DeathAndTaxes
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Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
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August 30, 2013, 05:49:51 PM |
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why KNC can't show us the chip to double their sales and calm this almost 400 pages thread? Because they don't have the chips. They have never indicated they received the chips and chip delivery is going to be newsworthy. In KNC defense they have massively over-engineered the boards from a power and cooling standpoint. The largest unknown is going to be actual TDP and with the boards they showed they have a lot of flexibility. Assuming the have sufficient cases, fans, and heatsinks on hand and at least the initial weeks worth of boards are already assembled (minus the ASIC) in theory they could get 48 hour turnaround on completed boards. Have partially assembled boards at assembly house and drop ship them enough chips. Once they hand assemble a couple of test prototypes assuming no problems have the assembly house do a rapid run and overnight delivery. The subsequent weeks can be done at a slower pace in a single run. I think BFL has created some unrealistic expectations but you have to remember they are incompetent. This isn't an endorsement just an observation. I don't want to ask for refund, start flame or bitching KNC crew here, but some REAL explanation about progress will be really nice. Statement "we are still on track for our delivery towards the end of September" is not enough for thousands dollars orders when we have got end of August [/quote] |
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Phoenix1969
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
LIR DEV
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August 30, 2013, 05:50:52 PM |
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 30% performance increase?, Hmmm |
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rizzman
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August 30, 2013, 06:12:47 PM
Last edit: August 30, 2013, 07:01:28 PM by rizzman |
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i think that all here in these forum members.
helps companies like
knc bfl labs
to start their bussiness.
i mean now bfl labs no need our money
also knc also
so knc does not worries if we have or not have roi
they have our money at start when they need it
so
they will have enough asics chips untill end of these year
SO NEVER
BUT NEVER
HELP AGAIN
ANY COMPANY
TO START BUSINESS WITH OUR MONEY
Dude, wtf are you talking about? your speaking as if KNC has already burned you... They still have through September to get the goods out, not a big deal. What this comes down to is people like you complaining simply because they're not gonna see the $100,000 cash-out that the calculators were predicting back in June. Reality is that those who actually have orders still have the foresight to know that A. The Fucking genesisblock, IS NOT the all seeing oracle of bitcoin and the exponential growth that it is predicting is not realistic but a hyper pessimistic estimate of what worst case we should expect and B. that they're is already competition that is folding (Atleast for the short-term) as well as others which will fail to deliver in the time between now and the end of the year. Proof: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3035535#msg3035535Look what happened in the BFL / Avalon race... the gee-wiz, established FPGA builders BFL got trumped by the new kid on the block Avalon who's early adopters were able to mine a shitload of coin then turn around and dump the machine for well over $50,000. There was an ungodly amount of FUD thrown at Avalon at the time and look where all the BFL naysayers are now... The point is nobody knows wtf is going to happen in the next 60 days, the only thing that is certain is that nothing risked, nothing earned. Now to be fair, I understand the ultra realist "show me the money" point your trying to make, but really... Anyone with a substantial investment into this has already done their risk-assessment analysis and has ether decided to ride it out, or has already requested a refund. If you still wanna continue spewing FUD, go ahead, only makes the ROI that much easier for us who are dug in for the long view with every sheep you steer away from KNC, but know that you are just ruining your credibility until KNC misses the deadline. |
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DPoS
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August 30, 2013, 06:37:37 PM |
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Remember there are some freaked out wacked jobs here.. they probably mumble about how IBM stole their patents while wondering around parking lots
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Ytterbium
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August 30, 2013, 06:54:01 PM |
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bitfury chips already hashing at 0.8W/Gh with 55nm chip (which exist months and whole progress is documented), and KNC have non existing 28nm chip with predicted twice power consumption. (just facts, nothing else)
why KNC can't show us the chip to double their sales and calm this almost 400 pages thread? Honestly, I'm not hardware designer or software engineer, but I'm not sure, if they are able to do all steps around and start shipping complete working units until 3 weeks.
