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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3039464 times)
Paladin69
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October 12, 2013, 03:10:19 PM
 #15281

If I was an "Angel Investor" in CoinTerra I'd be scared shitless right now.  KnC & HashFast are going to obliterate the difficulty.  Amazing that HashFast is offering up to 400% more hardware to people.  I was hoping KnC was going to naturally do that but since they are pulling VRM's off their boards I don't think their stuff can be future proofed as easily through firmware.

OrSOC pumps those boards out quickly.  It would be nice if KnC could offer the same thing as HashFast.

Personally, I hope HashFast fails.  This is looking scary.

I feel really sorry for BFL people still waiting on 65nm and those invested in the Monarch.
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October 12, 2013, 03:12:31 PM
 #15282

Will that take some heat off the PSU to cool it down some?

Find out. Many (though mostly older) PSU's need a minimum load on the 5v or they dont regulate properly. This can cause severe issues, like high fluctuations on the 12V.
Just connect a cdrom drive, light bulb, hdd or whatever to put a minimum load on the 5V and see if it makes a difference. If it doesnt help, its not going to hurt either.

Steady the 3.3v Rail

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JUMP-START-EPS-ATX-24-PIN-POWER-SUPPLY-WITHOUT-A-MOTHERBOARD-MADE-IN-USA-/251029042274?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a727f3462

Does that do a better job or equivalent than plugging a hard drive in?
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October 12, 2013, 03:16:30 PM
 #15283

If I was an "Angel Investor" in CoinTerra I'd be scared shitless right now.  KnC & HashFast are going to obliterate the difficulty.  Amazing that HashFast is offering up to 400% more hardware to people.  I was hoping KnC was going to naturally do that but since they are pulling VRM's off their boards I don't think their stuff can be future proofed as easily through firmware.

OrSOC pumps those boards out quickly.  It would be nice if KnC could offer the same thing as HashFast.

Personally, I hope HashFast fails.  This is looking scary.

I feel really sorry for BFL people still waiting on 65nm and those invested in the Monarch.
I hope so, too... but because of the incredible douche-nicity of their mouthpiece.

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October 12, 2013, 03:17:16 PM
Last edit: October 12, 2013, 03:28:35 PM by Paladin69
 #15284

There's a very good chance the 8 VRM boards will be able to overclock / boost performance FAR beyond the 4 VRM boards.

These are not thermally limited as-is on 0.95.  If they are limited, they're limited by VRM current or perhaps decoupling capacitance or other

Prepare for further shitstorms, anyone with a 4 VRM board will be like a cripple trying to keep up against Usain bolt

Oh and those VRM modules have the board level connections as BGA-style underneath the PCB.  So you're not adding any components yourself!  So go fuck yourself, everyone who doesn't have a reflow oven


If you want better performance out of having 8 VRM's over 4, you will have to code it yourself.  I highly doubt KnC is going to favor the earliest adopters who have 8.  This place would become a bloodbath otherwise.

I was hopeful that maybe these things could be future-proofed for the next couple of months and pushed to 700-800GH with ADHD Marcus and his love for tweaking.

I'm not going to play armchair engineer.  I think if they would've been useful to leave on, they would have.  I don't think this is about saving money on those tiny parts that are probably worth pennies.
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October 12, 2013, 03:18:49 PM
 #15285

I think I'll be in the positive if the miner can run stable and solidly for the next 3 months.

Or if nothing goes on fire Tongue Roll Eyes


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October 12, 2013, 03:25:55 PM
 #15286

After apply 0.95 update and hit reboot button at the end, my Jupiter become unreachable. I`ve trying to reboots, resets everything and nothing help(I unplug all PCI-e before doing this). Still no answer from CS they dont even pick up the phone.
you were never instructed to unplug the pci plugs before resetting...thats why its not working...  lol... it's supposed to be done with the power ON
I just hope you didnt unplug the pci plugs with the unit on, you could easily fry a cap

Offcouse not! The board+bbb was made to work independent without any asics modules. Every one know that without any asics attached board continue to work and can be pinging and webing without any problem. I remove cables to avoid fire on board cos of my retrying attempts.

