Why do Atheists Hate Religion?

[mOgliE]

Many of the points at the site you linked are simply statements. Some of them have been refuted far more strongly at "44 Reasons" than they have been stated at "Evolution 101." It would be interesting to do a comparison.

I wonder how much the scientists involved see things the way they want rather than what is logically there.

Do you also believe the banana is proof of God?
Behold the Atheist's Nightmare

If so, how do you explain the coconut, or the pineapple?

Science has a different expectation when it comes to words like "proof" and "evidence" than religion...

All by itself, the banana may not be proof of God. But, it is way more proof of God than it is proof of evolution.

Why do you ask me to explain coconuts and pineapples? You can find all kinds of information about them if you do an Internet search. Of course, if you don't know this by now, it probably doesn't do any good to tell you.

Yes. The science religion has different ... than other religions.

You might understand the joke if you would click the link and watch the 1 minute video made by Christians (spoiler: one of them is Kirk Cameron)

"If you study a well-made banana..."

"God has placed a tab at the top like a soda can"

"The wrapper is bio-degradable" (no shit.. its a banana!)

Pure comedy... hence the question about the pineapple... not so human-friendly as a banana

Ahah, seems I missed some good things last night xD

Well it reminds me of all the videos "proving the existence of god" where their only argument is that the golden ratio is everywhere. So for them it's a proof that god is at the base of everything. Nothing to do with the fact that gravity makes everything round and that everything round has the golden ratio somewhere 

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[organofcorti]

More proof against evolution from http://thetruthwins.com/archives/44-reasons-why-evolution-is-just-a-fairy-tale-for-adults:

#35 DNA is so incredibly complex that it is absolutely absurd to suggest that such a language system could have “evolved” all by itself by accident…

    "When it comes to storing massive amounts of information, nothing comes close to the efficiency of DNA. A single strand of DNA is thousands of times thinner than a strand of human hair. One pinhead of DNA could hold enough information to fill a stack of books stretching from the earth to the moon 500 times.

    "Although DNA is wound into tight coils, your cells can quickly access, copy, and translate the information stored in DNA. DNA even has a built-in proofreader and spell-checker that ensure precise copying. Only about one mistake slips through for every 10 billion nucleotides that are copied."

Why is it "absolutely absurd to suggest that such a language system could have “evolved” all by itself"? You haven't provided any proof that this is not possible, just opinion.

The odds, man. The odds.

What odds? You provide no odds that this couldn't happen naturally. And why odds - why not a likelihood or different probability measure? You just think it's unlikely, but it's not a provable assertion. You're probably making assumptions based on intuition, but this means you're just expressing an opinion, not any provable assertion.

Okay. You got me. I certainly can't make you look at the Bitcoitalk post that has the odds. All I can do is point it out to you, like I did.  

Sure, I looked at the post, but it's just you quoting someone else. I wanted you to explain how this person derived those odds, because the explanation given in the post is incomplete. Obviously I can't discuss this with the author, but since you're certain this is correct you must understand it, so I'm discussing it with you.

Why do you attempt to express your ignorance all the time? Actually, I don't really care. But you are getting really good at it.

Well quelle surprise -- I ask for proof of an strongly stated assertion and you once again respond with an ad-hominem attack in order to avoid expressing your own ignorance in matters of statistical analysis.

Why have a conversation if you'll only converse with people who already know what you know and have nothing to learn? What would the point be? Shouldn't ignorance of a fact be a teaching opportunity?

I know, I know. It is completely my mistake for assuming that you have the ability to navigate websites, and think.

Of course that is a valid assumption. I have the ability to navigate websites and to think. This of course does nothing to prove any of your points.

Just curious. Do you do your own keyboard work when you post in this forum? The reason I ask is, the keyboard work seems to be a lot better than the thinking that is behind what you say.

Now, don't get me wrong. I am not tearing down your character. I'm simply saying it like it is. Low IQ isn't something that is bad. It is what it is. That's all. You are a wonderful human being, I'm sure, even though you seem to have such an inability to handle navigating this forum... or whatever your problem is.

Another ad-hominem attack. Do you have a wider set of logical fallacies that you prefer, or do you just stick with special pleading and ad-hominem attacks?

Obviously, you are not very interested. If you were, you would go out and do your own investigating.

Then please don't post information you don't understand and for which you cannot provide proof.

The fun and interesting part about this thread is conversation and discussion, but you just want to monolog.

[valta4065]

Call me mad but I believe there is a god around us. I just don't think the evolution is questionable, why can't we have both? Lots of scientists were also very religious people.

Faith and science are not incompatible. 

[organofcorti]

Call me mad but I believe there is a god around us. I just don't think the evolution is questionable, why can't we have both? Lots of scientists were also very religious people.

Faith and science are not incompatible. 

They're different domains. Of course you can have faith and be a scientist, but trying to use one to prove the other is like trying to use maths to prove art -- it completely misses the point.

[valta4065]

Call me mad but I believe there is a god around us. I just don't think the evolution is questionable, why can't we have both? Lots of scientists were also very religious people.

Faith and science are not incompatible. 

They're different domains. Of course you can have faith and be a scientist, but trying to use one to prove the other is like trying to use maths to prove art -- it completely misses the point.

Good analogy. And it's right that religion is a question of faith.
You can't prove the existence of God, if you could then it wouldn't be God.

You can't prove His existence otherwise He couldn't test our faith.

[gregyoung14]

Call me mad but I believe there is a god around us. I just don't think the evolution is questionable, why can't we have both? Lots of scientists were also very religious people.

Faith and science are not incompatible. 

They're different domains. Of course you can have faith and be a scientist, but trying to use one to prove the other is like trying to use maths to prove art -- it completely misses the point.

Very true. Yes, they are related to each other in some ways, but they are two different things. It would be unfair to identify one another by the context of the other.

[elgeo]

Sorry for the long reply but I was away for a few days.
Part 1:

The death on the cross for Jesus was necessary. It shows us how greatly God loves us...

Say what?  Necessary?!?

God made the rules... he didn't have to make it necessary if he didn't want to... why murder your own son?

God could have waved his magic wand and forgiven sin without any need for bloodshed... necessary? ha!



God sacrifices himself, to himself, to serve as a loophole for a rule he created himself... seems legit...

Exactly. It is said that God knew everything from the beginning. Then why does he allow all this pain and suffering in the world? To

prove a point?

You could ask the same question about 'the flood'...

If God knew he was going to kill 99.999% of the population... why create them in the first place?  Why not just start with Noah instead

of Adam?  Why kill 99.999% of the population for being evil?...

God created them, knowing they were going to turn out evil... wtf?  Now he sent 99.999% of the planet to hell for no reason... why

create any soul that is destined to hell?

That sounds mean to me, creating a soul that you plan to torture for eternity... why would a "God" do that?

This is the main problem with religion... none of the events make a bit of sense when you apply critical thinking skills...

I have to completely agree with Moloch: why would God, who has all His attributes to the superlative: amongst them being "all-knowing",

create a world, only to destroy it later because the beings that He created after a time got bad/evil? Isn't He "all-powerful"? So if

He knows everything what happened? Bad coding? System error? He doesn't make mystakes! He's perfect in all ways!
So, as Moloch said: why the flood? Is it sadism?
Also: sending all the bad souls to hell: for ETERNITY! Because they weren't perfect! Because they were created like that: imperfect.
Moloch, and all of us are trying to use pure reason. I say "trying" because us too are not perfect. Why are you against reason? Against

things that make sense?
I don't know about all atheists but if you leave me alone I'll leave you alone - be contempt in your made up world, it's ok. But stop

trying to convince us about God's existence!

Atheists are the reason for some of the most brutal murders around, way more than Christians. Consider Stalin and his 30 to 100 million

(we may never know for sure), Hitler and his 20 million (he wasn't Christian although he went to mass at times), and all the Southeast

Asian atheistic communistic leaders who killed many millions of their own people.

If Bible were law, there would be peace among those who accepted it as law. Take a look. It's right in the Bible.

Anyone who compares the opposition to Hitler, automatically loses any argument they tried to make.

Hitler didn't kill any(?) Jews himself, other Germans did that... and guess what... those Germans were mostly Christian, same as

America!... that means Christians did all that evil murdering... get your facts right...

Religion is the force responsible for the vast majority of wars throughout history.  Christians are solely responsible for what we

commonly refer to as "The Dark Ages"... 300 years of crusades, and inquisition!

Just read the bible... how many nations did the Jews attack?  "The Promised Land", "The land of milk and honey", was such because there

were people living on that land... they were farmers and bee-keepers, which is why they had milk and honey... until the Jews killed

them all and took their milk and honey... that's how religion operates... they kill and take people's stuff... all the while claiming

moral authority directly from God Himself!

Again: if Christians are so good why have so many people died in the name of God? Something's wrong here, I tell you.

The death on the cross for Jesus was necessary. It shows us how greatly God loves us...

Say what?  Necessary?!?

God made the rules... he didn't have to make it necessary if he didn't want to... why murder your own son?

