Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[samo]

Quoting myself from KNC forums:

"KNC, what compensation will you provide for orders shipped past Oct 15th? You need to offer us, the buyers, your proposed form of compensation before the deadline so we can decide whether we accept it or not, in which case some of us might opt out for a full refund.

Here are some suggestions:

- 0.35 BTC/day/board, starting Oct 16th or
- 25% free hashing power delivered at the same time with our main order, if order will be delivered until 21st Oct, more after that date to reflect difficulty increase

Anything less and I'm considering cancelling my order and legal action if you refuse full refund."

Some happy user that received his unit/s commented:
"1.4 a day is best case scenario running a jupiter.. real world is not that easy. this isn't going to happen anyway but if so i would then like to get compensation for each day that I was running less than 1.4 for each miner "

My answer to that is:
"I have absolutely nothing against KNC performing any kind of benefactor actions for its customers out of their good will. However, I based my requests out of legal obligation towards customers who suffer losses due to their false commercial claims. In easy words: they don't "owe" you anything cause you received your miners until 15th, now they are in a "guilty" position towards customers that didn't receive miners until 15th. A serious company would most likely go with impressive compensations at this point, but, indeed, I don't expect KNC to do that. They live under the false impression that they are legally covered by those terms, but it's not the case because any court of law in EU will consider those terms to vague to constitute a viable contractual clause, while a clearly stated claim posted on their front page of miners being delivered until 15th will be consider commercially binding."

Yes, it is the time for Sam and co to go have a serious talk to their lawyers about the fee they payed for those business terms, cause they're about to face a shitstorm of valid claims from customers!

Hopefully it wont have to come to this, but there lack of silence is glaring, especially since we have to get vague  answers via pm, or from someone who doesn't even work for them in any official capacity, yet still carries there torch so to speak. Hopefully they'll do the right thing, if not then count me in for any legal action if absolutely necessary, shoot me a pm. Bottom line Knc we need to hear from you please, not anybody else. (day 1, 23x order for the record)

[Sitarow]

@samo

No news on your order? Have you sent an email to customer support with your order number and payment details??

[DigginDeep]

Maybe we should start a separate thread and get everyone wanting to go through with this.  there is no way they are going to provided by the 15th.  and i have sent a few e-emails my self to knc.  And i keep telling them if they can not ship by the 15th i want a refund,  Or  some sort of fair compensation,  they just keep saying there is no refunds at this time.  Yadda yadda ..  and ignore the  questions about compensation.   This is getting old very fast.   And wow a day one order and still have not received it???  I have a july 3rd order my self.  been in processing since last Friday.

[Kaliecious]

Saturn purchasers losing $100 per day because of delays
Jupiter purchasers losing $200 per day because of delays


No employees of KNC to be found.

No orders after order #19xx or pay date June 10th have shipped

Clearly there has been a huge gap in the shipping process. Seems like the line has stopped for many days.

Still calling for anyone who actually works for the company to show their face and tell us what is going on.

I was a june 10th order, got mine last week Monday

[DPoS]

In easy words: they don't "owe" you anything cause you received your miners until 15th, now they are in a "guilty" position towards customers that didn't receive miners until 15th. A serious company would most likely go with impressive compensations at this point,

I feel ya, but if they did this I'd give my jupiters to anyone and tell KNC to ship next year as long as I got my daily BTC compensation!!

Here is what I think happened...  at first they made hotrod 8 VRM miners with firmware .90 that early customers said really performed.. we didn't have bertmod's firmware so no one knows if they were pushing those VRMs hard like the 4 VRMs ended heating up but they were high total watts, so yeah, probably hashed like monsters

well..  bean counter guys say, we don't **really** need to be doing all this and can cut out some serious expenses and strip down the 4 VRMs/caps/etc per board.
(bye bye margins upon margins)
They may or may not of plugged one in and noticed they were still 300 watts more than a '.91 fixed' 8 VRM miner and worse since the voltage/amps/heat are off the charts..... but kinda late once they made a pile of miners and HAD to ship them regardless..(I think I got the first miner with 4 VRM boards since it also has a board made with 8, maybe the last one? )  so they play dumb about how the extra VRMs didn't mean anything..even though I post a picture of bertmod's firmware showing the voltage/amp difference all in one miner..

so yeah, that is why their hosting probably didn't get far early on too since that must of been a bake fest until they got .95 out the door to cool them down


tl;dr  they wouldn't flat ship without the fans/heatsinks/cases for those that asked but sure did rip out VRMs, etc and send you a case that overheats and fans that fly everywhere during shipping


happy mining!!!


