Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Bitcoinorama]

As I said months ago Marcus would have played with that thing and delayed it's release to perfection. Sam and Andreas understood for you have to have that device hashing in your hands asap. You got it, unrefined, but as refined as they have had it themselves, shipment began that same week. Issues are dealt with as they arise, and the majority are over the moon.

I let you off for a while, but you still haven't come clean and act like it never happened.

BUT...  you say it 'wasn't refined' but then WHY did they pull out 4 VRMs before they either bothered to test them, or knew and just shipped anyway??

Why not wait till they had proper firmware (.95) to at least handle the power issues over spec before stripping the boards?

I agree to let a lot of the other nonsense slide (what happened to next shipping? no ship on sat??? what??) but to act like a big 'fuck them till we fix it' decision wasn't made is LYING

so just own up to it

Act like what never happened?  I'm not playing dumb, I'm flat out exhausted, ref. above, really.

The 8 VRMS were a margin in the beginning. You obviously reduce margins as and when you are confident they are unnecessary. At that point in time they may well be usable in fixing products if further problems arise and excessive replacements would have been needed.

As I said the best analogy is it's about having a family of components that have never met in person and will likely disagree behave with one another. You try to over compensate to appease. Those with 8 VRMS have 4 that are turned off. It's pointless to continue shipping components on a board that aren't being used. In future, boards may well have 8, the physical space is there, and options still exist, but the compatibility has to also be present, and refining that compatibility is what consumer device manufacturers have the luxury of 12-18 months for, and we didn't. Bitcoin does not grant you that currently. There is no room for failure, or forgiveness. Not in the race that's just taken place. You cannot afford a major design mistake, you're finished.

That's another six months if you have to rewrite RTL from scratch, 12 weeks if you need to reorder new parts.

It wasn't fuck them till we fix it, it was more we've fucking promised this, and we will damn well fix it. For the most part it's always been about firmware, but no one wanted to believe that. I'll be honest I had my fingers and toes crossed there, but I didn't design the hardware, and they overcompensated for the reason hardware could handle it, firmware could fix it.

I will never forget how white Andreas turned at one point in the manufacturing facility on the day of the delivery for a schoolboy error. F-ing classic. At the time it was full on brown trouser, no laughing matter, but the colour just drained in seconds for something so simple, so looking back it's hilarious.

[DPoS]

how do you completely forget about the proof that 4 VRM boards were COOKING well above 40 amps with pre 95 firmware while the boards with 8 VRMs were not running amps over spec?

you still act like they were just totally dormant 4 VRMs removed when the design with 8 VRMs handled the power in spec with pre 95 firmware and the 4 VRM firmware didn't

so until they had it under spec with firmware 95, they WERE needed

that is what you keep trying to push under the rug in all your responses to this

[Meizirkki]

Man, I hate this BTCUSD rally, noobs will throw fiat at miners like there is no tomorrow driving difficulty crazy high.

I don't think the plateau is anywhere near. My only hope is that Orama has insider info, so he probably knows that KnC won't deliver +1,000TH/s in November. But a lot of new miners are coming online for sure, and I'm sure Bitfury is going to deploy a shitload of hashrate given the fact that BTC/USD is going crazy.

It's only good for Bitcoin to have more and more miners

[RoadStress]

how do you completely forget about the proof that 4 VRM boards were COOKING well above 40 amps with pre 95 firmware while the boards with 8 VRMs were not running amps over spec?

you still act like they were just totally dormant 4 VRMs removed when the design with 8 VRMs handled the power in spec with pre 95 firmware and the 4 VRM firmware didn't

so until they had it under spec with firmware 95, they WERE needed

that is what you keep trying to push under the rug in all your responses to this

Well good thing GE makes their shit good and the VRMs didn't catch on fire and even if there was a real danger there it seems like nothing went so horribly wrong as you would expect. 4 VRM boards lived enough until post 0.95 firmware.

[Mota]

No, this is not a consumer device, neither is it consumer friendly

Let me quote some things for you:

Our complete services for Bitcoin mining make it easy and cost efficient to mine Bitcoins. Smart solutions for everyone who wants to mine for Bitcoins.