God could have waved his magic wand and forgiven sin without any need for bloodshed... necessary? ha!


God sacrifices himself, to himself, to serve as a loophole for a rule he created himself... seems legit...

Exactly. It is said that God knew everything from the beginning. Then why does he allow all this pain and suffering in the world? To

prove a point?

You could ask the same question about 'the flood'...

If God knew he was going to kill 99.999% of the population... why create them in the first place?  Why not just start with Noah instead

of Adam?  Why kill 99.999% of the population for being evil?...

God created them, knowing they were going to turn out evil... wtf?  Now he sent 99.999% of the planet to hell for no reason... why

create any soul that is destined to hell?

That sounds mean to me, creating a soul that you plan to torture for eternity... why would a "God" do that?

This is the main problem with religion... none of the events make a bit of sense when you apply critical thinking skills...

You forget one thing. God loved us so much, that He did the best for us. What is that best? God is giving us in our selves, Himself. He

is making us like Him. We have the choice to be like Him or not. How do we have that choice? He gave it to us. Either join Him and be

like Him, or do away with ourselves.

What's the question here? I'd slap you ion the face if I was God. And to think He offers you the greatest thing that there is... to be

like Him. And you even suggest turning it down. What an insult. Even you would be insulted if you offered someone a million dollars,

and besides not accepting it, all he did was to call you a piece of shit to your face.

His best? There is no "best" for Him. He's perfect, no? All encompassing.

Also: God is three persons: God is God, Jesus is God, the holy spirit is God. Three persons, one being. Then God killed Himself? Also:

if He killed Himself knowing that He would not really die what does that prove? Who wouldn't die without a problem if he/she would have

the certainty that after three days he/she would be again alive without a scratch?

To You:
"Not to pass your children through the fire to Molech"
- Lev. 18:21


Best regards.

There are certainly better Moloch quotes... Allen Ginsberg did an amazing job:
Howl by Allen Ginsberg : The Poetry Foundation

Moloch! Solitude! Filth! Ugliness! Ashcans and unobtainable dollars! Children screaming under the stairways! Boys sobbing in

armies! Old men weeping in the parks!
Moloch! Moloch! Nightmare of Moloch! Moloch the loveless! Mental Moloch! Moloch the heavy judger of men!
Moloch the incomprehensible prison! Moloch the crossbone soulless jailhouse and Congress of sorrows! Moloch whose buildings are

judgment! Moloch the vast stone of war! Moloch the stunned governments!
Moloch whose mind is pure machinery! Moloch whose blood is running money! Moloch whose fingers are ten armies! Moloch whose breast is a

cannibal dynamo! Moloch whose ear is a smoking tomb!
Moloch whose eyes are a thousand blind windows! Moloch whose skyscrapers stand in the long streets like endless Jehovahs! Moloch whose

factories dream and croak in the fog! Moloch whose smoke-stacks and antennae crown the cities!
Moloch whose love is endless oil and stone! Moloch whose soul is electricity and banks! Moloch whose poverty is the specter of genius!

Moloch whose fate is a cloud of sexless hydrogen! Moloch whose name is the Mind!
...

I believe Allen Ginsberg's Moloch was influenced by the 1927 film,

'Metropolis'

Why are you using this name?


Best regards.

He uses his name because he chose to. Jeez. All the questions.

You forget one thing. God loved us so much, that He did the best for us. What is that best? God is giving us in our selves, Himself. He

is making us like Him. We have the choice to be like Him or not. How do we have that choice? He gave it to us. Either join Him and be

like Him, or do away with ourselves.

What's the question here? I'd slap you ion the face if I was God. And to think He offers you the greatest thing that there is... to be

like Him. And you even suggest turning it down. What an insult. Even you would be insulted if you offered someone a million dollars,

and besides not accepting it, all he did was to call you a piece of shit to your face.

Why am I not surprised that the "Christian" is the one talking about assaulting the non-Christian?  Kinda proving my point about

religion being the aggressor, dontcha think?

Let's say hypothetically, I'm wrong... God exists, he's the Christian God, etc... Would I worship him?  FUCK NO!!!  The God of

the bible is an evil bastard... I've read the bible... I would never love or worship that God even if the entire bible were 100%

true...

For more info, I'll refer you to Stephen Fry, because he does an amazing job explaining this point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-d4otHE-YI

There are so many inconsistencies in the  Bible, so many contradictions. I could name 100 without breaking a sweat! With verses to

prove what I say.

Atheists are the reason for some of the most brutal murders around, way more than Christians. Consider Stalin and his 30 to 100 million

(we may never know for sure), Hitler and his 20 million (he wasn't Christian although he went to mass at times), and all the Southeast

Asian atheistic communistic leaders who killed many millions of their own people.

If Bible were law, there would be peace among those who accepted it as law. Take a look. It's right in the Bible.

Anyone who compares the opposition to Hitler, automatically loses any argument they tried to make.

Hitler didn't kill any(?) Jews himself, other Germans did that... and guess what... those Germans were mostly Christian, same as

America!... that means Christians did all that evil murdering... get your facts right...

Religion is the force responsible for the vast majority of wars throughout history.  Christians are solely responsible for what we

commonly refer to as "The Dark Ages"... 300 years of crusades, and inquisition!

Just read the bible... how many nations did the Jews attack?  "The Promised Land", "The land of milk and honey", was such because there

were people living on that land... they were farmers and bee-keepers, which is why they had milk and honey... until the Jews killed

them all and took their milk and honey... that's how religion operates... they kill and take people's stuff... all the while claiming

moral authority directly from God Himself!

You play with semantic-like ideas.   

In addition, the Jews who attacked and killed people who didn't believe in God, were doing those people a favor. Here's how.

God is just. He will punish wicked people according to the quantity and quality of their wickedness.

Now imagine as an example that you were 20 years old, and had been wicked all your life. By the time you were, say, 50, wouldn't you

have done a whole lot more wickedness? If you die at 50, you have a lot more to be punished for in Hell than you would have if you died

at 20.

So, here you are, 20, and out fighting the Jews in battle. You die in battle. You have a lot less to pay for in Hell than if you died

at 50, peacefully. The Jews have done you a favor by killing you.

If you had wanted to convert to God and be with the Jews, you could have left your family and the war, and have waited for peaceful

times to contact the Jews to convert. They would have let you.

Here you are right now, fighting against God. And death in youthfulness might even be gone for you, so that you don't build up a larger

amount of wickedness to be punished for in Hell. Turn to God so that He can wipe your wickedness away, so that you don't have to pay

for it in Hell. Such is a free gift from God, if you turn to Him.

Your choice, of course. God holds it open for you until the time of your death. Do you know when that will happen, exactly... the day

of your death, I mean?

Semantic ideas?! Atheists deal with facts! Theologians play with words and semantics, twisting everything until you're dizzy and agree

either because you're tired or all the twistings have "convinced" you. Until you're converted. Then they're (the Christians) happy.

Because that's their agenda. To convert you. They can't be happy alone. Everyone must be like them! They have the absolute truth.
Killing people that don't believe in God is doing them a favor?! Jeez dude! Isn't "thou shall not kill" one of the most sacred of the

ten commandments?! Dying quicker in life is better? That's the most stupid psychologism I've ever heard. Let me quote the man again:

"What have you been smoking dude?".
Also: you have less to pay if you die younger? Isn't hell forever? I mean if you die at 20 you only stay in hell forever instead of

"forever" if you die at 50... How about if I live until 100 and live a rational life without war, religion and other non-sense? And

dedicate my life to art and reason and science?
Fighting against God? He's all powerful. Don't tell me He's affraid. I mean it's enough just to blink and all His enemies would simply

wanish, right? What fighting? People are fighting because He allow it.
So after you die all is lost? You can't repent after death? What's with the rules? If it's true and sincere why not? The rules can't

changed? I mean, again, He is all powerful.

You forget one thing. God loved us so much, that He did the best for us. What is that best? God is giving us in our selves, Himself. He

is making us like Him. We have the choice to be like Him or not. How do we have that choice? He gave it to us. Either join Him and be

like Him, or do away with ourselves.

What's the question here? I'd slap you ion the face if I was God. And to think He offers you the greatest thing that there is... to be

like Him. And you even suggest turning it down. What an insult. Even you would be insulted if you offered someone a million dollars,

and besides not accepting it, all he did was to call you a piece of shit to your face.

Why am I not surprised that the "Christian" is the one talking about assaulting the non-Christian?  Kinda proving my point about

religion being the aggressor, dontcha think?

Let's say hypothetically, I'm wrong... God exists, he's the Christian God, etc... Would I worship him?  FUCK NO!!!  The God of

the bible is an evil bastard... I've read the bible... I would never love or worship that God even if the entire bible were 100%

true...

For more info, I'll refer you to Stephen Fry, because he does an amazing job explaining this exact point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-d4otHE-YI

"The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility."
- Pro 15:33

"By humility and the fear of the Lord are riches, and honour, and life."
- Pro 22:4

Don't you like Wisdom and Science?


