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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3039464 times)
r3animation
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October 11, 2013, 09:36:43 AM
 #14821

Cypherdoc - FUDcaster General, coming to an unrelated thread near you very soon.

Actually if you look carefully, I never came into this thread to criticize or spread fud prior to now. That really doesn't make sense if I was trying to disrupt their business. In fact I was one of the first to congratulate them a couple of weeks ago after the demo video.

Buy yeah, you know what? I am a big protector of bitcoin in general and when I see any company screw up the economy after having collected so much money and behaved so arrogantly Imo,  I'll let them have it.

Did you let BFL, "have it" then?

Good point. No.

But the KNC warrior bunch was a one of a kind virulent bunch of trolls that tried to destroy Hashfast and my reputation based on nothing except to try and protect their investment.

They also kept this thread pushed up to the top for visibility.

Now things have gone terribly wrong.

Well what about Avalon then? They are currently doing a few bad things.
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October 11, 2013, 09:43:57 AM
Last edit: October 11, 2013, 10:35:07 AM by trepex
 #14822

I don't want to complain too much as I am a DAY1 customer that did receive one Saturn at home and another one
online hashing at the KnC datacenter. I also received my (first ?) bonus/compensation from KnC.
But I also thought I post this comparision (as reported by Bitminter):


http://postimg.org/image/82x69elyj/

My Saturn unit at home runs 0.93, case closed (but optimized the flaps/wings inside the case = bent them to not disturb the airflow)
and uses 270W (at 230V).

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October 11, 2013, 09:53:39 AM
 #14823

I think the interesting point that hasn't been raised yet (as far as I've seen in this epic thread) is how KNC have binned their chips, if at all. BFL have 2 chips per Jalapeno and each can be (and usually seems to be) of a different quality in terms of hash rate and they must manually balance which chips get put on which board to achieve the advertised hashrate. Bigger boards have way more chips and it then becomes a classic partitioning problem.

Given that a Jupiter has only 4 chips, each of which must be of a different quality (bin) how are they choosing which chips go in which box? Pure lottery or an undisclosed system? I understand that each chip has many cores and the firmware is attempting to disable bad cores in an effort to manage the binning at runtime, but the variance in the aggregate chip hashrates shown by people on this thread show that this strategy isn't yet working as intended.

Simple question: KNC are you speed testing each chip/board before placing it in a box?

Second question: What is the minimum guaranteed hashrate of a Jupiter?


"How are you justifying these as fair use?  They are clearly and unequivocally a copyright violation."
"I really want to know how you justify that under the fair use doctrine?  It does not conform to a single point of fair use."
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October 11, 2013, 09:55:00 AM
 #14824

or maybe they should of gave a miner to the designer of bfgminer/cgminer...

screw that ....put them both on a plane....with "agreeable blondes" ....fly them to Sweden work them like slave pay them well....they can keep the blondes


(hey just saying for coders you could run the world on software.....maybe that's how google does it/ ... with this method)

but truthfully a plane ride accomodations and 'good pay' would more then make it self up with the miner software all buffed up and shiny imho

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Puppet
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October 11, 2013, 09:58:01 AM
 #14825

I think the interesting point that hasn't been raised yet (as far as I've seen in this epic thread) is how KNC have binned their chips, if at all. BFL have 2 chips per Jalapeno and each can be (and usually seems to be) of a different quality in terms of hash rate and they must manually balance which chips get put on which board to achieve the advertised hashrate. Bigger boards have way more chips and it then becomes a classic partitioning problem.

Very good point, AFAIK, the chips are currently not binned at all. Not even tested for functioning (neither wafer probing or final chip testing) before being soldered on the PCB. Thats a huge mistake IMO, one that was pointed out months ago. They could be testing/binning the completed modules, but Ive not heard a word on that.
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October 11, 2013, 10:02:39 AM
 #14826

WELL this is kinda off topic..but in regards to the KNC miner issues...we may be complaining about a brush fire in back and are unaware that over the hill ROME is burning

not good imho

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/10/11/payments-company-dwolla-abruptly-announces-the-closure-of-its-bitcoin-service/

ie dwolla-abruptly-announces-the-closure-of-its-bitcoin-service



er ...where the heck did I put my fiddle?


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The Avenger
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October 11, 2013, 10:02:53 AM
Last edit: October 11, 2013, 10:17:38 AM by The Avenger
 #14827

Second question: What is the minimum guaranteed hashrate of a Jupiter?

As advertised:
"550+ Gh/s per device"

(from https://www.kncminer.com/categories/miners)

They could worm out of it by saying that this is projected hashrate for November delivery, but remember the launch video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFOcI8nK2xI which is currently linked on the front page of their website. This is what they are claiming they are shipping "The actual hashing performance" to quote Sam. And "It's not 400GH/s". "It's a 500 machine"

Notice the massive X through the 400GH/s.



So forget 400GH/s.

