Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Sitarow]

The purpose of these exponential growth projections is to help those inexperienced with bitcoin network difficulty realize that what they should be focusing on is BTC return over the lifetime of the product.

Considering the risks associated with any pre-order it is time that manufacturers also consider the customers situation when pricing the $ value of the unit.

Avalon did it well on their first and second batches pricing wise vs number of units to be sold. Wish they would have been able to deliver them in volume.

Here is a link to something that I feel is my optimistic view as respects network difficulty.

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=249506922&dcosts=31200&diff_mincrease=35&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=2200000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=140&dpowcon=2400&btcusd_mincrease=3&pcost=0.13&calcweeks=25&dleadtime=0&action=calc#

Please understand that an exercise in awareness rarely is doing disservice to others.

I understand what you're saying, and I do think that Genesis block and the other companies have given people more tools on this than have ever been provided before.  I just don't want people to think the future is that bleak...It is pretty bleak, don't get me wrong...just not THAT bleak.

I could not agree more

Speaking of investments

Oct. 9, 2013, 3:05 p.m. - **Debit cards have arrived as a new withdrawal option! (In Beta)
https://www.cavirtex.com/news

Oh and they have an IPO...
https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=VTX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvELpQ83ApA&feature=youtu.be

Edit: I think that this is a far more likely scenario as to network difficulty and bitcoin value projection.
BTCInvest link

[1l1l11ll1l]

The purpose of these exponential growth projections is to help those inexperienced with bitcoin network difficulty realize that what they should be focusing on is BTC return over the lifetime of the product.

Considering the risks associated with any pre-order it is time that manufacturers also consider the customers situation when pricing the $ value of the unit.

Avalon did it well on their first and second batches pricing wise vs number of units to be sold. Wish they would have been able to deliver them in volume.

Here is a link to something that I feel is my optimistic view as respects network difficulty.

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=249506922&dcosts=31200&diff_mincrease=35&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=2200000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=140&dpowcon=2400&btcusd_mincrease=3&pcost=0.13&calcweeks=25&dleadtime=0&action=calc#

Please understand that an exercise in awareness rarely is doing disservice to others.

I understand what you're saying, and I do think that Genesis block and the other companies have given people more tools on this than have ever been provided before.  I just don't want people to think the future is that bleak...It is pretty bleak, don't get me wrong...just not THAT bleak.

I could not agree more

Speaking of investments

Oct. 9, 2013, 3:05 p.m. - **Debit cards have arrived as a new withdrawal option! (In Beta)
https://www.cavirtex.com/news

Oh and they have an IPO...
https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=VTX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvELpQ83ApA&feature=youtu.be

Edit: I think that this is a far more likely scenario as to network difficulty and bitcoin value projection.
BTCInvest link

So by July ASICs will ship in such vast quantities that difficulty will rise nearly 4 Billion every 12 days?

[Phoenix1969]

[soy]

Received my Saturn today.  Crappy packaging, fans were fallen off inside, UPS guy was concerned that contents were damaged when he delivered it...
not too hard to put them back on... but damn KnC, you could have talked to some of us who run group buys and have shipped out a ton of packages, we/I could have been a good resource to help you with your packaging and shipping.  At least you would have known what NOT to do...
but anyways, I'm happy that I got it, even though, it's not going to get the btc I paid for it back...
pointed at Eligius pool, working like a champ so far...

Maybe they're sending a signal.  They're engineers and therefore not the "complete package", so don't expect hand holding and time consuming efforts at keeping our spirits up as might be expected of salesmen.

[frankenmint]

whats that?

[Phoenix1969]

whats that?

the shipped saturn is the one hashing... You don't have a knc order?... thats a snippet of my KNC account order page...the other two orders there are also saturns...  in progress for a week now

[Sitarow]

The purpose of these exponential growth projections is to help those inexperienced with bitcoin network difficulty realize that what they should be focusing on is BTC return over the lifetime of the product.

