[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[weisoq]

...Devtome is great and a driving force in this community but as they dump the price has fallin to its historical low. If price is double what it is which would take only a few btc then the writers would get just as much and less likely to dump because they feel its more precious. The bounties must be the driver for growth...

As you know I agree with the general thrust of your ideas, and some of the related suggestions of others. I've also made similar points, as have others. But nothing is done, changed or progressed and I appreciate that others with prospective projects or efforts pertaining to dvc developments increasingly have little incentive to work on them as potential rewards risk dwindling to nothing. This choice to maintain an sub-effective yet potentially brilliant system makes no sense to me.

So I have to assume such choices of mass inertia are either because the current scheme suits more people than it doesn't or more simply unthinkingbit for whatever reason wants it to remain as it is. Speaking personally it's becoming increasingly frustrating and pointless to pursue efforts for a project apparently determined by a process of centralised control (as is the prerogative I suppose, even if it completely conflicts with the decentralised concept) yet with little corresponding communication of ideas, let alone addressing or actioning broader concerns.

[notabot]

Devtome Stats has been updated for Round 29.



There were 369 shares. Each share is worth 487,804 devcoins.

There are 180,000,000 devcoins per round, the value of each share is 180,000,000/369 = 487,804

*fractional shares have been rounded up or down

[Unthinkingbit]

I suggest the following for the Mini Metal Printer, devcoiners in total can get up to 2 x 1,000$ Assembled MMM with Clay:
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/minimetalmaker-a-small-3d-printer-that-fabricates-with-precious-metal-clay/contributions/new?perk_amt=1000&perk_id=1498954

plus up to 4 x 750$ full kits with parts:
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/minimetalmaker-a-small-3d-printer-that-fabricates-with-precious-metal-clay/contributions/new?perk_amt=750&perk_id=1498938

Only one printer or kit per person, the maximum possible total take from generation is 5,000$. Anyone who has ever received devcoins from generation can contribute through Indiegogo with their name_devcoin. For example, Icoin mentioned that he was going to get a metal printer, he could contribute 1,000$ under the name Icoin_devcoin for an assembled MMM, and I would reimburse him 1,000$ worth of devcoins. Then I in turn would go on the share list that round to get that many devcoins from generation. People should only get metal printers if they have a workshop, printers are currently hard to use and break down often, they are not plug and play no matter what any press release says.

On top of this, if it turns out their design is open source, they would get 96 shares. The payout would be so big because the metal printer is the key to making everything else. Because the clay metal mixture is porous and shrinks during the burn off, the Mini Metal Printer will make low precision, low strength parts, but it's still a big step forward. In time if the devcoin market cap goes over 10 million we'll post another bounty for a pure metal printer which would make strong, precise parts.

Any objections, or should something be changed?

[koguma]

Hola!

  So, I'm building the devcoind daemon on Linux, and I see at least three different source repositories being mentioned.  I took a look through all three and here they are, ordered by most recent commits.  Which one(s) are official?

• https://gitorious.org/devcoin/devcoin  - Last commit 3 months ago
• https://github.com/knotwork/old-devcoind - Last commit 6 months ago
• https://github.com/doublec/devcoin - Last commit 2 years ago

The third one is really only mentioned because I'm pretty sure I got the link from an official source.  The first two links are pointed to from here or devtome.  I'm going with the first link above, but would sure like to know if it's the official, legit source.

Thanks!
Koguma

Looks like latest one is prob the one with last changes 3 months but I cant confirm.

Have you tried the linux daemon available?

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#linux

Both 32 bit and 64 bit already built.

The source link from that page points to the first link.  I prefer to build my own, as I'm also linking with Google's tcmalloc at compile time.  I've also got the build process down pat pretty much and I'm building all the alt coins...

[Marbit]

how does 96 shares fit in with other devcoin bounties? seems pretty high, but as long as we're not discouraging other devcoin-related projects seems fine.

[Unthinkingbit]

..
Sorry I edited it, but miners getting 10% is fine since we are merge mined we don't have a problem with the hash rate.

The proposal is to reduce the writers pay to 45% of the 90% that is going to "developers". As bounties complete the value of the coin will rise giving more incentive to write and slowly reduce the 45% to use the ad revenue that should grow and help make devtome self sufficient. There writers payout percentage should be based on a metric and should reduce as the ad revenue increases. This should not be a set 45% but a max of 45% with no ad revenue.
..

