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Going to bed...4.00 am.
Hope u guys can see through the whole GW smokescreen on the issue and see the possibilities of the carbon-offset idea.
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That went well.....not!  I'm now going to re-post the carbon-offset proposal with all of the GW-related material censored, which was only about 10% of my original post. I think you should scratch your carbon offsets in favor of something less controversial. A proposal for subsidies to provide free abortions to the less fortunate? It will probably be less divisive.  Imagine the marketing opportunity if we had abortion clinics that accepted Nxt as payment.  That sounds like a laugh, but no. Heres an idea....someone else come up with a marketing project that can have as much of an impact in terms of free publicity (if handled right) as mine and I'll listen. Might even read it..... |
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But if we can truly say that NXT is cleaner than a Priuses arse, that NXT is being used to do good things like planting trees, making our air cleaner and helping out poor people, then we will have the entire "green" world rushing to our door, waving dollar bills.
How many people bought Priuses last year ?
We need the mainstream and green marketing is a very powerful tool to get to them.
Half people say that we need to bury mentions of GW because it turns people off. The other half want to shout from the rooftops that we are carbon free because it's a marketing gimmick. NXT is already using low power consumption as a selling point, carbon-offset just takes this USP further. We can be greenish without getting into GWEvil Dave you sound like every other do gooder central planner I've had to listen to throughout my life...that if we just give them free money they will remake the world in their image. You also claim a moral superiority because you want to plant trees and make a big show of helping poor people. What moral superiority? Come on, mate. Never made any such claim, won't make any such claim.
It's not a show, clean stoves will help the 2-3 billion poor sods who cook on crap-burning stoves. Costs very little, tooWhat intrinsically makes planting a tree so valuable? If you have to cut down a forest to make room for low-cost housing for the poor, that you purport to care about, then who wins? What's more important? The poor people or the trees? Not cutting down forest for housing, not part of my idea.
On poor people or trees: both could win, btw, some people, mostly women, get to spend several hours a day gathering firewood/dung/whatever to burn. Efficient stoves mean they need less fuel gathering time, for a start. More trees, easier to find fuel.As far as carbon offsets...there's a reason hydroponics shops sell tanks of compressed carbon dioxide...it's because carbon dioxide is plant food. It helps trees grow. Thats why i'm not banging on about CO2 levels, but about the other positive aspects of a good carbon-offset programSuppose we cut carbon emissions, and this lead to lower agricultural outputs and an increase in starvation and famine? How would you feel if poor people starved because of your carbon offsets? We have enough atmospheric CO2, and again, it's not all about the CO2.You are trying to push your muddled, politically correct, views onto Nxt because you see a pile of free money sitting there for the taking. I'm pushing a powerful marketing opportunity. The free money ain't going in my pocket, but if NXT can go mainstream and at least take LiteCoins position, I will make some serious cash.
Keep politics out of Nxt. It will only divide people. Nxt does a far better job than other cryptos and costs less in resources to do it. This is a powerful message. We don't need your carbon dioxide boogie men and the attendant politics to make that point. This is not a political issue.......I think.And yes, I did read your proposal. Aside from you being mealy-mouthed about global warming specifically, you conclude the same thing as all other environmentalist control freaks...that we should feel guilty about using energy and we have to make some sort of amends for the crime of being born human. Guilty, crime....sorry, but u've lost me. Show me a quote. I cant believe that u got all that out of my post. Italics are mine, btw. |
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That went well.....not! I'm now going to re-post the carbon-offset proposal with all of the GW-related material censored, which was only about 10% of my original post. I need to emphasise this: the carbon-offset idea is a marketing tool. NXT is already percieved as green, because of the low power consumption, and if we take that idea and run with it, NXT can be in the wallet of every "green" consumer within a year or two. Think mainstream, think Prius and the whole hybrid market....how many cars? So read it: Here a little light reading for u guys, looks like I finished it at a very appropriate moment:
EvilDaves totally non-evil Carbon-offset program for NXT
Welcome to my proposal for a carbon-offset program to be implemented by the NXT community in order to offset some/all of the environmental costs of the energy used by NXTs network infrastructure. This is a long bit of reading, but it's all important:
The GW problem.
It’s difficult to make a proposal like this without getting into the more controversial aspects of the Global Warming debate, as we have seen before on the BTT forum.
