Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

Bter paid the hacker 200 btc and the hacker kept 8 million which means he now has a stake in hoping the price of Nxt rises.

and this is a good thing how?  negotiating and rewarding a thief?  who still now holds 8M NXT and is now a sanctioned stakeholder who can now manipulate forged blocks for his own advancement within the system?

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[_mr_e]

Bter paid the hacker 200 btc and the hacker kept 8 million which means he now has a stake in hoping the price of Nxt rises.

and this is a good thing how?  negotiating and rewarding a thief?  who still now holds 8M NXT and is now a sanctioned stakeholder who can now manipulate forged blocks for his own advancement within the system?

It honestly just seems like you are picking at every little negative you can find and completely ignoring any of the benefits... No matter what the solution was you would have had a problem with it. I really thought you were more open minded then this. 8 million nxt won't even get a forger very far. Just like with bitcoin he has to play by the rules or fork himself away from the main chain.

and yes, this is a much better situation then him owning 50 million. I don't give a shit how much bter is out of pocket or that they "rewarded" the hacker, it was their fault and they have managed to fix it make the nxt system better off. Respect to them for that, it couldn't have been done any better.

[cypherdoc]

Bter paid the hacker 200 btc and the hacker kept 8 million which means he now has a stake in hoping the price of Nxt rises.

and this is a good thing how?  negotiating and rewarding a thief?  who still now holds 8M NXT and is now a sanctioned stakeholder who can now manipulate forged blocks for his own advancement within the system?

It honestly just seems like you are picking at every little negative you can find and completely ignoring any of the benefits... I really thought you were more open minded then this. 8 million nxt won't even get a forger very far. Just like with bitcoin he has to play by the rules or fork himself away from the main chain.

nitpicking?  really?  5% of the entire NXT issuance just got stolen from the hot wallet of the main exchange.  he just got paid off $100000 to return the NXT coins to bailout the customers.  who will learn anything from this except the thief who now understands that criminality pays.  and yes, it is a problem that he still holds 8M in a POS system that rewards stakeholders by depending on them to forge blocks.  read the paper on POS that was presented here yesterday.

[cypherdoc]

Eric King interviews Andrew Huszar responsible for QE1.  always good to hear that you're not imagining things:

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2014/8/3_Andrew_Huszar.html

[_mr_e]

Bter paid the hacker 200 btc and the hacker kept 8 million which means he now has a stake in hoping the price of Nxt rises.

and this is a good thing how?  negotiating and rewarding a thief?  who still now holds 8M NXT and is now a sanctioned stakeholder who can now manipulate forged blocks for his own advancement within the system?

It honestly just seems like you are picking at every little negative you can find and completely ignoring any of the benefits... I really thought you were more open minded then this. 8 million nxt won't even get a forger very far. Just like with bitcoin he has to play by the rules or fork himself away from the main chain.

nitpicking?  really?  5% of the entire NXT issuance just got stolen from the hot wallet of the main exchange.  he just got paid off $100000 to return the NXT coins to bailout the customers.  who will learn anything from this except the thief who now understands that criminality pays.  and yes, it is a problem that he still holds 8M in a POS system that rewards stakeholders by depending on them to forge blocks.  read the paper on POS that was presented here yesterday.

That article only applies to the original proof of stake concept, as used in peercoin. It does not apply to nxt or even bitshares as they uses a far more evolved form of PoS.

[_mr_e]

You might be interested to read the discussion Vitalik came over and had with the nxt developers where he comes to the conclusion that nxt does things much better then it looks on the surface

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bounty-for-successful-nothing-at-stake-attack/msg60114/#msg60114

To quote vbuterin

"So basically you use transactions-as-proof-of-stake. That sounds reasonable; it's as good as I can think of at this point, although it has the moderately-serious-but-not-fatal flaws that I described in my On Stake article. I eagerly await a full whitepaper description and open source code of your complete protocol so both myself and more formal academics can properly whack at the specifics."



Also Nxt cannot be forked back more then 720 blocks so that alone would thwart the attack mentioned in your paper. Not to mention the economic clustering feature and transparent forging that's in development...

Just like with bitcoin, I'd thought you be more aware that systems evolve. Just looking at their surface and taking them at face value is incredibly short sighted.

[cypherdoc]

You might be interested to read the discussion Vitalik came over and had with the nxt developers where he comes to the conclusion that nxt does things much better then it looks on the surface

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bounty-for-successful-nothing-at-stake-attack/msg60114/#msg60114

To quote vbuterin

"So basically you use transactions-as-proof-of-stake. That sounds reasonable; it's as good as I can think of at this point, although it has the moderately-serious-but-not-fatal flaws that I described in my On Stake article. I eagerly await a full whitepaper description and open source code of your complete protocol so both myself and more formal academics can properly whack at the specifics."



Also Nxt cannot be forked back more then 720 blocks so that alone would thwart the attack mentioned in your paper. Not to mention the economic clustering feature and transparent forging that's in development...

Just like with bitcoin, I'd thought you be more aware that systems evolve. Just looking at their surface and taking them at face value is incredibly short sighted.

like i've said before, Vitalik's understanding of "fairness" doesn't impress me.  so how does he apply his view of the world into Ethereum and now NXT?  probably the same way.

you talk like NXT is a guaranteed success and everyone who disagrees with you is shortsighted.  you may be right; but again you may be wrong.