  

[joeventura]

Yes between the caps popping the firmware and the VRMs I am sure the assembly line stopped cold for at least 5 days.

[danhu]

  I was just sending an email to Paypal risk department about KNC misconduct.  I am waiting for Paypal to reply tomorrow before I am going to get Visa , MasterCard , Discover and American Express take on KNC merchant account.     I believe they would love to read this forum and KNC forum to see how KNC conduct their business  with hundreds of customers complaining ..

[dhenson]

I was just sending an email to Paypal risk department about KNC misconduct.  I am waiting for Paypal to reply tomorrow before I am going to get Visa , MasterCard , Discover and American Express take on KNC merchant account.     I believe they would love to read this forum and KNC forum to see how KNC conduct their business  with hundreds of customers complaining ..

Some people need a reality check.  Seriously, what KNC has achieved is commendable.  Ask yourselves what is more likely... KNC being somehow delinquent in their delivery or your expectations.

Chill the f out and give these guys the credit they deserve.

Thank you KNC, I mean that.

[frankenmint]

I was just sending an email to Paypal risk department about KNC misconduct.  I am waiting for Paypal to reply tomorrow before I am going to get Visa , MasterCard , Discover and American Express take on KNC merchant account.     I believe they would love to read this forum and KNC forum to see how KNC conduct their business  with hundreds of customers complaining ..

Really, hundreds?  Maybe Dozens.  Agreed, I want KNC to just admit a revised shipping completion date for all miners. Maybe they'll wait till tomorrow to announce what another guy here calculated which was around the 18th as revised shipping.  

[loktang1125]

I was just sending an email to Paypal risk department about KNC misconduct.  I am waiting for Paypal to reply tomorrow before I am going to get Visa , MasterCard , Discover and American Express take on KNC merchant account.     I believe they would love to read this forum and KNC forum to see how KNC conduct their business  with hundreds of customers complaining ..

Some people need a reality check.  Seriously, what KNC has achieved is commendable.  Ask yourselves what is more likely... KNC being somehow delinquent in their delivery or your expectations.

Chill the f out and give these guys the credit they deserve.

Thank you KNC, I mean that.

i will say some ppl get mad because we all made wrong diff estimate few month before

[Searing]

The price had better explode.  Those of us with Jupiters need to climb out of a $7000 hole.

Ah dont panic. If it doesnt work out with KnC, just try with hashfast. Get some "miner protection" while you're at it, and order some cointerra's just to be sure. You know the saying; if you're in a hole, dig deeper

http://kensten.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/digging-a-hole.jpg

ex-miners and bitcoin holders like myself thank you for your sacrifice in making our network more secure!

calculate always with a future price of $1000/BTC and your pain in the ass is gone. realy no joke. it works for me!  

You'll be even happier having more $1000 coins by buying direct than having way less $1000 mined coins.  

I support the network. period. at least as long I have a break even with electricity costs.

ack..that will be the future drama....when I sit looking at whatever (hopefully not) loss Ive taken on asic gear...and see that elec price per month is more then what i' making.....then what.....mine ALT coins for fun and delusion on hope/prayer?.....crap.....(into the future and beyond)

[timmmers]

I was just sending an email to Paypal risk department about KNC misconduct.  I am waiting for Paypal to reply tomorrow before I am going to get Visa , MasterCard , Discover and American Express take on KNC merchant account.     I believe they would love to read this forum and KNC forum to see how KNC conduct their business  with hundreds of customers complaining ..

Some people need a reality check.  Seriously, what KNC has achieved is commendable.  Ask yourselves what is more likely... KNC being somehow delinquent in their delivery or your expectations.

Chill the f out and give these guys the credit they deserve.

Thank you KNC, I mean that.

You pillock. KnC themselves said delivery would be by Oct 15th, and many many times they have repeated that. IS it unreasonable to have expectations that involve them meaning what they say?

Where's this from? :-
When mining Bitcoins time to deployment is everything within the global Bitcoin market.

KnC website.

This too:-
New orders for our ASIC miners that are fully paid today are expected to ship from November 15th, regardless of model.

That same thing was on their site for Oct 15th delivery. Today.