Best regards.

From what I see Wisdom and Science are exactly what he talks about. What we all are trying to promote.

You forget one thing. God loved us so much, that He did the best for us. What is that best? God is giving us in our selves, Himself. He

is making us like Him. We have the choice to be like Him or not. How do we have that choice? He gave it to us. Either join Him and be

like Him, or do away with ourselves.

What's the question here? I'd slap you ion the face if I was God. And to think He offers you the greatest thing that there is... to be

like Him. And you even suggest turning it down. What an insult. Even you would be insulted if you offered someone a million dollars,

and besides not accepting it, all he did was to call you a piece of shit to your face.

Why am I not surprised that the "Christian" is the one talking about assaulting the non-Christian?  Kinda proving my point about

religion being the aggressor, dontcha think?

Let's say hypothetically, I'm wrong... God exists, he's the Christian God, etc... Would I worship him?  FUCK NO!!!  The God of

the bible is an evil bastard... I've read the bible... I would never love or worship that God even if the entire bible were 100%

true...

For more info, I'll refer you to Stephen Fry, because he does an amazing job explaining this point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-d4otHE-YI

You completely miss the point. You dare to insult God while He is holding your life in His hands. Wouldn't you crush a bug who insulted

you while you were trying to keep it alive? And hearing this, you don't stop, even though God in His mercy waits for you to change. How

long does He have to wait?

If we are so small in front of God why would He be insulted? I don't get insulted if a dog barks at me on the street.
God created Man to adore Him and then when that doesn't happen we are threaten with hell. That's arrogance.
That's not selflessness. We should have been created to be happy not to adore Him so that He can feel better about Himself.

God is just. He will punish wicked people according to the quantity and quality of their wickedness.

Says who?

Also, you are phrasing that incorrectly... "God is just" implies that justice exists without God... It's like saying, "God is good"...

well... that's not what you believe... you believe, "Good is God"... whatever God does is just/good, not because the act itself is

good, but because anything God does is exempt...  If God decides to murder innocent Egyptian children and animals by the tens of

thousands, its just/good because God did the murdering of innocent children (see the 10th plague of Egypt)

You believe that whatever God does is just/good, not because murder is just/good, but because when God does it, he's special and

exempt...

Now imagine as an example that you were 20 years old, and had been wicked all your life. By the time you were, say, 50, wouldn't you

have done a whole lot more wickedness? If you die at 50, you have a lot more to be punished for in Hell than you would have if you died

at 20.

Why do you assume that someone who doesn't believe in God is wicked/evil?  Are all atheists wicked in your eyes?  What about Muslims,

Hindu, Buddhist?  All evil too?

Just because someone doesn't believe in Santa without evidence, does not make them evil... it makes them less gullible than you...

Right again.

God is just. He will punish wicked people according to the quantity and quality of their wickedness.

Says who?

God says it Himself in the bible.

Also, you are phrasing that incorrectly... "God is just" implies that justice exists without God... It's like saying, "God is good"...

well... that's not what you believe... you believe, "Good is God"... whatever God does is just/good, not because the act itself is

good, but because anything God does is exempt...  If God decides to murder innocent Egyptian children and animals by the tens of

thousands, its just/good because God did the murdering of innocent children (see the 10th plague of Egypt)

You believe that whatever God does is just/good, not because murder is just/good, but because when God does it, he's special and

exempt...

All the more reason to say things like this to you. Why's that? Because you believe this way, and will understand them

better.

Now imagine as an example that you were 20 years old, and had been wicked all your life. By the time you were, say, 50, wouldn't you

have done a whole lot more wickedness? If you die at 50, you have a lot more to be punished for in Hell than you would have if you died

at 20.

Why do you assume that someone who doesn't believe in God is wicked/evil?  Are all atheists wicked in your eyes?  What about Muslims,

Hindu, Buddhist?  All evil too?

Just because someone doesn't believe in Santa without evidence, does not make them evil... it makes them less gullible than you...

Everyone who does not believe in God is wicked and evil. Why? Because one of the greatest things God made us for is to praise and

worship Him. If a person doesn't believe in God, any praise of God he does will only be incidental. He is not allowing himself to do

the thing that God made him for. This is wickedness... very great evil.

God didn't make people to go to Hell. When people in their stupidity and ignorance opted for the Hell route, God left a way open for

them to be saved. And this way wasn't only with the idea of simple salvation. It is designed to give people some of the glory of

Jesus... to be like God. And you want to throw it away.

God doesn't say anything in the Bible. God did not write the Bible. Men did.
"Everyone who does not believe in God is wicked and evil." Jeez dude! I don't like to call people stupid because I wouldn't like to be

called like that but you're asking for it. God gave us free will. So we're using it. If He wanted mindless drones He should have

created that! He gives us free will and then when we exercise it He gets upset? That's not right.
So He created us to worship Him and He did us a favor? Are you really that brainwashed? I mean, you do realize that makes no sense

right?

"The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility."
- Pro 15:33

"By humility and the fear of the Lord are riches, and honour, and life."
- Pro 22:4

Don't you like Wisdom and Science?

Best regards.

I can quote the bible too:

"If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. If she does not please the master who has

selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with

her." Exodus 21:7

"Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be

punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." Exodus 21:20

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his

wife." Exodus 22:16
(This is a great law for any rapist who wants to marry his rape victim... not so fun for the woman who is required to marry her rapist)

"Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the Lord must be destroyed" Exodus 22:20
(better start killing those other religions... God commands you to!)

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a

man." Numbers 31:17-18
(kill all the men, but keep the virgins as your property... now that's a plan!)

Can you answer questions?


Best regards.

No answers needed. Those verses speak for themselves. And actually he did answer, in between the parantheses under the verses.

God is just. He will punish wicked people according to the quantity and quality of their wickedness.

Says who?

God says it Himself in the bible.

God didn't write the bible, Christians stopped believing that ages ago (because some claims are provably incorrect in the bible)... so

nowadays, it's only "divinely inspired, but written by men"

Exactly. Everytime Christians are put against the wall with logic they use the "divine inspiration" card. And let's not forget the "God

knows everything, you don't because you're small and your mind is limited" bit.

Let's not even mention the fact that playing by the rules God supposedly created himself, he is destined to get fewer souls than

Satan...

Only around 30% of the world is Christian (even counting Mormons, etc)... If God gets <50% of the souls, he loses the game to Satan... 

Why would he create and play such a game?

Interesting argument. For a long time I felt like all this is a game for God.

Let's not even mention the fact that playing by the rules God supposedly created himself, he is destined to get fewer souls than

Satan...

Only around 30% of the world is Christian (even counting Mormons, etc)... If God gets <50% of the souls, he loses the game to Satan... 

Why would he create and play such a game?

To You (atheists): when you don't pick a side that's what you will receive.

Are you happy about being the catalyzer of all this bad "people"?


Best regards.

Pick sides? Isn't that a bit childish? Maybe we don't want to "pick sides". Maybe we want others to leave us alone. Maybe we want to be

Switzerland.

"The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility."
- Pro 15:33

"By humility and the fear of the Lord are riches, and honour, and life."
- Pro 22:4

Don't you like Wisdom and Science?

Best regards.

I can quote the bible too:

Then you can quote the best that there is to quote.

"If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. If she does not please the master who has

selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with

her." Exodus 21:7

"Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be

punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." Exodus 21:20

In America, a child is the

property of his parents.

In ancient Israel, the best laws of the day in the whole world abounded.

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his

wife." Exodus 22:16
(This is a great law for any rapist who wants to marry his rape victim... not so fun for the woman who is required to marry her

rapist)

Not rape. She accepted his seduction. Voluntarily.

The command is to the man. The woman already accepted him. Now he needs to keep his part of the seduction agreement.

"Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the Lord must be destroyed" Exodus 22:20
(better start killing those other religions... God commands you to!)

This is an Old Testament command to the nation of Israel.

Note that the passage, itself, doesn't state who is to do the destroying. Destruction happens to all who will not worship the God of

the ancient Israelites.

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a

man." Numbers 31:17-18
(kill all the men, but keep the virgins as your property... now that's a plan!)

This was a great plan. Killing all the people who were against God was a great form of praise and worship. Marrying the virgins helped

to keep in-breeding from happening, at the same time that the Israel men remained righteous by not killing a man and then stealing his

wife.

"In America, a child is the property of his parents." Really? Tell that to Child Services and see how fast they'll take your property.

Even better. Beat the child - you'll never see the kid again.
"Not rape. She accepted his seduction. Voluntarily." You don't have kids, do you? Or a daughter? Now if my daughter would get raped and

someone would tell me she accepted his seduction things would not end very well.
"This is an Old Testament command to the nation of Israel". Then let the "Israel from the old testament" to follow that rule. We'll

live in the current age of the world.
"Destruction happens to all who will not worship the God of the ancient Israelites."; Also: God chose favorites. It's not about all

people. The people of Israel are more special than us others. Let then the people of Israel to follow the rules that God created for

His favourites.
"This was a great plan. Killing all the people". I'll stop here with that quote. It's self explanatory. And again: it applies to the

people of Israel.