[notme]

The only difference between PoW and PoS is that with PoW you have to commit to a chain to apply your efforts.  With PoS, there is no cost to agree with multiple forks at once, hedging your bets.  This is the missing resource tether that lets it float free.  Stakeholders could keep forging the popular fork, while they maintain and gain support for a side fork with negligible additional cost.  It may have a use, but as a sound money it doesn't seem as solid as PoW.

[_mr_e]

You might be interested to read the discussion Vitalik came over and had with the nxt developers where he comes to the conclusion that nxt does things much better then it looks on the surface

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bounty-for-successful-nothing-at-stake-attack/msg60114/#msg60114

To quote vbuterin

"So basically you use transactions-as-proof-of-stake. That sounds reasonable; it's as good as I can think of at this point, although it has the moderately-serious-but-not-fatal flaws that I described in my On Stake article. I eagerly await a full whitepaper description and open source code of your complete protocol so both myself and more formal academics can properly whack at the specifics."



Also Nxt cannot be forked back more then 720 blocks so that alone would thwart the attack mentioned in your paper. Not to mention the economic clustering feature and transparent forging that's in development...

Just like with bitcoin, I'd thought you be more aware that systems evolve. Just looking at their surface and taking them at face value is incredibly short sighted.

like i've said before, Vitalik's understanding of "fairness" doesn't impress me.  so how does he apply his view of the world into Ethereum and now NXT?  probably the same way.

you talk like NXT is a guaranteed success and everyone who disagrees with you is shortsighted.  you may be right; but again you may be wrong.

For sure, I could be wrong, but you seem to talk like Nxt is completely doomed from the start and has no features that people may find useful or push crypto forward. Majority of my money is still in bitcoin. But ignoring the advantages of these system IS short sighted... if not Nxt then something else! I for one will continue to hedge my bets and keep looking for the most awesome technology I can find.

[justusranvier]

But ignoring the advantages of these system IS short sighted... if not Nxt then something else! I for one will continue to hedge my bets and keep looking for the most awesome technology I can find.

Investing in their appcoin is short sighted.

Where they make genuine improvements, copy those improvements and add them to Bitcoin.

Win-win for everybody, except the people who invest in the appcoins.

[dompsairs]

I sold some of my old gold bracelets while im hodling BtC even after the low price.  

[_mr_e]

But ignoring the advantages of these system IS short sighted... if not Nxt then something else! I for one will continue to hedge my bets and keep looking for the most awesome technology I can find.

Investing in their appcoin is short sighted.

Where they make genuine improvements, copy those improvements and add them to Bitcoin.

Win-win for everybody, except the people who invest in the appcoins.

You've clearly missed the point. Bitcoin was not designed to be an extensible platform, it was designed to be a currency. The two can help each other.

[justusranvier]

You've clearly missed the point. Bitcoin was not designed to be an extensible platform, it was designed to be a currency. The two can help each other.

You're also missing the point. Incorporating new features into the Bitcoin ecosystem does not require changes to the Bitcoin protocol.

Anything NXT can do, Open-Transactions can do using Bitcoin (or any other curency) as its basis, without requiring any kind of special token.

We know they are the project that is actually trying to solve real problems instead of P&D their appcoin, because they don't have an appcoin.

Also the fact that so many people flock to the appcoin P&D platforms instead of OT shows how much they are interested in solving real problem.

[cypherdoc]

if alts were not in fact a distraction and were not contributing to a zero sum game, then all cryptocurrencies should be falling in lock step.

the fact that alts are falling disproportionately more indicates to me, at least, that alts are in fact a distraction and subtracting from Bitcoin in a zero sum game and are in the process of being flushed.

[_mr_e]

You've clearly missed the point. Bitcoin was not designed to be an extensible platform, it was designed to be a currency. The two can help each other.

You're also missing the point. Incorporating new features into the Bitcoin ecosystem does not require changes to the Bitcoin protocol.

Anything NXT can do, Open-Transactions can do using Bitcoin (or any other curency) as its basis, without requiring any kind of special token.

We know they are the project that is actually trying to solve real problems instead of P&D their appcoin, because they don't have an appcoin.

Also the fact that so many people flock to the appcoin P&D platforms instead of OT shows how much they are interested in solving real problem.

I've been waiting for and was very excited for Open Transaction too... But where the hell is it? It's been years.

[jmw74]

I've been waiting for and was very excited for Open Transaction too... But where the hell is it? It's been years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJKWDC4q5rA

[cypherdoc]

do students like being entrapped as debt slaves?

[justusranvier]

do students like being entrapped as debt slaves?

Student loans are the escape route that looks like a trap.

I'm in the middle of a blog post describing exactly how enterprising young people with access to them can use them in that exact manner.

[cypherdoc]

do students like being entrapped as debt slaves?

Student loans are the escape route that looks like a trap.

I'm in the middle of a blog post describing exactly how enterprising young people with access to them can use them in that exact manner.

must involve some sort of default.

[justusranvier]

must involve some sort of default.

The great trap of humanity is to accept that the ruled should obey completely opposite standards compared to the rulers. It is the source of all evil and most suffering in the world, and it's everywhere.

If unlimited borrowing with no thought of repayment followed by strategic default is acceptable behaviour for governments, and multinational corporations, and central banks, then it's acceptable behaviour for individuals too.

If any of these agencies or their cronies want to contest the ethical nature of such a course, they can lead by example or GTFO.