Anything less than the 500GH/s and they are misrepresenting, which I'm fairly sure would be a criminal offence.

"I am not The Avenger"
1AthxGvreWbkmtTXed6EQfjXMXXdSG7dD6
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October 11, 2013, 10:06:05 AM
 #14828

Second question: What is the minimum guaranteed hashrate of a Jupiter?

As advertised:
"550+ Gh/s per device"

(from https://www.kncminer.com/categories/miners)

Anything less than that and they are misrepresenting, which I'm fairly sure would be a criminal offence.


yeah they would have probably been "golden" if they simply said we have 'stock units" that will do 400gh ....we have some experimental mods that look promising that have gotten as much as 550gh depending on the quality of your chips" we will make this available to all to play with....but in an effort to get the units out the door at this time we stand by the 400gh or 150gh more then we originally thought in April......we will have a place on the forums for these "experimental upgrades" all are welcome to try asap.


its all on how you "present stuff" imho

my 2c worth

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sickpig
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October 11, 2013, 10:07:44 AM
 #14829

I don't want to complain too much as I am a DAY1 customer that did receive one Saturn at home and another one
online hashing at the KnC datacenter. I also received my (first ?) bonus/compensation from KnC.
But I also thought I post this comparision (as reported by Bitminter):


http://postimg.org/image/82x69elyj/


bad!

If I were in your shoes I would try bertmod. it' not a real fw upgrade, it doesn't require a reboot, it just replace the status web page with a new
one with a lot of more info. (see: http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/6183-bertmod-0-2-unofficial-firmware-mod-feedback-thread)
if you think it's too risky... the .bin file is just a tar.gz, extract it, copy asic_status.pl on your miner and then run:

Code:
perl ./asic_status.pl > status.html



My Saturn unit at home runs 0.93, case closed (but optimized the flaps/wings inside the case = bent them to not disturb the airflow)
and uses 270W (at 230V).

do you mind to up a pic of your internal airflow optimization?

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October 11, 2013, 10:33:10 AM
 #14830

do you mind to up a pic of your internal airflow optimization?
Sure.
This picture was taken with an iphone through the closed case, sorry for the bad quality.
I don't want to open my case at the moment.


http://s14.postimg.org/tl4834ak1/Photo_11_10_13_12_26_23.jpg

Remember, it makes only sense for Saturns. Those flaps/wings (how would a native speaker call them?)
make much sense for a Jupiter!

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October 11, 2013, 10:44:22 AM
 #14831

do you mind to up a pic of your internal airflow optimization?
Sure.
This picture was taken with an iphone through the closed case, sorry for the bad quality.
I don't want to open my case at the moment.

http://s14.postimg.org/tl4834ak1/Photo_11_10_13_12_26_23.jpg

Remember, it makes only sense for Saturns. Those flaps/wings (how would a native speaker call them?)
make much sense for a Jupiter!

thanks for the pic !


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October 11, 2013, 11:24:14 AM
 #14832

I think the interesting point that hasn't been raised yet (as far as I've seen in this epic thread) is how KNC have binned their chips, if at all. BFL have 2 chips per Jalapeno and each can be (and usually seems to be) of a different quality in terms of hash rate and they must manually balance which chips get put on which board to achieve the advertised hashrate. Bigger boards have way more chips and it then becomes a classic partitioning problem.

Very good point, AFAIK, the chips are currently not binned at all. Not even tested for functioning (neither wafer probing or final chip testing) before being soldered on the PCB. Thats a huge mistake IMO, one that was pointed out months ago. They could be testing/binning the completed modules, but Ive not heard a word on that.


I just installed "bertmod 0.2.1 by uski" on my bad performing Jupiter (only 380 gh/s). And shows two Asci-chips (2 and 3) with lots of disabled cores:

ASIC_0
   Die_0: 48 cores on, 0 cores off
   Die_1: 48 cores on, 0 cores off
   Die_2: 46 on, 2 off
   Die_3: 46 on, 2 off   >> 98 %
ASIC_1
   Die_0: 48 on, 0 off
   Die_1: 48 on, 0 off
   Die_2: 48 on, 0 off
   Die_3: 48 on, 0 off  >> 100%
ASIC_2
   Die_0: 47 on, 1 off
   Die_1: 47 on, 1 off
   Die_2: 19 on, 29 off
   Die_3: 47 on, 1 off  >> 83%
ASIC_2
   Die_0: 48 on, 0 off
   Die_1: 48 on, 0 off
   Die_2: 3 on, 45 off
   Die_3: 48 on, 0 off  >> 76%

In total there are 81 cores off. That's about 10.5 % not working.... This while I'm only hashing 412 Ghs at the moment.  As 412 / 550 is about 25% less performance, I guess that there is quite some overhead in the FGPA management and Firmware to "steamline" a stable system (about 15% additional loss)....


