Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Syke]

Of course its about the $ value

How would you feel about ROI on miner hardware if the reverse was true?

If you had paid 100 BTC for a miner when BTC was worth $100

You mined 101 BTC but BTC value dropped to $50

Would you say you have made a ROI?

Yes! More BTC than you started with is a profit. Less BTC than you started with is a loss.

[plasmoske]

Used to be about 540-560GH/s on my hosted Jup. Now after the latest update, seems to now dropped to 490-500GH/s.

Kinda shitty. Needs for a way to opt in or out of firmware updates. They just seem to mass apply it to all hosted miners.

Agreed. On a side note, KNC Pool speed is currently 2.8TH/s.

They moved over to Eligius with about 33TH/s of hashing power. Seems like their pool wasn't good enough. Software suck and not enough hashing power.

And yes that 0.98.1 has dwindling down problems... big time. It'll start off at max and after 12 hours or so, you'll lose like 80-100GH/s.
I've emailed knc support but not sure if they'll reply back or even help downgrade my miner back to .98

[AFox]

interesting, did you try the 0.98.1 beta by any chance?
My results seem best with it, over the production 0.98.1, or any other.....
just asking...

I only tried with the official 0.98.1 not with the beta.
I don't really want to try it.

[ASIC-K]

interesting, did you try the 0.98.1 beta by any chance?
My results seem best with it, over the production 0.98.1, or any other.....
just asking...

I only tried with the official 0.98.1 not with the beta.
I don't really want to try it.

i can also confirm the beta is WAY better. i am not changing from it, my mercury is running at max

[Tehfiend]

So then you agree he should be glad the exchange rate increased, not that he bought a Jupiter?

first, OFCOURSE the exchange rate plays a huge part but that is just one of the moving pieces. purchased equipment, mined btc, sold btc, paid off all equipment and now can continue mining for profit.  sounds perfect.   could have bet his cash at a casino and have more or less money today.    the point is, equipment is paid off and now climbing into the profits!  

Yes when you buy a miner you are also investing in an predicted amount of BTC over a period of time instead of an exact amount you could invest in directly and sell at any point. Two different kinds of investment to choose from. So when measuring the success of an investment in a Jupiter you have two factors to consider. If you made less BTC than you could have purchased, then the miner was a poor investment. If you made more fiat than you spent on the miner then you made a good investment in BTC. People have a hard time accepting when they made a bad investment and choose to ignore the first and focus on the second. Yes we should be happy we made a fiat profit but don't fool yourself that it was because you invested in a Jupiter.

The same would be true with the opposite. If the exchange rate crashed but you made more BTC then the miner investment was good but the BTC investment was bad. People can gauge their success however they want but it is smart to be realistic and learn from the true cause and effect of your losses and gains.

[huadylmate]

If you had paid 100 BTC for a miner when BTC was worth $100

You mined 101 BTC but BTC value dropped to $50

Would you say you have made a ROI? I'd say not.

So if you didnt buy miner, you would still had only 100 BTC, it is less than 101 BTC in your example  

But obviously if we knew future, we would sell the BTC before the price drops  

[AFox]

interesting, did you try the 0.98.1 beta by any chance?
My results seem best with it, over the production 0.98.1, or any other.....
just asking...

I only tried with the official 0.98.1 not with the beta.
I don't really want to try it.

i can also confirm the beta is WAY better. i am not changing from it, my mercury is running at max

OK then, lets give it a try.

[Rampion]

Of course its about the $ value

How would you feel about ROI on miner hardware if the reverse was true?

If you had paid 100 BTC for a miner when BTC was worth $100

You mined 101 BTC but BTC value dropped to $50

Would you say you have made a ROI?

Yes! More BTC than you started with is a profit. Less BTC than you started with is a loss.

Exactly. It's incredible how is so difficult for some people to understand such simple concepts: You are buying a machine that mines bitcoins. If it mines less bitcoins than you have paid for it (or that you could have bought when you paid for the machine), then you did bad.

[Nemo1024]

Is there a way to see which firmware is installed on a hosted unit? The graph on Eligius was all over the place, even dropping by 200GHs for short periods of time since yesterday.

[CYPER]

Of course its about the $ value

How would you feel about ROI on miner hardware if the reverse was true?

If you had paid 100 BTC for a miner when BTC was worth $100

You mined 101 BTC but BTC value dropped to $50

Would you say you have made a ROI?

Yes! More BTC than you started with is a profit. Less BTC than you started with is a loss.

Exactly. It's incredible how is so difficult for some people to understand such simple concepts: You are buying a machine that mines bitcoins. If it mines less bitcoins than you have paid for it (or that you could have bought when you paid for the machine), then you did bad.

So I paid 7000USD for a Jupiter and if by any miracle I mine and sell BTC for 14000USD then I did bad?

[Rampion]

Of course its about the $ value

How would you feel about ROI on miner hardware if the reverse was true?

If you had paid 100 BTC for a miner when BTC was worth $100

You mined 101 BTC but BTC value dropped to $50

Would you say you have made a ROI?

Yes! More BTC than you started with is a profit. Less BTC than you started with is a loss.