I see.  So, if you remove the ASIC modules, leave the PCIE-6 connectors unplugged and attach only the 4 pin molex (although both connectors are likely sold by molex but the reference seems to be in vogue) and power up, one can perform an upgrade - or is the 12v via molex segregated from the 12v PCIE-6 12volts and/or does that potential segregation even matter?  The ASIC modules require the 12v.  If ASIC 12 volts is segregated from the 4 pin molex 12 v then one could upgrade with ASICs down with only the 4 pin molex connected and not removing the ASIC modules.
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October 12, 2013, 03:31:49 PM
 #15287

Will that take some heat off the PSU to cool it down some?

Find out. Many (though mostly older) PSU's need a minimum load on the 5v or they dont regulate properly. This can cause severe issues, like high fluctuations on the 12V.
Just connect a cdrom drive, light bulb, hdd or whatever to put a minimum load on the 5V and see if it makes a difference. If it doesnt help, its not going to hurt either.

Steady the 3.3v Rail

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JUMP-START-EPS-ATX-24-PIN-POWER-SUPPLY-WITHOUT-A-MOTHERBOARD-MADE-IN-USA-/251029042274?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a727f3462

I like that. 

Maybe an entrepreneur can build and sell on ebay a motherboard connector with resistive loads and the make-voltage-available-pins-shorted jumper that will load the 5 volts and have a fast acting metal oxide varistor on the 12v preventing it from going over 14v.
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October 12, 2013, 03:34:25 PM
 #15288

If I was an "Angel Investor" in CoinTerra I'd be scared shitless right now.  KnC & HashFast are going to obliterate the difficulty.  Amazing that HashFast is offering up to 400% more hardware to people.  I was hoping KnC was going to naturally do that but since they are pulling VRM's off their boards I don't think their stuff can be future proofed as easily through firmware.

OrSOC pumps those boards out quickly.  It would be nice if KnC could offer the same thing as HashFast.

Personally, I hope HashFast fails.  This is looking scary.

I feel really sorry for BFL people still waiting on 65nm and those invested in the Monarch.
I hope so, too... but because of the incredible douche-nicity of their mouthpiece.


      douche-nicity    - I love it! bitcoining a word.
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October 12, 2013, 03:39:39 PM
 #15289

If I was an "Angel Investor" in CoinTerra I'd be scared shitless right now.  KnC & HashFast are going to obliterate the difficulty.  Amazing that HashFast is offering up to 400% more hardware to people.  I was hoping KnC was going to naturally do that but since they are pulling VRM's off their boards I don't think their stuff can be future proofed as easily through firmware.

OrSOC pumps those boards out quickly.  It would be nice if KnC could offer the same thing as HashFast.

Personally, I hope HashFast fails.  This is looking scary.

I feel really sorry for BFL people still waiting on 65nm and those invested in the Monarch.
I hope so, too... but because of the incredible douche-nicity of their mouthpiece.


That one guy that looks like he took his cellphone pic in his bathroom does remind me of BFL_Josh quite a bit.  Maybe the announcements of miner protection and giant factories are there to stave off people jumping ship?  They do seem to be over-promising.  Reminds me of BFL showing off their "high-speed" machines in 2012.  I think the Ninja-Queen could've put ASIC's out the door faster than those things.
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October 12, 2013, 04:07:49 PM
 #15290

hey most of us here I think hope it all works out with hashfast..but I too think you will get a visit from "Murphy" don't ya know....(hey I lost money to bfl and put money into knc...only so much $$$ I can throw at this stuff) ...anyway hope hashfast follows thru at a high level .....the more that get their crap together customer service/output on time wise the better...I swear if there are too many more BFL's out there..we will all run to Litecoin...more noise...more $$ from gpu stuff but heck of a lot less drama imho...

Careful what you wish for. If hashfast delivers on spec, in time and in volume, the impact on difficulty will make it about as painful as getting BFL'ed. Thats the whole point with these preorder asic miners, either you get screwed because the vendors do deliver, or you get screwed because they dont. The simple reality is that the money already plunged on preorders in all likely hood exceeds total mining revenue for the next 6 months.  The only way to have any hope of breaking even is buying from a company that does deliver, while the rest doesnt.

I have not bought any asic, nor do I intend to, but if I were a KnC customer, I would sure wish for HF's chip to come out with a major unfixable flaw in its design.

you are probably correct I am a "savant" in doing the wrong thing at the wrong timing in the ASIC world of purchasing and/or lack of delivery...so yeah...do the opposite of me ...is the true plan on thriving with bitcoin....(hey any others on here we should start a club)

not real big on this 'savant' gift  by the by

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Searing
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October 12, 2013, 04:15:45 PM
 #15291

Will that take some heat off the PSU to cool it down some?

