Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[aspeer]

There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

Yeah I have turned PC off GPU rigs at the switch a couple thousand times.  It is a non-issue.  There is a reason open frame GPU miners used power supplies with a physical power switch on back.

you missed the whole point, the motherboard being hooked up properly with those pins tells give the PSU a reference as to what to do and that its ready to shut things down instead of POP powers gone.

[1714201495]

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[1714201495]

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[1714201495]

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[wtfvanity]

And now, "Gay Life On Bitcoin", a venture by 2 loveable users, Cypherdoc and Avenger.
Let's all donate BTC and send these two on a honeymoon. Anything to get them out of here.

You should be nicer to the mentally disabled.

[cypherdoc]

And here is a tip for everyone.  You know those two pins you jump to make the PSU work?  Do you know what those are used for?  

When you press the OFF switch your motherboard opens those two pins, telling the PSU to power everything down safely.  That is the only correct way to shut a system down - pull the jumper, then power off the PSU.  

If you just flip the PSU switch off, you leave a "whole lot of amerage" suddenly looking for the quickest way to get home.  And electrons aren't fussy, if they can find a shorter path across a component instead of thru it, they'll use that.  If there are unseen micro droplets of solder on the solder mask that present a shorter path, they'll use that path, carbonizing the solder mask and making it an even BETTER shortcut - resulting in nasty smelling smoke and burned solder mask...

Just flipping the PSU switch to off might not break anything the first time or even 100th time you do it, but eventually you'll pay the price, and the magic smoke gets out.  There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

+1

+2
None of this "its the HX850's fault". That model might just be particularly susceptible to this problem... But I have used over 30 HX850s for mining-related functions without a single issue till KnC. 

here's another tip.

please be careful when you touch that jumper clip.  make sure everything is powered off.  in fact, the exposed part of it should be wrapped completely in electrical tape. 

the electrical shock these things can put out is enough to kill you so be careful.

[soy]

And here is a tip for everyone.  You know those two pins you jump to make the PSU work?  Do you know what those are used for?  

When you press the OFF switch your motherboard opens those two pins, telling the PSU to power everything down safely.  That is the only correct way to shut a system down - pull the jumper, then power off the PSU.  

If you just flip the PSU switch off, you leave a "whole lot of amerage" suddenly looking for the quickest way to get home.  And electrons aren't fussy, if they can find a shorter path across a component instead of thru it, they'll use that.  If there are unseen micro droplets of solder on the solder mask that present a shorter path, they'll use that path, carbonizing the solder mask and making it an even BETTER shortcut - resulting in nasty smelling smoke and burned solder mask...

Just flipping the PSU switch to off might not break anything the first time or even 100th time you do it, but eventually you'll pay the price, and the magic smoke gets out.  There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

+1

I, for one, would like to see that shown experimentally.  I personally believe there is no fault in pulling the plug.

More accurately, I believe there is no fault in pulling the plug with the miner attached to the power supply.

Still, that doesn't have a bearing on potential buildup on the power supply lines after disconnecting from the miner, plugged in with switch off or unplugged from the wall with power supply switch on.  The possible problem would be the power supply outputs looking at a open given that the leads would be unplugged from the miner.  The longer unplugged the higher the potential potential buildup. KnC does not know the design of every model of every power supply manufactured.  If a power supply had been powered on for hours or days the potential for voltage potential buildup on the filter capacitors while leads are disconnected may very well exist in some miners.

[DeathAndTaxes]

The new asic bords with only 4 VRMs [which were designed to use 8] are using to much power. KNC will release a bug fix for this in next (0.95?) Firmware hopefully arriving in short (Today?)  A Jupiter in this Config will use app. 890W. So it can be difficult to start with a 850W ATX. (You can still run them with only 3 boards conected).

What happen to margins on margins.  The boards were designed to have 320A of DC regulators (which drop the 12V supply down to the 0.75V used by the chip).  Now if BFL cheaped out I could see that but KNC has talked for months and months and month about margins on margins so when they actually get to the finish line and start shipping products at the very last minute they decide to yank out all the margins and run the hardware at close to the theoretical limit and hope everything works.  

So the solution to an overheating and overloaded power system is to push the power system even harder.  To take 160A (which was designed to be 320A) of capacity and run it at 25% over the redline.  

So what is is this negative margins on negative margins now?

The VRMs are also running over spec with app. 50+ A current each! They probably won't burn, but if you can cool them extra until the new firmware is realeased, do it!!
 The Asics are tunning to hot (+70 deg C) as they get app, 0.9V instead of 0.7V as they are supposed to. Cool them as much as you can!!!  The Problem is due to the VRMs not working according to spec but KNC will be able to fix it with new firmware (we did our own patch for our miners yesterday).