So I am going to ignore the GW debate almost totally, except for these points:
Weather patterns are changing, the world over. Even in my lifetime I’ve seen the weather in northwest Europe change. New weather records are being set every year, extreme weather events seem to be more frequent.
These changes may (or may not) be due to human activity. One undeniable fact is that the amount of CO2 (and other pollutants) present in our atmosphere has been steadily rising since the Industrial Revolution. This is probably not a good thing.
Anyone seen the air quality in Beijing lately ? Or Athens ? Or Indonesia ?
Forests are being destroyed all over the world, and while there are re-forestation projects in place, we are still gradually losing forest cover globally. Forests can be seen as one of the lungs of the planet, pulling in CO2 and other pollutants and locking them up their own biomass, and providing us with lots of lovely oxygen.
I am not going to say that rising CO2 levels are responsible for global warming, you guys can make your own minds up about that.
I am going to say that we need to stop burning so much shit and throwing it into the atmosphere, and we need to maintain forest cover to soak up our CO2/pollutants and provide the oxygen we breathe.
With that in mind:
How does NXT contribute to atmospheric pollution/CO2 levels:
Very simply: the NXT network runs on computers, computers use electricity, electricity is made (mostly) by burning fossil fuels and throwing the resulting emissions into the atmosphere. Depending on where you live, the electricity to power your computer may come from a clean nuclear or hydro-electric plant or, more likely, from an ancient 1950’s coal burning power plant.
One of the many good things about NXT is that it has a much lower power consumption than other crypto-currency networks. There are estimates of NXT vs Bitcoin power use that project that NXT will use 5% of the energy used by Bitcoin, assuming that NXT and BTC are of equal size.
Low energy use is good, but it is also possible to completely eliminate the environmental impact of even those low emissions, by funding carbon-offset projects. This would result in the NXT network, as a whole, contributing no CO2 emissions/atmospheric pollution at all.
Zero emissions will not only be good for the planet, but will also be a very powerful marketing point for NXT and (AFAIK) a unique aspect of NXT that no other crypto can claim.
WTF is a carbon-offset program, EvilDave?
Very simply: NXT burns electricity, releasing a small amount of CO2 and other pollutants into the atmosphere. A carbon-offset program then compensates for those emissions by lowering (or capturing) emissions, for example by planting trees, investing in clean technologies, scrubbing CO2 or various other techniques.
Because the atmosphere can be seen as a single big ball, the carbon-offset techniques can be applied anywhere, not just locally.
So, for example, we could compensate for the US NXT network emissions by planting trees in Cambodia, or Fiji…u get the picture, think global.
The two most interesting carbon-offset programs:
Plant trees. Trees are basically big atmospheric filters, who spend all day pulling in CO2 (and other pollutants), then locking these nasty emissions up in themselves and releasing oxygen for us to breathe. Reforestation projects are a classic carbon-offset project and appear to be quite effective. In any case, more trees can never be a bad thing.
Clean stoves. Much of the developing world (2-3 billion people) still cook using crude, inefficient wood/coal/cow dung/whatever burning stoves. This gives rise to huge emissions and local air pollution which brings health and quality of life issues with it. Recently several groups have begun to develop much cleaner and more efficient cooking stoves, which not only cut emissions and need less fuel, but make a serious improvement in the quality of life for a lot of very poor people. Again, this can’t be a bad thing.
There are quite a few other options, such as investment in wind/solar/nuclear power or cleaner refinements of existing technologies, or even science-fictional projects to scrub CO2 (and methane) out of the atmosphere and bury the liquefied gases.
I vote to ignore all of these and concentrate on the trees and clean stoves.
The advantages of both are very, very clear, and the clean stoves project has the added benefit of making lots of peoples lives better in the very poorest parts of the world.
What will it cost ?
I’ve made a very, very rough estimate of the total energy use by NXTs network infrastructure for a year. Any corrections are welcome, but for now this is good enough:
Assuming a NXT network of 1000 RaspPi (non-solar) and 1000 small VPS:
RaspPi power consumption is 4 Watts (from ebereons numbers) = 35 kiloWatthours/year x1000 = 35,000 kWh per year
VPS consumption is around 10 -25 Watts (Amazon EC2+guess work) = 88 - 220 kWh/year x1000 = 88 - 220,000 kWh per year.
This gives a total for my hypothetical 1000 RP/1000 VPS network of somewhere between 123,000 and 255,000 kWh per year.