God made us to praise and worship Him.

Where did you get that idea?  It makes zero sense...

Just think about it... I know it's difficult, but try to put yourself in God's shoes for 2 seconds...

You are God... you are all-powerful... what do you do?  Create a universe for the sole purpose of having these little ants worship you?

 Nope... that's not it...

Ok, no more playing God, you are back to yourself again... Would you create an ant-farm and try to convince them to worship you?  Would

you be super happy if a few of them did worship you?  Does any of this make sense?

You have not thought about the glory of God deeply, what it is and how it works. You have not thought about what praise of God really

is, or how (in the case of praising God) the praise raises the people doing the praising up towards the level of Godness.

"the praise raises the people doing the praising up towards the level of Godness."? That makes no sense. Certain things, like gravity

can't be disputed because they're logical. Your way of thinking goes against gravity.

God is just. He will punish wicked people according to the quantity and quality of their wickedness.

Says who?

God says it Himself in the bible.

God didn't write the bible, Christians stopped believing that ages ago (because some claims are provably incorrect in the bible)... so

nowadays, it's only "divinely inspired, but written by men"

God is a Spirit. He doesn't pick up pen and paper, and write.

Rather, God infused the minds and spirits of certain people who believed in Him, with the words that He wanted written. Then they wrote

as He directed.

Bible claims are not incorrect. Often the understanding of people is backwards enough that they don't understand the claims of the

Bible correctly.

Just because a Christian doesn't understand everything in the Bible, doesn't make him a non-Christian. As long as he believes that

Jesus has forgiven him for his mistakes, he is forgiven and saved.

Why God only "infuses" minds? Why doesn't He show Himself? Don't tell me He's affraid!
"As long as he believes that Jesus has forgiven him for his mistakes, he is forgiven and saved." So: has Jesus forgiven sinners already

or not? Which is it?

How do you reach Wisdom and Science without the Lord?

Without religion and "The Dark Ages", we would be 300+ years more advanced in terms of science and technology...  religion

destroys science, murders scientists... religions burned the Library of Alexandria... not once, not twice, but THREE TIMES!

This such a true and sad, sad fact! We could have been so far ahead, it's heartbreaking. because it can be seen how many lives science

saves, but no! Religion doesn't want to save lives, religion wants to save souls, and for that you have to die!

Do you believe the Molech?

If I believed in מלך, I would not be an Atheist, would I?

Why would you believe in the Christian God?  He's a murderer! He also commands his followers to murder nearly everyone...

According to the bible, God personally murders:
The world with a flood (20 million?)
Sodom and Gammorah (50k?)
The firstborn son of every Egyptian (100k?) (Exodus 11:5)
The Egyptian army (a lot of soldiers)
The Assyrians (185,000) (2 Kings 19:35)
Isrealites (500,000+) (Numbers 16:49, Numbers 25:9, Deuteronomy 2:14-16, 1 Samuel 6:19, 2 Samuel 24)
...and many more...

God orders the Israelites to murder:
All the men, women and children in 60 cities (60 cities?!?) (Deuteronomy 3:6)
The Midianites (Numbers 31:17)
Jericho (Joshua 6:21)
The Cananites (Judges 1:4)
The Moabites (Judges 3:28)
...and many more...



Satan murders:
Sarah (1)
Job's wife, children, and servants (a dozen?) (this was completely condoned by God)
...and that's the complete list...

According to the bible, Satan kills a baker's dozen, while God kills by the millions...
God orders the Israelites to murder by the hundreds of thousands, committing genocide over a dozen times!... completely wiping out

civilizations!

And all this because: praise God or die! no third option.

Do you believe the Molech?

[elgeo]

Part 2:
If I believed in מלך, I would not be an Atheist, would I?

Why would you believe in the Christian God?  He's a murderer! He also commands his followers to murder nearly everyone...

According to the bible, God personally murders:
The world with a flood (20 million?)
Sodom and Gammorah (50k?)
The firstborn son of every Egyptian (100k?) (Exodus 11:5)
The Egyptian army (a lot of soldiers)
The Assyrians (185,000) (2 Kings 19:35)
Isrealites (500,000+) (Numbers 16:49, Numbers 25:9, Deuteronomy 2:14-16, 1 Samuel 6:19, 2 Samuel 24)
...and many more...

God orders the Israelites to murder:
All the men, women and children in 60 cities (60 cities?!?) (Deuteronomy 3:6)
The Midianites (Numbers 31:17)
Jericho (Joshua 6:21)
The Cananites (Judges 1:4)
The Moabites (Judges 3:28)
...and many more...



Satan murders:
Sarah (1)
Job's wife, children, and servants (a dozen?) (this was completely condoned by God)
...and that's the complete list...



[/quote]

You can answer questions: you proved that.

How do you reach Wisdom and Science without the Lord?


Best regards.
[/quote]

Wisdom and science have proved themselves time and time again! Science is proved and reached higher THROUGH b]science[/b].

Do you believe the Molech?

If I believed in מלך, I would not be an Atheist, would I?

Why would you believe in the Christian God?  He's a murderer! He also commands his followers to murder nearly everyone...

According to the bible, God personally murders:
The world with a flood (20 million?)
Sodom and Gammorah (50k?)
The firstborn son of every Egyptian (100k?) (Exodus 11:5)
The Egyptian army (a lot of soldiers)
The Assyrians (185,000) (2 Kings 19:35)
Isrealites (500,000+) (Numbers 16:49, Numbers 25:9, Deuteronomy 2:14-16, 1 Samuel 6:19, 2 Samuel 24)
...and many more...

God orders the Israelites to murder:
All the men, women and children in 60 cities (60 cities?!?) (Deuteronomy 3:6)
The Midianites (Numbers 31:17)
Jericho (Joshua 6:21)
The Cananites (Judges 1:4)
The Moabites (Judges 3:28)
...and many more...



Satan murders:
Sarah (1)
Job's wife, children, and servants (a dozen?) (this was completely condoned by God)
...and that's the complete list...

According to the bible, Satan kills a baker's dozen, while God kills by the millions...
God orders the Israelites to murder by the hundreds of thousands, committing genocide over a dozen times!... completely wiping out

civilizations!

First of all, God isn't a murder. Why not? God owns everything. So, even if He takes life away, He was the One Who gave it in the first

place. It is His by right, to do with as He pleases.

Second, God does not take life away where mankind has not thrown it away already. In fact, it is through Jesus God that mankind has

life on earth the second time. The first time mankind threw it away through the sin of Adam and Eve. God forgave them, and granted life

to them so that you and I and all the rest of the people can have life.

How many opportunities does God give? Many. Every time a person thwarts and attempts to thwart the laws that God has set in place, and

the person does not immediately die from doing so, God has saved the person for another day, and given him/her some more chances.

In the Old Testament, when people of nations turned away from God and were destroyed by Israel or God Himself, the idea was to make

Israel strong so that Jesus could come at the right time to do His saving work. Without the saving work of Jesus, those nations would

have not existed in the first place, would not have had a chance to live, and would not have had the chance to be saved. Their

destruction was a thing that they were asking for by their actions against God. He was simply giving them what they asked for, and

preparing the Jesus-way so that they could have life in the first place.

The point of all this is the example for you and all people. Are we going to be like the nations God destroyed? Or are we going to be

like the people He saves?

Notice that all people, both godly and ungodly, die. The whole idea has to do with the salvation to eternal life. The second thing it

has to do with is the avoidance of eternal damnation.

Your chances may not be over yet. You may not be locked into unbelief yet. Turn while you have a chance, before you lock yourself into

damnation through your death in this life. Once you die, you have no more chance to be saved, because you have no more ability to turn

and believe in Jesus salvation.

Even if you happened to be right regarding your honor, that you would not follow a God who was a murderer. What does it matter? You are

still stupidly clinging to your eternal damnation for the sake of honor? Is it worth it for what you consider to be honor? On top of

it, is it worth it in light of the fact that it might not be honor at all, but that you might be mistaken about what is honorable?

God created all. God sustains all. Mankind causes his own death by rejecting God, the only Sustainer of life.

God isn't a murderer? Really? Adam and Eve at first were immortals. Then God offered them the gift of death. And from that point on to

every living being. God has killed, kills, anw will kill anyone that was, is and ever will live on this Earth God is the greatest

killer.

Maybe some of us don't have the second life. Maybe we want eternal life here. Maybe we should have that choice. Not going to certain

death and be threaten that if we don't do certain things (some of which are not even bad) we'll go to hell. No praising God
? You go to hell. It's as simple as that.

"God created all." God destroyer of all.
"God sustains all." God killer of all.
"God, the only Sustainer of life." God the greatest killer ever was. Ironic how sinners cause their own deaths. But how about the

purest of people, that went above and beyond God's rules, and loved Him so much, why do they die?

