Bitcoin Forum
July 04, 2022, 03:27:56 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 23.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 [141] 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 ... 371 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff]  (Read 836762 times)
conspirosphere.tk
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064


Bitcoin is antisemitic


View Profile
April 29, 2013, 09:11:09 AM
 #2801

I would like some numbers about the pool's luck (in the last day/week/long term/current block), or a line of the actual luck compared with the expected instead of all those dots.
1656905276
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1656905276

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1656905276
Reply with quote  #2

1656905276
Report to moderator
1656905276
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1656905276

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1656905276
Reply with quote  #2

1656905276
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1656905276
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1656905276

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1656905276
Reply with quote  #2

1656905276
Report to moderator
1656905276
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1656905276

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1656905276
Reply with quote  #2

1656905276
Report to moderator
1656905276
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1656905276

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1656905276
Reply with quote  #2

1656905276
Report to moderator
organofcorti
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007


Poor impulse control.


View Profile WWW
April 29, 2013, 11:42:27 AM
 #2802

I would like some numbers about the pool's luck (in the last day/week/long term/current block), or a line of the actual luck compared with the expected instead of all those dots.

A line of actual luck won't tell you anything unless you can compare it to something - for example a confidence interval of likely "luck" values. For the dots, if they look widely distributed and not bunched up the top or the bottom, then that's normal "luck".

The only accurate way to measure "luck" over a period of time to to work out the negative binomial CDF for the combined shares submitted for the combined blocks solved. Using that measure, BitMinter's weekly "luck" over the last months hasn't been outside the expected range.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
follow @oocBlog for new post notifications
mdude77
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1540
Merit: 1001



View Profile
April 30, 2013, 12:24:54 AM
 #2803

I would like some numbers about the pool's luck (in the last day/week/long term/current block), or a line of the actual luck compared with the expected instead of all those dots.

A line of actual luck won't tell you anything unless you can compare it to something - for example a confidence interval of likely "luck" values. For the dots, if they look widely distributed and not bunched up the top or the bottom, then that's normal "luck".

The only accurate way to measure "luck" over a period of time to to work out the negative binomial CDF for the combined shares submitted for the combined blocks solved. Using that measure, BitMinter's weekly "luck" over the last months hasn't been outside the expected range.

He's not the only one who has a hard time understanding the dot chart.  I like the way Ozcoin does it, very clear and shows performance vs luck.  I struggle every time I look at Bitminter's chart and I'm never sure I see anything useful in it.

M

I mine at Kano's Pool because it pays the best and is completely transparent!  Come join me!
organofcorti
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007


Poor impulse control.


View Profile WWW
April 30, 2013, 12:31:26 AM
 #2804

I would like some numbers about the pool's luck (in the last day/week/long term/current block), or a line of the actual luck compared with the expected instead of all those dots.

A line of actual luck won't tell you anything unless you can compare it to something - for example a confidence interval of likely "luck" values. For the dots, if they look widely distributed and not bunched up the top or the bottom, then that's normal "luck".

The only accurate way to measure "luck" over a period of time to to work out the negative binomial CDF for the combined shares submitted for the combined blocks solved. Using that measure, BitMinter's weekly "luck" over the last months hasn't been outside the expected range.

He's not the only one who has a hard time understanding the dot chart.  I like the way Ozcoin does it, very clear and shows performance vs luck.  I struggle every time I look at Bitminter's chart and I'm never sure I see anything useful in it.

M

It's a  toss up between usability an misinterpretability.  BitMinter's stats can't be misinterpreted but there's a minimum of knowledge you need (basic uni level stats) before you can understand it.

Ozcoin's  charts are more intuitively understandable, but much more easily misinterpreted to mean something that they don't since there's no way to know if a long round is unusually long or not.

Edit: The reason you don't "see anything useful" is probably because the "luck" has not been at all unusual for BitMinter. You'd see something useful if something unusual was happening.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
follow @oocBlog for new post notifications
mdude77
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1540
Merit: 1001



View Profile
April 30, 2013, 12:55:16 AM
 #2805

I would like some numbers about the pool's luck (in the last day/week/long term/current block), or a line of the actual luck compared with the expected instead of all those dots.

A line of actual luck won't tell you anything unless you can compare it to something - for example a confidence interval of likely "luck" values. For the dots, if they look widely distributed and not bunched up the top or the bottom, then that's normal "luck".

The only accurate way to measure "luck" over a period of time to to work out the negative binomial CDF for the combined shares submitted for the combined blocks solved. Using that measure, BitMinter's weekly "luck" over the last months hasn't been outside the expected range.

He's not the only one who has a hard time understanding the dot chart.  I like the way Ozcoin does it, very clear and shows performance vs luck.  I struggle every time I look at Bitminter's chart and I'm never sure I see anything useful in it.

M

It's a  toss up between usability an misinterpretability.  BitMinter's stats can't be misinterpreted but there's a minimum of knowledge you need (basic uni level stats) before you can understand it.