We can't predict when people will accomplish bounties, so it's impossible to put a fixed amount into bounties. However people overwhelmingly want more bounties, so we'll pay more. The bounties on the page:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

were set when devcoin shares were worth around 15$ each. This round, because the huge increase in bitcoin price outweighed the decrease in btc/dvc price, and there were fewer words written, the share price will be around 40$, so all those bounties are worth more than double, which should be enough to get takers. Since the long term share price is 15$, it could go back down, so if the share price ever goes below 30$ I'll redouble bounty shares for anything that was not awarded.

Maybe we could pay code by the 1k lines, and art per 1k pixels, and diversify the payout scheme.  (CodeTome.com, ArtTome.com)
..

Code has to be paid by what it does. There's no mechanical way of determining how much code is worth, it's going to be subjective. If people want, we could pay some projects on the share lists more:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/bitcoinshare.html
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/devcoinshare.html

One way would be to make a rating system for projects, like we have for writers. It would have to be done by admins and people on the share lists also, because opening it up to everyone would make it easy to game:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_rater#subjectivity

..
art per 1k pixels, and diversify the payout scheme.  (CodeTome.com, ArtTome.com)
..

We don't yet have the resources in money or admins to make other types of sites. We barely have enough to handle devtome now. If the bitcoin price keeps rising, we'll eventually have enough resources to make other sites.

A piggy bank approach may offer a quicker way for bounties to be taken up. We would simply have to make them more visible to people through marketing ie add to workforcrypto.com and other places.. Admins should be doing this or set up a bounty to do this.

People can start by adding the existing bounties, with links to the original on the devtome page, to workforcrypto.com and other places.

Bounties take time to administer, and in future, to market and post in other places. Smeagol handles business bounties, if anyone has an idea for a business bounty message him. For other bounties, I'll add the choice of bounty admin for the next admins, until then I'll keep awarding the non business bounties. People can always post a request for a bounty. I don't have the time to also post bounties on other sites, so people can do that on their own until we get a bounty admin.

For new bounties, following the rule that the largest bounty that can be funded is about 1% of the market capitalization of devcoin (around 500,000$ at the time of writing), that means bounties can only be up to 5,000$. That's for the most important stuff, regular projects will be less than that. We can't fund big projects yet.

[ANiceJewishBoy]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT... These guys are going to need a few shares...

Look up:

Biological Teleportation. Not sure if it's online but if you turn on CSPAN-2 right now they are talking about it. (edit: never mind, literally just ended, just questions now)
Basically though, you can download a virus (like the flu) or a vaccine and you can print it out. They say they have insulin coming out already.

Then look up:

Digital Biological Converter, it's basically the 3D printer of life as we know it. We can now PRINT LIFE. They are working on printing bacteria and such soon.

And it all works by using blank cells and creating DNA in yeast. So It's actually EXTREMELY simple. As DNA is only made up of a few simple components, you don't even need lab grade shit.

[ANiceJewishBoy]

They were all ready to teleport something through the cloud earlier this year, but the government stopped them.

http://www.kurzweilai.net/craig-venters-biological-teleportation-device

[sidhujag]

..
Sorry I edited it, but miners getting 10% is fine since we are merge mined we don't have a problem with the hash rate.

The proposal is to reduce the writers pay to 45% of the 90% that is going to "developers". As bounties complete the value of the coin will rise giving more incentive to write and slowly reduce the 45% to use the ad revenue that should grow and help make devtome self sufficient. There writers payout percentage should be based on a metric and should reduce as the ad revenue increases. This should not be a set 45% but a max of 45% with no ad revenue.
..

We can't predict when people will accomplish bounties, so it's impossible to put a fixed amount into bounties. However people overwhelmingly want more bounties, so we'll pay more. The bounties on the page:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

were set when devcoin shares were worth around 15$ each. This round, because the huge increase in bitcoin price outweighed the decrease in btc/dvc price, and there were fewer words written, the share price will be around 40$, so all those bounties are worth more than double, which should be enough to get takers. Since the long term share price is 15$, it could go back down, so if the share price ever goes below 30$ I'll redouble bounty shares for anything that was not awarded.

Maybe we could pay code by the 1k lines, and art per 1k pixels, and diversify the payout scheme.  (CodeTome.com, ArtTome.com)
..

Code has to be paid by what it does. There's no mechanical way of determining how much code is worth, it's going to be subjective. If people want, we could pay some projects on the share lists more:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/bitcoinshare.html
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/devcoinshare.html

One way would be to make a rating system for projects, like we have for writers. It would have to be done by admins and people on the share lists also, because opening it up to everyone would make it easy to game:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_rater#subjectivity

..
art per 1k pixels, and diversify the payout scheme.  (CodeTome.com, ArtTome.com)
..