Taking these figures and plugging them into various carbon emission calculators gives us total CO2 emissions, which vary between country, of between 88 and 176 tonnes per year (in the US or China) or as low as 20 - 40 tonnes in Switzerland (because of the Swiss use of hydro-power)
I’m going to aim high here and make some more rough estimates:
NXT network of 1000 x RaspPi and 1000 x VPS/home PCs will emit 200 tonnes CO2 per year worldwide, plus other pollutants.
If we choose for the Swiss MyClimate offset program, which varies from 30-90 CHF per tonne, the cost of an offset project to cover 200 tonnes CO2 per year will be somewhere between 6,000 to 18,0000 CHF (Swiss Francs,btw) per year. This will go to Swiss, European and worldwide projects, mostly in reforestation and clean stove technology.
1 BTC is around 780 CHF right now, which makes 1 NXT worth 0.0625 CHF, giving us a cost in NXT from between 96,000 to 288,000 NXT to cover all of NXTs pollution for a year, and allow us to (truthfully) market NXT as a 100% green, zero emissions technology.
Last few points:
Administration/personnel
A carbon-offset program is not very difficult to set up and maintain, one person could probably handle the initial set-up and administration, because we would simply be buying into an off-the-shelf project portfolio. I’ll be happy to volunteer, but I do want 1 or 2 other people to share the responsibility for any NXT accounts. Don’t want me heading to Costa Rica, now, do you?
The future.
Right now forging income is low, but when NXT rises to take over the world, that will change. It makes a lot of sense to pay for an on-going expense like the carbon-offset program out of forging income, rather than just spending NXT capital on it.
I would like to see a fairly large chunk of NXT unclaimed coins set aside in a forging fund, to provide an income stream to finance carbon-offset (and possibly other) projects.
Are there any projections for forging revenue over the next couple of years ?
What is the current forging revenue from 1 megaNXT ?
What's needed:
I would like everyone in the NXT community to give this some thought and criticism. I particularly want someone to provide some better numbers, esp. on the number of computers in the NXT infrastructure now and in the future.
I think that my guessed numbers are good enough to start with, and that I’ve got the cost estimates in the right area. Precise numbers are not so important, the important points are that NXT will be reducing pollution and doing good things, and that we can then market NXT as 100% green and zero-emissions, as well as helping the poorer folks.
So, please allow me:
First: to grab a large chunk of the unclaimed coins, from 100,000 to 300,000 NXT and use them to buy one years worth of carbon-offset.
Second : to put aside another big chunk of NXT (500,000 – 1,000,000) as a forging fund, to provide finance for this and other projects in the future.
That’s it, sorry for all the reading.
And, oh, yeah,, I do want some bounty for this, obviously, I’m very fond of money.
TL:DR version:
Global Warming ignored by EvilDave, me think air pollution bad, too much CO2 probably bad.
Trees good, clean cooking in poor countries good.
NXT run on computers, computer burn electricity, electricity making dirty.
Compensate dirty electricity, plant nice clean trees, make clean cookers.
Give EvilDave much money, he make happen.
Make big pile money work forging, make more money for future. Buy beer.
Heres a quick test question: which country will I (hypothetically) run off to with the carbon-offset fund? |
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Evildave's idea is genious marketing.
If it is, I'd say let's go for it. But put GW away. Because lots of people hate hearing about it. Thx, buybitcoinscanada  +1 dzarmush I really tried very hard to avoid GW in the proposal, and we should avoid it in the marketing of NXT as well. But if we can truly say that NXT is cleaner than a Priuses arse, that NXT is being used to do good things like planting trees, making our air cleaner and helping out poor people, then we will have the entire "green" world rushing to our door, waving dollar bills. How many people bought Priuses last year ? We need the mainstream and green marketing is a very powerful tool to get to them. |
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FFS, Guys !!
This might not be the last time I have to say this, but read the proposal before you start waffling on about Global bloody Warming.
The carbon-offset concept is about a whole load of good things:
reforestation, clean stoves, air pollution and a whole load of marketing brownie points.
NXT is already being seen as "green" because of it's low energy consumption, a carbon-offset project will take this to the next level, do some good in the world (forests, happy poor people) and make NXT cleaner than a Prius.
This is not my pet project*, I just think that it could bring NXT a lot of good publicity, and a unique position in the crypto market.
Look at the amount of hassle Bitcoin is getting right now over it's power consumption.
Again, read all of my proposal, then shoot it down point by point if u can.
BTW: fuck politricks.
