Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[timmmers]

I'm totally ROFL and LMAO at the same time. Promises.

I don't think Cointerra is raising the funds they need to launch in December either.  They seem to need non-recourse pre-order payments.

That doesn't surprise me, it's no longer the golden goose it was a few months ago is it? Too much choice and too much risk and too many bad experiences added to low probability of decent returns ...all bad if you need to raise funds.
You'd need balls of steel to invest heavily at this point.

[1713852104]

1713852104

[Mota]

Only for your anxiety, I've updated my numbers a bit!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgSa2BKZz0WudHVlQVc0NmNVaXJEUHdLS090dWptSEE&usp=sharing

15th of October - at this increase rate - seems to be the "deadline".

Let's hope their "margins upon margins" and "underpromise, overdeliver" also includes the shipping date.  

In the business world "shipping in October" means "we move the boxes closer to the door to our factory October 31st, maybe they'll get out the door in early November".  If they intended to ship mid-October they would have just said that.

I agree though, that unless something slows the difficulty, receiving your unit Nov 1 means taking a significant loss (probably at least 20%).

Maybe all this Avalon drama will put a dent in the difficulty, but doesn't seem too likely.

Again with a useless spreadsheet. Stop spreading FUD with that utter bullshit. To get to that 37k TH where your equilibrium is you would need an additional ~350 000 in KNC's 28nm Chips.... Or 144 MILLION avalon Chips.  So PLEASE stop making spreadsheets if you have no idea how economics works.

Mota I have noticed a interesting pattern with you where you seem to show up blow open you big Mouth and talk crap every time someone post a question or post about difficulty..  Makes me wonder who you really are and what you are really doing here.  Reminds me of some of those shrills over at the BFL forums that would swoop down and try and destroy ANYONE that sad ANYTHING the least bit negative..

Give it a rest dude, your too obvious..  That and that you have no clue what your actually talking about.. Crawl back in your hole.

Mind Blown.

Let me clarify something for you: This is a free forum, I can voice my opinion anyway I like. I absolutely hate people who are too lazy to read a few (and a few more sometimes) pages back or use the search function and ask the same questions over and over again.
Honestly, it gives me eyecancer and wastes my precious time to read bullshit. So sometimes I reply in a not-so-gentlemanly fashion.

It is a simple fact that the difficulty for Bitcoin can't be predicted accurately for more than maybe 4 Months tops, and even that is a hughe gamble prediction-wise. I remember people stating we would be at 200 Million at late June/early July because BFL, Avalon and all the others were going to ship in full and with more GH than one could possibly imagine.

Also: Many people wonder who I really am! Some say I am Satoshi himself. Others whisper I am a race car driver in a certain TV-show.

But seriously, I am just a member of this forum who sells some stuff in the German subforum and has a degree in information technology and economics. So no, I have absolutely no idea what I am talking about and I am just here to troll people into thinking that all facts posted here are indeed no more than FUD. Hah! My evil plan might have succeeded without your interference!!!

[Bitcoinorama]

Also: Many people wonder who I really am! Some say I am Satoshi himself. Others whisper I am a race car driver in a certain TV-show.

Seriously...'the Stig'??

[demonmaestro]

LMAO. that maybe wishful thinking. Nobody knows who the stig is..

[klee]

Also: Many people wonder who I really am! Some say I am Satoshi himself. Others whisper I am a race car driver in a certain TV-show.

Seriously...'the Stig'??

LMAO LMAO LMAO

[600watt]

cool down guys. it is dramatic but not desperate.


imagine one ordered and paid 10 jupiters.

with a difficulty of 100 mio this nice little mining farm would hash 20 btc per day.
with a difficulty of 1000 mio it would hash 2 btc per day.
with a difficulty of 2000 mio it would hash 1 btc per day.

that would mean that there is the equivalent of 3599 mining farms of this size around competing with ours. (3600 coins per day are available)
it needs 1800 x 10 jupiters for the difficulty to rise to 1000 mio. 18 000 jupiters cost 126 mio $. (i know there will be more efficient miners in the future, but there were also less efficient/more expensive ones in the past - so let´s just assume this levels out)

btc mining needs a "market capitalization" of 126 mio $ for the difficulty to rise towards a level, when a 70k investment makes 60 btc per month, at current gox = 7800,- $. even under those circumstances hardware break even would be possible in less then 10 months. if btc price doubles even 250 mio $ of purchased mining equippment wouldn´t kill roi forever.

i don´t see more then 100 mio $ going into mining in the near future.

if it works with 10 jupiters it will also work with just one.

[bbxx]

knc miners are not profitable. deal with it.

[plasmoske]

Knc seems profitable for quite some time.

BFL/Avalon and others, well their time is almost up.

Just don't use a mining calculator. That thing is so flawed and misleading lol.

[robix]

September is at the doorstep. Some schedule would be nice.

[bbxx]

knc miners are not profitable. deal with it.

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed...