First of all, God isn't a murder. Why not? God owns everything. So, even if He takes life away, He was the One Who gave it in the first

place. It is His by right, to do with as He pleases.

So you condone murdering your own children for any reason?  How could you claim that to be moral?

How many opportunities does God give? Many. Every time a person thwarts and attempts to thwart the laws that God has set in place, and

the person does not immediately die from doing so, God has saved the person for another day, and given him/her some more chances.

I would advise you to read the Exodus from Egypt...

Does God give Pharaoh many chances?  NO! You didn't actually read it did you?

According to scripture, Pharaoh was ready to let the Israelites go after Moses asked the first time, but "God hardened Pharaoh's

heart" each time so he could send plague after plague at him... Eventually murdering the firstborn child of every Egyptian citizen,

servant and animal

Basically God is punishing the Egyptians for a non-sin... because Pharaoh wanted to let them go, until God stopped him by hardening his

heart...

wtf is that about?  God sounds like a real asshat in this story too...

It's a gama I tell you! God is bored and plays more and more cruel games!

First of all, God isn't a murder. Why not? God owns everything. So, even if He takes life away, He was the One Who gave it in the first

place. It is His by right, to do with as He pleases.

So you condone murdering your own children for any reason?  How could you claim that to be moral?

Haven't we just been talking

about the illegality of murder? Why do you ask such silly things? Even though my children are mine and my wife's as property, they are

God's, as well, because He gives the kids their spirit.

How long will you continue to twist understanding all out of shape?

How many opportunities does God give? Many. Every time a person thwarts and attempts to thwart the laws that God has set in place, and

the person does not immediately die from doing so, God has saved the person for another day, and given him/her some more chances.

I would advise you to read the Exodus from Egypt...

Does God give Pharaoh many chances?  NO! You didn't actually read it did you?

According to scripture, Pharaoh was ready to let the Israelites go after Moses asked the first time, but "God hardened Pharaoh's

heart" each time so he could send plague after plague at him... Eventually killing the firstborn child of every Egyptian citizen,

servant and animal

Basically God is punishing the Egyptians for a non-sin... because Pharaoh wanted to let them go, until God stopped him by hardening his

heart...

wtf is that about?  God sounds like a real asshat in this story...

There God goes again. He hardens your heart. Why? Because you essentially asked Him to, simply by your thinking and actions. You saw

where it got Pharaoh. But you keep right on asking for God to do it to you, just like Pharaoh did.

You should feel relieved that God isn't trying to set up a nation of Israel next to you. He just might have to rain some plagues down

on you to show His glory to His people Israel. If that happened, you might forget all the many previous chances God gave you, simply

because of the pain of the plagues. Rather, God is merciful towards you, calling to you, a lost (almost lost?) child, hoping for your

salvation before it is too late for you.

So the Pharaoh wants to let the people of Israel free and God hardens his heart, because the pharaoh wants that? Is there any logic in

what you're saying? Because it sounds that you're just typing nonsensical words. God seems to be like a child. Do what I want or I'll

kill you!

First of all, God isn't a murder. Why not? God owns everything. So, even if He takes life away, He was the One Who gave it in the first

place. It is His by right, to do with as He pleases.

Well, rather convenient isn't it?
I don't like the idea of being owned by a God or whatever 

I think this is somewhat the thing we are talking about.

God made everything. He maintains everything, even your life, and all the good opportunities and pleasures you have... as well as the

troubles, but He makes those bearable for you.

There is no way that any of us could maintain ourselves if we divorced ourselves from God. Without God, we would not have life.

Why are you so against God, since you yourself are a gift from Him to you? Doesn't seem to make sense for anyone to be against God.

"He makes everything bearable?" I've heard this stupid thing all my life. Everything is bearable until you die. No matter what happens

and how bad it is, until the point that you're not just dead, it's "bearable". Maybe it is, maybe it's not, but just because you're not

dead doesn't mean that it's "bearable"!
"you yourself are a gift from Him to you" - does this even have any logic? I mean I've read it 3 times but no it's nonsense.\

First of all, God isn't a murder. Why not? God owns everything. So, even if He takes life away, He was the One Who gave it in the first

place. It is His by right, to do with as He pleases.

Well, rather convenient isn't it?
I don't like the idea of being owned by a God or whatever 

I think this is somewhat the thing we are talking about.

God made everything. He maintains everything, even your life, and all the good opportunities and pleasures you have... as well as the

troubles, but He makes those bearable for you.

There is no way that any of us could maintain ourselves if we divorced ourselves from God. Without God, we would not have life.

Why are you so against God, since you yourself are a gift from Him to you? Doesn't seem to make sense for anyone to be against God.

Well, why being for him? What did he do for me? He has no influence in our daily life no?

He made you. He gave you your spirit. He maintains everything so that you can go on living. He maintains your daily life. He offers you

salvation to eternal life through faith in His Son Jesus.

That's just blackmail, and I'll say no more.

First of all, God isn't a murder. Why not? God owns everything. So, even if He takes life away, He was the One Who gave it in the first

place. It is His by right, to do with as He pleases.

Murder is purposely killing a person. Whether or not you own that person is not in the definition - the only important thing is whether

or not the murder was "lawful".

God can't be left out of any of the picture. The whole operation of people dying is something

that happens in the process of God maintaining every little thing in the universe. His maintenance of everything includes giving us

death when we ask for it. This isn't the same as simple murder. Things are completely different from the God-standpoint than the man-

standpoint.

If God exists and is omnipotent, or even only omniscient, it will obey no human laws and so if this God kills a person in a way that is

not allowed by the laws of a particular nation, it does so unlawfully. It doesn't matter that you think this God's law should have

primacy.

God's law is to not murder. The laws of nations come about because people are basing their laws on what God has set in

place... although often people mess God's perfect laws up when they don't consult Him first.

Given the above (God exists, God is at least omniscient) then if a person's death results from this God's actions in a way considered

unlawful by a given nation, then that God has committed a  murder in that nation.

Quite the contrary. God is maintaining life.

It is mankind who has brought death upon himself. However, since God controls everything, it is His doing that exercises mans' request

for death, be that request by voice or by action.

Interestingly this means that God cannot commit murder in countries that have religious laws since I'm fairly certain they would by

definition  exempt their God from any crime.

Here is where you fail in your thinking. God has prepared a day of resurrection for all people, where He will bring us all back to

life. At that time, he will separate the righteous from the unrighteous. The righteous are those who have believed in God for the

salvation offered through His Son, Jesus. The unrighteous are those who have not believed God, or have sought salvation by some other

method than Jesus even though they might have believed God exists.

You have a chance, now, by reading this writing. Come to faith in Jesus God before you lock yourself into unbelief by dying without

faith. after all, once you are dead, you can't change anything about your situation.

"giving us death when we ask for it". The only time people are asking for death is when they can't stand the pain and suffering of

life, which from your standpoint are all given to us by God. It's the same as with God hardening the Pharao's heart all over again.

Yeah - people can't consult God about the law because God doesn't show Himself. Why?

exercises mans' request for death" - well hear me: I don't want to die! I want to live forever!

"after all, once you are dead, you can't change anything about your situation." Really? Wasn't He the One who made the rules? And as He

is Omnipotent He can change them, right? People can't repent after death? Pretty convenient.

First of all, God isn't a murder. Why not? God owns everything. So, even if He takes life away, He was the One Who gave it in the first

place. It is His by right, to do with as He pleases.

Well, rather convenient isn't it?
I don't like the idea of being owned by a God or whatever 

I think this is somewhat the thing we are talking about.

God made everything. He maintains everything, even your life, and all the good opportunities and pleasures you have... as well as the

troubles, but He makes those bearable for you.

There is no way that any of us could maintain ourselves if we divorced ourselves from God. Without God, we would not have life.

Why are you so against God, since you yourself are a gift from Him to you? Doesn't seem to make sense for anyone to be against God.

Well, why being for him? What did he do for me? He has no influence in our daily life no?

He made you. He gave you your spirit. He maintains everything so that you can go on living. He maintains your daily life. He offers you

salvation to eternal life through faith in His Son Jesus.

What does he do in my daily life? Never seen anything your god did for me... Is he responsible for anything happening in my life?

What? You can't see? I'm sorry.

Can you feel? You know, can your fingers feel the keyboard? Or do you dictate and someone else does the typing for you?

If you dictate, you can speak, right? And you probably can hear if you know how to speak, right.

God gave you all of this and maintains it in ways that you don't know how to. And it is the same for everyone else.

"maintains it in ways that you don't know how to." - ok, so how about itwhen man will be able to create life? To defeat death? Because

that's not far from now. What then? In what way will God fear us and stop us from advancing? Or will we become gods ourselves?

Religions, the plague of the 21st century 

and the 20th, and the 19th, and the 18th...

Of every century my friend.

First of all, God isn't a murder. Why not? God owns everything. So, even if He takes life away, He was the One Who gave it in the first

place. It is His by right, to do with as He pleases.

Well, rather convenient isn't it?
I don't like the idea of being owned by a God or whatever 

I think this is somewhat the thing we are talking about.

