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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012254 times)
Bitcoinorama
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October 11, 2013, 06:44:00 PM
 #15021

Been away from the screen, as I was on this forum so late last night. Those who were around at that point know this. I've just been getting to grips and learning more about what components do what and when upon the board.

Been trying to catch up here, but am still confused as to the purpose of the opening of the casing and top loading of fans. It makes zero difference, it just appears to be a bizarre form of planking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planking_(fad)

The temps ascertained by the BertMod (great work that man), reveal the voltage regulator temps, and not the ASIC. The voltage regulators can handle in excess of 100 degrees Celsius - ambient (surrounding environment) - so blowing a fan on them is pointless.

Likewise the ASICs are barely above 50 degrees when i was playing with a laser temp gauge. You can actually touch the heatsink bracket above the ASICs and hold your finger there. The heatsink can dissipate above 320 Watts of heat, and is a totally OTT margin. So there are no heat issues whatsoever. The unit hashing at the Atlanta conference had everyone stating the device barely generates any heat. Those present are welcome to testify to this fact. It was running for several hours as verifiable via Eligius.

Some of the armchair engineering is amusing, but I'm the only one that's skimmed it, as previously stated this is all firmware issues. For those in despair that the whole world is falling apart and that they are entirely unprofessional; grow up, you've knowingly bought an unrefined product that is undergoing refinement. In effect a prototype revision and this was always the fact. You didn't want to wait, but at the same you can't expect blind perfection. If the margins did not exist, you wouldn't be seeing promised specs met. I'm not sugar coating, this is an indisputable truth, but that said you have nothing to fear, just be aware no one knew what these chips could actually do 10 days ago. The fact we've seen multiple instances of significantly +400 Gh/s demonstrates what you should be reaching, and shall be. It's only ever been firmware.

In standard product design the refinement between receiving chips in hand and consumer product in around 12-18 months, and not 24 hours. However, due to the nature of the reward being greater in Bitcoin - the earlier you can play with the kit, the greater the reward.

You all chose to take the route of a product that is shipped proven to achieve a declared spec, and have to accept that it will improve overtime.

As such one can only assume you'll be relieved to upgrade to 0.95, this includes the hosting facility...

I've seen what the next update is capable of. You'll have that to play with shortly. From what i've seen CGMiner may be asked to restart every now and then if performance begins to degrade over time. Then you'll have a further revision the otherside of the weekend. The freak 4 module boards sapping unnecessary wattage will also be rectified as well, but everyone should be happy hashing. Any inconsistencies, keep them posted. Feedback is useful, whinging is not. Wink

The blown caps appear to be linked to a particular type of PSU, safety in the HX850 is triggered, the reset involves removing ATX cabling and re-inserting it. When this happens the current from the power supply applied is too great, it does not gradually load as when usually switched on. The cap blows as a result. There has been a specialist from General Electric's (GE) Critical Power Division that has flown in from the States especially here the last couple of days working on determining what the fault is and how to best proceed, hence the silence until there is a definitive conclusion. He couldn't make it earlier due to the fact he was at a conference. I am not an expert from General Electric's Critical Power Division and as such can only convey what I've understood from a brief conversation, as it is more important these guys work together on this. There is nothing wrong with the board design from what he can see and it adheres to all the standard recommendations GE outlay. That part I did understand. The fact he is British helps too, no loss of translation by me there...

EDIT: I don't know if this applies soley to this particular Corsair PSU, but for sure as it is a popular one that has been causing it and the GE guy confirmed the reasoning behind it, it's best avoided. Also if you are super worried I think he said it takes like 30 seconds for the PSU to get this out of it's system before you can turn it on and off again without it delivering a high load. So maybe if your PSU does trip, just disconnect the PSU, reset the ATX cable without the miner attached, and run it without the miner attached for 30 seconds, before turning the PSU back off, attaching the miner and without the power supply switched on and then turn on again, just to get this freak load out of it's system. I will check again with GE's guy tomo when he has a moment to confirm this edit here makes sense. Although I won;t go out of my way to disturb him while he's busy testing kit.

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October 11, 2013, 06:45:23 PM
 #15022

FYI, my Jupiter day 1 customer 1-500 is running hosted since 2 days now at an underwhelming 100 GH/s average and my order still says PAID, never went to "processing" or anything else.
FYI, my Jupiter day 1 customer 1-500 is running hosted since 2 days now at an underwhelming 100 GH/s average and ...

Same problem here with a Saturn:



I created a topic at the KnC forum.
Id say that saturn needs to be cooled better... are you in their pool too?  difficulty level on it?


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FractionalReserve
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October 11, 2013, 06:54:32 PM
 #15023

The new asic bords with only 4 VRMs [which were designed to use 8] are using to much power. KNC will release a bug fix for this in next (0.95?) Firmware hopefully arriving in short (Today?)  A Jupiter in this Config will use app. 890W. So it can be difficult to start with a 850W ATX. (You can still run them with only 3 boards conected).

