Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[CMMPro]

whats that?

the shipped saturn is the one hashing... You don't have a knc order?... thats a snippet of my KNC account order page...the other two orders there are also saturns...  in progress for a week now

Um...can you update the "October Delivery" thread so we know that your order has arrived?

Please and thanks.

That goes for all the other excited new recipients of KNC products too!
If you got your device, I'm happy for you just please....update the thread.

[1714216517]

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[Sitarow]

I propose for each order to be sent after 15/10/2013 KnC Miner giving one unit of 100GH / s for free.

What happens if you have 3 day one orders that are in the #300 range and have yet to receive a tracking number for them?

You shed a tear and hope for some real compensation? Sorry to hear mate...

Nah no worries. Got some mates together and we made personal orders totaling 10 Jupiter units before they started taking payments.

Once they started taking payments. Any large orders had to be split up into individual pieces if you wished to take advantage of paypal.

I paid BTC. The other gents had to split up their orders. By that time within 24 hours the order queue was in the #1500+.

However they did have orders in the #300 range. Sam in an email had stated within that 7 day window that it would be combined.

I can only guess at the cause for the delay. Perhaps the notes used by the queue coordinator was not updated for those orders. And because of that it was pushed back in the queue.

It became apparent to one of my colleagues the reality that ROI in BTC would not be achieved,

You can guess what happens next, and you know KnCs new policy with respects refunds.

As you may have guessed rather then investing in hardware. You may have better success investing in companies that handle BTC transactions along with payment processes in btc.

I am a optimist by nature. The fact that I like to help out when I can does not help the matter.

Needless to say I am now the owner of that order.

In fairness to KnCs team efforts in attempting to deliver all orders on time, and the fact that unlike others who I have ordered from in the past. Who shall remain nameless.

I may yet get close to the amount of btc I had paid for back from the units.

Edit: In case your wondering, When those orders were placed the KnC reseller/distributor incentive program was not in place. So I do not expect that the program would extend back to day 1 pre-orders.

Edit2: Disclosure: I also felt it necessary to state that I have not signed up and have not taken part in the KnC reseller/distributor program.

I wanted to inform you all that it seems they are indeed emailing tracking numbers.
Got the 3 Jupiter individual tracking numbers via email. However they still need to be picked up.

Note: If you had day 1 order shipped to you and got it up and running october 4th you would have made over 13 BTC as of this moment.
Just an FYI.

thanks for this painfully stabbing reminder for the 3/4 of KNC's customers who are currently only waiting for their device with no consideration it seems so far...other than extra hashing power from when ordered.

I am still one of those customers who are still waiting on 3 devices that should have been scheduled for the day 1 delivery.

[scotjam]

They held off shipping to fix the "Caps blowing" issue. Your unit was likely getting assembled when they made this call.

Haven't heard many more stories about the caps blowing other than Anti-KnC people claiming the boxes blow up and cause nuclear fallout (lol) so shouldn't be much longer.

Those have become some very expensive caps - we might all have been better off if they shipped with the dodgy ones. If they lasted until the end of the month for most people, that is about half of the BTC the boxes will ever generate, right there.

If it has delayed all shipping by a week, we would probably be better overall to take our chances; if I understood correctly, it sounded like very few caps were popping, and even then the machines were mining but at reduced rates.

scotjam

[sbfree]

BITCOINORAMA, any chance you might reply to my posting.....it is alot less abrasive than the ones you seem to reply to.

[WastedLTC]

I am still one of those customers who are still waiting on 3 devices that should have been scheduled for the day 1 delivery.

NO WAY?!?!?   How is that possible???   What did customer support say? 

[btc_uzr]

guess they're busy somehow..


nah, fun beside, call them - shit happens

[Sitarow]

I am still one of those customers who are still waiting on 3 devices that should have been scheduled for the day 1 delivery.

NO WAY?!?!?   How is that possible???   What did customer support say?  

