Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[tempestb]

True, but I'd rather have more power than running a PSU on the edge of its capacity.  I also like that I can switch it to silent if the load isn't that high.  A quiet miner is a friendly miner.  Haha...

[1714095299]

1714095299

[Phoenix1969]

Silencer MK III - https://shop.pcpower.com/products/description/Silencer_Mk_III_1200W/index.html

That's an overkill unless you want to power 1x Jupiter and 1x Mercury.

Actually NOT overkill, the best efficiency is achieved around 60% draw on the PSU... Just a tad expensive to do with a single ATX

[bitpop]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182251

[ASIC-K]

300 dollar psu for a bitcoin miner? yeah thats nuts.

[Bitcoinorama]

£120 (Good quality PSU for example Corsair HX850)

That won't be enough. For Jupiter you would need to have at least HX1050 PSU (or better) to be on the safe side. ($240, £155)

Also, you forgot import taxes. At least for Norway, that's 25% of the unit cost. Don't know about Sweden->UK

There is no reason to buy a single huge expensive ATX for the Jupiter.
You can achieve the same or better results using two smaller Power units, which cost less than a single Biggie.

What PSU will you recommend then?
In my opinion Seasonic and Corsair make the best ones, but other brands are good too - Antec, Enermax, Coolermaster, OCZ, Silverstone

DON'T go out buying a PSU, they've stated that before. They will recommend closer to the delivery date.

[merv77]

That won't be enough. For Jupiter you would need to have at least HX1050 PSU (or better) to be on the safe side. ($240, £155)

I'm 99% positive it will be enough. I don't expect Jupiter to consume more than 900W and this specific PSU have a headroom for more than 1000W

even if the Jupiter ran at 750W it still could peak at or over 1000W.  These miners aren't like a normal computers were power consumption wouldn't be 100% full load 24/7

also keep in mind that if there were any breakthroughs and I bet there will be someone if not KnC trying to tweak or overclock pushing them to their limits.
if you were into overclocking and trying to push the envelope so to speak, then you want more power.
After KnC release final spec on power consumption I'll be getting something with at least 50% more power than it needs.

[Phoenix1969]

£120 (Good quality PSU for example Corsair HX850)

That won't be enough. For Jupiter you would need to have at least HX1050 PSU (or better) to be on the safe side. ($240, £155)

Also, you forgot import taxes. At least for Norway, that's 25% of the unit cost. Don't know about Sweden->UK

There is no reason to buy a single huge expensive ATX for the Jupiter.
You can achieve the same or better results using two smaller Power units, which cost less than a single Biggie.

What PSU will you recommend then?
In my opinion Seasonic and Corsair make the best ones, but other brands are good too - Antec, Enermax, Coolermaster, OCZ, Silverstone

DON'T go out buying a PSU, they've stated that before. They will recommend closer to the delivery date.

O'rama...  Yeah, I know, but with the 4000+ people going to look for PSU's at once... One could end up in "A pickle" if the ATX's end up "out of stock" for a bit, and there are only so many "Good deals" around.

[canth]

DON'T go out buying a PSU, they've stated that before. They will recommend closer to the delivery date.

+1. There's not going to be a run on PSUs - at least not from KNC customers. Even 10K units isn't going to take out everyone's inventory of quality, suitable units. Just sit tight...

[CYPER]

DON'T go out buying a PSU, they've stated that before. They will recommend closer to the delivery date.

You like telling me things that I already know, don't you  

Let's try the other way around - do you know which cable/cables from the PSU will be used to power the miner? (I know the answer to this one too)

[tempestb]

You're buying a $7000 miner but then skimp out on the power over an additional $200?  Madness!  Haha...  To each their own man, I like the reliability of PC P&C's PSU's.  They can be a bit pricey but they are solid.  Having your PSU puke on you can not only require a replacement but has the potential of damaging your components depending on how it fails.  I lean towards quality over dollars in that respect.  Just makes sense to me.  But it's cool, that extra $200 might be food on your table, so do what is best for you.

[canth]

O'rama...  Yeah, I know, but with the 4000+ people going to look for PSU's at once... One could end up in "A pickle" if the ATX's end up "out of stock" for a bit.

Thousands of people world-wide, placed over a period of a weeks - that's not going to be a problem for even one store to handle and restock. Unless there's an earthquake that takes out manufacturers in China/Taiwan/Korea then it won't be a problem.

