Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[adamstgBit]

long term housing can only go up... and even if thats not true, consider your options, throwing away money on rent?

But everybody pays rent.  You either pay it to yourself (in lieu of the money you would receive from a tenant), or you pay it to a landlord.  In an efficient market, it shouldn't really make a difference whether you buy or rent.  The fact that it has made a difference (and a huge difference at that) shows how out of whack the housing market has become over the last few decades.

I also don't think it's true that long term housing can only go up. Shiller has over a century of evidence to refute this:



I think the statement "housing is a good investment" is a myth that started with the baby boomer generation because this is the only generation that the statement has been unequivocally true for.  

if i rent for 25years i end with nothing.
if i buy and pay mortgage for 25years i end with a house.

who in there right mind would rent?
who cares what the market is doing?
BUY BUY BUY!

[1713587223]

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[1713587223]

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[Peter R]

if i rent for 25years i end with nothing.
if i buy and pay mortgage for 25years i end with a house.

who in there right mind would rent?

For people who will spend all of their money in either case, it's definitely better to buy than to rent.  A mortgage is a forced savings plan. Building wealth while renting probably requires a different kind of discipline (but if it's cheaper to rent than to buy you will come out ahead by renting 25 years down the road all else being equal).  

[adamstgBit]

if i rent for 25years i end with nothing.
if i buy and pay mortgage for 25years i end with a house.

who in there right mind would rent?

If renting is a fraction of the cost of buying, you could use the extra money to enjoy a higher standard of living for those 25 years.

Maintaining a home can also be quite expensive (ignoring the purchase cost).

but living in a really expenvice house =  higher standard of living

[zeetubes]

I don't have any real estate but there are some nice condos around the world in some lovely locations that run about the same as buying a parking spot in big cities. But if rents in those places are also very low, it's still not very compelling for me to buy. I just spent a few weeks in Vancouver and that is one beautiful city. I wouldn't expect to see any big price increases there in the near future but if the chinese and taiwanese keep buying, prices probably won't come down too much either.

[marcus_of_augustus]

House prices have become monetised over the last 1-2 decades as the options for good savings vehicles (store of value) immune from inflation, tax grabs, regulations (and sundry other rent-seeking) have diminished. As has collectable art, vintage vehicles, antiques, etc. The fiat mis-management has manifest itself in innumerable ways that will only become fully visible when looked back from a stable economy at some point in the future.

Coralling everyone into stocks and bonds as the only "viable investments" via the pension system rorts and trying to lock them in there is backfiring massively when we look at how poorly the wider economies of the west are progressing.

A good form of money that can act better than housing out of the grasp of the rent seekers could add to the deflation in a housing price collapse as RE demonitises.

[Peter R]

...
A good form of money that can act better than housing out of the grasp of the rent seekers could add to the deflation in a housing price collapse as RE demonitises.

It's interesting to imagine what the equilibrium price levels of things like an apartment in New York or a house in Vancouver would be in a bitcoin economy.  Like you implied, the economic dislocations caused by monetary policy have monetized RE over the last 1-2 decades (and probably for much longer to a lesser extent), and it's impossible to know the true scale of these distortions.

If bitcoin can aid the movement towards disintermediation, decentralization, and deregulation, I don't see why the cost of commodity housing for the masses wouldn't fall significantly.  
 

[Torque]

if i rent for 25years i end with nothing.
if i buy and pay mortgage for 25years i end with a house.

who in there right mind would rent?

If renting is a fraction of the cost of buying, you could use the extra money to enjoy a higher standard of living for those 25 years.

Maintaining a home can also be quite expensive (ignoring the purchase cost).

but living in a really expenvice house =  higher standard of living

Adam, I'm starting to wonder exactly how old you are.  Because if you have lived life long enough (to at least age 40-ish), and have spent some amount of time in an "expensive" house, you would understand the realized absurdity of that statement.  When you experience it for yourself, you'll finally "get it".

[Peter R]

if i rent for 25years i end with nothing.
if i buy and pay mortgage for 25years i end with a house.

who in there right mind would rent?

If renting is a fraction of the cost of buying, you could use the extra money to enjoy a higher standard of living for those 25 years.

Maintaining a home can also be quite expensive (ignoring the purchase cost).

but living in a really expenvice house =  higher standard of living

Adam, I'm starting to wonder exactly how old you are.  Because if you have lived life long enough (to at least age 40-ish), and have spent some amount of time in an "expensive" house, you would understand the realized absurdity of that statement.  When you experience it for yourself, you'll finally "get it".

Careful, Adam's a tricky penguin:

[adamstgBit]

if i rent for 25years i end with nothing.
if i buy and pay mortgage for 25years i end with a house.

who in there right mind would rent?

If renting is a fraction of the cost of buying, you could use the extra money to enjoy a higher standard of living for those 25 years.