At first it went with no reply except the response to deny refunds.

In an attempt to simplify the situation I took ownership of the orders.

This past Friday a far better response came from customer support. They were apologetic of the situation. Especially since the original owner of the order requested a refund but was denied.
As far as compensation for the shipping discrepancy on day 1 orders. Nothing yet.

I was informed today that they have issued tracking numbers via email. They are doubtful to arrive before the next difficulty change.

However it is somewhat reassuring that there is progress on the order. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, it seems they may have had held back shipment in order to iron out hardware / software issues.

Perhaps this is a good sign and all day 1/2 and early orders scheduled to be shipped in September will be shipped this week.

[DeathAndTaxes]

No it won't be 22 billion.  But 4-5 billion by April is very possible.  Just wait till hardware is marked down which will cause more irrational buying.  These ASIC chips and boards probably cost $50 each.  ASIC manufacturers will adjust accordingly so they can continue to sell equipment.  The ball is in their court.

Or not.  The DC regulators on the board cost more than that. 

Can ASIC prices come down?  Yes but even with free ASICs the balance of the system is still going to have some cost and those costs are unlikely to get massively reduced over time.   An  x00 watt PSU is going to have a non zero cost.  PCB creation and assembly, DC regulators, even mundane things like fans, heatsinks, cables, and cases.   There is no Moore's law or massive markup on these components.  With free ASICs you still wouldn't have $50 boards.

[DPoS]

No it won't be 22 billion.  But 4-5 billion by April is very possible.  Just wait till hardware is marked down which will cause more irrational buying.  These ASIC chips and boards probably cost $50 each.  ASIC manufacturers will adjust accordingly so they can continue to sell equipment.  The ball is in their court.

Or not.  The DC regulators on the board cost more than that. 

Can ASIC prices come down?  Yes but even with free ASICs the balance of the system is still going to have some cost and those costs are unlikely to get massively reduced over time.   An  x00 watt PSU is going to have a non zero cost.  PCB creation and assembly, DC regulators, even mundane things like fans, heatsinks, cables, and cases.   There is no Moore's law or massive markup on these components.  With free ASICs you still wouldn't have $50 boards.

Huh?  BFL been selling zero cost devices for a year...

[Sitarow]

No it won't be 22 billion.  But 4-5 billion by April is very possible.  Just wait till hardware is marked down which will cause more irrational buying.  These ASIC chips and boards probably cost $50 each.  ASIC manufacturers will adjust accordingly so they can continue to sell equipment.  The ball is in their court.

Or not.  The DC regulators on the board cost more than that. 

Can ASIC prices come down?  Yes but even with free ASICs the balance of the system is still going to have some cost and those costs are unlikely to get massively reduced over time.   An  x00 watt PSU is going to have a non zero cost.  PCB creation and assembly, DC regulators, even mundane things like fans, heatsinks, cables, and cases.   There is no Moore's law or massive markup on these components.  With free ASICs you still wouldn't have $50 boards.

The best "kits" i have seen thus far to make costs low is Bitfury chips with c-scape design.

Leave's the cost of the incidentals up the the purchaser rather than the manufacturer/seller

For bitfury the original first batch of chips cost was priced at $5 a GH. At least according to Tytus's picostock post ...

Summary:

Strong aspects:
-   low investment costs: only $5 / 1GH/s (4 times cheaper than competing products)
-   low maintenance costs due to low power dissipation of the chip: approximately 0.2-0.3 Watt / 1GH/s (4-20 time better than competition)
-   4 year manufacturer warranty
Weak aspects:
-   chip not tested yet, tape out in 1 month (full mask, engineering run), final simulation results will be posted in 2 weeks
-   deployment of 100TH-mine in July 2013

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg1494509#msg1494509

[edgar]

BITCOINORAMA, any chance you might reply to my posting.....it is alot less abrasive than the ones you seem to reply to.

srsly!!

plenty of significant questions have been ignored repeatedly

just the same empty ' not my concern' posts, negating any consideration for the concerned buyers.

how many rigs per day?

how many yesterday?

how many today?

dodgy/variable chips?

