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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3009269 times)
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October 11, 2013, 04:17:24 PM
 #14961




Not sure but FractionalReserve posted this on KNC Forums www.kncminer.com

hopefully this fix is the real deal



Asic Bords with 4 VRMs - bug - cool properly until FW fix arrives!

Today, 04:07 PM


The new asic bords with only 4 VRMs are using to much power.

 KNC will release a bug fix for this in next (0.95?) Firmware hopefully arriving in short (Today?)

 A Jupiter in this Config will use app. 890W. So it can be difficult to start with a 850W ATX. (You can still run them with only 3 boards conected)

 The VRMs are also running over spec with app. 50+ A current each! They probably won't burn, but if you can cool them extra until the new firmware is realeased, do it!!
 The Asics are tunning to hot (+70 deg C) as they get app, 0.9V instead of 0.7V as they are supposed to. Cool them as much as you can!!!

 The Problem is due to the VRMs not working according to spec but KNC will be able to fix it with new firmware (we did our own patch for our miners yesterday).

 Easiest fix to cool properly is to provide cool air, belo 20 deg C is a good idea. Open case + big fan will also work.

 PS, this does not apply to 8 VRM asic boards. No worries here.



again found this on knc forums


hope if helps

Searing


I pointed this out yesterday and it kinda got dissed by the KNC collective

you don't fix something that isn't broke unless you know everything that can break it

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October 11, 2013, 04:18:03 PM
 #14962

I'm not sure why people are freaking out, I get responses within 24 hours every time when I make a reasonable, non answered in the FAQ and fully formed request of them. See below:

You apply logic to the situation? MADNESS!

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October 11, 2013, 04:18:50 PM
 #14963

I think we all need to step back for a second and chill out on the KNC folks.  

We have to remember that this is a collaboration between Orsoc and KNC, and both companies have reputations on the line.  If I were to speculate (and that's all we can do without any information coming from KNC) then as soon as units started having problems, the Orsoc guys put the breaks on the project.  To be honest, I can't even blame them.  You can't be a long term success in this industry if your products burn houses down.

I'm guessing that:
  1) KNC and Orsoc are madly working on the issues and will have them fixed as soon as humanly possible.
  1) KNC isn't allowed to say anything about the problems due to the agreement between them and Orsoc.


Nobody wants a unit shipped to their home that is going to achieve 1/10 to 1/4th of the expected hash rate. Nor would I imagine they want one that catches on fire.  I'm not involved and have not special information, but I know KNC will make this right.



+ a lot effing more than 1

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October 11, 2013, 04:19:29 PM
 #14964

There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

Yeah I have turned PC off GPU rigs at the switch a couple thousand times.  It is a non-issue.  There is a reason open frame GPU miners used power supplies with a physical power switch on back.  The theory that it powering off highly regulated UL listed ATX power supply destroyed connected equipment doesn't hold water.

There are ~300 million PC in the US.  If yanking the power would blow up a motherboard 1% of the time and the average PC experiences 3 blackouts a year then you would be talking something on the order of 9 million destroyed PC every single year.   Say average PC is $500.  We are talking about a half a billion dollars.   If it genuinely was a problem then PC mother boards (and GPU and other hardware) would come with circuit breakers or at least a $0.20 quick burn fuse.  Of course they don't ... because it isn't a problem. 
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October 11, 2013, 04:20:18 PM
 #14965


lol, for once we agree!
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October 11, 2013, 04:20:33 PM
 #14966

And now, "Gay Life On Bitcoin", a venture by 2 loveable users, Cypherdoc and Avenger.
Let's all donate BTC and send these two on a honeymoon. Anything to get them out of here.

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October 11, 2013, 04:22:24 PM
 #14967

Order #12x
Miner Saturn
Date of Order 3/6/2013
Paid 9/7/2013
Location Athens/Greece

Status change In progress a few hours a go

According to KnCMiner, they work full time all weekend to catch 15th of October!!!  Smiley

i see Saturns moving forward but Junipers are not goig anywhere. what happed to the sacred queue? So so disappoint
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October 11, 2013, 04:23:06 PM
 #14968

And here is a tip for everyone.  You know those two pins you jump to make the PSU work?  Do you know what those are used for?  

When you press the OFF switch your motherboard opens those two pins, telling the PSU to power everything down safely.  That is the only correct way to shut a system down - pull the jumper, then power off the PSU.  

If you just flip the PSU switch off, you leave a "whole lot of amerage" suddenly looking for the quickest way to get home.  And electrons aren't fussy, if they can find a shorter path across a component instead of thru it, they'll use that.  If there are unseen micro droplets of solder on the solder mask that present a shorter path, they'll use that path, carbonizing the solder mask and making it an even BETTER shortcut - resulting in nasty smelling smoke and burned solder mask...

Just flipping the PSU switch to off might not break anything the first time or even 100th time you do it, but eventually you'll pay the price, and the magic smoke gets out.  There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

Good tip thanks!

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October 11, 2013, 04:25:36 PM
 #14969

There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

Yeah I have turned PC off GPU rigs at the switch a couple thousand times.  It is a non-issue.  There is a reason open frame GPU miners used power supplies with a physical power switch on back.

you missed the whole point, the motherboard being hooked up properly with those pins tells give the PSU a reference as to what to do and that its ready to shut things down instead of POP powers gone.