We don't yet have the resources in money or admins to make other types of sites. We barely have enough to handle devtome now. If the bitcoin price keeps rising, we'll eventually have enough resources to make other sites.

A piggy bank approach may offer a quicker way for bounties to be taken up. We would simply have to make them more visible to people through marketing ie add to workforcrypto.com and other places.. Admins should be doing this or set up a bounty to do this.

People can start by adding the existing bounties, with links to the original on the devtome page, to workforcrypto.com and other places.

Bounties take time to administer, and in future, to market and post in other places. Smeagol handles business bounties, if anyone has an idea for a business bounty message him. For other bounties, I'll add the choice of bounty admin for the next admins, until then I'll keep awarding the non business bounties. People can always post a request for a bounty. I don't have the time to also post bounties on other sites, so people can do that on their own until we get a bounty admin.

For new bounties, following the rule that the largest bounty that can be funded is about 1% of the market capitalization of devcoin (around 500,000$ at the time of writing), that means bounties can only be up to 5,000$. That's for the most important stuff, regular projects will be less than that. We can't fund big projects yet.

Why not let bounties add up until market decides when to take it.. why put hard limits? Why not set the rules instead of hoping others will conform?

[best_btc]

can somebody please help me with reality-checking of my speculation logic: relatively, the higher the btc price goes, understandeably the alts go down, as we see. lets say, I invested 1m usd in btc a year ago, and now its worth 10m. would I not see high probabilty in putting those 10m into low worth altcoins? when to buy, if not, when they are low? If an altcoin gets air, it has the chance of getting back to its even former price, lets say it 5-10x whats its worth now, by simply the pump excitement. i am not saying, that btc won't reach from now 5-10x its value of 2500-5,000 usd, but its much less likely to happen in a given time period, than it is for it to happen to alts.
in april, i kinda had this logic, to ride the wave in the wave, but was impatient to let btc soar into its real highs. when following this logic, i was consciously looking for the smallest valued coin, this is how i ended up with DVC to be honest. i thought, that the lower the value, the higher the capability to volatility. --> if dvc goes now from 18 satoshis to 36, its not making news headlines. but when btc goes from 450 to 900 usd (same ratio), that is news all over. see? I have this logic, that small alts have this amazing potential to soar, but still. what is missing? or am i totally on the wrong track here? thoughts please.

and one more thing: i am not exactly getting the full picture, i am learning, but i hear you say, that the business modell of dvc so far actually makes people dump their coins right away. if that is true, lets fix this dynamic urgently... that would be ridiculous.

[sidhujag]

can somebody please help me with reality-checking of my speculation logic: relatively, the higher the btc price goes, understandeably the alts go down, as we see. lets say, I invested 1m usd in btc a year ago, and now its worth 10m. would I not see high probabilty in putting those 10m into low worth altcoins? when to buy, if not, when they are low? If an altcoin gets air, it has the chance of getting back to its even former price, lets say it 5-10x whats its worth now, by simply the pump excitement. i am not saying, that btc won't reach from now 5-10x its value of 5000-10,000 usd, but its much less likely to happen in a given time period, than it is for it to happen to alts.
in april, i kinda had this logic, to ride the wave in the wave, but was impatient to let btc soar into its real highs. when following this logic, i was consciously looking for the smallest valued coin, this is how i ended up with DVC to be honest. i thought, that the lower the value, the higher the capability to volatility. --> if dvc goes now from 18 satoshis to 36, its not making news headlines. but when btc goes from 450 to 900 usd (same ratio), that is news all over. see? I have this logic, that small alts have this amazing potential to soar, but still. what is missing? or am i totally on the wrong track here? thoughts please.

and one more thing: i am not exactly getting the full picture, i am learning, but i hear you say, that the business modell of dvc so far actually makes people dump their coins right away. if that is true, lets fix this dynamic urgently... that would be ridiculous.