Find out. Many (though mostly older) PSU's need a minimum load on the 5v or they dont regulate properly. This can cause severe issues, like high fluctuations on the 12V.
Just connect a cdrom drive, light bulb, hdd or whatever to put a minimum load on the 5V and see if it makes a difference. If it doesnt help, its not going to hurt either.

Steady the 3.3v Rail

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JUMP-START-EPS-ATX-24-PIN-POWER-SUPPLY-WITHOUT-A-MOTHERBOARD-MADE-IN-USA-/251029042274?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a727f3462


what do you all think is this iittle add a 3.3v load device on  the power on your knc miner power supply really gonna help any?

or is it smoke/mirrors..?

need to get one anyway if this seems better then making my own ...what the heck I can spring 9 bucks for 2 of them

(alas I know zip about this just trying to cover my butt in that they sent me 11k of stuff with no SWITCHES.....jeez...I must be outta my frigging mind btc/asic endeavors!)


Searing














 

 

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October 12, 2013, 04:20:34 PM
 #15292

Amazing that HashFast is offering up to 400% more hardware to people.  

Not that amazing once you realize all you get is a chip (which costs them <$50) and you still need a module/controller board for which they can charge whatever the heck they want,  if they dont opensource the interfaces. Even less amazing if you consider they will only give it after 3 months, and without saying if its before 24 months. So all they promise is something which by itself is worthless at some unknown point in the future. Yeay. Its like BFL sending out some extra bare asics for their jalapeno's customers next summer; would that make you happy?
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October 12, 2013, 04:22:49 PM
 #15293

hey most of us here I think hope it all works out with hashfast..but I too think you will get a visit from "Murphy" don't ya know....(hey I lost money to bfl and put money into knc...only so much $$$ I can throw at this stuff) ...anyway hope hashfast follows thru at a high level .....the more that get their crap together customer service/output on time wise the better...I swear if there are too many more BFL's out there..we will all run to Litecoin...more noise...more $$ from gpu stuff but heck of a lot less drama imho...

Careful what you wish for. If hashfast delivers on spec, in time and in volume, the impact on difficulty will make it about as painful as getting BFL'ed. Thats the whole point with these preorder asic miners, either you get screwed because the vendors do deliver, or you get screwed because they dont. The simple reality is that the money already plunged on preorders in all likely hood exceeds total mining revenue for the next 6 months.  The only way to have any hope of breaking even is buying from a company that does deliver, while the rest doesnt.

I have not bought any asic, nor do I intend to, but if I were a KnC customer, I would sure wish for HF's chip to come out with a major unfixable flaw in its design.

you are probably correct I am a "savant" in doing the wrong thing at the wrong timing in the ASIC world of purchasing and/or lack of delivery...so yeah...do the opposite of me ...is the true plan on thriving with bitcoin....(hey any others on here we should start a club)

not real big on this 'savant' gift  by the by

Searing

The worst thing for miners was when the spot price went to $266 so soon.  It alerted the world.  Dollar signs formed in the eyes of those that could develop ASIC chips.  I'm willing to bet you got involved around March/April Searing?  So many other people did too.

I got heavily involved in the middle of 2012 when I believed the Big Fucking Lie could deliver near the end of 2012 when most still didn't know much about BTC.

I probably made a mistake investing in KnC.  Oh well, throwing money in the garbage is fun.
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October 12, 2013, 04:28:10 PM
Last edit: October 12, 2013, 04:40:13 PM by Paladin69
 #15294

Amazing that HashFast is offering up to 400% more hardware to people.  

Not that amazing once you realize all you get is a chip (which costs them <$50) and you still need a module/controller board for which they can charge whatever the heck they want,  if they dont opensource the interfaces. Even less amazing if you consider they will only give it after 3 months, and without saying if its before 24 months. So all they promise is something which by itself is worthless at some unknown point in the future. Yeay. Its like BFL sending out some extra bare asics for their jalapeno's customers next summer; would that make you happy?

Yeah the difficulty is going to run away from everyone for sure.  I'm not even sure why KnC bothers to talk about "next-gen".  People are going to be very upset around January/February.  At the rate of difficulty increase, even an imaginary 70TH ASIC machine in October of 2014 will have a shelf life of less than one month.