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October 11, 2013, 04:28:31 PM
 #14970

And now, "Gay Life On Bitcoin", a venture by 2 loveable users, Cypherdoc and Avenger.
Let's all donate BTC and send these two on a honeymoon. Anything to get them out of here.

You should be nicer to the mentally disabled.

          WTF!     Don't Click Here              
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October 11, 2013, 04:30:08 PM
 #14971

And here is a tip for everyone.  You know those two pins you jump to make the PSU work?  Do you know what those are used for?  

When you press the OFF switch your motherboard opens those two pins, telling the PSU to power everything down safely.  That is the only correct way to shut a system down - pull the jumper, then power off the PSU.  

If you just flip the PSU switch off, you leave a "whole lot of amerage" suddenly looking for the quickest way to get home.  And electrons aren't fussy, if they can find a shorter path across a component instead of thru it, they'll use that.  If there are unseen micro droplets of solder on the solder mask that present a shorter path, they'll use that path, carbonizing the solder mask and making it an even BETTER shortcut - resulting in nasty smelling smoke and burned solder mask...

Just flipping the PSU switch to off might not break anything the first time or even 100th time you do it, but eventually you'll pay the price, and the magic smoke gets out.  There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

+1
+2
None of this "its the HX850's fault". That model might just be particularly susceptible to this problem... But I have used over 30 HX850s for mining-related functions without a single issue till KnC. 

here's another tip.

please be careful when you touch that jumper clip.  make sure everything is powered off.  in fact, the exposed part of it should be wrapped completely in electrical tape. 

the electrical shock these things can put out is enough to kill you so be careful.
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October 11, 2013, 04:30:19 PM
 #14972

And here is a tip for everyone.  You know those two pins you jump to make the PSU work?  Do you know what those are used for?  

When you press the OFF switch your motherboard opens those two pins, telling the PSU to power everything down safely.  That is the only correct way to shut a system down - pull the jumper, then power off the PSU.  

If you just flip the PSU switch off, you leave a "whole lot of amerage" suddenly looking for the quickest way to get home.  And electrons aren't fussy, if they can find a shorter path across a component instead of thru it, they'll use that.  If there are unseen micro droplets of solder on the solder mask that present a shorter path, they'll use that path, carbonizing the solder mask and making it an even BETTER shortcut - resulting in nasty smelling smoke and burned solder mask...

Just flipping the PSU switch to off might not break anything the first time or even 100th time you do it, but eventually you'll pay the price, and the magic smoke gets out.  There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

+1

I, for one, would like to see that shown experimentally.  I personally believe there is no fault in pulling the plug.

More accurately, I believe there is no fault in pulling the plug with the miner attached to the power supply.

Still, that doesn't have a bearing on potential buildup on the power supply lines after disconnecting from the miner, plugged in with switch off or unplugged from the wall with power supply switch on.  The possible problem would be the power supply outputs looking at a open given that the leads would be unplugged from the miner.  The longer unplugged the higher the potential potential buildup. KnC does not know the design of every model of every power supply manufactured.  If a power supply had been powered on for hours or days the potential for voltage potential buildup on the filter capacitors while leads are disconnected may very well exist in some miners.



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October 11, 2013, 04:32:25 PM
 #14973

The new asic bords with only 4 VRMs [which were designed to use 8] are using to much power. KNC will release a bug fix for this in next (0.95?) Firmware hopefully arriving in short (Today?)  A Jupiter in this Config will use app. 890W. So it can be difficult to start with a 850W ATX. (You can still run them with only 3 boards conected).

What happen to margins on margins.  The boards were designed to have 320A of DC regulators (which drop the 12V supply down to the 0.75V used by the chip).  Now if BFL cheaped out I could see that but KNC has talked for months and months and month about margins on margins so when they actually get to the finish line and start shipping products at the very last minute they decide to yank out all the margins and run the hardware at close to the theoretical limit and hope everything works.  

So the solution to an overheating and overloaded power system is to push the power system even harder.  To take 160A (which was designed to be 320A) of capacity and run it at 25% over the redline.  

So what is is this negative margins on negative margins now?

Quote
The VRMs are also running over spec with app. 50+ A current each! They probably won't burn, but if you can cool them extra until the new firmware is realeased, do it!!
 The Asics are tunning to hot (+70 deg C) as they get app, 0.9V instead of 0.7V as they are supposed to. Cool them as much as you can!!!  The Problem is due to the VRMs not working according to spec but KNC will be able to fix it with new firmware (we did our own patch for our miners yesterday).

How about just start shipping the proper 8 VRM design and offer replacements to affected customers (who you shipped underperforming units).

Quote
 Easiest fix to cool properly is to provide cool air, belo 20 deg C is a good idea. Open case + big fan will also work.

Yeah that seems like the solution.  Open case, giant fan, hardware running overspec, and power consumption through the roof.  Throw in the cost of high AC load to maintain 20 deg C cooling.  Too bad there is no simpler solution like I don't know ...shipping the product as designed, promised, and sold.