Ozcoin's  charts are more intuitively understandable, but much more easily misinterpreted to mean something that they don't since there's no way to know if a long round is unusually long or not.

Edit: The reason you don't "see anything useful" is probably because the "luck" has not been at all unusual for BitMinter. You'd see something useful if something unusual was happening.


The only thing I remember from statistics is they can be made to prove whatever you want to prove. Smiley

M

I mine at Kano's Pool because it pays the best and is completely transparent!  Come join me!
organofcorti
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007


Poor impulse control.


View Profile WWW
April 30, 2013, 01:14:43 AM
 #2806

I would like some numbers about the pool's luck (in the last day/week/long term/current block), or a line of the actual luck compared with the expected instead of all those dots.

A line of actual luck won't tell you anything unless you can compare it to something - for example a confidence interval of likely "luck" values. For the dots, if they look widely distributed and not bunched up the top or the bottom, then that's normal "luck".

The only accurate way to measure "luck" over a period of time to to work out the negative binomial CDF for the combined shares submitted for the combined blocks solved. Using that measure, BitMinter's weekly "luck" over the last months hasn't been outside the expected range.

He's not the only one who has a hard time understanding the dot chart.  I like the way Ozcoin does it, very clear and shows performance vs luck.  I struggle every time I look at Bitminter's chart and I'm never sure I see anything useful in it.

M

It's a  toss up between usability an misinterpretability.  BitMinter's stats can't be misinterpreted but there's a minimum of knowledge you need (basic uni level stats) before you can understand it.

Ozcoin's  charts are more intuitively understandable, but much more easily misinterpreted to mean something that they don't since there's no way to know if a long round is unusually long or not.

Edit: The reason you don't "see anything useful" is probably because the "luck" has not been at all unusual for BitMinter. You'd see something useful if something unusual was happening.


The only thing I remember from statistics is they can be made to prove whatever you want to prove. Smiley

M

Just as well we're talking about probability and not statistics Tongue

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
follow @oocBlog for new post notifications
GuiltySpark343
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98
Merit: 10



View Profile
April 30, 2013, 05:07:01 PM
 #2807

Why is my payout so low?

I'm doing about 2 GH/s, and with other pools I have earned about 0.1 to 0.12 BTC/day. But I mined for a whole day on BitMinter and only earned 0.036 BTC.

Any ideas why so little earned?

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Ƀ:17wbDetEw2aESM5oWXbm5ih9NSdDruyWNT
Isokivi
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 910
Merit: 1000


Items flashing here available at btctrinkets.com


View Profile WWW
April 30, 2013, 05:08:29 PM
 #2808

Why is my payout so low?

I'm doing about 2 GH/s, and with other pools I have earned about 0.1 to 0.12 BTC/day. But I mined for a whole day on BitMinter and only earned 0.036 BTC.

Any ideas why so little earned?

https://bitminter.com/blocks

Luck has been bad for the past day, as usual variance.

[edit]

With current hashrate of 5910140Mhps and difficulty of 10076292.8834

Bitminter should hit just under 12 blocks a day on average.

Bitcoin trinkets now on my online store: btc trinkets.com <- Bitcoin Tiepins, cufflinks, lapel pins, keychains, card holders and challenge coins.
Turbor
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000


BitMinter


View Profile WWW
April 30, 2013, 05:26:34 PM
 #2809

Why is my payout so low?

I'm doing about 2 GH/s, and with other pools I have earned about 0.1 to 0.12 BTC/day. But I mined for a whole day on BitMinter and only earned 0.036 BTC.

Any ideas why so little earned?

Just give it some time.

DrHaribo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2716
Merit: 1034


Bitminter.com Operator


View Profile WWW
May 01, 2013, 10:36:09 PM
 #2810

There's a lot of support requests lately from newbies and ex-PPS miners who mined 12 or 24 hours on BitMinter and were horrified by low payouts. Some even think I am scamming them.

Short version: BitMinter pays you much more than most pools in the long run, but there may be some days with low payouts and payouts are delayed several hours after you do some work.

Long explanation:

DELAY: On BitMinter your work gets paid when we find new blocks as long as it is in one of the 10 latest shifts. Since 10 shifts take about 7.5 hours currently, that's how long it takes for your work to be fully paid. If you also turned off the prepay perk then you must wait for the blocks to be confirmed as well before you get income from them. That takes about 20 hours.

VARIANCE: In addition to this there is variance when mining with a PPLNS reward system. This means you get high payouts on a lucky day (when we find many blocks) and low payouts on an unlucky day.

BOTTOM LINE: Over time you will make more money mining with 1% fee on BitMinter than 5% fee on a PPS pool. If the occassional low payout makes you nervous then you may want to go with a PPS pool, even if you lose a lot of money in the long run. But remember that PPS pools in general don't pay out transaction fees, so you lose 1% to 2% more. Most don't have namecoins, so you lose over 8% there too (with current namecoin prices).

