."

Like Circle, they represent the bad old ways of TPTB, and are thus the opposite of "legit."

To believe and/or act otherwise is to reject Ranvier's Razor:

Code:

Anyone who isn’t actively working to expand and empower the informal economy is wasting their time.