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October 11, 2013, 11:28:34 AM
 #14833

Firmware: 0.94
PSU: Cougar S700
Cooling: default + 2x Noctua NF-S12B FLX




Any adivce on PSU?
700 plenty... you might try raise your diff a bit more...  like 250


Ok raised diff to 256, working fine with 260GH/s.

Just asking for PSU advice cause Cougar S700 is silver certified and my  saturn wasn't stable before connecting two Noctua Fans to PSU(sucking air out)
KnCs PSU specs say, PSU must be gold certified, maybe thats why i'm getting so much HW Errors?
I'm also looking foward to buy 2 upgrade modules next year so i need to change PSU anyway.
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October 11, 2013, 11:34:14 AM
 #14834

i think tha something wrong with firmware
which
cause CORE OFF

does anyone have any answer from knc from that problem?Huh
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October 11, 2013, 11:38:45 AM
 #14835

i think tha something wrong with firmware
which
cause CORE OFF

does anyone have any answer from knc from that problem?Huh

bitcoinorama had a prev post that knc thinks it is a firmware problem and are working on it look at past threads















 

 

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October 11, 2013, 11:41:28 AM
 #14836

Firmware: 0.94
PSU: Cougar S700
Cooling: default + 2x Noctua NF-S12B FLX




Any adivce on PSU?
700 plenty... you might try raise your diff a bit more...  like 250


Ok raised diff to 256, working fine with 260GH/s.

Just asking for PSU advice cause Cougar S700 is silver certified and my  saturn wasn't stable before connecting two Noctua Fans to PSU(sucking air out)
KnCs PSU specs say, PSU must be gold certified, maybe thats why i'm getting so much HW Errors?
I'm also looking foward to buy 2 upgrade modules next year so i need to change PSU anyway.


Silver, Gold, etc. refer to PSU internal efficiency.  Wouldn't have anything to do with H/W errors.

Suppose you have a 500 W power supply, a system that pulls 250 W at full load,  running at full load all the time.

Power drawn from the wall in an 8 hour day:

Basic - 312.5 W
Bronze - 304.9 W
Silver - 294.1 W
Gold - 277.8 W
Platinum - 271.7 W

That means that over basic you save 7.6 W/h with bronze, 18.4 W/h with silver, 34.7 W/h with gold, and 40.8 W/h with platinum. With 8 hours a day at full load that comes out to be 1.82 kWh, 4.42 kWh, 8.33 kWh, and 9.79 kWh saved per month with bronze, silver, gold, and platinum respectively.

At 0.15 per kWh, and a 24 hour day, you'd save $52.86 a year with a platinum supply versus a non-rated supply.
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October 11, 2013, 11:42:42 AM
 #14837

Code:
perl ./asic_status.pl > status.html

Thanks for the info about that bertmod.bin file being just a tar.gz!
I felt much better only running that perl script.

Hint to the development group: bring out a pure ASCII version!

So my home Saturn looks OK, I will check why there is a temperature and performance difference.



I have no access to the slower Saturn hosted at KnC. So I currently can not say anything about
the temperature and disabled cores about that one.

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October 11, 2013, 11:45:01 AM
 #14838

AND, why some ppls hosted rigs have been pointed to provide KNCs wallet with coins?Huh

Source? Otherwise don't spread FUD.

I am actually glad I have a late hosted order. Hopefully all the kinks have been ironed out by then. Tongue

All early orders (if they did their pre-purchase research properly) basically signed up to be guinea pigs in return for a certain probability that everything worked perfectly from the start.

And as anyone working with IT knows, the chances of that are minimal (enter the famous Murphy's Law). The fact that KnC managed to have a product that is working over the initial spec in at least 80% of the times on their first try is monumental.

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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October 11, 2013, 11:51:41 AM
 #14839

^Yeah, 550+ yeah, my ass... I am hosted and stuck at 100 average....
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October 11, 2013, 11:53:09 AM
 #14840

AND, why some ppls hosted rigs have been pointed to provide KNCs wallet with coins?Huh

Source? Otherwise don't spread FUD.

I am actually glad I have a late hosted order. Hopefully all the kinks have been ironed out by then. Tongue

All early orders (if they did their pre-purchase research properly) basically signed up to be guinea pigs in return for a certain probability that everything worked perfectly from the start.

And as anyone working with IT knows, the chances of that are minimal (enter the famous Murphy's Law). The fact that KnC managed to have a product that is working over the initial spec in at least 80% of the times on their first try is monumental.

please keep up.

im not about to go sifting through thousands of posts just to reiterate what more than one HOSTED miner has already reported.

knc may well have broken some tech records but facts are facts, just because you have not read them does not make them irrelevant.

and there are PLENTY of early orders yet to arrive, in fact it seems we (they) have stalled out at around 2000.

do you require sauce with that also to make it less 'FUDdy'

E2A - thanks for not ignoring 1 of my several questions, though i wasnt really asking you its nice to not be ignored.

i half agree with the later orders maybe having the kinks ironed out - the other half of me thinks that maybe all the good chips will be used in house while we end up with the dregs...



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