*(My pet project would have a lot more Japanese schoolgirls in it...and maybe a 3.5l Mazda diesel)
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I'm going to NYC but I live here so I don't need any money for that. I would like some consideration for my proposal here: https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,3441.msg32673.html#msg32673tl:dr Info cards with a redeemable code for a private faucet that securely gives a NEW user 10,20 etc NXT Cards to be handed out at events, with budget for SHIPPING cards to other events, globally. things like these will be paid from the conf fund: 5,000 post cards, Color front, BW back 4”x6” $200 NXT 2000 Label printer and 5,000 thermal labels, ~ $300 N 3000 Rollout wave 2 Shipping Budget (250 cards per event, $10 each) N 2000 -- + often something special, like Raspberri Pi + Booth table Stickers ? People fooking love stickers, really. Small ones, big ones,bumper stickers.....they are a brilliant promo tool. |
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Be careful, or we'll meet u at the train station/airport with a lovely Dutch bicycle for ya.....
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Its *NOT* the GW debate...read the post, carefully avoided Global Warming completely.
Pollution yes, GW, no, so lets not start in on it.
Right. If one time gw is confirmed and accepted by 95% of people we'll play this card. For now it's 50/50. I can't let this go: http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus97% consensus that climate change is man made. It's 97% of a small group. I mean 95% of all people in the world. For now gw theme makes half people angree. We don't want to make them angree, right? It would be our weak spot to be associated with such thing. @dzarmush.....really don't want to get into the GW debate, but my carbon offset idea is *not*, repeat *not* purely about GW. With a good carbon-offset project we can cut all forms of air pollution, help some poor people and get good publicity for NXT. We are already using the low energy consumption of NXT as a marketing point, my idea is just an extension of that. Do not underestimate the power of doing good things (and getting free publicity for them!) Read my post, come back to me on all of my ideas, please. |
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Block check:
56739 2584657662098653454 3.2.2014 01:07:45
12 392 + 12 1'536 B
2 12495649816131127365 290 %
?
I've got: 56739 2584657662098653454 maandag 3 februari 2014 1:07:45
12 392 + 12 1'536 B
2 12495649816131127365 290 %
Looks good.... |
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Don't start on GW or we will just get completely de-railed
Pollution, air quality, forests, oxygen, poor people and marketing. Thats what I want to concentrate on....
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Its *NOT* the GW debate...read the post, carefully avoided Global Warming completely.
Pollution yes, GW, no, so lets not start in on it.
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@Damelon; want a monolith for the conference?
Who DOESN'T want his own pet monolith? Feck..... Had fun reading my little proposal? |
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Reposted from the main BTT thread, if anyone missed it  EvilDaves totally non-evil Carbon-offset program for NXTWelcome to my proposal for a carbon-offset program to be implemented by the NXT community in order to offset some/all of the environmental costs of the energy used by NXTs network infrastructure. This is a long bit of reading, but it's all important: The GW problem.It’s difficult to make a proposal like this without getting into the more controversial aspects of the Global Warming debate, as we have seen before on the BTT forum. So I am going to ignore the GW debate almost totally, except for these points: Weather patterns are changing, the world over. Even in my lifetime I’ve seen the weather in northwest Europe change. New weather records are being set every year, extreme weather events seem to be more frequent. These changes may (or may not) be due to human activity. One undeniable fact is that the amount of CO2 (and other pollutants) present in our atmosphere has been steadily rising since the Industrial Revolution. This is probably not a good thing. Anyone seen the air quality in Beijing lately ? Or Athens ? Or Indonesia ? Forests are being destroyed all over the world, and while there are re-forestation projects in place, we are still gradually losing forest cover globally. Forests can be seen as one of the lungs of the planet, pulling in CO 2 and other pollutants and locking them up their own biomass, and providing us with lots of lovely oxygen. I am not going to say that rising CO 2 levels are responsible for global warming, you guys can make your own minds up about that. I am going to say that we need to stop burning so much shit and throwing it into the atmosphere, and we need to maintain forest cover to soak up our CO 2/pollutants and provide the oxygen we breathe. With that in mind: How does NXT contribute to atmospheric pollution/CO2 levels:Very simply: the NXT network runs on computers, computers use electricity, electricity is made (mostly) by burning fossil fuels and throwing the