What looks like a 5% fee is then in reality a 15% fee. That is NOT better pay than BitMinter.

There's 3 reasons to choose a 15% fee over a 1% fee:
1. You desperately need the payout very quickly
2. You don't want money
3. You don't understand how the reward systems work

If it is #1 or #2 then fine. But please don't switch to a 15% fee pool because you don't yet understand what's going on.

If you thought you were shocked at the payouts when you didn't realize there's a delay, imagine my surprise at seeing miners pay a 15% fee with a big smile on their face while they tell me that my payouts suck. It boggles the mind.

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com 2011-2020
willphase
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 768
Merit: 500


View Profile
May 01, 2013, 11:06:48 PM
 #2811

Most don't have namecoins, so you lose over 8% there too (with current namecoin prices).

In fact, closer to 11% Smiley - source.

Will

GuiltySpark343
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98
Merit: 10



View Profile
May 02, 2013, 02:14:03 AM
 #2812

Where is a reputable place to exchange Namecoin for BTC or fiat?

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Ƀ:17wbDetEw2aESM5oWXbm5ih9NSdDruyWNT
Epoch
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 922
Merit: 1003



View Profile
May 02, 2013, 02:14:47 AM
 #2813

Where is a reputable place to exchange Namecoin for BTC or fiat?
https://btc-e.com/
LazyOtto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 250


View Profile
May 02, 2013, 02:22:55 AM
 #2814

Where is a reputable place to exchange Namecoin for BTC or fiat?
https://btc-e.com/
I have used btc-e.com to convert NMC to BTC.
juhakall
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 655
Merit: 250



View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 04:01:21 AM
 #2815

I can only agree with what DrHaribo explained above. Shift-based PPLNS is a very good payout method that is fair (hopping-proof) and has no risk for the pool operator. Because variance is experienced by users, not by the pool operator, DrHaribo can keep the fee very low. The method is also very easy to understand, compared to DGM. To be honest, I haven't looked into the newer methods with capped payouts, backpay or whatever. PPLNS works very well, and I've yet to hear anyone point out an actual flaw in it, only complaints that stem from misunderstanding.

organofcorti
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007


Poor impulse control.


View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 04:33:16 AM
 #2816

......and I've yet to hear anyone point out an actual flaw in it, only complaints that stem from misunderstanding.

PPLNS has no vowels in it. That's a flaw from my point of view. Makes it hard to pronounce. It's a flaw all reward methods (apart from PoT) seem to have, CPPSRB being the worst offender.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
follow @oocBlog for new post notifications
juhakall
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 655
Merit: 250



View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 05:14:47 AM
 #2817

PPLNS has no vowels in it. That's a flaw from my point of view. Makes it hard to pronounce. It's a flaw all reward methods (apart from PoT) seem to have, CPPSRB being the worst offender.

Oh, now I see why the proportional method still has some support.

Newar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000


https://gliph.me/hUF


View Profile
May 02, 2013, 05:17:22 AM
 #2818

I would like some numbers about the pool's luck (in the last day/week/long term/current block), or a line of the actual luck compared with the expected instead of all those dots.

A line of actual luck won't tell you anything unless you can compare it to something - for example a confidence interval of likely "luck" values. For the dots, if they look widely distributed and not bunched up the top or the bottom, then that's normal "luck".

The only accurate way to measure "luck" over a period of time to to work out the negative binomial CDF for the combined shares submitted for the combined blocks solved. Using that measure, BitMinter's weekly "luck" over the last months hasn't been outside the expected range.
How about an indicator on the side of the chart that would show the average of the dots? Or an average line?

OTC rating | GPG keyid 1DC91318EE785FDE | Gliph: lightning bicycle tree music | Mycelium, a swift & secure Bitcoin client for Android | LocalBitcoins
organofcorti
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007


Poor impulse control.


View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 05:24:20 AM
 #2819

PPLNS has no vowels in it. That's a flaw from my point of view. Makes it hard to pronounce. It's a flaw all reward methods (apart from PoT) seem to have, CPPSRB being the worst offender.

Oh, now I see why the proportional method still has some support.

Ah, I forgot about prop. And of course there's prop score, too. Why do you think people mine at Slush's pool? They can pronounce the reward method.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
follow @oocBlog for new post notifications
matt4054
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1876
Merit: 1025


cryptoscaper.com


View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 03:32:34 PM
 #2820

Could anyone with more PPLNS experience than me tell us about how unlucky the pool has been over the last few days? Is this usual variance or not, and should we expect the "actual" rewards graph line to cross the "expected" line anytime soon?

I know about the theory behind PPLNS and why it should compensate naturally over time, I'm just trying to match theory and practice here Wink

Thanks for your feedback.

Cryptoscaper · Live cryptocurrency market data
Pages: « 1 ... 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 [141] 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 ... 371 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!