God made everything. He maintains everything, even your life, and all the good opportunities and pleasures you have... as well as the

troubles, but He makes those bearable for you.

There is no way that any of us could maintain ourselves if we divorced ourselves from God. Without God, we would not have life.

Why are you so against God, since you yourself are a gift from Him to you? Doesn't seem to make sense for anyone to be against God.

Well, why being for him? What did he do for me? He has no influence in our daily life no?

He made you. He gave you your spirit. He maintains everything so that you can go on living. He maintains your daily life. He offers you

salvation to eternal life through faith in His Son Jesus.

What does he do in my daily life? Never seen anything your god did for me... Is he responsible for anything happening in my life?

What? You can't see? I'm sorry.

Can you feel? You know, can your fingers feel the keyboard? Or do you dictate and someone else does the typing for you?

If you dictate, you can speak, right? And you probably can hear if you know how to speak, right.

God gave you all of this and maintains it in ways that you don't know how to. And it is the same for everyone else.

This has nothing to do with your god.

It's only a question of biology and evolution... You claim your god is behind the evolution process?

Evolution!?  Now, there's a joke. All the proven things that are called "evolution," can also be demonstrated to be "programming."

Presently, there isn't enough evolution fact around that shows how anything could have developed from scratch by evolution. And if

somebody DID happen to show an evolution process that had no holes in it, so that it was absolutely possible for something to have come

about by evolution, there is STILL no way to prove that this is what really DID happen.

Furthermore, nowhere in the universe have we found anything that is greater being produced by something that is lesser. There is much

scientific speculation about this. But it is not seen anywhere. In fact the opposite is the only thing that we see.

Everything has to do with my God... the God of creation.

Everything during hystory that was not explained and up to the point when it was explained was considered either magic or from God ar

other nonsense. Think about all the great discoveries that were made only in the last 100 years. We went from walking bearfooted in the

mud to the moon and beyond. We live in a Golden Age of discovery and we'll defeat soon even death. Then we'll be no longer blackmailed

with death and religion.

That's special pleading. Either God follows man's laws or

does not. If you say that logic can take a break where God is concerned, then one can not have a logical discussion with you about God.

True words. When it comes to God logic is put aside, eyes are closed and reason is thrown out the window.

This has nothing to do with your god.

It's only a question of biology and evolution... You claim your god is behind the evolution process?

Evolution!?  Now, there's a joke. All the proven things that are called "evolution," can also be demonstrated to be "programming."

Presently, there isn't enough evolution fact around that shows how anything could have developed from scratch by evolution. And if

somebody DID happen to show an evolution process that had no holes in it, so that it was absolutely possible for something to have come

about by evolution, there is STILL no way to prove that this is what really DID happen.

Furthermore, nowhere in the universe have we found anything that is greater being produced by something that is lesser. There is much

scientific speculation about this. But it is not seen anywhere. In fact the opposite is the only thing that we see.

Everything has to do with my God... the God of creation.

So you're denying the idea of evolution?

Well I understand better xD
Evolution is not just a "theory". It has been proven through Darwin's experiments then verified by multiple different scientists. It's

through the evolution principles are the base of multiple scientific progresses.

How can I be denying the idea of evolution when I am talking about it? As usual, you are not thinking clearly. The idea of evolution

makes for fun thinking and stimulation. Think of all the science fiction stories that would never have existed if the idea of evolution

was not around. Besides, it's in the textbooks. I'd have to have been a hermit on mountain all my life to deny the idea.

The term "evolution" has come to mean many things to many people. Some of these might be truth. But many of them are not. Because of

this, when you say that evolution has been proven, you are wrong, except that you explain the particular definitions and applications

of the term "evolution" where it might happen to be exist factually. Darwin's experiments never came close to proving evolution. Even

Darwin, himself, doubted his own work. Read the things that he says.

"Evolution" as a principle where more complex life comes about from less complex life is completely flawed. Such a thing doesn't happen

in nature that anybody has been able to find. When a scientist creates evolution under laboratory conditions, it is complex life (the

scientist) making less complex material to become more complex material.

The evolution principle that over time one species of creature becomes a different species is completely flawed. There aren't any

missing links that can be proven such in the fossil record. People may theorize. People may hope. But in the end, there is no

proof.

The evolution principle that inorganic material became life is completely flawed. Not only is there no evidence of such happening, we

complex humans can't even make it happen in the laboratory.

So, what is your definition or application that is termed "evolution" that actually works?

So you're trying to prove your theory by using science fictions books? You did see the "fiction" part did you? But still, if you

actually want to use the sci-fi card, think about the many real life discoveries that have been made due to science fiction.

"where it might happen to be exist factually"? Make up your mind dude. Does or doesn't it exist?

The simple fac is that there are certain things that we do not understant. YET. But this situation repeated itseld in hystory countless

times. And science transformed magic into understandable reality for everyone.

Evolution is a fact:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_fact_and_theory#Fact

biologist Richard Lenski says, "Scientific understanding requires both facts and theories that can explain those facts in a

coherent manner. Evolution, in this context, is both a fact and a theory. It is an incontrovertible fact that organisms have changed,

or evolved, during the history of life on Earth. And biologists have identified and investigated mechanisms that can explain the major

patterns of change."

Evolution has been verified by multiple branches of science...

The fossil record shows both short-term and long-term evolution in numerous species of creature living on this planet.

The genetic record shows both short-term and long-term evolution in numerous species of creature living on this planet.

The gestation record shows both short-term and long-term evolution in numerous species of creature living on this planet.

The medical record shows both short-term and long-term evolution in numerous species of creature living on this planet. (deprecated

organ systems like tonsils)

Evolution has been proven under laboratory tests and conditions:


http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/scientists-watch-wasps-diverge-become-separate-species

What more do you want?!?

Logic excapes the grasp of his mind. He wants God Himself to tell him, through a divined-inspired writer that evolution is true.

Evolution is a fact:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_fact_and_theory#Fact

biologist Richard Lenski says, "Scientific understanding requires both facts and theories that can explain those facts in a

coherent manner. Evolution, in this context, is both a fact and a theory. It is an incontrovertible fact that organisms have changed,

or evolved, during the history of life on Earth. And biologists have identified and investigated mechanisms that can explain the major

patterns of change."

Evolution has been verified by multiple branches of science...

The fossil record shows both short-term and long-term evolution in numerous species of creature living on this planet.

The genetic record shows both short-term and long-term evolution in numerous species of creature living on this planet.

The gestation record shows both short-term and long-term evolution in numerous species of creature living on this planet.

Evolution has been proven under laboratory tests and conditions:


http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/scientists-watch-wasps-diverge-become-separate-species

What more do you want?!?

How can you talk about something (Science) if you don't know it?


Best regards.

You're not mentally reduced are you?
The man not only speaks in scientific terms (which if you don't understand is not his problem) but also gave you references, that would

be advisable that you read.

How can you talk about something (Science) if you don't know it?

Once again, Science and Religion are polar opposites... religion has NOTHING to do with science... religion murders scientists,

burns their books and libraries... religion HATES science... what don't you understand here?

Religion pushes for non-truths to be taught in schools (intelligent design, etc)

Religion denies the fact of Evolution...

Religion is bigotry at its finest!...  Religion condones slavery, homophobia, murdering your own children, etc

Religion HATES Science, facts, and reality!

Conclusion: religion hates real life!

Evolution is a fact:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_fact_and_theory#Fact

biologist Richard Lenski says, "Scientific understanding requires both facts and theories that can explain those facts in a

coherent manner. Evolution, in this context, is both a fact and a theory. It is an incontrovertible fact that organisms have changed,

or evolved, during the history of life on Earth. And biologists have identified and investigated mechanisms that can explain the major

patterns of change."

Evolution has been verified by multiple branches of science...

The fossil record shows both short-term and long-term evolution in numerous species of creature living on this planet.

The genetic record shows both short-term and long-term evolution in numerous species of creature living on this planet.

The gestation record shows both short-term and long-term evolution in numerous species of creature living on this planet.

The medical record shows both short-term and long-term evolution in numerous species of creature living on this planet. (deprecated

organ systems like tonsils)

Evolution has been proven under laboratory tests and conditions:


http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/scientists-watch-wasps-diverge-become-separate-species

What more do you want?!?

Wikipedia can be edited by anybody.

None of the so-called evolution listings you listed is any more that pre-programming. It has been suggested to be evolution. The word

"evolution" may have been changed in meaning to cover the pre-programming. But it isn't evolution in the sense that there is

spontaneous random happenstance. Spontaneous randomness is completely against the fundamentals of all science.

Wasps changing, if it happens to be the truth, is pre-programming written in the DNA.

Btw, scientific understanding includes science theory. Theory is not fact. If it were, it would not be theory. Because of this, theory

must be considered to be fictional until it is proven to be fact. The point is, scientific understanding is partially fiction. Thus,

science is science fiction.