resulting emissions into the atmosphere. Depending on where you live, the electricity to power your computer may come from a clean nuclear or hydro-electric plant or, more likely, from an ancient 1950’s coal burning power plant. One of the many good things about NXT is that it has a much lower power consumption than other crypto-currency networks. There are estimates of NXT vs Bitcoin power use that project that NXT will use 5% of the energy used by Bitcoin, assuming that NXT and BTC are of equal size. Low energy use is good, but it is also possible to completely eliminate the environmental impact of even those low emissions, by funding carbon-offset projects. This would result in the NXT network, as a whole, contributing no CO 2 emissions/atmospheric pollution at all. Zero emissions will not only be good for the planet, but will also be a very powerful marketing point for NXT and (AFAIK) a unique aspect of NXT that no other crypto can claim. WTF is a carbon-offset program, EvilDave?Very simply: NXT burns electricity, releasing a small amount of CO 2 and other pollutants into the atmosphere. A carbon-offset program then compensates for those emissions by lowering (or capturing) emissions, for example by planting trees, investing in clean technologies, scrubbing CO 2 or various other techniques. Because the atmosphere can be seen as a single big ball, the carbon-offset techniques can be applied anywhere, not just locally. So, for example, we could compensate for the US NXT network emissions by planting trees in Cambodia, or Fiji…u get the picture, think global. The two most interesting carbon-offset programs:Plant trees. Trees are basically big atmospheric filters, who spend all day pulling in CO2 (and other pollutants), then locking these nasty emissions up in themselves and releasing oxygen for us to breathe. Reforestation projects are a classic carbon-offset project and appear to be quite effective. In any case, more trees can never be a bad thing. Clean stoves. Much of the developing world (2-3 billion people) still cook using crude, inefficient wood/coal/cow dung/whatever burning stoves. This gives rise to huge emissions and local air pollution which brings health and quality of life issues with it. Recently several groups have begun to develop much cleaner and more efficient cooking stoves, which not only cut emissions and need less fuel, but make a serious improvement in the quality of life for a lot of very poor people. Again, this can’t be a bad thing. There are quite a few other options, such as investment in wind/solar/nuclear power or cleaner refinements of existing technologies, or even science-fictional projects to scrub CO 2 (and methane) out of the atmosphere and bury the liquefied gases. I vote to ignore all of these and concentrate on the trees and clean stoves. The advantages of both are very, very clear, and the clean stoves project has the added benefit of making lots of peoples lives better in the very poorest parts of the world. What will it cost ?I’ve made a very, very rough estimate of the total energy use by NXTs network infrastructure for a year. Any corrections are welcome, but for now this is good enough: Assuming a NXT network of 1000 RaspPi (non-solar) and 1000 small VPS: RaspPi power consumption is 4 Watts (from ebereons numbers) = 35 kiloWatthours/year x1000 = 35,000 kWh per year VPS consumption is around 10 -25 Watts (Amazon EC2+guess work) = 88 - 220 kWh/year x1000 = 88 - 220,000 kWh per year. This gives a total for my hypothetical 1000 RP/1000 VPS network of somewhere between 123,000 and 255,000 kWh per year. Taking these figures and plugging them into various carbon emission calculators gives us total CO 2 emissions, which vary between country, of between 88 and 176 tonnes per year (in the US or China) or as low as 20 - 40 tonnes in Switzerland (because of the Swiss use of hydro-power)
I’m going to aim high here and make some more rough estimates:NXT network of 1000 x RaspPi and 1000 x VPS/home PCs will emit 200 tonnes CO2 per year worldwide, plus other pollutants. If we choose for the Swiss MyClimate offset program, which varies from 30-90 CHF per tonne, the cost of an offset project to cover 200 tonnes CO 2 per year will be somewhere between 6,000 to 18,0000 CHF (Swiss Francs,btw) per year. This will go to Swiss, European and worldwide projects, mostly in reforestation and clean stove technology. 1 BTC is around 780 CHF right now, which makes 1 NXT worth 0.0625 CHF, giving us a cost in NXT from between 96,000 to 288,000 NXT to cover all of NXTs pollution for a year, and allow us to (truthfully) market NXT as a 100% green, zero emissions technology. Last few points:Administration/personnelA carbon-offset program is not very difficult to set up and maintain, one person could probably handle the initial set-up and administration, because we would simply be buying into an off-the-shelf project portfolio. I’ll be happy to volunteer, but I do want 1 or 2 other people to share the responsibility for any NXT accounts. Don’t want me heading to Costa Rica, now, do you? The future.Right now forging income is low, but when NXT rises to take over the world, that will change. It makes a lot of sense to pay for an on-going expense like the