I don't want to ask for refund, start flame or bitching KNC crew here, but some REAL explanation about progress will be really nice. Statement "we are still on track for our delivery towards the end of September" is not enough for thousands dollars orders when we have got end of August
If they had the chips, they would be shipping. Why would you expect KnC to get the chips, then just sit on their ass for a month doing nothing? They will begin shipping as soon as they have the chips. Why is that so hard for people to understand? |
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crumbs
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August 30, 2013, 07:00:22 PM |
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If they had the chips, they would be shipping.
Why would you expect KnC to get the chips, then just sit on their ass for a month doing nothing? They will begin shipping as soon as they have the chips. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
Because BFL started shipping as soon as they got the chips, derp? |
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Xialla
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
/dev/null
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August 30, 2013, 07:02:40 PM |
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...
If they had the chips, they would be shipping.
Why would you expect KnC to get the chips, then just sit on their ass for a month doing nothing? They will begin shipping as soon as they have the chips. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
Because BFL started shipping as soon as they got the chips, derp? yes, exactly.) |
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rizzman
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August 30, 2013, 07:13:25 PM |
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If they had the chips, they would be shipping.
Why would you expect KnC to get the chips, then just sit on their ass for a month doing nothing? They will begin shipping as soon as they have the chips. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
Because BFL started shipping as soon as they got the chips, derp? Bullshit, BLF started realizing that their chips were nowhere's near their promised efficiency levels as soon as they got the chips. and at some point the "Two more weeks" broken record response got dropped at which point, everyone finally found out that they had reorder all the cases / heatsinks/ powersupplies to deal address their poor planning and overly optimistic calculation... It doesn't take a brain surgeon for anyone to learn from this mistake and it definitely isn't confidential knowledge. and I would bet good money that KNC ether A. Has the chips but is tweaking / testing quietly and wants to make absolutely sure none of these things come back for some BS problem that could have been fixed with alittle debugging or B. does not have it yet and is simply over-engineering the hell outta the components to ensure that the ancillary components don't need to be trashed if the initial parameters are off. Ether way, BFL most definitely DID NOT start shipping as soon as they got the chips, if anything they were sitting on them awaiting boards/etc because of the Screwup -The fact that you are even comparing the two is retarded. |
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Ytterbium
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August 30, 2013, 07:18:29 PM |
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If they had the chips, they would be shipping.
Why would you expect KnC to get the chips, then just sit on their ass for a month doing nothing? They will begin shipping as soon as they have the chips. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
Because BFL started shipping as soon as they got the chips, derp? yes, exactly.) If you think KnC is the next BFL, then you should request a refund immediately. BFL had chips for half a year year before they started shipping. Is that what you want KnC to do? |
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bbxx
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August 30, 2013, 07:20:22 PM |
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If they had the chips, they would be shipping.
Why would you expect KnC to get the chips, then just sit on their ass for a month doing nothing? They will begin shipping as soon as they have the chips. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
Because BFL started shipping as soon as they got the chips, derp? Bullshit, BLF started realizing that their chips were nowhere's near their promised efficiency levels as soon as they got the chips. and at some point the "Two more weeks" broken record response got dropped at which point, everyone finally found out that they had reorder all the cases / heatsinks/ powersupplies to deal address their poor planning and overly optimistic calculation... It doesn't take a brain surgeon for anyone to learn from this mistake and it definitely isn't confidential knowledge. and I would bet good money that KNC ether A. Has the chips but is tweaking / testing quietly and wants to make absolutely sure none of these things come back for some BS problem that could have been fixed with alittle debugging or B. does not have it yet and is simply over-engineering the hell outta the components to ensure that the ancillary components don't need to be trashed if the initial parameters are off. Ether way, BFL most definitely DID NOT start shipping as soon as they got the chips, if anything they were sitting on them awaiting boards/etc because of the Screwup -The fact that you are even comparing the two is retarded. Only one mistake in process and knc is late. |
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MrHempstock
Full Member
Offline
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
"Don't worry. My career died after Batman, too."
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August 30, 2013, 07:24:21 PM |
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Lol @ Ytterbium.
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BTCitcointalk 1%ers manipulate the currency and deceive its user community.