>>First sentence when you google KNC

Das riesige Gerät 576Gh/s-KnCMiner Jupiter ist der mächtigste Bitcoin-Miner, der jemals gebaut wurde. Es ist eine Maschine, die für jedermann zum Kauf zur Verfügung steht.
Die Tatsache, dass die Öffentlichkeit die Plug-and-Play-Geräte erwerben und betreiben kann,...

>> official German press release, feel free to google translate.
 That took me 2 minutes, there are way more news out there, even audio files of them statiing everyone can buy their miner. Plug and Play is also stated here.

KNC has voided their own terms of servie with their official statements, and now you want to come up with it's not a cosnumer device and not consumer friendly?

Let me translate the above for you:   "It's a machine anyone can buy. The fact that the public can buy and use those plug and play devices..."

Do you have anything to add to your statement?

[FUKT]

Technically Bargraphics and I had problems. I had 1 defective chip, replaced by RMA (took 1 week, due the RMA policy that I don't care for). Both Bar and I have had problems with the hosted service in the beginning and I had a failed miner which eventually got replaced.

You don't count since you fixed your problems. I had one defective board at start too. Did RMA, got it fixed in 5 days total.

COUNTING PEOPLE WITH FAULTY UNITS/PROBLEMS:
1) retard The Avenger
2) CYPHER
3) FUKT
4) timmmers?
5) Puppet
6) ...*please continue the list*

6) Bargraphics
7) Mota
All the people posting on the KNC support subforum

Bar doesn't count. He HAD problems and got them fixed. As for you i don't know. Do you still have problems?

So we are stuck at 5 people with problems right now?

Hmm, odd. I've always said I was lucky to have a perfect rig. Ran at max from day 1 apart from firmware updates which all worked and improved it slightly.

The fact that I'd never have known about the updates or anything else if it were left to KNC to tell me...which they haven't bothered to since they got my money....pissed me off though. The fact that they were over a week past their promised and oft confirmed delivery date which cost me hashing time and the fact that others were much worse treated by these people needs to be out there.
They are not the messiahs, they are very naughty boys.

If BTC was now at the price it was back when we ordered it would be a disaster for most people. Not as bad as BFL since they actually did produce the 1st rig on time and ship them all...but ignoring customers and lying to them isn't great is it? How the fuck I got an email telling me my rig was ready to be picked up in Stockholm a few days ago is beyond me..but it shows they haven't a clue at the very least.

People seeing the fairytale in the media could easily be walking into a dream of KNC being th wonderful competent company they imagine they are ..and if I were in that situation I'd like to see the truth, not some bullshit that would take my money and leave me disappointed.

They haven't the time to communicate on forums. even their own. According to Orama. I am eating my supper now, I can manage it. Ten minutes a day would be easy for them. Truth is they can't be bothered or they have nothing to say. Got your money..fuck off there's a good chap. See you when we want to sell you another rig.

No, this is not a consumer device, neither is it consumer friendly, they are however incredibly busy constantly trying to tweak it and improve it, which is obvious as there is a reason atypical 28nm devices take 12-18 months post fab to refine. This is the fastest 28nm device ever created. The surrounding components are like a family that doesn't get on with eachother, but have to meet a new family member for the first time and keep up appearances. They've picked the strongest personalities capable of managing this and placed them in a room together, but really and truly they've never met the ASIC before. Will you wait 12-18 months for a device to be ready? For a company's customer service to be prepped on it inside out?

No, this is Bitcoin you all want the tech now.

If you want a consumer device like an Apple iPhone, then understand Apple have both the iPhone 6 and likely the IPhone 7 in hand are tweaking it to perfection for release. KnC haven't had the luxury of that time. you've had the damn thing for a couple of weeks less than they have, and we're all finding out what works, and what doesn't as an iterative process. The company is actually full of the most solid work ethic i've seen it's half 8 on a Friday evening and the software engineers, myself and most others are still here. No one has relaxed, sure the pressure and burden to some extent is off, but no one has the attitude of "Got your money..fuck off there's a good chap". You're just making crap up you want to believe. Really.

As I said months ago Marcus would have played with that thing and delayed it's release to perfection. Sam and Andreas understood for you have to have that device hashing in your hands asap. You got it, unrefined, but as refined as they have had it themselves, shipment began that same week. Issues are dealt with as they arise, and the majority are over the moon.

