Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

Paging traderCJ & Teebone!

oh noes!  gold commencing the plunge!:

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[cypherdoc]

up close and dirty.

tonite's futures:

[cypherdoc]

traderCJ & Teebone,

i warned you about this.  and guess what?  Bitcoin unaffected!:

[molecular]

Just read the May '14 paper by Peter Surda The origin, classification and utility of Bitcoin (worth a read).

There's many quotes from austrian economics in there. Here's two I find especially notable:

He who owns a stock of goods of a high degree of secondary
marketability is in a position to restrict his cash holding.

Gold cannot be produced in a cheaper way by any governmental bureau, committee, institution, office, international agency, or so on.
This is the only justification for the gold standard. One has tried again and again to find some method to substitute these qualities of gold in some other way. But all these methods have failed, and will ever fail as long as governments are committed to the idea that it is all right for a government, which has not collected enough money to pay its expenses by taxing its citizens or by borrowing on the market, to increase the quantity of money simply by printing it.

I disagree with the bolded part. No, we will not fail to find a method to substitute these qualities (scarcity, cannot be produced at will by govt) of gold. In fact we already found it: the method is Bitcoin. I don't care what ideas the governments are commited to. We are the people and we decide what we use as money. Now all we have to do is elevate Bitcoin from status of a medium of exchange to the category of money by using it as a unit of account and make it be widely accepted for payment.

To quote some dude from the teaser (worth a watch, length 2:23) of documentary (or should I say "Bitcoin propaganda film"?) "crypto for the masses" (relevant thread by Meni Rosenfeld): "Money is not the property of the state, it belongs to the citizens. And the state knows it."

Bitcoin is a weapon... similar to a pitchfork regarding usage patterns, it might turn out in retrospect.

It's also a currency. You can buy a fallafel with it. So What?

[cypherdoc]

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin up.

[klee]

US collapsing.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x246nwe_%CE%B7-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%B3%CE%BC%CE%AE-%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%85-%CE%BF%CE%B9-%CE%B1%CF%83%CF%84%CF%85%CE%BD%CE%BF%CE%BC%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%BF%CE%AF-%CE%B5%CE%BA%CF%84%CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%BF%CF%8D%CE%BD-%CF%84%CE%BF%CE%BD-25%CF%87%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BD%CE%BF-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF-%CE%BC%CE%B9%CE%B6%CE%BF%CF%8D%CF%81%CE%B9_news

[cypherdoc]

Dear Shorts,

it's only going to get worse when that little green line turns UP.

Sincerely,

cypherdoc

calculated at current price, that "little green line" is still 5 times higher than the red one.

I wonder if that is the market pricing in the relative "danger" of borrowing bitcoin?

[cypherdoc]

Gold has an up and coming date with Bitcoin. Satoshi won't be kind this time by putting his fist through the face of gold.

Although we can't be sure Satoshi isn't a woman who doesn't believe in violence. Even so, when it happens, you gotta believe there will be some sort of fireworks. 

[bucktotal]

Gold has an up and coming date with Bitcoin. Satoshi won't be kind this time by putting his fist through the face of gold.

Although we can't be sure Satoshi isn't a woman who doesn't believe in violence. Even so, when it happens, you gotta believe there will be some sort of fireworks. 

considering we are talking about two arbitrary units (1 bitcoin, and 1 oz) compared to a third party (usd), you must see how ridiculous this is. but i agree, it is exciting for some reason... go humans

[conspirosphere.tk]

Satoshi won't be kind this time by putting his fist through the face of gold.

maybe. Still, BTC is going down from 8 months+ almost no-stop and is less than 50% its ATH.
gold collapsed less atm.

[_mr_e]

Excerpt from: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinThoughts/comments/2e4ant/a_few_thoughts_wednesday_august_20_2014/?sort=confidence

The VC bubble and a domino effect of failures

The latest fad in /r/bitcoin is that the price of bitcoin doesn't matter. One thread was titled "Sean's Outpost can give meals whether bitcoin is worth $35 or $1200!" That's true, but bitcoin is more complicated than that one use case.

I talked about the insane amounts of venture capital being poured into the industry right now a few weeks ago. The price of bitcoin is important for these people because it affects all sorts of businesses. For example, mining businesses can't profit if there is a crash after they design their chips. Exchanges make less money if the price is lower because a lower price can't support high volume. People who build projects on top of the network and who are sitting on donations can fold. Altcoins that are promising can be forked because it is no longer profitable to mine them.

Even at higher prices, there was not enough money to go around to prevent most of the VCs from losing on their investments. The piece of the pie that the VCs can earn shrinks as the price of a bitcoin falls. These people have deep pockets, so most of them can survive a brief downturn, but as the network expands, the lower bound price that would precipitate a complete collapse is rising.

When bitcoins averaged around $50, there weren't lots of employees getting paid in bitcoins and bankers wanting returns on investment. Now that bitcoins tend to average around $600, the size of the economy has increased significantly. Previously, the price of bitcoins could have dropped to $10 and everyone could still have looked forward to a recovery. Now, the minimum price is much higher (I've said $200) where a cascading chain reaction of business failures would take out the whole industry. In the future, that minimum price will likely rise to $1000, and then to $10,000, and so on.