Jeez what twisted logic you have. That's why I can't talk with you religious nuts. First you make me mad, than you make me laugh.
Theory is science that's not applied yet. If I give you a recipe for bread (which is the theory of making bread) is it science fiction

until you don't actually cook the bread? Use your brain! Don't let it ba a sponge for other people's garbage.

How can you talk about something (Science) if you don't know it?

Once again, Science and Religion are polar opposites... religion has NOTHING to do with science... religion murders scientists,

burns their books and libraries... religion HATES science... what don't you understand here?

Religion pushes for non-truths to be taught in schools (intelligent design, etc)

Religion denies the fact of Evolution...

Religion is bigotry at its finest!...  Religion condones slavery, homophobia, murdering your own children, etc

Religion HATES Science, facts, and reality!

Science comes from Wisdom which comes from the Fear of the Lord.

How do you understand Science without Wisdom?

What religion are you talking about?


Best regards.

Enough with the rhetorical non-sensical questions. It doesn't help.

This has nothing to do with your god.

It's only a question of biology and evolution... You claim your god is behind the evolution process?

Evolution!?  Now, there's a joke. All the proven things that are called "evolution," can also be demonstrated to be "programming."

Presently, there isn't enough evolution fact around that shows how anything could have developed from scratch by evolution. And if

somebody DID happen to show an evolution process that had no holes in it, so that it was absolutely possible for something to have come

about by evolution, there is STILL no way to prove that this is what really DID happen.

Furthermore, nowhere in the universe have we found anything that is greater being produced by something that is lesser. There is much

scientific speculation about this. But it is not seen anywhere. In fact the opposite is the only thing that we see.

Everything has to do with my God... the God of creation.

So you're denying the idea of evolution?

Well I understand better xD
Evolution is not just a "theory". It has been proven through Darwin's experiments then verified by multiple different scientists. It's

through the evolution principles are the base of multiple scientific progresses.

How can I be denying the idea of evolution when I am talking about it? As usual, you are not thinking clearly. The idea of evolution

makes for fun thinking and stimulation. Think of all the science fiction stories that would never have existed if the idea of evolution

was not around. Besides, it's in the textbooks. I'd have to have been a hermit on mountain all my life to deny the idea.

The term "evolution" has come to mean many things to many people. Some of these might be truth. But many of them are not. Because of

this, when you say that evolution has been proven, you are wrong, except that you explain the particular definitions and applications

of the term "evolution" where it might happen to be exist factually. Darwin's experiments never came close to proving evolution. Even

Darwin, himself, doubted his own work. Read the things that he says.

"Evolution" as a principle where more complex life comes about from less complex life is completely flawed. Such a thing doesn't happen

in nature that anybody has been able to find. When a scientist creates evolution under laboratory conditions, it is complex life (the

scientist) making less complex material to become more complex material.

The evolution principle that over time one species of creature becomes a different species is completely flawed. There aren't any

missing links that can be proven such in the fossil record. People may theorize. People may hope. But in the end, there is no

proof.

The evolution principle that inorganic material became life is completely flawed. Not only is there no evidence of such happening, we

complex humans can't even make it happen in the laboratory.

So, what is your definition or application that is termed "evolution" that actually works?

Well... I don't know if you ever tried to read anything about evolution... Seems to me you didn't. Otherwise you would know that

evolution is largely proven, that we managed to list each and every species in a precise evolution order and that everythin matches

with such perfection that it would be incredible that this theory is flawed as you say.

But that means you believe humans were created the way they are now? So that we didn't evolve from a common ancestor with great apes?

And when was the humanity created?

Not only that, but I even read "Planet of the Apes" book, saw the movie, saw a couple of the sequels, and read the some of the papers

on evolution. Actual papers on evolution only suggest that evolution might be fact. Much media says it is fact. Have you seen it in

"Enquirer?"

Oh wait! He's seen the ape movie! Now that must be true enough to convince him. I mean all this scientific evidence and he's convinced

by a movie... (I was about to ask the Lord for strength but then I stopped myself).

Not only that, but I even read "Planet of the Apes" book, saw the movie, saw a couple of the sequels, and read the some of the papers

on evolution. Actual papers on evolution only suggest that evolution might be fact. Much media says it is fact. Have you seen it in

"Enquirer?"

Watching you argue about fact of evolution is like watching a Christian try to argue that the bible is historically accurate...

Wherever you got your "facts", they are 100% wrong...

Do you think its a conspiracy that 99.9% of scientists accept evolution as a fact?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/02/creationism-america-survey_n_5434107.html

Anyone can edit Wikipedia. And you haven' figured out that the media is there for sensationalism, yet?

You do see that out of those 6 links, just one is from Wikipedia, right?

Since you are unwilling to look at the facts, but would rather believe the media lies and exaggerations, you will probably feel quite

comfortable in your atheism and evolution religions. Ostrich with head in sand feel comfortable, too.

The problem is... 99.9% of scientists accept evolution... why would I listen to the 0.01% who deny it?  Why do you listen to that

rubbish?

No. The humor is that you seem to think that 99% of scientists accept evolution as truth.

 

There are two points in that phrase: the "99%" and the "scientists".
That should be enough.

So because you think there isn't enough evidence to prove evolution you decide to trust in god which has even less evidence? Why?

Actually, part of the scientific proof for the existence of God is some of what destroys evolution.

Standard science maintains a law which is cause and effect. Everything operates through cause and effect. There is nothing that doesn't

operate by cause and effect.

The complexity of the universe is self evident.

Entropy is a universal force(?) that attempts to equalize everything. There is no reverse entropy anywhere that we know about.

When you combine the three things, cause and effect, complexity, and entropy, the only way that the universe can exist is that it was

made by intelligent design, by some Intelligence that fits our dictionary definitions of the word "God."

This brief explanation doesn't explain the attributes of God, except to say that He/It is extremely powerful, and way more intelligent

than we are.

You're disproving yourself again. It's funny to watch you do it.
Entropy is a universal force. If it's a force "that attempts to equalize everything" then what is it fighting for? The simple

fact that you call it a force demojnstrates that there is a counterforce.

So because you think there isn't enough evidence to prove evolution you decide to trust in god which has even less evidence? Why?

Actually, part of the scientific proof for the existence of God is some of what destroys evolution.

Wait, what?!?  Science has proof for the existence of God?!?  This must be a breaking news story from every media outlet on the

planet... why haven't I heard of this?

Wouldn't do you any good. You wouldn't understand it. But if by some chance you happened to understand, you would fight it

intentionally, just like you are doing now.

He's going in reverse mode again. Dude. Now's the time to show him, all of us that you're right. You seem to have the proof AND out

undivided attention.

There's a God and we do not need science to prove His existence to us

This is true. The idea is to show atheists that God exists in language they understand, before they die in their sins. Obviously, many

of them will simply pull back into their shell rather than seek God and a joyful eternal life in Heaven. But a few of them will turn.

And many border-line Christians will see how God truly DOES exist, and will be strengthened in their Christianity.

How did you choose to believe in christianity in the first place?

I heard God's words from the Bible. The Holy Spirit worked faith in my heart. I happened to not be one of the obstinate ones who was so

stubborn that I had the ability to resist the Holy Spirit. Rather, at that time I was weak in spiritual strength.

Perhaps my obstinacy has grown. Perhaps if I didn't see the logic of God now that I have experience with Him, I might resist Him along

with the atheists.

Then let God work faith into your heart, and let us atheists have science work it's wonders in ours. We'll leave you alone, and we just

ask that you do the same and stop knocking on our doors saturday mornings at 7 o'clock when we're sleeping after a hard night of

science.
Jeez, I mean you don't see atheists stopping people in the street trying to convince them they're wrong. We'd like to ask you the same

courtesy.

[valta4065]

Dude, I didn't even finished to read but... How can you have the patience to quote and answer to all of this? xD

Gonna start reading ^^'

[valta4065]

Ok. I agree with most of what you say. It's clear that the Bible can't just be the truth.

The Bible is an old book written in ancient times. What's important is not the exact text but the message behind. And the message is really clear: love all and forgive everything.

You can't insult or threaten atheists. In my heart I'm pretty sure that, whatever the Bible says, they will be welcomed and judged as anyone. Not just go to hell because they didn't have the faith. Why would they be punished for not having Him in their heart? They already lived without the comfort of believing in Him! Why would He punish them even in the afterlife???

I think it's all about faith and they're is nothing more personal than faith, so they can't be judged

[Holdaaja]

Ok. I agree with most of what you say. It's clear that the Bible can't just be the truth.

The Bible is an old book written in ancient times. What's important is not the exact text but the message behind. And the message is really clear: love all and forgive everything.

You can't insult or threaten atheists. In my heart I'm pretty sure that, whatever the Bible says, they will be welcomed and judged as anyone. Not just go to hell because they didn't have the faith. Why would they be punished for not having Him in their heart? They already lived without the comfort of believing in Him! Why would He punish them even in the afterlife???

I think it's all about faith and they're is nothing more personal than faith, so they can't be judged

How can you take bibles message "love all and forgive everything" when it says you need to kill people etc?