This makes me feel so much better, late deliveries and constant failures have cost me about 26btc. KNC's late and tardy delivery have cost buyers close to 20mill in lost USD, but at least it was in record time!

[Sitarow]

how do you completely forget about the proof that 4 VRM boards were COOKING well above 40 amps with pre 95 firmware while the boards with 8 VRMs were not running amps over spec?

you still act like they were just totally dormant 4 VRMs removed when the design with 8 VRMs handled the power in spec with pre 95 firmware and the 4 VRM firmware didn't

so until they had it under spec with firmware 95, they WERE needed

that is what you keep trying to push under the rug in all your responses to this

The problem that persists with any time sensitive tech is should we make it perfect or ship it to the people and update it as we go.

The community is well aware what happens when you try to make it perfect, with some vendors delivering 14 months late.

Even Bitfury systems were not Perfect. One good thing Punin / Dave did was send extra GH/s to make up for it.

I know what it means to pull 9 day work weeks. 16 hour + work days wears down common sense, my only gripe was that I had to step in for KnC's customer support. I could only guess how many mixups they had on day 1 orders.

My concern stemmed from the lack of recourse a colleague who had lost 42 BTC due to an admitted queue mix up on the part of KnC and had his orders pushed back well beyond day 2 orders.

Everyone expects compensation. The reality is that those who had day 1 orders. They expected to receive their units mid September 2013. So I can understand those who are not thrilled of the delays. Perhaps the customers expectations were unrealistic. However KnC have made it up for some.

tl;dr sure Sam and his team had issues but in the end they delivered as well as any one would hope to expect.

[DPoS]

Well good thing GE makes their shit good and the VRMs didn't catch on fire and even if there was a real danger there it seems like nothing went so horribly wrong as you would expect. 4 VRM boards lived enough until post 0.95 firmware.

I agree.. I lost one die from it all, but mostly they survived.  But you know that was not my point in bringing it up.  It is that certain people are acting like there was no problem removing them (no effect at all as he says) and then wondering why everyone was blowing fans on over spec VRMs

[spiccioli]

Man, I hate this BTCUSD rally, noobs will throw fiat at miners like there is no tomorrow driving difficulty crazy high.

I don't think the plateau is anywhere near. My only hope is that Orama has insider info, so he probably knows that KnC won't deliver +1,000TH/s in November. But a lot of new miners are coming online for sure, and I'm sure Bitfury is going to deploy a shitload of hashrate given the fact that BTC/USD is going crazy.

The real problem will be all those that increase their mining operation without selling a single unit: Bitfury, 200 THs or whatever it is right now, Avalon team said today they are going to be able to deliver 2 PH of chips monthly, BitMine.ch has a 4 PH private mining operation to build plus whatever they will ship, BlackArrow has 2TH/s units going online at the end of february next year, HashFast will deliver, sooner or later, and so on.

So, the fact that difficulty is lower this or next difficulty jump does not mean we're reaching plateau.

spiccioli

[Bitcoinorama]

how do you completely forget about the proof that 4 VRM boards were COOKING well above 40 amps with pre 95 firmware while the boards with 8 VRMs were not running amps over spec?

you still act like they were just totally dormant 4 VRMs removed when the design with 8 VRMs handled the power in spec with pre 95 firmware and the 4 VRM firmware didn't

so until they had it under spec with firmware 95, they WERE needed

that is what you keep trying to push under the rug in all your responses to this

They were needed originally, but they were an necessary margin as they weren't needed to power the device to spec? I'm not pushing anything under the rug.

Dude i'm not a software engineer, I have not designed the hardware. I personally haven't hashed a machine fully before .95. You can follow the link in my sig and see my hashing as i've played with rigs.

I have seen so many revisions of software and hardware, including a hell of a lot that won't be seeing the light of day in public. So I do not have the intimate knowledge of each particular revision like yourself who has had longer to play on each, or the software engineers that have written and redesigned the firmware, or those making the hardware decisions. You are expecting me to be an expert on others decisions. The hardware i'm playing with next to me doesn't have 8 vrms. I personally haven't played with those. I've remove, tested, and replaced some when working through some RMAs, sure.