[Bitcoinorama]

DON'T go out buying a PSU, they've stated that before. They will recommend closer to the delivery date.

You like telling me things that I already know, don't you  

Let's try the other way around - do you know which cable/cables from the PSU will be used to power the miner? (I know the answer to this one too)

You truly are the master of making a question out of a statement Cyper, that's three times in a row!

[Phoenix1969]

You're buying a $7000 miner but then skimp out on the power over an additional $200?  Madness!  Haha...  To each their own man, I like the reliability of PC P&C's PSU's.  They can be a bit pricey but they are solid.  Having your PSU puke on you can not only require a replacement but has the potential of damaging your components depending on how it fails.  I lean towards quality over dollars in that respect.  Just makes sense to me.  But it's cool, that extra $200 might be food on your table, so do what is best for you.

Thats great if you are only buying a single miner, some of us are buying several, and plan on more....  which could add up significantly, especially if suppliers are short on stock. Also, in any retail business... high demand usually means raising the price. You can still get a quality PSU for a good price if its not a monster

[Phoenix1969]

O'rama...  Yeah, I know, but with the 4000+ people going to look for PSU's at once... One could end up in "A pickle" if the ATX's end up "out of stock" for a bit.

Thousands of people world-wide, placed over a period of a weeks - that's not going to be a problem for even one store to handle and restock. Unless there's an earthquake that takes out manufacturers in China/Taiwan/Korea then it won't be a problem.

Have you ever ordered PSU's?  I have, and have bought from several sources... Typically Amazon, Newegg, and large chains.  When you place an order, they typically tell you how many are in stock. As an example, when I ordered the Corsair 600's, Amazon had 7 in stock; not thousands. Newegg was similar, but Amazon had the better price. Now imagine 4500 people going online to buy PSU's the day KNC says... "OK, a 1000w PSU will do for a Jupiter, and a 500w will be fine for a Saturn, happy hunting".    BAM, all the in-stock nicely priced popular name PSU's will be on "backorder", and your choice will be either wait, order a off-brand cheapo, or pay outrageous price from a questionable vendor.

[Bitcoinorama]

O'rama...  Yeah, I know, but with the 4000+ people going to look for PSU's at once... One could end up in "A pickle" if the ATX's end up "out of stock" for a bit.

Thousands of people world-wide, placed over a period of a weeks - that's not going to be a problem for even one store to handle and restock. Unless there's an earthquake that takes out manufacturers in China/Taiwan/Korea then it won't be a problem.

Have you ever ordered PSU's?  I have, and have bought from several sources... Typically Amazon, Newegg, and large chains.  When you place an order, they typically tell you how many are in stock. As an example, when I ordered the Corsair 600's, Amazon had 7 in stock; not thousands. Newegg was similar, but Amazon had the better price. Now imagine 4500 people going online to buy PSU's the day KNC says... "OK, a 1000w PSU will do for a Jupiter, and a 500w will be fine for a Saturn, happy hunting".    BAM, all the in-stock PSU's will be on "backorder".

Yes, disturbingly it may involve standing, walking and driving to a store over a mouse click.

[ultrix]

O'rama...  Yeah, I know, but with the 4000+ people going to look for PSU's at once... One could end up in "A pickle" if the ATX's end up "out of stock" for a bit.

Thousands of people world-wide, placed over a period of a weeks - that's not going to be a problem for even one store to handle and restock. Unless there's an earthquake that takes out manufacturers in China/Taiwan/Korea then it won't be a problem.

Have you ever ordered PSU's?  I have, and have bought from several sources... Typically Amazon, Newegg, and large chains.  When you place an order, they typically tell you how many are in stock. As an example, when I ordered the Corsair 600's, Amazon had 7 in stock; not thousands. Newegg was similar, but Amazon had the better price. Now imagine 4500 people going online to buy PSU's the day KNC says... "OK, a 1000w PSU will do for a Jupiter, and a 500w will be fine for a Saturn, happy hunting".    BAM, all the in-stock PSU's will be on "backorder".

Yes, disturbingly it may involve standing, walking and driving to a store over a mouse click.

Some of us ordered enough miners that it is unlikely a single store location would have enough quantity in stock...  Further I would be disappointed if their DC to DC converters were not tolerant of ATX 2.3 spec supply ranges.

[Phoenix1969]

O'rama...  Yeah, I know, but with the 4000+ people going to look for PSU's at once... One could end up in "A pickle" if the ATX's end up "out of stock" for a bit.