carbon-offset program out of forging income, rather than just spending NXT capital on it. I would like to see a fairly large chunk of NXT unclaimed coins set aside in a forging fund, to provide an income stream to finance carbon-offset (and possibly other) projects. Are there any projections for forging revenue over the next couple of years ? What is the current forging revenue from 1 megaNXT ? What's needed: I would like everyone in the NXT community to give this some thought and criticism. I particularly want someone to provide some better numbers, esp. on the number of computers in the NXT infrastructure now and in the future. I think that my guessed numbers are good enough to start with, and that I’ve got the cost estimates in the right area. Precise numbers are not so important, the important points are that NXT will be reducing pollution and doing good things, and that we can then market NXT as 100% green and zero-emissions, as well as helping the poorer folks. So, please allow me:First: to grab a large chunk of the unclaimed coins, from 100,000 to 300,000 NXT and use them to buy one years worth of carbon-offset. Second : to put aside another big chunk of NXT (500,000 – 1,000,000) as a forging fund, to provide finance for this and other projects in the future. That’s it, sorry for all the reading.And, oh, yeah,, I do want some bounty for this, obviously, I’m very fond of money. TL:DR version: Global Warming ignored by EvilDave, think air pollution bad, too much CO 2 probably bad. Trees good, clean cooking in poor countries good. NXT runs on computers, computers burn electricity, electricity making dirty. Compensate dirty electricity, plant nice clean trees, make clean cookers. Give EvilDave much money, he make happen. Make big pile money work forging, make more money for future. Buy beer. |
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Here a little light reading for u guys, looks like I finished it at a very appropriate moment:
EvilDaves totally non-evil Carbon-offset program for NXT
Welcome to my proposal for a carbon-offset program to be implemented by the NXT community in order to offset some/all of the environmental costs of the energy used by NXTs network infrastructure. This is a long bit of reading, but it's all important:
The GW problem.
It’s difficult to make a proposal like this without getting into the more controversial aspects of the Global Warming debate, as we have seen before on the BTT forum.
So I am going to ignore the GW debate almost totally, except for these points:
Weather patterns are changing, the world over. Even in my lifetime I’ve seen the weather in northwest Europe change. New weather records are being set every year, extreme weather events seem to be more frequent.
These changes may (or may not) be due to human activity. One undeniable fact is that the amount of CO2 (and other pollutants) present in our atmosphere has been steadily rising since the Industrial Revolution. This is probably not a good thing.
Anyone seen the air quality in Beijing lately ? Or Athens ? Or Indonesia ?
Forests are being destroyed all over the world, and while there are re-forestation projects in place, we are still gradually losing forest cover globally. Forests can be seen as one of the lungs of the planet, pulling in CO2 and other pollutants and locking them up their own biomass, and providing us with lots of lovely oxygen.
I am not going to say that rising CO2 levels are responsible for global warming, you guys can make your own minds up about that.
I am going to say that we need to stop burning so much shit and throwing it into the atmosphere, and we need to maintain forest cover to soak up our CO2/pollutants and provide the oxygen we breathe.
With that in mind:
How does NXT contribute to atmospheric pollution/CO2 levels:
Very simply: the NXT network runs on computers, computers use electricity, electricity is made (mostly) by burning fossil fuels and throwing the resulting emissions into the atmosphere. Depending on where you live, the electricity to power your computer may come from a clean nuclear or hydro-electric plant or, more likely, from an ancient 1950’s coal burning power plant.
One of the many good things about NXT is that it has a much lower power consumption than other crypto-currency networks. There are estimates of NXT vs Bitcoin power use that project that NXT will use 5% of the energy used by Bitcoin, assuming that NXT and BTC are of equal size.
Low energy use is good, but it is also possible to completely eliminate the environmental impact of even those low emissions, by funding carbon-offset projects. This would result in the NXT network, as a whole, contributing no CO2 emissions/atmospheric pollution at all.
Zero emissions will not only be good for the planet, but will also be a very powerful marketing point for NXT and (AFAIK) a unique aspect of NXT that no other crypto can claim.
WTF is a carbon-offset program, EvilDave?
Very simply: NXT burns electricity, releasing a small amount of CO2 and other pollutants into the atmosphere. A carbon-offset program then compensates for those emissions by lowering (or capturing) emissions, for example by planting trees, investing in clean technologies, scrubbing CO2 or various other techniques.