Considering the risks associated with any pre-order it is time that manufacturers also consider the customers situation when pricing the $ value of the unit.

Avalon did it well on their first and second batches pricing wise vs number of units to be sold. Wish they would have been able to deliver them in volume.

Here is a link to something that I feel is my optimistic view as respects network difficulty.

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=249506922&dcosts=31200&diff_mincrease=35&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=2200000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=140&dpowcon=2400&btcusd_mincrease=3&pcost=0.13&calcweeks=25&dleadtime=0&action=calc#

Please understand that an exercise in awareness rarely is doing disservice to others.

I understand what you're saying, and I do think that Genesis block and the other companies have given people more tools on this than have ever been provided before.  I just don't want people to think the future is that bleak...It is pretty bleak, don't get me wrong...just not THAT bleak.

I could not agree more

Speaking of investments

Oct. 9, 2013, 3:05 p.m. - **Debit cards have arrived as a new withdrawal option! (In Beta)
https://www.cavirtex.com/news

Oh and they have an IPO...
https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=VTX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvELpQ83ApA&feature=youtu.be

Edit: I think that this is a far more likely scenario as to network difficulty and bitcoin value projection.
BTCInvest link

So by July 2014 ASICs will ship in such vast quantities that difficulty will rise nearly 4 Billion every 12 days?

One thing you can bet on the cost of the hardware will be a fraction of what it is today.

But only a fool would not sit down and revisit their calculations in order to prepare to any anticipated changes that may come down the pipe.

Carbon may become a viable option over silicon before the end of 2015.

2012 http://www.kurzweilai.net/carbon-nanotubes-to-replace-silicon-ibm

Killing silicon: Inside IBM’s carbon nanotube computer chip lab
2013 http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/147596-killing-silicon-inside-ibms-carbon-nanotube-computer-chip-lab

Researchers Build a Working Carbon Nanotube Computer
2013 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/26/science/researchers-build-a-working-carbon-nanotube-computer.html?_r=0

Then again who knows.

Edit: one also should realize that the calculator linked in this post does not calculate negative values for the bitcoin network difficulty.

A factor that the network difficulty does drop once those interested in mining realize the futility of investing into hardware for a profit the network speed increase drops until the next generation of technology becomes available.

[frankenmint]

whats that?

the shipped saturn is the one hashing... You don't have a knc order?... thats a snippet of my KNC account order page...the other two orders there are also saturns...

thought those were icons didnt realize you were marking out your order numbers

[Phoenix1969]

 

[Mota]

What I posted was not that they don't deserve profit. I posted a calculation of customers losses vs KNC's profit margin and that they could have avoided the whole thing with another margin in final production. Also keep in mind that those are only the profits from day1/2 and that the costs per unit estimated by me are way too high.

The calculation is not correct
you have to subtract the research and asic mask/production

Nope, was included in the guestimate. With around 4 Million.

[The Avenger]

In other news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24477667

"The bottom line is that 1,000 tonnes of diamonds a year are being created on Saturn."

Should have got one of those instead.

[cet]

In other news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24477667

"The bottom line is that 1,000 tonnes of diamonds a year are being created on Saturn."

Should have got one of those instead.

trouble is that the shipping costs will kill you.

[rolling]

In other news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24477667

"The bottom line is that 1,000 tonnes of diamonds a year are being created on Saturn."

Should have got one of those instead.

Saturn and Jupiter.

[cognoscente]

I have to say that at this point, my feelings are much more in line with Avenger than BitcoinOrama.  Anybody know what Jupiter futures are going for on ebay?

[The Avenger]

In other news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24477667

"The bottom line is that 1,000 tonnes of diamonds a year are being created on Saturn."

Should have got one of those instead.

trouble is that the shipping costs will kill you.

Yeah, interstellar UPS is a rip-off. Nasa is the cheapest option.

[btc_uzr]

yeah cheap, but..

[Biomech]

In other news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24477667

"The bottom line is that 1,000 tonnes of diamonds a year are being created on Saturn."