Honestly most of this has been a insomniac, food deprived, stressful emotional blur moving at light speed for me. Right now I'm staring at a screen exhausted at almost 10pm on a Friday night having Q's I do not know the technical nitty gritty to fired at me. I was in meetings at 9am. I'm taking the time to answer you out of free will, not so I can spin a web of deceit. That's not some flakey BS, but no one is using 8 VRMS currently to obtain spec with current firmware. They are not necessary.

[Bitcoinorama]

Technically Bargraphics and I had problems. I had 1 defective chip, replaced by RMA (took 1 week, due the RMA policy that I don't care for). Both Bar and I have had problems with the hosted service in the beginning and I had a failed miner which eventually got replaced.

You don't count since you fixed your problems. I had one defective board at start too. Did RMA, got it fixed in 5 days total.

COUNTING PEOPLE WITH FAULTY UNITS/PROBLEMS:
1) retard The Avenger
2) CYPHER
3) FUKT
4) timmmers?
5) Puppet
6) ...*please continue the list*

6) Bargraphics
7) Mota
All the people posting on the KNC support subforum

Bar doesn't count. He HAD problems and got them fixed. As for you i don't know. Do you still have problems?

So we are stuck at 5 people with problems right now?

Hmm, odd. I've always said I was lucky to have a perfect rig. Ran at max from day 1 apart from firmware updates which all worked and improved it slightly.

The fact that I'd never have known about the updates or anything else if it were left to KNC to tell me...which they haven't bothered to since they got my money....pissed me off though. The fact that they were over a week past their promised and oft confirmed delivery date which cost me hashing time and the fact that others were much worse treated by these people needs to be out there.
They are not the messiahs, they are very naughty boys.

If BTC was now at the price it was back when we ordered it would be a disaster for most people. Not as bad as BFL since they actually did produce the 1st rig on time and ship them all...but ignoring customers and lying to them isn't great is it? How the fuck I got an email telling me my rig was ready to be picked up in Stockholm a few days ago is beyond me..but it shows they haven't a clue at the very least.

People seeing the fairytale in the media could easily be walking into a dream of KNC being th wonderful competent company they imagine they are ..and if I were in that situation I'd like to see the truth, not some bullshit that would take my money and leave me disappointed.

They haven't the time to communicate on forums. even their own. According to Orama. I am eating my supper now, I can manage it. Ten minutes a day would be easy for them. Truth is they can't be bothered or they have nothing to say. Got your money..fuck off there's a good chap. See you when we want to sell you another rig.

No, this is not a consumer device, neither is it consumer friendly, they are however incredibly busy constantly trying to tweak it and improve it, which is obvious as there is a reason atypical 28nm devices take 12-18 months post fab to refine. This is the fastest 28nm device ever created. The surrounding components are like a family that doesn't get on with eachother, but have to meet a new family member for the first time and keep up appearances. They've picked the strongest personalities capable of managing this and placed them in a room together, but really and truly they've never met the ASIC before. Will you wait 12-18 months for a device to be ready? For a company's customer service to be prepped on it inside out?

No, this is Bitcoin you all want the tech now.

If you want a consumer device like an Apple iPhone, then understand Apple have both the iPhone 6 and likely the IPhone 7 in hand are tweaking it to perfection for release. KnC haven't had the luxury of that time. you've had the damn thing for a couple of weeks less than they have, and we're all finding out what works, and what doesn't as an iterative process. The company is actually full of the most solid work ethic i've seen it's half 8 on a Friday evening and the software engineers, myself and most others are still here. No one has relaxed, sure the pressure and burden to some extent is off, but no one has the attitude of "Got your money..fuck off there's a good chap". You're just making crap up you want to believe. Really.

As I said months ago Marcus would have played with that thing and delayed it's release to perfection. Sam and Andreas understood for you have to have that device hashing in your hands asap. You got it, unrefined, but as refined as they have had it themselves, shipment began that same week. Issues are dealt with as they arise, and the majority are over the moon.

This makes me feel so much better, late deliveries and constant failures have cost me about 26btc. KNC's late and tardy delivery have cost buyers close to 20mill in lost USD, but at least it was in record time!

Cool, glad you're happy. If Avalon had delivered it may have cost you more.

[DPoS]

The problem that persists with any time sensitive tech is should we make it perfect or ship it to the people and update it as we go.

not sure why everyone is missing my point.  They did have a working miner and shipped X number of miners with 8 VRMs.   So before they go cutting costs they should just test and make sure they aren't frying their product right?