Quote
PS, this does not apply to 8 VRM asic boards. No worries here.

So wouldn't the best solution to ship the boards with 8 VRMS as you initially promised they would?
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October 11, 2013, 04:32:40 PM
 #14974

There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

Yeah I have turned PC off GPU rigs at the switch a couple thousand times.  It is a non-issue.  There is a reason open frame GPU miners used power supplies with a physical power switch on back.

you missed the whole point, the motherboard being hooked up properly with those pins tells give the PSU a reference as to what to do and that its ready to shut things down instead of POP powers gone.

Regardless of the 2 pins that are shorted, the other voltages drain into the motherboard after it's turned off.



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October 11, 2013, 04:34:01 PM
 #14975

And here is a tip for everyone.  You know those two pins you jump to make the PSU work?  Do you know what those are used for?  

When you press the OFF switch your motherboard opens those two pins, telling the PSU to power everything down safely.  That is the only correct way to shut a system down - pull the jumper, then power off the PSU.  

If you just flip the PSU switch off, you leave a "whole lot of amerage" suddenly looking for the quickest way to get home.  And electrons aren't fussy, if they can find a shorter path across a component instead of thru it, they'll use that.  If there are unseen micro droplets of solder on the solder mask that present a shorter path, they'll use that path, carbonizing the solder mask and making it an even BETTER shortcut - resulting in nasty smelling smoke and burned solder mask...

Just flipping the PSU switch to off might not break anything the first time or even 100th time you do it, but eventually you'll pay the price, and the magic smoke gets out.  There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

+1
+2
None of this "its the HX850's fault". That model might just be particularly susceptible to this problem... But I have used over 30 HX850s for mining-related functions without a single issue till KnC. 

here's another tip.

please be careful when you touch that jumper clip.  make sure everything is powered off.  in fact, the exposed part of it should be wrapped completely in electrical tape. 

the electrical shock these things can put out is enough to kill you so be careful.
Um... no?

The power that goes across the Green>Black pins that you would use for the paperclip trick are very low amperage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXgQSokF4
Otherwise... why would corsair advertise it as a safe way to test?
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October 11, 2013, 04:34:23 PM
 #14976

Order #12x
Miner Saturn
Date of Order 3/6/2013
Paid 9/7/2013
Location Athens/Greece

Status change In progress a few hours a go

According to KnCMiner, they work full time all weekend to catch 15th of October!!!  Smiley

i see Saturns moving forward but Junipers are not goig anywhere. what happed to the sacred queue? So so disappoint

My Merc is in progress this morning.



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The Avenger
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October 11, 2013, 04:39:27 PM
 #14977

And now, "Gay Life On Bitcoin", a venture by 2 loveable users, Cypherdoc and Avenger.
Let's all donate BTC and send these two on a honeymoon. Anything to get them out of here.

And how much skin do you have in the KNC game MrHempstock? Oh yeah, 25GH. That's kinda sad and pathetic. And actually, just a little gay.

And now, "Gay Life On Bitcoin", a venture by 2 loveable users, Cypherdoc and Avenger.
Let's all donate BTC and send these two on a honeymoon. Anything to get them out of here.

You should be nicer to the mentally disabled.

This coming from someone too stupid to read  Grin
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=309391.msg3319602#msg3319602

"I am not The Avenger"
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Crypterium - Digital Mobile Cryptobank For Everyon


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October 11, 2013, 04:40:22 PM
 #14978

There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

Yeah I have turned PC off GPU rigs at the switch a couple thousand times.  It is a non-issue.  There is a reason open frame GPU miners used power supplies with a physical power switch on back.

you missed the whole point, the motherboard being hooked up properly with those pins tells give the PSU a reference as to what to do and that its ready to shut things down instead of POP powers gone.

Regardless of the 2 pins that are shorted, the other voltages drain into the motherboard after it's turned off.

Might be why some models don't have bleed off resistors on filter caps - cost-cutting designers arguing that the voltages will bleed off into the motherboard while at the same time giving a slight efficiency increase to the power supply stats compared to the same supply having capacitor bleed off resistors.



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DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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October 11, 2013, 04:44:25 PM
 #14979

The power that goes across the Green>Black pins that you would use for the paperclip trick are very low amperage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXgQSokF4
Otherwise... why would corsair advertise it as a safe way to test?

Yeah not only is it low current it is also low voltage, about 0.9V and 500mA.  You have more risk of electrocution handling a AA battery without protective gear.

While it only takes about 300mA of DC current (only 60 or so mA for AC current) to cause irreversible ventricular fibrillation. The good news is the human body is a pretty good resistor and it takes a pretty high voltage to the protective insulator we call skin.  If it wasn't then people would just be killing each other on a daily basis with static electricity shocks. 

Anything below 50V isn't a significant shock risk unless you somehow managed to stab both ends of the paper clip into your heat cavity while still being energized.  Then again if someone can manage to accidentally do that they probably are doomed anyways. Smiley
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October 11, 2013, 04:46:14 PM
 #14980

Probably a stupid question:
Is anyone's Jupiter actually working reliably at 450+GH/s?

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