[valta4065]

Ok. I agree with most of what you say. It's clear that the Bible can't just be the truth.

The Bible is an old book written in ancient times. What's important is not the exact text but the message behind. And the message is really clear: love all and forgive everything.

You can't insult or threaten atheists. In my heart I'm pretty sure that, whatever the Bible says, they will be welcomed and judged as anyone. Not just go to hell because they didn't have the faith. Why would they be punished for not having Him in their heart? They already lived without the comfort of believing in Him! Why would He punish them even in the afterlife???

I think it's all about faith and they're is nothing more personal than faith, so they can't be judged

How can you take bibles message "love all and forgive everything" when it says you need to kill people etc?

It doesn't!
It's also a question of which part you consider. The Bible is a generic name but there are many versions of the sacred texts. It depends on the traduction yes, but also on the categories of texts you accept.

For example, the Leviticus is something I don't consider as being part of the Bible. It's just an old law text in fact, it was added to the words of God in order to control the actions of the population.

Jesus never kills anyone, and he's the son of God. His words are the ones important, anything different in the Bible was just added by the Church to enforce their control on the population that's all!

you can have faith in our Lord and still understand that the Bible is a text that was written long time ago and selected by the Catholic church ^^

[Holdaaja]

Ok. I agree with most of what you say. It's clear that the Bible can't just be the truth.

The Bible is an old book written in ancient times. What's important is not the exact text but the message behind. And the message is really clear: love all and forgive everything.

You can't insult or threaten atheists. In my heart I'm pretty sure that, whatever the Bible says, they will be welcomed and judged as anyone. Not just go to hell because they didn't have the faith. Why would they be punished for not having Him in their heart? They already lived without the comfort of believing in Him! Why would He punish them even in the afterlife???

I think it's all about faith and they're is nothing more personal than faith, so they can't be judged

How can you take bibles message "love all and forgive everything" when it says you need to kill people etc?

It doesn't!
It's also a question of which part you consider. The Bible is a generic name but there are many versions of the sacred texts. It depends on the traduction yes, but also on the categories of texts you accept.

For example, the Leviticus is something I don't consider as being part of the Bible. It's just an old law text in fact, it was added to the words of God in order to control the actions of the population.

Jesus never kills anyone, and he's the son of God. His words are the ones important, anything different in the Bible was just added by the Church to enforce their control on the population that's all!

you can have faith in our Lord and still understand that the Bible is a text that was written long time ago and selected by the Catholic church ^^

Yes it does.

http://www.biblica.com/en-us/bible/online-bible/niv/deuteronomy/13/
http://biblehub.com/leviticus/20-13.htm

"troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely"

" Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death."

"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

[eon89]

An important thing to remember is that the Bible is a collection of books, written by different people in different times addressing different needs of that time period.
I, personally think that if you are and want to be a good person, then you choose the good parts and leave the ones that are not good, or not useful for our modern age aside.

[Holdaaja]

An important thing to remember is that the Bible is a collection of books, written by different people in different times addressing different needs of that time period.
I, personally think that if you are and want to be a good person, then you choose the good parts and leave the ones that are not good, or not useful for our modern age aside.

Why can you believe some parts of bible but not all?
How can you possibly know what in bible is true and what not?

You can't. You could as well believe that god created us because he is sadist who enjoys to kill and torture us. And only way to escape from his evil is to deny his existence. Why not?

[valta4065]

Ok. I agree with most of what you say. It's clear that the Bible can't just be the truth.

The Bible is an old book written in ancient times. What's important is not the exact text but the message behind. And the message is really clear: love all and forgive everything.

You can't insult or threaten atheists. In my heart I'm pretty sure that, whatever the Bible says, they will be welcomed and judged as anyone. Not just go to hell because they didn't have the faith. Why would they be punished for not having Him in their heart? They already lived without the comfort of believing in Him! Why would He punish them even in the afterlife???

I think it's all about faith and they're is nothing more personal than faith, so they can't be judged

How can you take bibles message "love all and forgive everything" when it says you need to kill people etc?

It doesn't!
It's also a question of which part you consider. The Bible is a generic name but there are many versions of the sacred texts. It depends on the traduction yes, but also on the categories of texts you accept.

For example, the Leviticus is something I don't consider as being part of the Bible. It's just an old law text in fact, it was added to the words of God in order to control the actions of the population.

Jesus never kills anyone, and he's the son of God. His words are the ones important, anything different in the Bible was just added by the Church to enforce their control on the population that's all!

you can have faith in our Lord and still understand that the Bible is a text that was written long time ago and selected by the Catholic church ^^

Yes it does.

http://www.biblica.com/en-us/bible/online-bible/niv/deuteronomy/13/
http://biblehub.com/leviticus/20-13.htm

"troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely"

" Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death."

"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Did you read me? I think not as I say I don't consider Leveticus to be part of the Bible and you quote it here.

Just read me again. Jesus doesn't say that. He refers only to love and pardon. If the son of God himself says that, why would I care if some old religious men decided to add punishment in the sacred texts centuries ago?

You consider the Bible you have as the one and only right, but the Bible is a collection of multiple books. Most of them have been wrongly written and added by the church to control the population and I don't consider them as sacred and part of God's will.

[valta4065]

An important thing to remember is that the Bible is a collection of books, written by different people in different times addressing different needs of that time period.
I, personally think that if you are and want to be a good person, then you choose the good parts and leave the ones that are not good, or not useful for our modern age aside.

Why can you believe some parts of bible but not all?
How can you possibly know what in bible is true and what not?

You can't. You could as well believe that god created us because he is sadist who enjoys to kill and torture us. And only way to escape from his evil is to deny his existence. Why not?

Again this is easy.
We know how the Bible was written. Parts of the Bible gives the world directly from the mouth of Jesus, how could the son of God who lived and died for us be wrong?

Any part of the Bible in contradiction with His son is wrong and shouldn't be considered as sacred 

"You could as well believe that god created us because he is sadist who enjoys to kill and torture us."
Maybe. Why not?

[Holdaaja]

An important thing to remember is that the Bible is a collection of books, written by different people in different times addressing different needs of that time period.
I, personally think that if you are and want to be a good person, then you choose the good parts and leave the ones that are not good, or not useful for our modern age aside.

Why can you believe some parts of bible but not all?
How can you possibly know what in bible is true and what not?

You can't. You could as well believe that god created us because he is sadist who enjoys to kill and torture us. And only way to escape from his evil is to deny his existence. Why not?

Again this is easy.
We know how the Bible was written. Parts of the Bible gives the world directly from the mouth of Jesus, how could the son of God who lived and died for us be wrong?

Any part of the Bible in contradiction with His son is wrong and shouldn't be considered as sacred  

"You could as well believe that god created us because he is sadist who enjoys to kill and torture us."
Maybe. Why not?

Exactly, it is as realistic to believe that so why don't you deny his existence to be saved from heaven, where you will be tortured by god forever.

"how could the son of God who lived and died for us be wrong?"

If I kill my self and say I do it to give you change to deny his existence and escape from his eternal torturing, then you will blindly believe me?
Or would you just think I am suicidal carzy person? Maybe if I write good book about it?

[valta4065]

An important thing to remember is that the Bible is a collection of books, written by different people in different times addressing different needs of that time period.
I, personally think that if you are and want to be a good person, then you choose the good parts and leave the ones that are not good, or not useful for our modern age aside.

Why can you believe some parts of bible but not all?
How can you possibly know what in bible is true and what not?

You can't. You could as well believe that god created us because he is sadist who enjoys to kill and torture us. And only way to escape from his evil is to deny his existence. Why not?

Again this is easy.
We know how the Bible was written. Parts of the Bible gives the world directly from the mouth of Jesus, how could the son of God who lived and died for us be wrong?

Any part of the Bible in contradiction with His son is wrong and shouldn't be considered as sacred  

"You could as well believe that god created us because he is sadist who enjoys to kill and torture us."
Maybe. Why not?

Exactly, it is as realistic to believe that so why don't you deny his existence to be saved from heaven, where you will be tortured by god forever.

"how could the son of God who lived and died for us be wrong?"

If I kill my self and say I do it to give you change to deny his existence and escape from his eternal torturing, then you will blindly believe me?
Or would you just think I am suicidal carzy person? Maybe if I write good book about it?

Oh! I see what you're trying to do. You're trying to explain I can't prove that the Bible is right and that Jesus is the son of god and all that no?

Well don't waste your time, of course I can't xD

Again it's only a question of faith, and that's why atheists have every right to be so. If you don't have faith then you might consider all of this is just crazy shit. But if you have had the chance to find the Lord, then you KNOW that it's right ^^

But i'm not judging you or trying to convince you. i wouldn't even try to prove God exists, that would be ridiculous. If there was such a proof, there would be no faith.

[eon89]

What I am saying isn't that I believe the bible or not. It's just that some things make sense: like not killing people. This is a single example, that should be valid for believers and non believers as well. Christians or not.