How about just start shipping the proper 8 VRM design and offer replacements to affected customers (who you shipped underperforming units).

 Easiest fix to cool properly is to provide cool air, belo 20 deg C is a good idea. Open case + big fan will also work.

Yeah that seems like the solution.  Open case, giant fan, hardware running overspec, and power consumption through the roof.  Throw in the cost of high AC load to maintain 20 deg C cooling.  Too bad there is no simpler solution like I don't know ...shipping the product as designed, promised, and sold.

PS, this does not apply to 8 VRM asic boards. No worries here.

So wouldn't the best solution to ship the boards with 8 VRMS as you initially promised they would?

[soy]

There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

Yeah I have turned PC off GPU rigs at the switch a couple thousand times.  It is a non-issue.  There is a reason open frame GPU miners used power supplies with a physical power switch on back.

you missed the whole point, the motherboard being hooked up properly with those pins tells give the PSU a reference as to what to do and that its ready to shut things down instead of POP powers gone.

Regardless of the 2 pins that are shorted, the other voltages drain into the motherboard after it's turned off.

[bobsag3]

And here is a tip for everyone.  You know those two pins you jump to make the PSU work?  Do you know what those are used for?  

When you press the OFF switch your motherboard opens those two pins, telling the PSU to power everything down safely.  That is the only correct way to shut a system down - pull the jumper, then power off the PSU.  

If you just flip the PSU switch off, you leave a "whole lot of amerage" suddenly looking for the quickest way to get home.  And electrons aren't fussy, if they can find a shorter path across a component instead of thru it, they'll use that.  If there are unseen micro droplets of solder on the solder mask that present a shorter path, they'll use that path, carbonizing the solder mask and making it an even BETTER shortcut - resulting in nasty smelling smoke and burned solder mask...

Just flipping the PSU switch to off might not break anything the first time or even 100th time you do it, but eventually you'll pay the price, and the magic smoke gets out.  There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

+1

+2
None of this "its the HX850's fault". That model might just be particularly susceptible to this problem... But I have used over 30 HX850s for mining-related functions without a single issue till KnC. 

here's another tip.

please be careful when you touch that jumper clip.  make sure everything is powered off.  in fact, the exposed part of it should be wrapped completely in electrical tape. 

the electrical shock these things can put out is enough to kill you so be careful.

Um... no?

The power that goes across the Green>Black pins that you would use for the paperclip trick are very low amperage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXgQSokF4
Otherwise... why would corsair advertise it as a safe way to test?

[soy]

Order #12x
Miner Saturn
Date of Order 3/6/2013
Paid 9/7/2013
Location Athens/Greece

Status change In progress a few hours a go

According to KnCMiner, they work full time all weekend to catch 15th of October!!!  

i see Saturns moving forward but Junipers are not goig anywhere. what happed to the sacred queue? So so disappoint

My Merc is in progress this morning.

[The Avenger]

And now, "Gay Life On Bitcoin", a venture by 2 loveable users, Cypherdoc and Avenger.
Let's all donate BTC and send these two on a honeymoon. Anything to get them out of here.

And how much skin do you have in the KNC game MrHempstock? Oh yeah, 25GH. That's kinda sad and pathetic. And actually, just a little gay.

And now, "Gay Life On Bitcoin", a venture by 2 loveable users, Cypherdoc and Avenger.
Let's all donate BTC and send these two on a honeymoon. Anything to get them out of here.

You should be nicer to the mentally disabled.

This coming from someone too stupid to read  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=309391.msg3319602#msg3319602

[soy]

There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

Yeah I have turned PC off GPU rigs at the switch a couple thousand times.  It is a non-issue.  There is a reason open frame GPU miners used power supplies with a physical power switch on back.

you missed the whole point, the motherboard being hooked up properly with those pins tells give the PSU a reference as to what to do and that its ready to shut things down instead of POP powers gone.

Regardless of the 2 pins that are shorted, the other voltages drain into the motherboard after it's turned off.

Might be why some models don't have bleed off resistors on filter caps - cost-cutting designers arguing that the voltages will bleed off into the motherboard while at the same time giving a slight efficiency increase to the power supply stats compared to the same supply having capacitor bleed off resistors.

[DeathAndTaxes]

The power that goes across the Green>Black pins that you would use for the paperclip trick are very low amperage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXgQSokF4
Otherwise... why would corsair advertise it as a safe way to test?

Yeah not only is it low current it is also low voltage, about 0.9V and 500mA.  You have more risk of electrocution handling a AA battery without protective gear.

While it only takes about 300mA of DC current (only 60 or so mA for AC current) to cause irreversible ventricular fibrillation. The good news is the human body is a pretty good resistor and it takes a pretty high voltage to the protective insulator we call skin.  If it wasn't then people would just be killing each other on a daily basis with static electricity shocks. 