3 vs 4 VRM?

in one breath you say they are too busy to be answering all questions

the next breath you tell us to eat up more of their time by calling or 'visiting like you did'

if YOU, or ANYONE with even the slghtest consideration for our concerns would merely answer the RELEVANT questions, there would be much less discomfort in here.

the silence is deafening

and the 'not me not my fault, look at avalon/bfl - lalalalala not listening' stuff is tired, and pathetic.

[joeventura]

Saturn purchasers losing $100 per day because of delays
Jupiter purchasers losing $200 per day because of delays


No employees of KNC to be found.

No orders after order #19xx or pay date June 10th have shipped

Clearly there has been a huge gap in the shipping process. Seems like the line has stopped for many days.

Still calling for anyone who actually works for the company to show their face and tell us what is going on.

[Phoenix1969]

yup, new psu fixed aussie adventure
do not use silverstone 850's
or at least never unplug it from the wall
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=287

[DeathAndTaxes]

No it won't be 22 billion.  But 4-5 billion by April is very possible.  Just wait till hardware is marked down which will cause more irrational buying.  These ASIC chips and boards probably cost $50 each.  ASIC manufacturers will adjust accordingly so they can continue to sell equipment.  The ball is in their court.

Or not.  The DC regulators on the board cost more than that.  

Can ASIC prices come down?  Yes but even with free ASICs the balance of the system is still going to have some cost and those costs are unlikely to get massively reduced over time.   An  x00 watt PSU is going to have a non zero cost.  PCB creation and assembly, DC regulators, even mundane things like fans, heatsinks, cables, and cases.   There is no Moore's law or massive markup on these components.  With free ASICs you still wouldn't have $50 boards.

The best "kits" i have seen thus far to make costs low is Bitfury chips with c-scape design.

Leave's the cost of the incidentals up the the purchaser rather than the manufacturer/seller

For bitfury the original first batch of chips cost was priced at $5 a GH. At least according to Tytus's picostock post ...

Summary:

Strong aspects:
-   low investment costs: only $5 / 1GH/s (4 times cheaper than competing products)
-   low maintenance costs due to low power dissipation of the chip: approximately 0.2-0.3 Watt / 1GH/s (4-20 time better than competition)
-   4 year manufacturer warranty
Weak aspects:
-   chip not tested yet, tape out in 1 month (full mask, engineering run), final simulation results will be posted in 2 weeks
-   deployment of 100TH-mine in July 2013

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg1494509#msg1494509

Well the ASIC chips themselves can be much much cheaper than $5/GH especially a design with high die efficiency (GH/mm2), sub $1 is certainly possible.  Still the point is that while raw chip prices will fall rapidly from $50 per GH/s down to $1 per GH/s the balance of the system won't fall as rapidly.

Lets just look at a generic large ASIC chip design.  Say 150 GH/s per chip at 100W (@ chip) with 4 modules per rig.   If the chip is running at 0.8V nominal you are looking at 125A of DC regulators.  The prebuilt modules used by KNC are about $0.50 per A in bulk.  Lets say someone went with a custom design at half that cost.   125A @ $0.10 per A =  $12.50 per board or 8.3 cent per GH.

If you use an off the shelf CPU cooler heatsink & fan assembly you are looking at $20 ea for something which can handle 150W+.   Throw in another 4 case fans at $7 ea and cooling is $108 per system or $0.18 per GH.

The rest of the board is relatively cheap.  Rather than go through ever component lets just budget $10 for all connectors, caps, resistors, fan headers, etc.  KNC boards are ~36 sq inches.  PCB production in small batches tends to be $0.20 per sq in.  We are looking at $7 for production.   Assembly and testing is going to vary by the number and type of components but even in volume on simple boards is going to be a couple bucks.  As a guesstimate lets say another $3.  So we are looking at on the order of $0.07 ea for balance of components and production/assembly.

