Official Thread: AMT

[Stan-O]

that 1 Stop guy is selling pre-orders, supposedly shipping on the 26th of march.

[sirminesalot]

Reputation alone can hurt. At the moment its a crowded space. The only players who will win out are the ones who deliver and can provide superior customer service. This community may be a bit contentious at times, but it appears to be effective getting results from vendors. The successful ones have been the ones who have set correct expectations and have not misled their customers. My initial assessment when I came on here was that those people flaming the company were trolls. I still hold that opinion about the people who have nothing to contribute but trash talk. But there have been some who when looking further have contributed details that were relevant in outing the companies business practices. The important thing here is to sort the fact from fiction and ignore the totally useless crap. Then you get a real picture of whats going on. Misleading statements, unfulfilled promises and in that manner a consistent patter of both, that's generally the red flag.

AMT lost the trust of the community when they decided to attack it and "punish" customers from is evidenced on the emailed interactions on more than one person. Throwing customers under the bus isn't helpful. Having the support of a few people is not enough. The feedback is clear. Communicate clearly and honestly. MEET your expectations. I will repeat this in the hopes that they see it and actually deliver on that. The failure here was that AMT clearly seems to have decided to abandon communications. Now the community is starting to mobilize against them.

They clearly are not a scam just apparently horribly mismanaged from a public perspective, but they are in sore need a of a PR person to handle communications. A social media community manager. They have a facebook, twitter and even a skype account. And their own blog. None of which are being used to full effect in my opinion.

This situation now has everyone watching them and putting them under the microscope. Sadly tho with some people this needs to happen to get them to right themselves. There was plenty of feedback early on that might have helped avoid all this.

Look into Joshua Zipkin's other start-ups, and how he's manipulated their social media pages to look favorable with fake likes and +1's. With that said, I wouldn't trust much from AMT in that respect.

And, if you recall, I was the only one pointing out that Joshua Zipkin sold such a service on at least one of his super-duper sites where he acts as its Jewish Bulgarian Freemasons' CEO.

Marketing major my ASS!

What kind of marketing is it to bloat a companies' social media pages with complete utter fakery?

The only companies that would engage in this kind of marketing strategy are likely to be illegitimate ones. The IBM's of the world aren't exactly lining up to have Joshua Zipkin manage their social media for them.

[rik_khaos]

I gotta admit, because of this thread I got a much bigger picture of the mining manufacturing community. Thanks to those who provided valuable info you know who you are. Getting the info and who the players are and their apparent levity with peoples money.

Seems like right now the only players that will win are the ones who deliver AND provide customer service.....and seem to have their own forums. I think most people can understand a late product. But not beign told why its late or moreover not telling them anything just riles them up.

So taking a tally how many are actively requesting refunds now?
How many actually have hardware in hand?
How many have a tracking number?

Now its easy enough to talk alot of crap. But at least get your facts straight about a company before smearing them seeing as in the US they can come at you for libel (and legally win see some cases with Yelp if you dont believe me). Again I am NOT an AMT employee but I am a customer. I see alot of people on here flaming and trolling without any real substance to back it up. I almost started to believe the so called "facts" until I started doing my own digging. They are a registered corporation that was enough for me. It means they have a legitimate presence in the US.

Your shovel:



My shovel:



 

Lets not make this a shovel measuring contest.

Also there should be a meme with the cat Max as CEO of AMT.


Wait was Mr. Teal serious about them being a legit company who just thought that bitmine's design was going to work? If so why won't anyone call him a shill?  I thought that's what we did if any one suggested anything but scam. It's not fairs I tells ya.

[Mblackout]

We are at page 200 and not a miner in sight  BTC

[NotFuzzyWarm]

AMT Terms and Conditions (at checkout):

<huge snip. Use the link above to catch it all>

So that's as much as can be given as information about largest Bitmine.CH client in existance, so far.

Who can verify this ?

Users who bought their A1-based rigs from AMT (USA), Sunrise (China), and Technobit (Bulgaria).
If those rigs operate as expected, so the other might. Just relax and be patient.

Those three companies actually make their own PCBs which may give them some advantage, because Bitmine is not producing their PCBs themself and that is the critical problem in this story - so far, because as I saw the talks about this issue, those PCBs are now entering their third improved generation which means previous two generations had failures.

So if you don't trust Bitmine, you can turn to other three companies which buy chips from Bitmine.CH...
The rest are curently just resellers.

1st - Phin, ya may be a PITA at times but damn, good job there bucko. I've c/p'd it into me records for in needed. Only thing you missed is Innosiicon's role in this. more later on about that.

On the PCB's: BMch (BitMine.ch) blew it beyond belief there... It is unheard of in the semi industry to release new chips of any sort without reference-design boards to go with them. Ones that work.. As in that's the whole point of them.. Not to necessarily use for production (usually lots things like test points on them) as they are for something the buyers can run chips on to prove they how work in the Real World. Then folks usually do a few tweaks here and there to I/O and maybe the GUI, packaging and whatever else they think will help sales.