Maintaining a home can also be quite expensive (ignoring the purchase cost).

but living in a really expenvice house =  higher standard of living

Adam, I'm starting to wonder exactly how old you are.  Because if you have lived life long enough (to at least age 40-ish), and have spent some amount of time in an "expensive" house, you would understand the realized absurdity of that statement.  When you experience it for yourself, you'll finally "get it".

i have a tiny condo

wana trade?

i want to "get it"

BS a nice house doesn't improve standard of living, BS

[NewLiberty]

The house you rent out = investment
The house you live in = consumption
If standard of living is a function of what one consumes, adam "gets it" already.

[adamstgBit]

i'm moving up next year, and i wont have to sell any bitcoins, can't wait!

[cypherdoc]

Buying a home at any time in the last 50 years would've been a good move except in years 2007, 2008:

www.census.gov/const/uspriceann.pdf

My father in law is a multi millionaire having bought primarily commercial real estate starting back then in LA.  Now his kids get a handsome annuity check monthly. It's amazing how long these trends keep going.

[cypherdoc]

https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/503760154790465536

[cypherdoc]

gold futures slowly descending tonite.

[Adrian-x]

long term housing can only go up... and even if thats not true, consider your options, throwing away money on rent?

But everybody pays rent.  You either pay it to yourself (in lieu of the money you would receive from a tenant), or you pay it to a landlord.  In an efficient market, it shouldn't really make a difference whether you buy or rent.  The fact that it has made a difference (and a huge difference at that) shows how out of whack the housing market has become over the last few decades.

I also don't think it's true that long term housing can only go up. Shiller has over a century of evidence to refute this:



I think the statement "housing is a good investment" is a myth that started with the baby boomer generation because this is the only generation that the statement has been unequivocally true for.  

if i rent for 25years i end with nothing.
if i buy and pay mortgage for 25years i end with a house.

who in there right mind would rent?
who cares what the market is doing?
BUY BUY BUY!

The market is screwed up look at what is happening in the UK, home owners are getting tax payer subsidized grants from government - if you don't own property you are subsidizing property owners as a tax payer.

It is happening here in Canada too, it's just hidden in inflation and demand is somewhat controlled by the fact there are few developed cities.

It's crazy rents here are as expensive as mortgages and subject to inflation - to which mortgage happen to be inflation proof.

In effect the housing market is eating monetary inflation and the productive people of the world are servicing that  inflated debt money.

But if you could find rent cheaper than a mortgage and you invested the difference in Bitcoin I'd say. RENT and buy Bitcoin.

But then I am an Outlier, and to date most think I'm a nut job and just stupid not getting in on the property boom.

[NewLiberty]

Government has an interest in people owning property.  It fosters docility, because they are bound to geography they can always take it and you can't take it with you if you leave.  It is the safest asset for them for you to invest in.

[cypherdoc]

Government has an interest in people owning property.  It fosters docility, because they are bound to geography they can always take it and you can't take it with you if you leave.  It is the safest asset for them for you to invest in.

You forgot property taxes.

One never truly owns the land or the dwelling. I  paid off my home years ago yet I still fork over huge amounts.

[sidhujag]

Government has an interest in people owning property.  It fosters docility, because they are bound to geography they can always take it and you can't take it with you if you leave.  It is the safest asset for them for you to invest in.

You forgot property taxes.

One never truly owns the land or the dwelling. I  paid off my home years ago yet I still fork over huge amounts.

I think there is a clause where under the military act they can always just "take your land" for the "good of the country" at no cost. So yea you never really own it, they just make you feel like you do and every pea brain out there who doesnt think critically does think they really own it so society as a whole understands it as the be all end all asset to own, especially as shit hits the fan because people need to eat and need shelter. On the other end when shit really does hit the fan people wont care about eating the same and sheltering themselves in the same way.

[rpietila]

Monero will possibly be the thing that ushers in the Mark of the Beast, because it truly is an unconfiscable asset. That people opt out from the ultimate total enslavement plan of the world government, and happily use Moneros, pisses the controllers so much in the eye, that they actually manage to enact death penalty for all who would like to live their lives happily without their lame mark of the beast.

Read the rest of the story in Revelation: beautiful heroines, last-minute saves and surprising plot twists...

[Erdogan]

if i rent for 25years i end with nothing.
if i buy and pay mortgage for 25years i end with a house.

who in there right mind would rent?

For people who will spend all of their money in either case, it's definitely better to buy than to rent.  A mortgage is a forced savings plan. Building wealth while renting probably requires a different kind of discipline (but if it's cheaper to rent than to buy you will come out ahead by renting 25 years down the road all else being equal).  

It is a forced savings plan - but when you know this, and refinance your house every year to take out that saving to use on cars and vacations - you do not have a house in the end.