A good quality and efficiency ATX PSU is going to be on the order of $0.16 per W.  If we assume each of 4 chips use 100W ea, 11W per board is lost in conversion, and then 8 fans (4 heatsink + 4 host) use another 6W each, the host is likely light at 10W max.   Total wattage is something like 500W.  Power ends up being $0.14 per GH.

You probably need some sort of data and power connector.  Lets say $5 ea or $0.07 per GH/s.  Finally you will need some host.  BBB is a good option cheap and yet relatively powerful and ease to develop for.  Now KNC uses a seperate expensive daughterboard with FPGA "manager" but that likely isn't necessary.  It may be possible to do it with just a BBB (or rPi) to save cost.  Say $50 per system or $0.08 per GH.

So even if magically a pile of free chips landed in your lap with no labor costs, no customer service, no profit, and no yield losses at a min we are looking at.

DC regulators = $0.08 per GH
Balance of components = $0.07 per GH
PCB production &  assembly = $0.07 per GH
Cooling = $0.18 per GH
Power = $0.14 per GH
Cables = $0.07 per GH
Host = $0.08 per GH
Total (at least) = ~$0.70 per GH.

Nobody is going to be selling 150 GH/s boards for $50.    As the margins on chips decline the "balance of the system" will act like a drag on marginal cost.  Also the prices above are rather optimistic.  More like what could be done instead of what is being done.  If you need water cooling, or want rackmount case your cost will be higher.   It also assumes a relatively efficient chip, lower efficiency means more power and cooling related costs.  Still I think chips can break $1 GH/s and the bulk of the system cost being another $0.70 to $1.00.  Even with labor cost and a small profit margin we "could" be seeing miners at around $2 per GH in 2014 but those dreaming of the day when $0.25 per GH rigs are right around the corner will be waiting a while.

[Paladin69]

Saturn purchasers losing $100 per day because of delays
Jupiter purchasers losing $200 per day because of delays


No employees of KNC to be found.

No orders after order #19xx or pay date June 10th have shipped

Clearly there has been a huge gap in the shipping process. Seems like the line has stopped for many days.

Still calling for anyone who actually works for the company to show their face and tell us what is going on.

I'm losing close to $100 per day on a botched Jupiter due to one shitty card.  Anna...you're cute...but you give me stupid advice and make me sit and wait longer.
She said "make sure you are running FW 0.95 and test the bad card by itself"

duh...

Now I wait another 24 hours for them to give me an RMA # if I'm lucky.  They will probably make me send mine back to Sweden first before giving me a new one.

That is actually worse than BFL.  They would send me a new board ASAP without wait.

[soy]

yup, new psu fixed aussie adventure
do not use silverstone 850's
or at least never unplug it from the wall
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=287

I bought one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JUMP-START-EPS-ATX-24-PIN-POWER-SUPPLY-WITHOUT-A-MOTHERBOARD-MADE-IN-USA-/251029042274?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a727f3462

Somebody else had posted a link for one of these and I thought it a great idea.  When the power supply is shut down both the 12v and the 5v are attached to the miner and its rails go low.  The 3.3 volts from the supply might not because there's no load.  With one of these in place, when the power supply is shut off the 3.3 v rail goes low as well because it now has a load.

I'm doing something else to power my Mercury but I do sometimes use switching power supplies as a voltage source so I like this.

[demonmaestro]

Well considering today is D-day i expect some big news.

[madsusies]

Well considering today is D-day i expect some big news.

News ? Lol, a lot of folks here believed knc will ship more then 500 boxes in a day now they use a Josh tactics "be quiet, we are in schedule". Why we don't askfor refund and pre order again for beter prices

[rolling]

Well considering today is D-day i expect some big news.

Wishful thinking.

[demonmaestro]

Key word. expect. rather if it will happen or not is a different story.