What happen to margins on margins.  The boards were designed to have 320A of DC regulators (which drop the 12V supply down to the 0.75V used by the chip).  Now if BFL cheaped out I could see that but KNC has talked for months and months and month about margins on margins so when they actually get to the finish line and start shipping products at the very last minute they decide to yank out all the margins and run the hardware at close to the theoretical limit and hope everything works.  

So the solution to an overheating and overloaded power system is to push the power system even harder.  To take 160A (which was designed to be 320A) of capacity and run it at 25% over the redline.  

So what is is this negative margins on negative margins now?

Quote
The VRMs are also running over spec with app. 50+ A current each! They probably won't burn, but if you can cool them extra until the new firmware is realeased, do it!!
 The Asics are tunning to hot (+70 deg C) as they get app, 0.9V instead of 0.7V as they are supposed to. Cool them as much as you can!!!  The Problem is due to the VRMs not working according to spec but KNC will be able to fix it with new firmware (we did our own patch for our miners yesterday).

How about just start shipping the proper 8 VRM design and offer replacements to affected customers (who you shipped underperforming units).

Quote
 Easiest fix to cool properly is to provide cool air, belo 20 deg C is a good idea. Open case + big fan will also work.

Yeah that seems like the solution.  Open case, giant fan, hardware running overspec, and power consumption through the roof.  Throw in the cost of high AC load to maintain 20 deg C cooling.  Too bad there is no simpler solution like I don't know ...shipping the product as designed, promised, and sold.

Quote
PS, this does not apply to 8 VRM asic boards. No worries here.

So wouldn't the best solution to ship the boards with 8 VRMS as you initially promised they would?


Hi, I see you quoted me from the KNC forum. Just to get thing straight, I am not from KNC!
We just run a huge bunch of Jupiters in our private mining op. We discovered the problems and let KNC now of them asap.

In the meantime we made our own mod where we adjusted the VRMs voltage offset (by software), the 4 VRM boards are running just as good as the 8 VRM boards and poerconsumtion at wall is below 550W.
All that is needed is the next FW uppdate that will fix this. I talked to KNC development (not support!!!) and they are really rushing this!

No need to ship with 8 vrms as there are no need for them, only need for correct FW! Don´t see any point for them to go back to 4 VRMs when it can be easily adjusted in software.

0.94 has a bug that shuts down parts of the ASICS but never restarts them, thats wy 0.94 performes badly, that will also be in the next FW update.

insuuficent cooling will cause HW errors and shut down cores => bad perfomance

The low performance on some ASICs even if cooling is sufficient comes from another problem they have regarding the internal ASIC communication. As I understand they are on a goood way to fix this. next FW will be better but there will still be more perfomance gains in future FW versions. now they are trying to rush out a 0.95 that will fix the above issues and hopefully give some performance gains and not only solve the above issues! We will se and we all hope for the better.
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October 11, 2013, 06:55:16 PM
 #15024

@Bitcoinorama


some info about slow shipping? why its so slow? and why is KnC silent about everything, i mean official status on website etc.





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October 11, 2013, 06:59:34 PM
 #15025

Quote
Hi, I see you quoted me from the KNC forum. Just to get thing straight, I am not from KNC!
We just run a huge bunch of Jupiters in our private mining op. We discovered the problems and let KNC now of them asap.

In the meantime we made our own mod where we adjusted the VRMs voltage offset (by software), the 4 VRM boards are running just as good as the 8 VRM boards and poerconsumtion at wall is below 550W.
All that is needed is the next FW uppdate that will fix this. I talked to KNC development (not support!!!) and they are really rushing this!

No need to ship with 8 vrms as there are no need for them, only need for correct FW! Don´t see any point for them to go back to 4 VRMs when it can be easily adjusted in software.

0.94 has a bug that shuts down parts of the ASICS but never restarts them, thats wy 0.94 performes badly, that will also be in the next FW update.

insuuficent cooling will cause HW errors and shut down cores => bad perfomance

The low performance on some ASICs even if cooling is sufficient comes from another problem they have regarding the internal ASIC communication. As I understand they are on a goood way to fix this. next FW will be better but there will still be more perfomance gains in future FW versions. now they are trying to rush out a 0.95 that will fix the above issues and hopefully give some performance gains and not only solve the above issues! We will se and we all hope for the better.

I'm running 0.94, and it enables/disables cores just fine... depending on the temps... and you say it's going to get better?  YEAH BABY!


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Bitcoinorama
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October 11, 2013, 07:01:31 PM
 #15026

@Bitcoinorama


some info about slow shipping? why its so slow? and why is KnC silent about everything, i mean official status on website etc.

As I said above you need feedback from multiple parties, once there is mutual agreed feedback from situations then something official can be said.

Common sense.

These are multiple issues, as to be expected one has to confirm, and then react, as and when they appear.

You'll be getting just that with the update momentarily.