Because the atmosphere can be seen as a single big ball, the carbon-offset techniques can be applied anywhere, not just locally.
So, for example, we could compensate for the US NXT network emissions by planting trees in Cambodia, or Fiji…u get the picture, think global.
The two most interesting carbon-offset programs:
Plant trees. Trees are basically big atmospheric filters, who spend all day pulling in CO2 (and other pollutants), then locking these nasty emissions up in themselves and releasing oxygen for us to breathe. Reforestation projects are a classic carbon-offset project and appear to be quite effective. In any case, more trees can never be a bad thing.
Clean stoves. Much of the developing world (2-3 billion people) still cook using crude, inefficient wood/coal/cow dung/whatever burning stoves. This gives rise to huge emissions and local air pollution which brings health and quality of life issues with it. Recently several groups have begun to develop much cleaner and more efficient cooking stoves, which not only cut emissions and need less fuel, but make a serious improvement in the quality of life for a lot of very poor people. Again, this can’t be a bad thing.
There are quite a few other options, such as investment in wind/solar/nuclear power or cleaner refinements of existing technologies, or even science-fictional projects to scrub CO2 (and methane) out of the atmosphere and bury the liquefied gases.
I vote to ignore all of these and concentrate on the trees and clean stoves.
The advantages of both are very, very clear, and the clean stoves project has the added benefit of making lots of peoples lives better in the very poorest parts of the world.
What will it cost ?
I’ve made a very, very rough estimate of the total energy use by NXTs network infrastructure for a year. Any corrections are welcome, but for now this is good enough:
Assuming a NXT network of 1000 RaspPi (non-solar) and 1000 small VPS:
RaspPi power consumption is 4 Watts (from ebereons numbers) = 35 kiloWatthours/year x1000 = 35,000 kWh per year
VPS consumption is around 10 -25 Watts (Amazon EC2+guess work) = 88 - 220 kWh/year x1000 = 88 - 220,000 kWh per year.
This gives a total for my hypothetical 1000 RP/1000 VPS network of somewhere between 123,000 and 255,000 kWh per year.
Taking these figures and plugging them into various carbon emission calculators gives us total CO2 emissions, which vary between country, of between 88 and 176 tonnes per year (in the US or China) or as low as 20 - 40 tonnes in Switzerland (because of the Swiss use of hydro-power)
I’m going to aim high here and make some more rough estimates:
NXT network of 1000 x RaspPi and 1000 x VPS/home PCs will emit 200 tonnes CO2 per year worldwide, plus other pollutants.
If we choose for the Swiss MyClimate offset program, which varies from 30-90 CHF per tonne, the cost of an offset project to cover 200 tonnes CO2 per year will be somewhere between 6,000 to 18,0000 CHF (Swiss Francs,btw) per year. This will go to Swiss, European and worldwide projects, mostly in reforestation and clean stove technology.
1 BTC is around 780 CHF right now, which makes 1 NXT worth 0.0625 CHF, giving us a cost in NXT from between 96,000 to 288,000 NXT to cover all of NXTs pollution for a year, and allow us to (truthfully) market NXT as a 100% green, zero emissions technology.
Last few points:
Administration/personnel
A carbon-offset program is not very difficult to set up and maintain, one person could probably handle the initial set-up and administration, because we would simply be buying into an off-the-shelf project portfolio. I’ll be happy to volunteer, but I do want 1 or 2 other people to share the responsibility for any NXT accounts. Don’t want me heading to Costa Rica, now, do you?
The future.
Right now forging income is low, but when NXT rises to take over the world, that will change. It makes a lot of sense to pay for an on-going expense like the carbon-offset program out of forging income, rather than just spending NXT capital on it.
I would like to see a fairly large chunk of NXT unclaimed coins set aside in a forging fund, to provide an income stream to finance carbon-offset (and possibly other) projects.
Are there any projections for forging revenue over the next couple of years ?
What is the current forging revenue from 1 megaNXT ?
What's needed:
I would like everyone in the NXT community to give this some thought and criticism. I particularly want someone to provide some better numbers, esp. on the number of computers in the NXT infrastructure now and in the future.
I think that my guessed numbers are good enough to start with, and that I’ve got the cost estimates in the right area. Precise numbers are not so important, the important points are that NXT will be reducing pollution and doing good things, and that we can then market NXT as 100% green and zero-emissions, as well as helping the poorer folks.