Go back to sleep little one.

yeah please stop using unicorn mining calculator
do homework and include shipping cost, psu and vat if you are in eu.

when you order knc miner now you will have it delivered when network hashrate will be tripled or more so you will never got back your btc

[Bitcoinorama]

knc miners are not profitable. deal with it.

How? Prove it. Figures. You're spreading fud. The genesis block calc has so many more functions than the default most of the newbies in this forum are concentrating on (or those currently attempting to scare people).

For the default calculations to transpire over time the network would have to continuously double in a linear fashion time and time again. Impossible. Never going to happen.

Say 3,000 units are shipped in Oct, that would require 6,000 in November, the 12,000 in December, then 24,000 come Jan, 48,000 in February, 96,000 in March, 192,000 units delivered in April, 384,000 units in may, 768,000 units in June.

Can you honestly see this as even remotely realistic?!? It's ridiculous.

Knc, and whoever else are never going to manufacture and sell that many devices. Sure you can 'scale production' to a few thousand a month, and i've chosen 3,000 as an achievable figure, but the doubling, and doubling, and doubling. There's some seriously naive people in this forum.

I actually wrote to the Genesis Block and asked them to address this. I suggested they allow us to enter achievable figures of prouction for various manufacturers, and the dates by which those products are likely to be introduced to give more realistic scenarios, which they like, as it's the most sensible way to approach this, and they agreed, they like the idea.

In the mean time there's a constant increase per month option (MM) which can be used instead of the nutty (%) that is there by default. I may even write up a tutorial as people seem reluctant to play with the calc as it's quite useful if you know how to use it properly, which apparently a significant percentage of this forum can't. It's got to the point where it's just laughable and it's being used purposely to scare away small miners, which in turn will effect the distribution of the network. It's just beyond comprehension how the majority of people in this forum think a compounded increase in network harhrate is feasible over the long term!!

Certainly in this period of transition as GPU farms dies out and ASICs are introduced there are solid doubles of network over time, but if you think KnC, or Cointerra will be able to manufacture in excess of 5,000 units a month you're a complete idiot.

[-Redacted-]

You'll do a lot less typing if you just add bbxx to your ignore list, along with Kuroth and the other trolls....

[BigLad]

Knc seems profitable for quite some time.

BFL/Avalon and others, well their time is almost up.

Just don't use a mining calculator. That thing is so flawed and misleading lol.

Would you mind elaborating? I'm not picking a fight or questioning negatively.  I am interested to hear your views

[bbxx]

knc miners are not profitable. deal with it.

How? Prove it. Figures. You're spreading fud. The genesis block calc has so many more functions than the default most of the newbies in this forum are concentrating on (or those currently attempting to scare people).

For the default calculations to transpire over time the network would have to continuously double in a linear fashion time and time again. Impossible. Never going to happen.

Say 3,000 units are shipped in Oct, that would require 6,000 in November, the 12,000 in December, then 24,000 come Jan, 48,000 in February, 96,000 in March, 192,000 units delivered in April, 384,000 units in may, 768,000 units in June.

Can you honestly see this as even remotely realistic?!? It's ridiculous.

Knc, and whoever else are never going to manufacture and sell that many devices. Sure you can 'scale production' to a few thousand a month, and i've chosen 3,000 as an achievable figure, but the doubling, and doubling, and doubling. There's some seriously naive people in this forum.

I actually wrote to the Genesis Block and asked them to address this. I suggested they allow us to enter achievable figures of prouction for various manufacturers, and the dates by which those products are likely to be introduced to give more realistic scenarios, which they like, as it's the most sensible way to approach this, and they agreed, they like the idea.

In the mean time there's a constant increase per month option (MM) which can be used instead of the nutty (%) that is there by default. I may even write up a tutorial as people seem reluctant to play with the calc as it's quite useful if you know how to use it properly, which apparently a significant percentage of this forum can't. It's got to the point where it's just laughable and it's being used purposely to scare away small miners, which in turn will effect the distribution of the network. It's just beyond comprehension how the majority of people in this forum think a compounded increase in network harhrate is feasible over the long term!!

Certainly in this period of transition as GPU farms dies out and ASICs are introduced there are solid doubles of network over time, but if you think KnC, or Cointerra will be able to manufacture in excess of 5,000 units a month you're a complete idiot.

i am not complete idiot

consider icedrill, petahash, hashfast, bfl, asicminer, avalon chips, bitfury, knc, cointerra, vnc, labcoin, bitgarden and others
all will be shipping late october/november when your knc unicorn will be paid in half (if you ordered early)
after that you will be getting less and less till nothing

the truth is if you will not make roi in next 2-3 months you are at loss.

[klee]

knc miners are not profitable. deal with it.

How? Prove it. Figures. You're spreading fud. The genesis block calc has so many more functions than the default most of the newbies in this forum are concentrating on (or those currently attempting to scare people).

For the default calculations to transpire over time the network would have to continuously double in a linear fashion time and time again. Impossible. Never going to happen.