Anything below 50V isn't a significant shock risk unless you somehow managed to stab both ends of the paper clip into your heat cavity while still being energized.  Then again if someone can manage to accidentally do that they probably are doomed anyways.

[jimrome]

Probably a stupid question:
Is anyone's Jupiter actually working reliably at 450+GH/s?

[jeroenn13]

Probably a stupid question:
Is anyone's Jupiter actually working reliably at 450+GH/s?

Yes mine, stable at 500 Gh/s @ BTCguild. 0.94 firmware.

[fragout]

And here is a tip for everyone.  You know those two pins you jump to make the PSU work?  Do you know what those are used for?  

When you press the OFF switch your motherboard opens those two pins, telling the PSU to power everything down safely.  That is the only correct way to shut a system down - pull the jumper, then power off the PSU.  

If you just flip the PSU switch off, you leave a "whole lot of amerage" suddenly looking for the quickest way to get home.  And electrons aren't fussy, if they can find a shorter path across a component instead of thru it, they'll use that.  If there are unseen micro droplets of solder on the solder mask that present a shorter path, they'll use that path, carbonizing the solder mask and making it an even BETTER shortcut - resulting in nasty smelling smoke and burned solder mask...

Just flipping the PSU switch to off might not break anything the first time or even 100th time you do it, but eventually you'll pay the price, and the magic smoke gets out.  There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that.  Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...

Good tip thanks!

I bought this (sry for bad pic)
I didnt take much notice at the time, but the jumper is set to pin 4 and pin 6 unlike the setup suggested in the manual of pin 4 and 5
I also have the 8vrm boards and the 6 connection controller board

[soy]

The power that goes across the Green>Black pins that you would use for the paperclip trick are very low amperage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXgQSokF4
Otherwise... why would corsair advertise it as a safe way to test?

Yeah not only is it low current it is also low voltage, about 0.9V and 500mA.  You have more risk of electrocution handling a AA battery without protective gear.

The trick is for what, just testing?  No matter what else that wire pair does, it tells the power supply that a motherboard is connected.  There is no motherboard connected to the motherboard connector when that wire pair is jumped.

[DPoS]

How about just start shipping the proper 8 VRM design and offer replacements to affected customers (who you shipped underperforming units).

+1   agree with everything you said.   They did not have to shoot themselves in the foot here.  What was the gain?  Who made this call?

since one of my Jupiters have one board with 8 VRMs I can show the difference (this is with open case, and fans on top of it)

[DeathAndTaxes]

The trick is for what, just testing?  No matter what else that wire pair does, it tells the power supply that a motherboard is connected.  There is no motherboard connected to the motherboard connector when that wire pair is jumped.

There is no need for a motherboard to be connected.   The power supply turns on the when voltage on that pin is low and it turns off when the voltage on that pin is high.  A motherboard, switch, or paperclip all do the same thing they connect the power-on pin to ground which pulls the voltage low.  When the power supply is on (plugged in and any hardwired power switch is turned on) it monitors that pin and supplies continual power to the 5VSB rail.  When it goes low it "turns on" = supplies power to the other rails, and when it goes high it "turns off" = disconnects power to the other rails.

[robix]

Order 29XX, Jupiter
Paid June 28
Changed status from "Paid" to "In progress"

[NetTime]

Probably a stupid question:
Is anyone's Jupiter actually working reliably at 450+GH/s?

Yes mine, stable at 500 Gh/s @ BTCguild. 0.94 firmware.

Mine too stable around 450 but they better f'n sort the firmware, before 0.94 mine was running 100GH/s faster.

[DeathAndTaxes]

I bought this (sry for bad pic).  I didnt take much notice at the time, but the jumper is set to pin 4 and pin 6 unlike the setup suggested in the manual of pin 4 and 5

It is fine.  Technically it is pin 17 (pin 4 is the one on the first row).  The "power on" pin just needs to be "pulled low" and that is done by connecting it to the ground.  Any ATX ground pin would work fine.

http://www.mupuf.org/images/wt-rpm/connector_atx_pinout.gif

Hell connecting pin 4 to the power supply screw will also work (the chassis of the power supply is grounded).   How this is done paperclip, adapter, PSU tester, custom power board (Avalon), custom built power switch, motherboard, etc.  It doesn't really matter.

Pin 4 is "high" = not connected to ground --> power supply is "off"*
Pin 4 is "low" = connected to ground (any ground) ---> power supply is "on"*

* Technically off/on is poor terms because even when a PSU is "off" it is powered internally and supplies power to the 5VSB rail.  When a power supply is "on" it can be overridden by internal logic and output power shutoff due to overvolt, overcurrent, overheat, or other internal fault situation.