The price falling below $200 or whatever the minimum is doesn't itself signal anything wrong with the promise of bitcoins. Instead, the low price will cause the failure of some critical part of the infrastructure like a major exchange, which could then cause businesses that depend on the exchange to be taken out, and so on. Even if everyone who owns bitcoins believed that the technology would succeed and there were many people spending bitcoins, the businesses would all be forced into bankruptcy simply because other businesses they need to offer their services failed in a chain reaction.

This VC bubble is dangerous and the best thing that could happen right now is for the VCs to stop temporarily with their investments so that this does not happen. Otherwise, the industry will end up in a fragile state where there are startups depending on other startups that have business models depending on a base price.

[cypherdoc]

Gold has an up and coming date with Bitcoin. Satoshi won't be kind this time by putting his fist through the face of gold.

Although we can't be sure Satoshi isn't a woman who doesn't believe in violence. Even so, when it happens, you gotta believe there will be some sort of fireworks. 

considering we are talking about two arbitrary units (1 bitcoin, and 1 oz) compared to a third party (usd), you must see how ridiculous this is. but i agree, it is exciting for some reason... go humans

The fact of the matter is gold's value is always expressed in terms of the USD unit of account despite hypocrite Jim Rickards always leveling that criticism against Bitcoin. Therefore it's quite reasonable to reference gold versus Bitcoin in this manner.

The only time gold is expressed in its own terms is when we talk about buying a men's suit.

[Melbustus]

...
The latest fad in /r/bitcoin is that the price of bitcoin doesn't matter.
...

I'll generalize that a little more; it's a fad amongst the tech crowd to say price doesn't matter. Getting further into the realm of spec, I think it's because talking about price is probably considered a bit crude, non-intellectual, even greedy/materialistic. The tech crowd wants to remain more "pure" than that, and therefore talks about bitcoin more intellectually as a breakthrough technology, without regard to the asset side of the dynamic.

Yet many know that the price of bitcoin has to increase by a couple orders of magnitude in order to unlock the potential that they see for the technology. Jeremy Allaire is one example (downplays talk of price, but makes statements that require *much* higher price to be true).

Anyways...it's an annoying fad; ideally we should all just be able to be honest about all of it, but the upside to the above approach is probably that maintaining such outward "purity" makes the bitcoin ecosystem less of a turn-off to the set of newbies who are prone to consider the whole thing a scam or some such.

[justusranvier]

upside to the above approach is probably that maintaining such outward "purity" makes the bitcoin ecosystem less of a turn-off to the set of newbies who are prone to consider the whole thing a scam or some such.

Who cares of those newbies are turned off?

You really don't want flaky newbies buying Bitcoins right now because they'll panic and bail at the first sign of trouble.

It's better if the people buying are the ones who want Bitcoin to use it as a unit of account.

[zeetubes]

Gold has an up and coming date with Bitcoin. Satoshi won't be kind this time by putting his fist through the face of gold.

Although we can't be sure Satoshi isn't a woman who doesn't believe in violence. Even so, when it happens, you gotta believe there will be some sort of fireworks. 

He/She may not be violent but certainly confrontational. Personally I don't see the battle as being between BTC and gold/silver. I don't want to see bitcoin take market share away from PMs; I'd much rather see it taken from the other putrid bullshit presented as markets.

Off topic but I need to rant. The great firewall of China has become stronger. Having an android phone here is like having an expensive camera. Almost nothing works. Having a chromebook here is exactly like having a paperweight. I'm guessing when you use an alternate search engine like Bing in Chrome, it sends it through google anyway because it hangs just the same way that google does. My vpn, when it does connect, stays up for 15 minutes max.  I'm guessing google wouldn't play ball with the chinese government because of their record of human rights abuses. And yet they play ball with the US government. Right.

[MoonTime]

Gold speculation is done by less people now,unless you are ornament seller

[bucktotal]

Gold has an up and coming date with Bitcoin. Satoshi won't be kind this time by putting his fist through the face of gold.

Although we can't be sure Satoshi isn't a woman who doesn't believe in violence. Even so, when it happens, you gotta believe there will be some sort of fireworks. 

considering we are talking about two arbitrary units (1 bitcoin, and 1 oz) compared to a third party (usd), you must see how ridiculous this is. but i agree, it is exciting for some reason... go humans

The fact of the matter is gold's value is always expressed in terms of the USD unit of account despite hypocrite Jim Rickards always leveling that criticism against Bitcoin. Therefore it's quite reasonable to reference gold versus Bitcoin in this manner.

The only time gold is expressed in its own terms is when we talk about buying a men's suit.

no no no, my point was that putting special meaning/value for comparing 1 bitcoin ~ 1 oz is ridiculous.  i mean... 1 oz? why not 1 gram?

10 million satoshis just passed > 1 gram of gold..... now THAT exciting :0

[cypherdoc]

drumroll...the little green line is starting to rise:

[cypherdoc]

oh noe!  shit!

[hdbuck]

Bank of America reaches $16.65 billion settlement with U.S.
http://fortune.com/2014/08/20/bank-of-america-reaches-17-billion-settlement-with-u-s/

still ridiculous..