Gotta look at volume the liquidity isnt there for big players to come speculate. In the long run we are early adopters but ppl are only willing to play with liquid pairs which is fair... so your doing the right thing.. if btcchina gets dvc more volume higher price

[alyssa85]

can somebody please help me with reality-checking of my speculation logic: relatively, the higher the btc price goes, understandeably the alts go down, as we see. lets say, I invested 1m usd in btc a year ago, and now its worth 10m. would I not see high probabilty in putting those 10m into low worth altcoins? when to buy, if not, when they are low? If an altcoin gets air, it has the chance of getting back to its even former price, lets say it 5-10x whats its worth now, by simply the pump excitement. i am not saying, that btc won't reach from now 5-10x its value of 2500-5,000 usd, but its much less likely to happen in a given time period, than it is for it to happen to alts.
in april, i kinda had this logic, to ride the wave in the wave, but was impatient to let btc soar into its real highs. when following this logic, i was consciously looking for the smallest valued coin, this is how i ended up with DVC to be honest. i thought, that the lower the value, the higher the capability to volatility. --> if dvc goes now from 18 satoshis to 36, its not making news headlines. but when btc goes from 450 to 900 usd (same ratio), that is news all over. see? I have this logic, that small alts have this amazing potential to soar, but still. what is missing? or am i totally on the wrong track here? thoughts please.

and one more thing: i am not exactly getting the full picture, i am learning, but i hear you say, that the business modell of dvc so far actually makes people dump their coins right away. if that is true, lets fix this dynamic urgently... that would be ridiculous.

Back in April when bitcoin last had it's big surge, there were only about six or seven alt coins - and it was the fashion for newcomers to the bitcoin world to put some money in all of these "just in case".

There's now about 150 altcoins, and while a few people this time are talking about putting some money in altcoins, this time round the consensus in places like Reddit is that all alts are "scams", due to the sheer number of them. Those few newcomers who are interested in alts don't even know Devcoin exists because it doesn't get visibility on places like "lets talk bitcoins" or wired and the other "mainstream" places which occasionally write about alts.

Regarding the writers - they receive their coins 45,000 at a time, so while the small sales of 100,000 coins a time might be from them, the big dumps of several million coins at a time tend to be from savers who've accumulated in the last two years. There are about 92 million devcoins in existence - and as the bitcoin price rises, people are scouring their wallets and selling any and all alts they have for bitcoins, which they cash into dollars asap because the bitcoin price is likely to pull back (nothing goes up permanently in a straight line after all). All the alts have crashed as a result.

When the bitcoin price drops back a bit, the alts will stabilize too as the desperation to sell abates. It's a waiting game.

[best_btc]

"There are about 92 million devcoins in existence" - ahm, you meant billion, or sth else, right?

[best_btc]

what makes us think, that the btc price stabilization is around the corner to see? I am tempted to think that it will continue rise into the thousands'... just to f*ck with me personally.... :/

[alyssa85]

what makes us think, that the btc price stabilization is around the corner to see? I am tempted to think that it will continue rise into the thousands'... just to f*ck with me personally.... :/

Because people like to take profits. The price has tripled in about three weeks, it has to pull back at some point.

Re devcoin - yes, I meant billions :-)

Devcoin has actually made a lot of progress in the last six months - there is an ongoing experiment with monetising devtome, there are now new places to spend the coins that didn't exist before. What we really need is unthinkingbit to get interviewed on "lets talk bitcoin" about why devcoin is perfect for microtransactions (v low transaction fee in dollar terms compared to all other alts and bitcoin) and generally get the existence of the coin out there. Then we'll get new buyers.

It would help if some of the scam alts died. I understand back in 2012 there were concerted attempts to kill coins (successfully), but that seems to have died and there are now too many alts with no point to most of them beyond mining and pumping.

[ANiceJewishBoy]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT... These guys are going to need a few shares...

Look up:

Biological Teleportation. Not sure if it's online but if you turn on CSPAN-2 right now they are talking about it. (edit: never mind, literally just ended, just questions now)
Basically though, you can download a virus (like the flu) or a vaccine and you can print it out. They say they have insulin coming out already.

Then look up:

Digital Biological Converter, it's basically the 3D printer of life as we know it. We can now PRINT LIFE. They are working on printing bacteria and such soon.

And it all works by using blank cells and creating DNA in yeast. So It's actually EXTREMELY simple. As DNA is only made up of a few simple components, you don't even need lab grade shit.

Just going to say this again ^^^

They don't really need shares, I was just saying this is an amazing development. We should try to get on this shit.

[smeagol]

...
Each share is worth 487,804 devcoins.
...

Yeah!   That's a lot of coin!

[ANiceJewishBoy]

Devcoin funded microbiology series, I'll be getting a 1000x microscope semi-soon, and a 200x microscope is in the mail
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOdP3No61R4

[best_btc]

does anyone have a dvc/usd chart to show?

[shakezula]

I have sorted the issues with WooCommerce, the Devcoin bookstore is open again.

Working on a whole site refresh with new crypto-currency solutions accepting payments via DVC as well.