Thousands of people world-wide, placed over a period of a weeks - that's not going to be a problem for even one store to handle and restock. Unless there's an earthquake that takes out manufacturers in China/Taiwan/Korea then it won't be a problem.

Have you ever ordered PSU's?  I have, and have bought from several sources... Typically Amazon, Newegg, and large chains.  When you place an order, they typically tell you how many are in stock. As an example, when I ordered the Corsair 600's, Amazon had 7 in stock; not thousands. Newegg was similar, but Amazon had the better price. Now imagine 4500 people going online to buy PSU's the day KNC says... "OK, a 1000w PSU will do for a Jupiter, and a 500w will be fine for a Saturn, happy hunting".    BAM, all the in-stock PSU's will be on "backorder".

Yes, disturbingly it may involve standing, walking and driving to a store over a mouse click.

Good point Orama.  But for people like me in places like Hawaii, there is nowhere to obtain a PSU in a store, unless it's a small repair shop, where they typically charge 3x the price here in Hawaii..  No "Fry's" or the like.

I'm actually stripping old systems as well, for the psu's.

[rizzman]

You've been one of the few that followed through and made some calls prior to make sure you're behaving responsibly before purchasing anything here, so good luck bud

When I spoke with him today he made a remark: "It's good you did a research", which most people don't do

Still I don't see a reason why you souldn't register as a reseller
It's free

I may do once chips are in their hands and proven to exist. Until which point I'm still the scum of the earth according to this forum. I'd be damned if I did, and damned if I didn't. I'd personally prefer the lesser of two evils and wait before adding any kind of reseller link for myself. The abuse is just not worth it. I'm sure if everything work out as planned there will still be reasons to demonise me. I actually kind of regret going if I'm honest.

Dude, If they ship on time I'll buy 10 jupiters through you in november. Lets just hope they get everything moving for an early september release

[kingcoin]

That is true. The timing models and static timing analysis of the ASIC's are very accurate. But they are given at a certain power supply level and temperature. If you mess up your mechanical, thermal and PSU design so these conditions are not satisfied then you're pretty much screwed.

However, if you then start to test your system and push the margins you will be screwed again since you don't know where in the process window the particular chip you have in the lab is. If it's a best case device then your systems might fail when you get a new batch of ASIC's which are not best case. Your production line will halt and you have to start debugging again. Or even worse, if your production test is not optimal you will not notice until customers starts to complain and return your product.

There will be for sure a lot of fun in the KnC lab!

They stated at the open day, that they will not do any classical ASIC production tests (neither wafer test nor final test). If this is still true, it means they will package the dies and put the resulting chips on the PCBs blind.
If the chips work at all and at which speed they probably can determine by running a complete miner only. In worst case this can result in tweaking each box individually.

That's insane. If something is wrong they will not know if it's a problem with the ASIC or not. They can't complain to the ASIC vendor either and they will not have a clue in terms of yield. Did they do this to save time so they would not have to learn and run ATPG tools?

[2112]

That's insane. If something is wrong they will not know if it's a problem with the ASIC or not. They can't complain to the ASIC vendor either and they will not have a clue in terms of yield. Did they do this to save time so they would not have to learn and run ATPG tools?

What are you talking about? What would be an example defect that would completely disable a chip with 4 non-overlapping/non-intersecting clock trees?

Please go back to your ATPG tools and obtain the probabilities. Then report back here and re-state who is insane.

Also: use your best design-for-test methodology to create a test pattern. Then compare the coverage with just any 10 random 80-byte test patterns. Then come back here and report who is a CAD-monkey in this thread.

Edit: I'll add this explanation for the readers unfamiliar with logic design. SHA-256 is essentially self testing: there's no internal state that is either not controllable or not observable. Same with all the interconnects. It is possible to construct a very-low-probability faults that will go undetected in the unrolled design. But their probability is way lower than the acceptable hardware error nonce rate in a Bitcoin miner (single percentage points).

For the readers unfamiliar with logic design but capable of compiling a program: take an example working SHA-256 code and make a single character change somewhere in the code, e.g. '0' to '1'. Then recompile and compare the results of hashing a test file with 1000 randomly choosen 80-byte strings. You'll immediately understand what it means "high toggle rate" and "self-testing logic".

This self-testing property has been discussed on this forum multiple times, in English and in other languages.