Exactly. It's incredible how is so difficult for some people to understand such simple concepts: You are buying a machine that mines bitcoins. If it mines less bitcoins than you have paid for it (or that you could have bought when you paid for the machine), then you did bad.

So I paid 7000USD for a Jupiter and if by any miracle I mine and sell BTC for 14000USD then I did bad?

It depends on how many coins you spent on it, or on how many coins you could have bought with 7000USD when you paid for the unit.

Most of batch 1 customers bought their units in June, when BTC/USD was at $100, that means aprox. 70 coins per unit.

If a batch 1 Jupiter mines less than 70 coins in its lifetime then yes, batch 1 customers would have been better by buying BTC.

All the above is painfully obvious, and still some deny the obvious.

[Templer]

consider the BTC/$ price when you purchased your miner...how many $ you had now when you bought BTC instead of a miner?

[ASIC-K]

until you are living your life entirely on bitcoin, not making the full btc you spent back means fuck all. Life runs on fiat right now and thats the ROI that actually matters.

[CYPER]

Of course its about the $ value

How would you feel about ROI on miner hardware if the reverse was true?

If you had paid 100 BTC for a miner when BTC was worth $100

You mined 101 BTC but BTC value dropped to $50

Would you say you have made a ROI?

Yes! More BTC than you started with is a profit. Less BTC than you started with is a loss.

Exactly. It's incredible how is so difficult for some people to understand such simple concepts: You are buying a machine that mines bitcoins. If it mines less bitcoins than you have paid for it (or that you could have bought when you paid for the machine), then you did bad.

So I paid 7000USD for a Jupiter and if by any miracle I mine and sell BTC for 14000USD then I did bad?

It depends on how many coins you spent on it, or on how many coins you could have bought with 7000USD when you paid for the unit.

Most of batch 1 customers bought their units in June, when BTC/USD was at $100, that means aprox. 70 coins per unit.

If a batch 1 Jupiter mines less than 70 coins in its lifetime then yes, batch 1 customers would have been better by buying BTC.

All the above is painfully obvious, and still some deny the obvious.

Do you understand the difference between bad, worse and worst?
Is English your native language?

[Tigggger]

It's going to be damn close to BTC break even by the end of 6 months of hosting. By then I'll have around the same BTC that I would have had purchasing them AND a piece of history (The Jupiters). They may even still be profitable then and continue mining

And that is the criteria that should be used, glad we agree

So I paid 7000USD for a Jupiter and if by any miracle I mine and sell BTC for 14000USD then I did bad?

It's not bad, but the profit has come from the rising BTC/$ rate not from the Jupiter. Any hardware needs to be valued in the number of BTC it cost and the number it gives you back.

until you are living your life entirely on bitcoin, not making the full btc you spent back means fuck all. Life runs on fiat right now and thats the ROI that actually matters.

And if you keep thinking that way, you'll end up poorer.  Think of it all in $ terms. Imagine it's a $ mining machine. You have $100 in your pocket, I will sell you a machine that makes $1 coins, if you buy it and it only gives you 60 coins it was a bad investment, if it made 120 it was good

[Tehfiend]

Of course its about the $ value

How would you feel about ROI on miner hardware if the reverse was true?

If you had paid 100 BTC for a miner when BTC was worth $100

You mined 101 BTC but BTC value dropped to $50

Would you say you have made a ROI?

Yes! More BTC than you started with is a profit. Less BTC than you started with is a loss.

Exactly. It's incredible how is so difficult for some people to understand such simple concepts: You are buying a machine that mines bitcoins. If it mines less bitcoins than you have paid for it (or that you could have bought when you paid for the machine), then you did bad.

So I paid 7000USD for a Jupiter and if by any miracle I mine and sell BTC for 14000USD then I did bad?

Your investment in BTC would be good but your investment in the miner would be bad since you could have invested in MORE BTC for the same price directly with more flexibility to sell.

[CYPER]

It's not bad, but the profit has come from the rising BTC/$ rate not from the Jupiter. Any hardware needs to be valued in the number of BTC it cost and the number it gives you back.

Exactly
And this is why Rampion is wrong, because he is saying it is bad.
No, it is not bad, just worse than buying BTC and keeping them.

[Tehfiend]

It's not bad, but the profit has come from the rising BTC/$ rate not from the Jupiter. Any hardware needs to be valued in the number of BTC it cost and the number it gives you back.

Exactly
And this is why Rampion is wrong, because he is saying it is bad.
No, it is not bad, just worse than buying BTC and keeping them.

He's only saying that the investment in the miner was bad. Not the investment in BTC.

[Syke]

until you are living your life entirely on bitcoin, not making the full btc you spent back means fuck all. Life runs on fiat right now and thats the ROI that actually matters.

Good point. Guess how you get more fiat? Get more BTC! Don't ever invest in something that gives you less BTC!

[CYPER]

Your investment in BTC would be good but your investment in the miner would be bad since you could have invested in MORE BTC for the same price directly with more flexibility to sell.

So hypothetically you consider a 7000USD investment, that gets you 100% ROI a bad one?