Should have got one of those instead.

trouble is that the shipping costs will kill you.

Yeah, interstellar UPS is a rip-off. Nasa is the cheapest option.

Nah. Russians do it cheaper and more reliably. Their shit is built to perform, NASA's is built to impress newsies.

Also, don't forget about Sir Richard's outfit. Could change the whole game. I'm told his wife likes diamonds.

[sbfree]

Name:   kncminer
Posts:   79
Activity:   79
Position:   Full Member
Last Active:   September 27, 2013, 08:38:22 AM

Shocking to me.

whether the avenger is a client or not, and i think he is because he is UPSET about stuff LIKE ABOVE....so BITCOINORAMA, regardless of whether you work for KNC or not, you have now become the UNOFFICIAL voice for both KNC as well as US.

With joeventura's post above, he hit the nail on the head, and its seems KNC has no one, and WE Customers don't really have any one but ourselves and YOU.....

KNC has pulled off an amazing fete, especially for the early orders....but those must acct for 1/4 of the customers.....HELP is the avengers request in between the lines.
thanks.

[The Avenger]

In other news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24477667

"The bottom line is that 1,000 tonnes of diamonds a year are being created on Saturn."

Should have got one of those instead.

trouble is that the shipping costs will kill you.

Yeah, interstellar UPS is a rip-off. Nasa is the cheapest option.

Nah. Russians do it cheaper and more reliably. Their shit is built to perform, NASA's is built to impress newsies.

Also, don't forget about Sir Richard's outfit. Could change the whole game. I'm told his wife likes diamonds.

I stand corrected. Of course the Russians are cheaper than Nasa, what was I thinking? And once the rocket reenters the atmosphere and crashes into the sea, it turns into a boat and delivers to your nearest port. Those Russian's be clever AND cost effective.

[sbfree]

I propose for each order to be sent after 15/10/2013 KnC Miner giving one unit of 100GH / s for free.

What happens if you have 3 day one orders that are in the #300 range and have yet to receive a tracking number for them?

You shed a tear and hope for some real compensation? Sorry to hear mate...

Nah no worries. Got some mates together and we made personal orders totaling 10 Jupiter units before they started taking payments.

Once they started taking payments. Any large orders had to be split up into individual pieces if you wished to take advantage of paypal.

I paid BTC. The other gents had to split up their orders. By that time within 24 hours the order queue was in the #1500+.

However they did have orders in the #300 range. Sam in an email had stated within that 7 day window that it would be combined.

I can only guess at the cause for the delay. Perhaps the notes used by the queue coordinator was not updated for those orders. And because of that it was pushed back in the queue.

It became apparent to one of my colleagues the reality that ROI in BTC would not be achieved,

You can guess what happens next, and you know KnCs new policy with respects refunds.

As you may have guessed rather then investing in hardware. You may have better success investing in companies that handle BTC transactions along with payment processes in btc.

I am a optimist by nature. The fact that I like to help out when I can does not help the matter.

Needless to say I am now the owner of that order.

In fairness to KnCs team efforts in attempting to deliver all orders on time, and the fact that unlike others who I have ordered from in the past. Who shall remain nameless.

I may yet get close to the amount of btc I had paid for back from the units.

Edit: In case your wondering, When those orders were placed the KnC reseller/distributor incentive program was not in place. So I do not expect that the program would extend back to day 1 pre-orders.

Edit2: Disclosure: I also felt it necessary to state that I have not signed up and have not taken part in the KnC reseller/distributor program.

I wanted to inform you all that it seems they are indeed emailing tracking numbers.
Got the 3 Jupiter individual tracking numbers via email. However they still need to be picked up.

Note: If you had day 1 order shipped to you and got it up and running october 4th you would have made over 13 BTC as of this moment.
Just an FYI.

thanks for this painfully stabbing reminder for the 3/4 of KNC's customers who are currently only waiting for their device with no consideration it seems so far...other than extra hashing power from when ordered.