I hate sounding like I'm spreading FUD, but I think people would be much better off getting November refunds and investing in BTC directly.  It's nice that KnC is the only company that does allow refunds.  It will probably be worth taking advantage of.  The fact that they allow refunds tells you they have more than enough orders to not care when people do.  Their parts probably are dirt cheap, like you say.  The initial NRE was a drop in the bucket in terms of how loaded with cash they are.  Like BFL and every other ASIC developer, that was all they cared about.

Internally companies know this whole thing falls apart some time around the middle of 2014 where nobody can chase the difficulty then.  They will try for one more round of "next-gen" before people realize this is a mug's game.
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October 12, 2013, 04:30:23 PM
 #15295

Could it be due to only having a load on the 12V rail? Havent read the entire thread, but assuming your mining rig didnt go up in flames yet, perhaps you can try connecting a hdd to the PSU to put some load on the 5V.
(note: AFAIK, most 3.5" desktop drives use both 12v and 5v, but to be sure, if you have a 2.5" drive or something else that uses 5V, use that).

Most high end modern PSU no longer need any load on the 5V or 3.3V rails.   They rectify the AC and produce all the output on the 12V rail.  If their is some 5V or 3.3V load it isn't produced by AC power they just use low cost solid state DC to DC conversion to convert some of the 12V power into 5V or 3.3V power.

Honestly there is absolutely no reason that ATX isn't updated to be 12V only.  Nothing runs at 5V or 3.3V anyways.   It sure would make the connectors and PSU design simpler and more efficient. 
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October 12, 2013, 04:33:20 PM
 #15296

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes link=topic=170332.msg3325880#msg33258
Most high end modern PSU no longer need any load on the 5V or 3.3V rails.  

Yeah but most =/= all and that PSU is a few years old. Certainly worth trying.
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October 12, 2013, 04:35:11 PM
 #15297

Amazing that HashFast is offering up to 400% more hardware to people. 

Not that amazing once you realize all you get is a chip (which costs them <$50) and you still need a module/controller board for which they can charge whatever the heck they want,  if they dont opensource the interfaces.

It doesn't matter what it costs them it matters what the market price of 1 GH in chips is worth.  At $1 per GH market prices 1,600 GH/s is $1,600.   HF has indicated they will have third party board designers.  They might screw over their customers but that would be insanely stupid.  Future versions likely won't have an MPP and if they are as efficient as they say they are they can go very low on prices over the next year.  Not saying they won't "scam" their customers but it would be making a few quick bucks over a cut of the entire market for the near future.
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October 12, 2013, 04:35:44 PM
 #15298

Could it be due to only having a load on the 12V rail? Havent read the entire thread, but assuming your mining rig didnt go up in flames yet, perhaps you can try connecting a hdd to the PSU to put some load on the 5V.
(note: AFAIK, most 3.5" desktop drives use both 12v and 5v, but to be sure, if you have a 2.5" drive or something else that uses 5V, use that).

Most high end modern PSU no longer need any load on the 5V or 3.3V rails.   They rectify the AC and produce all the output on the 12V rail.  If their is some 5V or 3.3V load it isn't produced by AC power they just use low cost solid state DC to DC conversion to convert some of the 12V power into 5V or 3.3V power.

Honestly there is absolutely no reason that ATX isn't updated to be 12V only.  Nothing runs at 5V or 3.3V anyways.   It sure would make the connectors and PSU design simpler and more efficient. 

Hey D&D, now that you mention it, there is actually a reason to run something at 5V. Would you mind giving your opinion here? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=309687.0
Much appreciated for my hardware power supply "issue".
Anyone feel free to chime in.

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October 12, 2013, 04:45:48 PM
 #15299

hey most of us here I think hope it all works out with hashfast..but I too think you will get a visit from "Murphy" don't ya know....(hey I lost money to bfl and put money into knc...only so much $$$ I can throw at this stuff) ...anyway hope hashfast follows thru at a high level .....the more that get their crap together customer service/output on time wise the better...I swear if there are too many more BFL's out there..we will all run to Litecoin...more noise...more $$ from gpu stuff but heck of a lot less drama imho...

Careful what you wish for. If hashfast delivers on spec, in time and in volume, the impact on difficulty will make it about as painful as getting BFL'ed. Thats the whole point with these preorder asic miners, either you get screwed because the vendors do deliver, or you get screwed because they dont. The simple reality is that the money already plunged on preorders in all likely hood exceeds total mining revenue for the next 6 months.  The only way to have any hope of breaking even is buying from a company that does deliver, while the rest doesnt.