What is everyone's point on 'time sensitive tech' etc. when the reason was they wanted to slash costs before they tested a stripped board?

just own up to that decision KNC

[DPoS]

how do you completely forget about the proof that 4 VRM boards were COOKING well above 40 amps with pre 95 firmware while the boards with 8 VRMs were not running amps over spec?

you still act like they were just totally dormant 4 VRMs removed when the design with 8 VRMs handled the power in spec with pre 95 firmware and the 4 VRM firmware didn't

so until they had it under spec with firmware 95, they WERE needed

that is what you keep trying to push under the rug in all your responses to this

They were needed originally, but they were an necessary margin as they weren't needed to power the device to spec? I'm not pushing anything under the rug.

Dude i'm not a software engineer, I have not designed the hardware. I personally haven't hashed a machine fully before .95. You can follow the link in my sig and see my hashing as i've played with rigs.

I have seen so many revisions of software and hardware, including a hell of a lot that won't be seeing the light of day in public. So I do not have the intimate knowledge of each particular revision like yourself who has had longer to play on each, or the software engineers that have written and redesigned the firmware, or those making the hardware decisions. You are expecting me to be an expert on others decisions. The hardware i'm playing with next to me doesn't have 8 vrms. I personally haven't played with those. I've remove, tested, and replaced some when working through some RMAs, sure.

Honestly most of this has been a insomniac, food deprived, stressful emotional blur moving at light speed for me. Right now I'm staring at a screen exhausted at almost 10pm on a Friday night having Q's I do not know the technical nitty gritty to fired at me. I was in meetings at 9am. I'm taking the time to answer you out of free will, not so I can spin a web of deceit. That's not som flaky BS, but no one is using 8 VRMS currently to obtain spec with current firmware. They are not necessary.

remember this??   isn't there a 40 amp spec limit on them?  correct??   #3 below has 8 VRMs and looks fine,  the others pretty baked.  So stop saying they werent needed..   perhaps not to power the chip but to regulate the power, yes

[Sitarow]

The problem that persists with any time sensitive tech is should we make it perfect or ship it to the people and update it as we go.

not sure why everyone is missing my point.  They did have a working miner and shipped X number of miners with 8 VRMs.   So before they go cutting costs they should just test and make sure they aren't frying their product right?

What is everyone's point on 'time sensitive tech' etc. when the reason was they wanted to slash costs before they tested a stripped board?

just own up to that decision KNC

I can't comment for KnC. However from what I recall from one KnC news post. The original designed boards had 8 vrms and in the article they had a comment that it would play a key role on 2nd gen design chips.

However they may have had a set amount of those boards made. And before the tested chips arrived may have commissioned the new asic boards and control units with less components. Perhaps a cost saving measure.

[Mota]

It's not nice to ignore people who answer your posts with facts bitcoinorama.

[FUKT]

Technically Bargraphics and I had problems. I had 1 defective chip, replaced by RMA (took 1 week, due the RMA policy that I don't care for). Both Bar and I have had problems with the hosted service in the beginning and I had a failed miner which eventually got replaced.

You don't count since you fixed your problems. I had one defective board at start too. Did RMA, got it fixed in 5 days total.

COUNTING PEOPLE WITH FAULTY UNITS/PROBLEMS:
1) retard The Avenger
2) CYPHER
3) FUKT
4) timmmers?
5) Puppet
6) ...*please continue the list*

6) Bargraphics
7) Mota
All the people posting on the KNC support subforum

Bar doesn't count. He HAD problems and got them fixed. As for you i don't know. Do you still have problems?

So we are stuck at 5 people with problems right now?

Hmm, odd. I've always said I was lucky to have a perfect rig. Ran at max from day 1 apart from firmware updates which all worked and improved it slightly.

The fact that I'd never have known about the updates or anything else if it were left to KNC to tell me...which they haven't bothered to since they got my money....pissed me off though. The fact that they were over a week past their promised and oft confirmed delivery date which cost me hashing time and the fact that others were much worse treated by these people needs to be out there.
They are not the messiahs, they are very naughty boys.