From there it's like any other business: Is up to the chip buyer to figure out how to differentiate THEIR version for using it from the other OEM's out there. Or, in the case of AMT, be a reseller of some BMch systems (like the 520 my order is for. Bet if/when it 'ships' it will be after BMch fill it's own backlog of direct orders first ...) as well as attempt to make their own spin on a teraminer.

Finally, on the 1TH miners based on the A1 that *are* supposed to exist/be shipping. Somewhere there is a thread here (think I actually posted the link around p.190-195?) mentioning that Innosilicon, the ASIC design company BMch partnered with, is also selling the A1 chips to board/system builders... Huh? Competing against their 'design partner' who at least according to BMch HIRED by BMch to design/make the chip?

Wonder if the existing A1 th miners are using chips/boards from them vs BMch. BTW: Innosilicon is a design house - not chip foundry (yet?) for the 28nm node. There are very very few companies that can make chips at that node (much less smaller). Global Foundries http://globalfoundries.com/ is who are actually producing the chips.

[Syke]

I don't know why AMT thinks they can get away with not refunding the money.   

Um, because they are. Has anyone gotten a refund? Has anyone sued them and gotten their money back?

[NotFuzzyWarm]

"Has anyone gotten a refund? Has anyone sued them and gotten their money back?"

Not from what anyone here has said.
In my case the claimed latest ship-date won't be until Apr.4 (check was deposited at Eagle Bank Mar.4, my act debited teh same day) so legally I have no bitch - yet. I did however 3 days ago send them email offering a way out with me - have 4 Ant S1's drop-shipped to me instead. (dirt cheap right now and just ordered 2 more a couple hrs ago). Yeah they make like $1.5k off me vs what  can by them for but, clears me off their books and I get more hash than what I paid for at the time.

No reply from AMT of course.

[ISAWHIM]

Did anyone notice on the photo taken at AMT, from the ebay guy... There was a pad under the magazine with an itemized list. Looks like it is showing the production value of the miner at about $1400.00 which would make sense. (That might be why the other guys are so quick to give up-to 50% to 100% more hashing-power as part of MPP. Even then, they are still in the green.)

Even with added overhead, if labor and other issues were not accounted for, the loss would be minimal. Not only that, but it would be cheaper than wasting money on advertising, by the word-of-mouth from the clients. (Especially false advertising that no-one actually sees, or cares about... Like friends on facebook, myspace, email-spam or linked-in crap. Bots look like bots, and are ignored anyways.)

There is so much uncaptured flip-potential here, not being taken advantage of. Instead, the general perception is that we are being taken advantage of. (Pulling the "well, it's legal", crap. Or the silent treatment, or the flat-out deceptive responses. "We are shipping miners"... They are, just not the 1.2THs miners. I have not gotten a single email from AMT, except the one Josh sent, in response to hiring me. Never got that follow-up email to even say, "Hey sorry, we don't think we can do this.")

It is not that I don't believe they won't deliver. I just wish they honored one thing, that was said. No replies when promised, even directly. No updates about AMT's situation. Not even a correction to the previously updated and promised delivery dates.

I am now in complete agreement with "discouraging others from investing in AMT's 1.2THs to 3.4THs miners", until something is done to clarify the situation. (Which would include any of the promised updates, and delivery of MPP honored miners, and a clear "refund policy". Even if that only includes updating our accounts to reflect when a refund is "possible", and contact information specific to refunds, where an automated system would fail.)

Those are not demands. That is just what I would need, to stop discouragement of future investors. Because at the moment, we are all investors providing loans. Yet treated not as investors, share-holders, or as "valuable customers". This is now to the point of gross-neglect.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Hmm, wonder if I should point someone at Electronic Component News at the BitMine.ch mess... Should be pretty damn newsworthy I'd think...

[opieum2]

Right same thing I have been more or less getting at. They are now silent with little to show for that silence. THere is no big reveal, no shipping 1.2Ths miners. We have one dude who claims he has one for sale but can't produce pictures of something he has in his possession?

I think getting into this thread and getting a general feel for it one will understand why people are feeling like this. But I think referring people to dogies trustworthiness thread is even better.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691

For anyone still feeling the need to defend AMT refer to that thread. I still am giving them until the end of March as they publicly announced on more than one occasion. If I get my miners on time great I will be able to post some pics just as proof they are real and working. It will go a long way to advocating for giving them a second chance. Provided they also deliver in terms of communicating properly and professionally even in the face of unprofessional types. That professionalism. When you can maintain a civil decorum in the face of incivility. Not an easy thing but an important one for people in positions like these.

[opieum2]

I believe a lawyer will be able to have logs of this thread subpoenaed to show what all the bad actors' IPs are, including any sockpuppets, to better their case.