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crumbs
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August 30, 2013, 07:27:58 PM |
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...
If they had the chips, they would be shipping.
Why would you expect KnC to get the chips, then just sit on their ass for a month doing nothing? They will begin shipping as soon as they have the chips. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
Because BFL started shipping as soon as they got the chips, derp? Bullshit, BLF started realizing that their chips were nowhere's near their promised efficiency levels as soon as they got the chips. and at some point the "Two more weeks" broken record response got dropped at which point, everyone finally found out that they had reorder all the cases / heatsinks/ powersupplies to deal address their poor planning and overly optimistic calculation... It doesn't take a brain surgeon for anyone to learn from this mistake and it definitely isn't confidential knowledge. and I would bet good money that KNC ether A. Has the chips but is tweaking / testing quietly and wants to make absolutely sure none of these things come back for some BS problem that could have been fixed with alittle debugging or B. does not have it yet and is simply over-engineering the hell outta the components to ensure that the ancillary components don't need to be trashed if the initial parameters are off. Ether way, BFL most definitely DID NOT start shipping as soon as they got the chips, if anything they were sitting on them awaiting boards/etc because of the Screwup -The fact that you are even comparing the two is retarded. So. You don't get sarcasm. No biggie. But tell me, do you think all the big kids are just wasting time with with sample runs? Now that KNC has learned from BFL's mistakes, do you suppose they'll even bother testing the boards before shipping? It's in the bag, amirite? |
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rizzman
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August 30, 2013, 07:45:28 PM |
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If they had the chips, they would be shipping.
Why would you expect KnC to get the chips, then just sit on their ass for a month doing nothing? They will begin shipping as soon as they have the chips. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
Because BFL started shipping as soon as they got the chips, derp? Bullshit, BLF started realizing that their chips were nowhere's near their promised efficiency levels as soon as they got the chips. and at some point the "Two more weeks" broken record response got dropped at which point, everyone finally found out that they had reorder all the cases / heatsinks/ powersupplies to deal address their poor planning and overly optimistic calculation... It doesn't take a brain surgeon for anyone to learn from this mistake and it definitely isn't confidential knowledge. and I would bet good money that KNC ether A. Has the chips but is tweaking / testing quietly and wants to make absolutely sure none of these things come back for some BS problem that could have been fixed with alittle debugging or B. does not have it yet and is simply over-engineering the hell outta the components to ensure that the ancillary components don't need to be trashed if the initial parameters are off. Ether way, BFL most definitely DID NOT start shipping as soon as they got the chips, if anything they were sitting on them awaiting boards/etc because of the Screwup -The fact that you are even comparing the two is retarded. So. You don't get sarcasm. No biggie. But tell me, do you think all the big kids are just wasting time with with sample runs? Now that KNC has learned from BFL's mistakes, do you suppose they'll even bother testing the boards before shipping? It's in the bag, amirite? Sorry, guess sarcasm don't come through very clear over the internets  I doubt anyone is wasting time with sample runs at this point, the fact that difficulty is skyrocketing, it would almost be financial suicide to do so, At this point, the only valid concern that I see is what happens if they get it wrong (with the chip design). To be honest, this is the biggest concern I have with KNC, considering they went straight for what essentially is a rocket run on the chip (Correct me if I missed something here). We all have to cross our fingers that the chips don't end up paperweights. As for the testing of the boards, I would have to imagine they definitely will have to test the boards to ensure that they aren't sending out Uber Mega sized paperweights, hence the FPGA in the board pictures they released. As for whether its in the bag or not... I don't know, however they have done a damn fine job so far in trying to cover as many shortfalls as possible, and that speaks alot in my opinion. Thus, I'll withhold judgement until then end of September for that one. |
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jmw74
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August 30, 2013, 07:53:08 PM |
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If they had the chips, they would be shipping.