If BTC was now at the price it was back when we ordered it would be a disaster for most people. Not as bad as BFL since they actually did produce the 1st rig on time and ship them all...but ignoring customers and lying to them isn't great is it? How the fuck I got an email telling me my rig was ready to be picked up in Stockholm a few days ago is beyond me..but it shows they haven't a clue at the very least.

People seeing the fairytale in the media could easily be walking into a dream of KNC being th wonderful competent company they imagine they are ..and if I were in that situation I'd like to see the truth, not some bullshit that would take my money and leave me disappointed.

They haven't the time to communicate on forums. even their own. According to Orama. I am eating my supper now, I can manage it. Ten minutes a day would be easy for them. Truth is they can't be bothered or they have nothing to say. Got your money..fuck off there's a good chap. See you when we want to sell you another rig.

No, this is not a consumer device, neither is it consumer friendly, they are however incredibly busy constantly trying to tweak it and improve it, which is obvious as there is a reason atypical 28nm devices take 12-18 months post fab to refine. This is the fastest 28nm device ever created. The surrounding components are like a family that doesn't get on with eachother, but have to meet a new family member for the first time and keep up appearances. They've picked the strongest personalities capable of managing this and placed them in a room together, but really and truly they've never met the ASIC before. Will you wait 12-18 months for a device to be ready? For a company's customer service to be prepped on it inside out?

No, this is Bitcoin you all want the tech now.

If you want a consumer device like an Apple iPhone, then understand Apple have both the iPhone 6 and likely the IPhone 7 in hand are tweaking it to perfection for release. KnC haven't had the luxury of that time. you've had the damn thing for a couple of weeks less than they have, and we're all finding out what works, and what doesn't as an iterative process. The company is actually full of the most solid work ethic i've seen it's half 8 on a Friday evening and the software engineers, myself and most others are still here. No one has relaxed, sure the pressure and burden to some extent is off, but no one has the attitude of "Got your money..fuck off there's a good chap". You're just making crap up you want to believe. Really.

As I said months ago Marcus would have played with that thing and delayed it's release to perfection. Sam and Andreas understood for you have to have that device hashing in your hands asap. You got it, unrefined, but as refined as they have had it themselves, shipment began that same week. Issues are dealt with as they arise, and the majority are over the moon.

This makes me feel so much better, late deliveries and constant failures have cost me about 26btc. KNC's late and tardy delivery have cost buyers close to 20mill in lost USD, but at least it was in record time!

Cool, glad you're happy. If Avalon had delivered it may have cost you more.

If KNC had delivered it would have cost me less.

Next step http://www.konsumentverket.se/ inb4 not cosnumer device

Some friends of mine were having a laugh about KNC, if they were stationed in my country we would have robbed them of everything they had, I'm surprised no Euro crims havent attempted this yet.

[spiccioli]

My concern stemmed from the lack of recourse a colleague who had lost 42 BTC due to an admitted queue mix up on the part of KnC and had his orders pushed back well beyond day 2 orders.

Don't forget those who, like me, bought hosting...

My order was nowhere to be seen, not at the hosting, not shipped, the day they were sending out orders paid one MONTH later than mine!

Anyway, they refunded my unit and hosting costs, so at least they were honest to admit that something was wrong on their part.

My only regret is that, instead waiting for them  to fix the hosting issues, I should have asked them to ship my unit, I'm 1/2 a TH short now

spiccioli

[Micky25]

I really really don't understand, why there still is constant whining in this thread. Some of you guys only look at the past and at that, what you supposedly not made or lost.

Why not try to take a look at the present, at what you have and at the future and enjoy what you probably will make? We who have their ASIC-miners are still ahead of 99% of mankind in that topic.

I'm very happy with my KNC and BFSB stuff and already on the verge of positive ROI. Many things could have been better, but at least they are and mine.

[Bitcoinorama]

It's not nice to ignore people who answer your posts with facts bitcoinorama.

It's not cool to be attacked everytime I enter the thread, and attacked everytime I take a breather, especially w.r.t. design decisions I didn't make. Damned if I do, damned if I don't...

[DeathAndTaxes]

Perhaps a cost saving measure.

Perhaps?

It is the single most expensive component on the boards other than possibly the ASIC itself.
$20 ea and removing 4 per board is $80 per board or $320 per Jupiter.
If they shipped 5,000 Jupiters that is $1.6M USD.

I think we can safely say it was definitely.