Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Bitcoinorama]

3 pages of discussion and not a trace of Cypherdoc.  He be thinking mission accomplished.

Or that his MPP BS has been totally unravelled for what it is; purely an excuse for the fact they could but won't offer real consumer protection, or accept liability for their claim of 'anticipated date' being sales BS. They already know if they have been allocated a hot lot by TSMC, or not. Removing all possibilities for refund until January (when all monies will have been spent), or accountability, speaks volumes.

Technically if they already know whether they will be allocated a run or not, but are still suggesting an anticipated delivery date they cannot meet would be at best dishonest, and at worst fraudulent. Some of their customers have already signed an NDA, and those particular customers should be asking for visual proof of confirmation. MPP means sh*t all, of everyone else has already covered their expenditure, by the time you receive you unit.

I'd rather have true third party accountability for inability to deliver, than bogus protection for false claims.

Again if Hashfast could meet their anticipated deadline, prove it, stake your reputation on it, accept Paypal and give people the option of cancelling within 45 days when everyone will know whether you're honest, or not.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Again if Hashfast could meet their anticipated deadline, prove it, stake your reputation on it, accept Paypal and give people the option of cancelling within 45 days when everyone will know whether you're honest, or not.

They have sold 93% of their initial run in about two weeks.  It seems likely the remaining 7% will sell before the launch without any change in policy.  Why would they change now?  Between that an IceDrill and the first batch they have enough revenue to cover all costs from tape out up through final shipping even without a single satoshi in more sales.  So what point would there be to change things now?  To convince you (who wouldn't buy anyways)?  


Rocket run isn't that hard to believe.  Foundries love the 300% to 500% markup.  Bitcoin is a perfect (although unconventional) use of a rocket run.  Bitcoin miners have such a depreciating value of time combined with the fact that the raw silicon is a small portion of retail prices there really is no reason not to pay the markup.  If we guesstimate a high $10,000 per wafer (small run 28nm non-preferential pricing) that works out to $0.14 per mm^2 *.    Simple and dirty a 361mm^2 (19x19) chip has a raw silicon cost on the order of $50.  So even if they are forced to take a 500% markup (likely less) for a rocket run that means an only $200 in additional cost per rig ($1000 if the max MPP is paid out).  Unless you think the balance of the system cost $5000 or more there is enough gross margin to cover that markup. 

Honestly for Bitcoin miners, there is no reason NOT to use a rocket run and no real reason for foundry to deny it unless they simply have no clients they can bump.


* Not all of the wafer is usable due to square chips on a round wafer.  The actual cost would be marginally higher (maybe 10%).  If someone cares enough there are formulas to cacluate the exact number of chips which will fit in a wafer of a given size.  However this is good enough for now.

[Ytterbium]

  Foundries love the 300% to 500% markup.  Bitcoin is a perfect (although unconventional) use of a rocket run.  Bitcoin miners have such a depreciating value of time combined with the fact that the raw silicon is a small portion of retail prices there really is no reason not to pay the markup.  If we guesstimate a high $10,000 per wafer (small run 28nm non-preferential pricing) that works out to $0.14 per mm^2 *.

Just out of curiosity, do you know how much it costs per wafer for other node sizes?  There doesn't seem to be a lot of pricing data online.

[jlsminingcorp]

They won't be ready in October, that's a pipe dream... they didn't even tape out yet. By the time they ship their miners, KNC should have shipped their September and October orders. It is fairly probable that they will eventually deliver, but by then KNC should have cheaper hardware and the proud owners of BabyJets will probably feel that their units are more Baby than Jets .

Sorry, but I just can't help thinking of nappy (diaper for our US cousins) changes when I hear the name BabyJet. I'm sure that the image that I have in my mind when I think of a "baby jet" is not what HashFash had in mind when naming their miner - unless it's all a big joke and they are laughing at us!

Is this what you have in mind?

Yup, that one or Phoenix1969's post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg3005817#msg3005817). Any parents out there in bitcoinland will probably have experienced both forms of baby jet at some point.

[Templer]

KNC's "miner protection program" is simple: they'll ship on time.

haha nice

[casadebitcoin]

Let the countdown to KnCMiner "SeptembA to RemembA" begin!

 6 Days and "Cointing"... 

[Xialla]

personally knows at least 4 people who already cancel (and lot of others considering it) their pre-order, because nobody from KNC was not able to answer their questions about shipping date. (they plan vacation with family, they were not in 1/2 day of shipping etc)

so sad.(

[Xialla]

personally knows at least 4 people who already cancel (and lot of others considering it) their pre-order, because nobody from KNC was not able to answer their questions about shipping date. (they plan vacation with family, they were not in 1/2 day of shipping etc)

so sad.(

Read as: Know 4 people that needed money for their vacation so they cancelled their orders.