Say 3,000 units are shipped in Oct, that would require 6,000 in November, the 12,000 in December, then 24,000 come Jan, 48,000 in February, 96,000 in March, 192,000 units delivered in April, 384,000 units in may, 768,000 units in June.

Can you honestly see this as even remotely realistic?!? It's ridiculous.

Knc, and whoever else are never going to manufacture and sell that many devices. Sure you can 'scale production' to a few thousand a month, and i've chosen 3,000 as an achievable figure, but the doubling, and doubling, and doubling. There's some seriously naive people in this forum.

I actually wrote to the Genesis Block and asked them to address this. I suggested they allow us to enter achievable figures of prouction for various manufacturers, and the dates by which those products are likely to be introduced to give more realistic scenarios, which they like, as it's the most sensible way to approach this, and they agreed, they like the idea.

In the mean time there's a constant increase per month option (MM) which can be used instead of the nutty (%) that is there by default. I may even write up a tutorial as people seem reluctant to play with the calc as it's quite useful if you know how to use it properly, which apparently a significant percentage of this forum can't. It's got to the point where it's just laughable and it's being used purposely to scare away small miners, which in turn will effect the distribution of the network. It's just beyond comprehension how the majority of people in this forum think a compounded increase in network harhrate is feasible over the long term!!

Certainly in this period of transition as GPU farms dies out and ASICs are introduced there are solid doubles of network over time, but if you think KnC, or Cointerra will be able to manufacture in excess of 5,000 units a month you're a complete idiot.

Can you do some calculations with your estimations for Sep, Oct, Nov, Dec? Including all possible vendors.
Interesting to see the results!
Thanks.

[sickpig]

the truth is if you will not make roi in next 2-3 months you are at loss.

so now you've changed your mind, haven't you?

b/c a few post above, you stated:

knc miners are not profitable. deal with it.

am I missing something obvious ?

[Bitcoinorama]

knc miners are not profitable. deal with it.

How? Prove it. Figures. You're spreading fud. The genesis block calc has so many more functions than the default most of the newbies in this forum are concentrating on (or those currently attempting to scare people).

For the default calculations to transpire over time the network would have to continuously double in a linear fashion time and time again. Impossible. Never going to happen.

Say 3,000 units are shipped in Oct, that would require 6,000 in November, the 12,000 in December, then 24,000 come Jan, 48,000 in February, 96,000 in March, 192,000 units delivered in April, 384,000 units in may, 768,000 units in June.

Can you honestly see this as even remotely realistic?!? It's ridiculous.

Knc, and whoever else are never going to manufacture and sell that many devices. Sure you can 'scale production' to a few thousand a month, and i've chosen 3,000 as an achievable figure, but the doubling, and doubling, and doubling. There's some seriously naive people in this forum.

I actually wrote to the Genesis Block and asked them to address this. I suggested they allow us to enter achievable figures of prouction for various manufacturers, and the dates by which those products are likely to be introduced to give more realistic scenarios, which they like, as it's the most sensible way to approach this, and they agreed, they like the idea.

In the mean time there's a constant increase per month option (MM) which can be used instead of the nutty (%) that is there by default. I may even write up a tutorial as people seem reluctant to play with the calc as it's quite useful if you know how to use it properly, which apparently a significant percentage of this forum can't. It's got to the point where it's just laughable and it's being used purposely to scare away small miners, which in turn will effect the distribution of the network. It's just beyond comprehension how the majority of people in this forum think a compounded increase in network harhrate is feasible over the long term!!

Certainly in this period of transition as GPU farms dies out and ASICs are introduced there are solid doubles of network over time, but if you think KnC, or Cointerra will be able to manufacture in excess of 5,000 units a month you're a complete idiot.

Can you do some calculations with your estimations for Sep, Oct, Nov, Dec? Including all possible vendors.
Interesting to see the results!
Thanks.

I've requested the Genesis Block adds this feature. it will be way more realistic, and a lot more fun strategically.

[jelin1984]

Knc will be at best scenario delivered the first machines at middle of October
I think that of course will be sometime at end of october
Because knc have to
Realize chip
Do pcb test with chip
Write code
And at best scenario these will take a month from the time that they will have the chip

[SirWizz]

I'm totally ROFL and LMAO at the same time. Promises.

I don't think Cointerra is raising the funds they need to launch in December either.  They seem to need non-recourse pre-order payments.

In an interview with Anandtech recently they dodged the question that asked whether BFL will sport THEIR chip on the Monarch. That would probably be the only way BFL can actually deliver anything but it would also mean Cointerra can probably raise the funds needed if BFL invested in them.

[bbxx]

the truth is if you will not make roi in next 2-3 months you are at loss.

so now you've changed your mind, haven't you?

b/c a few post above, you stated:

knc miners are not profitable. deal with it.

am I missing something obvious ?

yes, you are missing that you could make roi with other hardware...