Plenty of legal precedent for that. Mostly in family court cases. ISPs keep pretty decent logs of that. Well most of them.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I do rather like the twisted possible backers behind BitMine: For one, Google. I'd think that with Google being attached would make this rather interesting for various news outlets be they industry-specific or general....
Wonder if this is ties to some info that Motely Fool brings up now and then about a couple very large warehouse-size 'possible data centers' that Google owns on the banks of the Columbia river in WA state? So far the big-G has ben mum as to what they are. Thinking about their link to Petahash on that one...

If anything link shown here, now wonder the diff rate is yumping... They are running over 1PH there...  Around 3min i is when it getts to good stuff.  http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Bitcoin-Modern-day-gold-rush-or-risky-investment-249577361.html

"His company, MegaBigPower, has invested over $1 million into two warehouses that feature hundreds of mining rigs running side by side on dozens of racks that stand seven feet high. It consumes 1.4 megawatts of power - enough to run a small town. It currently relies on huge fans circulating outside air to cool the rigs. During a recent visit, it was 30 degrees outside and 102 inside."

jeez...

[NotFuzzyWarm]

no, they are FPGA blades. BitFury methinks. Try to grab the transcript of the interview and they say what they are.

[Syke]

That farm is Bitfury 55nm ASIC blades.

I think PG was making a joke about the Monarchs. At least I hope it was a joke. It was pretty funny.

[captin crunch]

Also anyone who wants to check up on if the mail is ever picked up just go here:

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction.action?tRef=fullpage&tLc=1&text28777=&tLabels=70130600000042874703

Looks like AMT isn't signing for their mail

[rik_khaos]

Also anyone who wants to check up on if the mail is ever picked up just go here:

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction.action?tRef=fullpage&tLc=1&text28777=&tLabels=70130600000042874703

Looks like AMT isn't signing for their mail

I e-mailed them again by the way to let them know that a notice was left so that they would have time to get the letter and refund me by the 7 day mark per FTC regulations. I also let them know that non-communication with me, by mail, phone, or email will be treated as willful neglect to fulfill the their responsibilities in accordance with the FTC regulation and that I would be pursuing other avenues for such as Consumer affairs mediation and if necessary legal action. 

If anyone lets me know when their 10 days is up with the delaware county consumer affairs division I'd appreciate it.  They said in their terms that mediation had to be attempted before lawsuit right? I imagine they waive their right to mediation by ignoring requests of mediation from their customers or third parties.

Does anyone else have a feeling that this should be a small class action lawsuit? Since we are all dealing with the same terms and circumstances? I wonder if they can get us the money for our miners or the amount to cover equivalent equipment. Obviously the lawyer is going to take a sizeable chunk but it's no good for us if we can't recover at least enough to get as much hashing speed as we would have.

[DrGamma]

That last one is a private listing only between a buyer and seller. I know how this works, and in no way would it have been found via a Google or eBay search, until after the sale, perhaps, once feedback is exchanged.

go to ebay and search:

TH ASIC

To find these.

[DrGamma]

In response to creation of:

http://www.advancedminers-clients.com/

Part of email from Jim Brown on 2/5/2014:

"In general, we don't want blogs about our company period, and would appreciate if you just did not make one, good or bad.

Jim"

I know of no other company that would not want a good review of their services. AMT is special. Promised delivery date for my 1.2 TH miner: 1/25/2014. As of 3/22/2014: No Delivery on a time sensitive order.

[captin crunch]

In response to creation of:

http://www.advancedminers-clients.com/

Part of email from Jim Brown on 2/5/2014:

"In general, we don't want blogs about our company period, and would appreciate if you just did not make one, good or bad.

Jim"

I know of no other company that would not want a good review of their services. AMT is special. Promised delivery date for my 1.2 TH miner: 1/25/2014. As of 3/22/2014: No Delivery on a time sensitive order.

A company whom hasn't done one thing worthy of a good review

[Chazaki]

Well if AMT doesn't want people posting reviews and blogs on the internet, that's exactly what we should do! We should post as many reviews and blogs as possible detailing how poor AMT is as a company. No emails, no call backs, and now no updates even? Legal action is great but in order to stick it to AMT we should shed light on the truth behind Josh Zipkin and his bogus companies created soley with the intent of stealing  money. We should post so many reviews that Mr Zipkin has to go back to Bulgaria to carry on with his shenanigans. We need to make it so that Josh can no longer run these bogus start ups, and if it keeps him from acquiring a legitimate job in the process then so be it - he brought that upon himself. The truth is out greatest weapon against AMT, and sometimes the truth can be excruciatingly painful.

If you ask me, time has come and passed for apologies and acceptable "setbacks". There are people here who were promised delivery MONTHS ago and are stil left empty handed. My order is very closely approaching my two month deadline. It's time to take matters into our own hands and do the one thing AMT REALLY doesn't want us to do... Write detailed and truthful reviews about our horrific experience.

To whoever started that AMT clients blog page - thank you for that. I will be submitting my review as well shortly.