[RChevalier]

Or that his MPP BS has been totally unravelled for what it is; purely an excuse for the fact they could but won't offer real consumer protection, or accept liability for their claim of 'anticipated date' being sales BS. They already know if they have been allocated a hot lot by TSMC, or not. Removing all possibilities for refund until January (when all monies will have been spent), or accountability, speaks volumes.

Technically if they already know whether they will be allocated a run or not, but are still suggesting an anticipated delivery date they cannot meet would be at best dishonest, and at worst fraudulent. Some of their customers have already signed an NDA, and those particular customers should be asking for visual proof of confirmation. MPP means sh*t all, of everyone else has already covered their expenditure, by the time you receive you unit.

I'd rather have true third party accountability for inability to deliver, than bogus protection for false claims.

Again if Hashfast could meet their anticipated deadline, prove it, stake your reputation on it, accept Paypal and give people the option of cancelling within 45 days when everyone will know whether you're honest, or not.

Agreed 100%.  I think most people will see through the claimed MPP, including Cypherdoc to be honest.  

I think he just came on and said what he said to deliberately rile people up and maybe encourage some to make an argument.

[ASIC-K]

personally knows at least 4 people who already cancel (and lot of others considering it) their pre-order, because nobody from KNC was not able to answer their questions about shipping date. (they plan vacation with family, they were not in 1/2 day of shipping etc)

so sad.(

Read as: Know 4 people that needed money for their vacation so they cancelled their orders.

spot on.

[huadylmate]

personally knows at least 4 people who already cancel (and lot of others considering it) their pre-order, because nobody from KNC was not able to answer their questions about shipping date. (they plan vacation with family, they were not in 1/2 day of shipping etc)

so sad.(

Why they preordered then? We know month of delivery, so expect at the end of month

[titomane]

Knc will be the next terrahash

You know what was the main problem terrahash? One of their biggest buyers or greater (cloudhahing). He canceled his purchase to lay eggs in the basket of KNC.

[Xialla]

personally knows at least 4 people who already cancel (and lot of others considering it) their pre-order, because nobody from KNC was not able to answer their questions about shipping date. (they plan vacation with family, they were not in 1/2 day of shipping etc)

so sad.(

Why they preordered then? We know month of delivery, so expect at the end of month

dunno.) I will hold my 1st day Jupiter until last day of September.

[erschiessen]

Where is the miner protection program?

KnC doesn't have a cutesy gimmick to sucker  lure in customers.

I do recall them stating early on that if difficulty keeps going vertical, early KnC adpoters will see additional equipment at incredible price points.

No fancy name, but it could be the template that became HalfFast MPP.



So, if we consider KnC and HalfFast as both being legit...

1) --- KnC is scheduled to beat HF to market.
2) --- KnC offers refunds until shipment.
3) --- KnC will ensure ROI.

KnC wins 2 and ties the other.
HF, too late, too shady.

[nightengale]

I do recall them stating early on that if difficulty keeps going vertical, early KnC adpoters will see additional equipment at incredible price points.

Can you cite a source for this anywhere? ... I'd be really curious as to the details if this was said...

[erschiessen]

I do recall them stating early on that if difficulty keeps going vertical, early KnC adpoters will see additional equipment at incredible price points.

Can you cite a source for this anywhere? ... I'd be really curious as to the details if this was said...

I read it on this site, almost certainly.
(I don't think it was an email or anything)

I will try to find it, I hope my memory serves me correctly.

[erschiessen]

nightengale,

This is what I was talking about.


https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

KnCMiner Network Protection Statement

At KnCMiner we are aware of the service we are providing to our customers. We are also aware that we need our customers to have a return on their devices in order to purchase form us again. With the scale of the supply chains, agreements and factories we have access to, we need to be cautious we don’t ship too many devices and therefore reduce the return to our customers.  So with that in mind our plan is to do as follows: We will ship no devices in December 2013, January 2014 or  February 2014. Meaning that once we have taken the difficulty up at the end of November we will not release any more hashing power for 3 months. We will then release our new generation of devices, which will begin shipping in March 2014. These devices will also have a much higher GH/$ rating than any of our current offerings. We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network.ThanksKnCMiner Team 

[ASIC-K]

doesnt mention what you are talking about in there....

[erschiessen]

doesnt mention what you are talking about in there....

" We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network"

You might have to find the conversations that surrounded this announcement.

[nightengale]

Yeah, I think you may have read something into that which wasn't there.

I'm still hoping they'll give Gen 1 purchasers a significant break on Gen 2 devices, especially if ROI becomes elusive for those receiving October shipments. Us October folks could be in a tough spot with Sept. miners getting a head start and November units significantly less expensive.

If you're reading this KNC, can you address these concerns?