I have not bought any asic, nor do I intend to, but if I were a KnC customer, I would sure wish for HF's chip to come out with a major unfixable flaw in its design.

you are probably correct I am a "savant" in doing the wrong thing at the wrong timing in the ASIC world of purchasing and/or lack of delivery...so yeah...do the opposite of me ...is the true plan on thriving with bitcoin....(hey any others on here we should start a club)

not real big on this 'savant' gift  by the by

Searing

The worst thing for miners was when the spot price went to $266 so soon.  It alerted the world.  Dollar signs formed in the eyes of those that could develop ASIC chips.  I'm willing to bet you got involved around March/April Searing?  So many other people did too.

I got heavily involved in the middle of 2012 when I believed the Big Fucking Lie could deliver near the end of 2012 when most still didn't know much about BTC.

I probably made a mistake investing in KnC.  Oh well, throwing money in the garbage is fun.



yep april 12th order left 65gh already upgraded (2 months ago forced to I thought update) 60gh to a monarh for 2k extra (dumb)....now I see that BFL is shipping 3 days of stuff a week and are on march 11th I think...my current theory is they just gave up even trying ...and are 'recommending' you xfer all your stuff to their GH hosting farm at 10.38gh available in FEB 2014 ...so my 3519 bucks I have left would be 339gh .....I'm stalling...figure I'd be better off getting the 6 units I have coming yet from them of the 65gh and just mine ALt sha256 coins in the future (hey its like gonna be 450watts)....my only hope is all the "outdated toys of toyland" will make their own 'asic island of lost toys" and pick a sha256 coin to mine out of  stubbornness and denial in thowing them in the river ...god knows there will be enough of us....in 6 months (denial all i'm good at these days) but NO 339gh to BFL I won't even get doorstops...if they manage to stay in business after this....i'll be surprised...but they running to full fledged cloud hosting imho asap or so it looks.

sorry off topic ...I do find it amusing that the guys with "line drawings of the miners" on their web site have come thru..just goes to show learn from my mistakes only go KNC imho intent means a lot they still may mess up..but intend and circumstances matter ....silly hobby this btc is (see denial in april is was a business now its a hobby..sigh)















 

 

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soy
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October 12, 2013, 05:01:52 PM
 #15300

Will that take some heat off the PSU to cool it down some?

Find out. Many (though mostly older) PSU's need a minimum load on the 5v or they dont regulate properly. This can cause severe issues, like high fluctuations on the 12V.
Just connect a cdrom drive, light bulb, hdd or whatever to put a minimum load on the 5V and see if it makes a difference. If it doesnt help, its not going to hurt either.

Steady the 3.3v Rail

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JUMP-START-EPS-ATX-24-PIN-POWER-SUPPLY-WITHOUT-A-MOTHERBOARD-MADE-IN-USA-/251029042274?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a727f3462


what do you all think is this iittle add a 3.3v load device on  the power on your knc miner power supply really gonna help any?

or is it smoke/mirrors..?

need to get one anyway if this seems better then making my own ...what the heck I can spring 9 bucks for 2 of them

(alas I know zip about this just trying to cover my butt in that they sent me 11k of stuff with no SWITCHES.....jeez...I must be outta my frigging mind btc/asic endeavors!)


Searing

Might be.  Without a motherboard in place one is making the supply fill a role for which it was not designed.  It very well could be that with the unconnected pins on the motherboard connector, except for the usually jumped pair, will see a voltage and some will retain that voltage.  The motherboard might present a resistive or partly resistive load to those pins that when otherwise using a jumper are left hanging.  When you turn off a computer power supply with a motherboard in place the resistive or partly resistive load will allow the voltage on those other pins to be drained.  Left hanging, a la jumpered pin pair, those other pins might have a voltage that remains after the supply is shut off.  Who's to say beside the power supply designer, that a voltage remaining on a 3.3v line doesn't cause a wrong startup the next time the power supply switch is thrown.  Perhaps a normal buildup of voltage on the 3.3v line has a role in shaping the slope of that current source building up the 12 vdc to its full voltage.  Perhaps if the voltage remains on the 3.3v line after the power supply shuts down, then when the supply restarts, its current ramp to bring up the 12 volts starts very high rather than low!  Then it happens so quick that it can't back off before a capacitor blows.
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