Why would you expect KnC to get the chips, then just sit on their ass for a month doing nothing? They will begin shipping as soon as they have the chips. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
Because BFL started shipping as soon as they got the chips, derp? Bullshit, BLF started realizing that their chips were nowhere's near their promised efficiency levels as soon as they got the chips. and at some point the "Two more weeks" broken record response got dropped at which point, everyone finally found out that they had reorder all the cases / heatsinks/ powersupplies to deal address their poor planning and overly optimistic calculation... It doesn't take a brain surgeon for anyone to learn from this mistake and it definitely isn't confidential knowledge. and I would bet good money that KNC ether A. Has the chips but is tweaking / testing quietly and wants to make absolutely sure none of these things come back for some BS problem that could have been fixed with alittle debugging or B. does not have it yet and is simply over-engineering the hell outta the components to ensure that the ancillary components don't need to be trashed if the initial parameters are off. Ether way, BFL most definitely DID NOT start shipping as soon as they got the chips, if anything they were sitting on them awaiting boards/etc because of the Screwup -The fact that you are even comparing the two is retarded. So. You don't get sarcasm. No biggie. But tell me, do you think all the big kids are just wasting time with with sample runs? Now that KNC has learned from BFL's mistakes, do you suppose they'll even bother testing the boards before shipping? It's in the bag, amirite? Yep, this does not bode well. I'm a software guy but the principle is the same. You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later. If it works, it's a fucking miracle. This is why you test things. KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems. That's assuming they don't already have the chips. I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did. |
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Ytterbium
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August 30, 2013, 07:56:26 PM |
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Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.
- Albert Einstein on seeing KNC's design approach
There should be a moderator. I will ask teymos, maybe i will clean up there. Useless posts, huge fonts, images and irrelevant videos. Because your comments are sooo useful. |
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DPoS
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August 30, 2013, 08:03:44 PM |
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Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.
- Albert Einstein on seeing KNC's design approach
There should be a moderator. I will ask teymos, maybe i will clean up there. Useless posts, huge fonts, images and irrelevant videos. Because your comments are sooo useful. got deleted.. there seems to be a bias vs certain pro-comments on this forum and also a few trolls have moderator friends since as you know this thread is rife with anti-knc bullshit everywhere and never gets deleted |
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ASIC-K
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Hell?
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August 30, 2013, 08:05:50 PM |
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Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.
- Albert Einstein on seeing KNC's design approach
There should be a moderator. I will ask teymos, maybe i will clean up there. Useless posts, huge fonts, images and irrelevant videos. Because your comments are sooo useful. got deleted.. there seems to be a bias vs certain pro-comments on this forum and also a few trolls have moderator friends since as you know this thread is rife with anti-knc bullshit everywhere and never gets deleted ditto, got deleted too. didnt think anything i said was even bad either. oh well. |
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DPoS
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August 30, 2013, 08:09:52 PM |
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Yup..
I was actually using that quote to compare KNC to BFL in that BLF waited until they tripped until they figured things out while KNC is paving their road for no issues.. but that seems to be lost on the low moronic IQ of these trolls, or probably hit to close to the truth for them to bear
QQ trolls... just cry
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Ytterbium
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August 30, 2013, 08:11:37 PM |
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I'm a software guy but the principle is the same. You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later. If it works, it's a fucking miracle. This is why you test things.
KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.
That's assuming they don't already have the chips. I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.
I'm a software guy. You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place. One way to do it is to have a well defined interface and a simplified reference (or 'mock') implementation of that interface that you can use to test against while working on the other - in KnC's case they have an FPGA implementation that has the same interface as their chip, so they can test their board/cooling/etc. And of course they can simulate their chips, and full circuits, to ensure they work as well. Software world is full of people who don't know what they're doing. It's not a 'miracle' if software works properly the first time without much debugging, it just means it was done properly and carefully to begin with. |
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crumbs
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August 30, 2013, 08:27:49 PM |
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I'm a software guy but the principle is the same. You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later. If it works, it's a fucking miracle. This is why you test things.
KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.
That's assuming they don't already have the chips. I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.
I'm a software guy. You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place. ... And that's why hacks like Microsoft just roll out new Windows versions without betas and previews. You got a point there, champ... Edit: Flash*flash*flash* OMG SARCASM TAG!!11! |
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