The guy from GE flew in especially. The factory is no longer staffed by KnC. The manufacturing facility has taken over their role. KnC/ORSoC have concentrated on testing issues, refining and releasing patches, and hosting. So Sam and Andreas have given people a chance to ascertain complications and propose resolutions.

Now that is in hand you can be briefed on how this is moving forward for the following week ahead.

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October 11, 2013, 07:05:06 PM
 #15027

...
Thanks for the update. Please keep doing this daily!

Now about the sequence of orders, it seems that hosting orders are on halt, for example I have 280x and 281x and both are still on paid while higher numbers are already being processed. Both were paid within minutes after ordering. Hosting was ordered and paid later, but that shouldn't matter IMHO.

I am selling in stock OneStringMiner boards, based on the Bitfury chips. Have a look here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495536.0
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October 11, 2013, 07:06:35 PM
 #15028

So is there a confirmed "safe" brand of PSU to go with, or just anything but Corsair?
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October 11, 2013, 07:07:59 PM
 #15029

FYI, my Jupiter day 1 customer 1-500 is running hosted since 2 days now at an underwhelming 100 GH/s average and ...

Same problem here with a Saturn:



I created a topic at the KnC forum.

I'd guess the point was to get as many hosted machines running asap given the delays, then go back and optimize.  Still, squeaky wheel gets the oil.



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arch
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October 11, 2013, 07:08:37 PM
 #15030

No official announcement yet but firmware is already there Wink

https://www.kncminer.com/userfiles/file/kncminer-0.95.bin

Those who are brave!
Tigggger
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October 11, 2013, 07:10:40 PM
 #15031

No official announcement yet but firmware is already there Wink

https://www.kncminer.com/userfiles/file/kncminer-0.95.bin

Those who are brave!

must resist....must resist  Grin

WastedLTC
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October 11, 2013, 07:12:16 PM
 #15032

No official announcement yet but firmware is already there Wink

https://www.kncminer.com/userfiles/file/kncminer-0.95.bin

Those who are brave!

must resist....must resist  Grin

HAHA, who will be the first!?!?!
arch
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October 11, 2013, 07:12:27 PM
 #15033

Quote

All,

 

We have been shipping products for a while now and while everything has not gone perfect we thought it was time to provide a little update on out status of things.

 

So far the factory has produced about 700 products, while it seems a lot we were hoping for more by now,

This has been a very steep learning curve and we have adjusted the manufacturing process to be able to produce more boxes per day to try and catch up with the backlog.

 

We would also like to take this opportunity to say that we are aware of the following outstanding issues including but not limited to

 

Hosting environment delays,

Shipping delays,

Performance of some devices are not up to specifications,

Power supply’s causing issues damage to some boards.

Packaging and delivery issues.

 

 

We would like to state that we remain committed to improvement in all of these areas and more. We have all of our staff dedicated to fixing the above issues above anything else.

Our customer service department are working as hard as they can to keep up with all the customer requests and we would like to apologize for any delays our customers are facing while we make our way through these issues.

 

The good news is we have another firmware release today 0.95 This version is specifically aimed at the power consumption of our devices and again contains more stability fixes in the firmware, We have identified issues in the communication between the controller board and the ASIC modules which were causing some very bad performance in certain cases. we recomed that anyone having either power consumption issues or performace issues takes this patch. Please note that this patch will be automatically deployed to all hosting boxes in our DC.

 

The patch can be found here

 

www.kncminer.com/userfiles/file/ kncminer-0.95.bin

 

We do accept that things are not going as well as planned, We are however doing everything we possibly can to get things back on track.

 

Thanks

KnCMiner Team
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October 11, 2013, 07:13:22 PM
 #15034



Firmware 0.94, nice performing Saturn, 2 days without a reboot of CGMiner and average of 271Gh/s.
I don't even want to try 0.95 ...

My lucky BTC address : 1LoTTerY3WYbGxVRHvh8oDudDdTxFvvqWF
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October 11, 2013, 07:13:42 PM
 #15035

NEWS https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-49
FractionalReserve
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October 11, 2013, 07:16:09 PM
 #15036


Haha, I said soon.

Is this soon enough for you guys =)
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October 11, 2013, 07:18:33 PM
 #15037



Firmware 0.94, nice performing Saturn, 2 days without a reboot of CGMiner and average of 271Gh/s.
I don't even want to try 0.95 ...

if ain't broken don't fix it Tongue

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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October 11, 2013, 07:19:28 PM
 #15038


There goes Oct 15th. Ugh

Bitcoin OTC rating GPG ID: 3E7974A1 P2Pool statistics: p2pool.info
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October 11, 2013, 07:19:58 PM
 #15039


0.95 fixed it for me, thanks KNC Smiley went from 440 to 533. 20% HW error to 8-10% HW error

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October 11, 2013, 07:20:03 PM
 #15040

running .95 --  pushing over 600 at the moment.  i know that wont last but nice to see.
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