So, please allow me:
First: to grab a large chunk of the unclaimed coins, from 100,000 to 300,000 NXT and use them to buy one years worth of carbon-offset.
Second : to put aside another big chunk of NXT (500,000 – 1,000,000) as a forging fund, to provide finance for this and other projects in the future.
That’s it, sorry for all the reading.
And, oh, yeah,, I do want some bounty for this, obviously, I’m very fond of money.
TL:DR version:
Global Warming ignored by EvilDave, me think air pollution bad, too much CO2 probably bad.
Trees good, clean cooking in poor countries good.
NXT run on computers, computer burn electricity, electricity making dirty.
Compensate dirty electricity, plant nice clean trees, make clean cookers.
Give EvilDave much money, he make happen.
Make big pile money work forging, make more money for future. Buy beer.
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@Damelon: Nice one, their work looks good, very clean.
@gvans: do like the monolith. I know some laser-cutting dudes who might be able to do me one. I'll grab your files and make some calls in the AM.
@Damelon; want a monolith for the conference?
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Same here, I just need my bicycle....having said that:
@Damelon: thinking about hiring a biggish auto/bus for conference transport (5-9 seats), should cost around €50-75 per day....
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Hi everyone, I see you are researching what to do with funds allowed to NXT developpement .
And this is an ecological way where we need some help,
Do you think its interesting ?
Creation of a Network of farm decentralized in permaculture with cheap ecological habitation, autarkic alimentation and energy, spinning off into subsidiaries every half year to grow into community connected by NXT, that could be the central tool of a new society.
To enter NXT into solid existance.
Pay your vegetables, your honey, your fruits, with your NXT.
Live on fertile land and common, in your individual cheap eco-home,
Participate with the creation of a common house, general technological quarters of your eco-foundation.
Form new groups following the same idea of decentralized system, who want to live in their optimate autarcy, always connected to NXT;
And allow them access to land, to the financing of their ecological agricultural project.
We are at the beginning of the creation of decentralized farming :
• the economical gestion of a common wallet filled by the artisan and farmer members, and exterior part-takers;
• Decisions are taken in a democratic way : for exemple : draw out treasurers and leader of groups, or : the coolest project is accepted by members.
• The food and energy is re-distributed
NXT is achieved to permet all of that.
We will sell products with NXT, services, allowing advantages never seen before for all community NXT.
Participate the most solidary and exciting experience.
Build with us decentralized farm network, that belong to you.
Free to come to the place following availability, free to participate with breaking up into subsidiaries of our civilisation that go to the earth, and that breaks intermediarie, that parasiting the development of the common good.
Discution and vote, purpose to NXT will be major tools.
We need:
Some financement, between 75k NXT and 500k NXT for land (we’ve already got some lands), and for 50 persons in a first time.
We offer:
The possibility for all members of the greatest decentralized community to take part of the society decentralized and the most advance marketing : proof by exemple that a network of autarkic decentralized community by the draw democratie, or the vote of the majority of the popular idea and not political grups. NXT is the central pillar of this transition, that permit the transparance of groups economie, and allow to put togeterh money, that helps to go back to eco-site by vote of member.
I'm going to piss on your parade here....why does an anarchist/permaculture commune specifically need money from NXT ? U want land, take land, defend it and build on it. U don't need money, u can build a better community without it. My advice to to you is, u already have land, so build something and then show it to us in some real way, and don't forget to try asking in other places, NEM looks like a good fit for u: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.0;topicseenU can get stakes for your whole community, if u like. |
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Funny nowhere on the site I saw you mentioned Nxt whose source code you will use to launch your version. Thar says a lot about your credibility. Dude, FC is so yesterday, lets get some work done, maybe we can bait him a bit later.... |
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Speaking of upcoming conference in Austin, since I live here I can order t-shirts for attendants and meet them before the conference. Do we have a list of people who are going to Austin so I can contact them to have their sizes? I can also print other stuff like business cards, flyers etc.
I want to get both business cards and flyers printed for Austin but I wanted to see what got made for Berlin first. I am really interested in a black NXT T shirt but if I'm speaking I may wear something a little more formal. I have posted my hotel and flight info in previous posts and would love to have a meet up with you and anybody else that comes on Tues night before the conference. I believe that admiral.fu was sorting out the t-shirts for Berlin. |
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