If you got your rig, count yourself lucky. You seriously are. Some day one orders are still saying in progress. About half of customers haven't had their contract with KnC honoured...and are basically being told to fuck off and STFU whining as they watch their potential income drop off a cliff. Why is that important? I know, let's ask someone who knows..KnC. :-

When mining Bitcoins time to deployment is everything within the global Bitcoin market.

[timmmers]

I was just sending an email to Paypal risk department about KNC misconduct.  I am waiting for Paypal to reply tomorrow before I am going to get Visa , MasterCard , Discover and American Express take on KNC merchant account.     I believe they would love to read this forum and KNC forum to see how KNC conduct their business  with hundreds of customers complaining ..

Some people need a reality check.  Seriously, what KNC has achieved is commendable.  Ask yourselves what is more likely... KNC being somehow delinquent in their delivery or your expectations.

Chill the f out and give these guys the credit they deserve.

Thank you KNC, I mean that.

i will say some ppl get mad because we all made wrong diff estimate few month before

I'd say they get mad because they got it right or were even pessimistic on difficulty and worked the possibilities out using the latest date they would be mining according to the very very confident KnC ..and KnC didn't keep their word which made the estimates worthless.

[Searing]

People have to stop comparing KNC to BFL and Avalon as an excuse for being able to miss ship dates. I keep hearing, KNC has done more than BFL and Avalon in a shorter period of time. An argument could be made that anyone could do a better job than both of them but that does not give them a free pass to completely shit the bed when it comes to providing customer service, being transparent, and meeting deadlines.

+1

Also, BFL is a police case and not our fault. I chose to not order from BFL but to order from under-promising, over-delivering, September-maybe-August KNC.  If you suffer from BFL induced trauma, please go see a collective victim support psychologist and leave us out of it.

 

I resemble this remark

Searing

[samo]

I was just sending an email to Paypal risk department about KNC misconduct.  I am waiting for Paypal to reply tomorrow before I am going to get Visa , MasterCard , Discover and American Express take on KNC merchant account.     I believe they would love to read this forum and KNC forum to see how KNC conduct their business  with hundreds of customers complaining ..

Some people need a reality check.  Seriously, what KNC has achieved is commendable.  Ask yourselves what is more likely... KNC being somehow delinquent in their delivery or your expectations.

Chill the f out and give these guys the credit they deserve.

Thank you KNC, I mean that.

Sure if your able to take a step back and look at it from an engineering standpoint or someone who actually got there gear on time or (relative time) then sure you can look at though the lens as commendable, but when you have some skin in the game and haven't heard js besides coined or vague responses, and have to rely on an update from someone who's not even officially employed with knc, realistically what do you expect?

As stated before they've had ample time to get ahead of this, yet have kept many in the dark , and there time is quickly running out, Do I hope they can fix this? hell yes been onboard since day 1, thats why I and many others have given them ample time to do so, but the clock is running dry quickly. If the captains about to crash the ship  you cant turn a blind eye and go along with the ride and commend him for what a great ship he's built while your onboard, unless he corrects himself. So knc you now have the floor....  

 if they cannot correct themselves in time then were getting off board one way or the other whether that be amicably or though any legalities then so be it, but hopefully it wont come down to that and they surprise us all by over delivering in some form or fashion.

[xstr8guy]

I'm surprised no one has yet suggested that they could be "self mining" with our ASICs.   

[loktang1125]

I was just sending an email to Paypal risk department about KNC misconduct.  I am waiting for Paypal to reply tomorrow before I am going to get Visa , MasterCard , Discover and American Express take on KNC merchant account.    I believe they would love to read this forum and KNC forum to see how KNC conduct their business  with hundreds of customers complaining ..

Some people need a reality check.  Seriously, what KNC has achieved is commendable.  Ask yourselves what is more likely... KNC being somehow delinquent in their delivery or your expectations.

Chill the f out and give these guys the credit they deserve.

Thank you KNC, I mean that.

i will say some ppl get mad because we all made wrong diff estimate few month before

I'd say they get mad because they got it right or were even pessimistic on difficulty and worked the possibilities out using the latest date they would be mining according to the very very confident KnC ..and KnC didn't keep their word which made the estimates worthless.

what make them so confident about KNC will ship all rigs on time, did they look at other asic companies?
i did put a big question mark on all asic company after the BFL case
but the possible profit is greater than the risk base on my estimates, so i decided to pay
Honestly i feel lucky to paid quite early, but i think everyone should consider any kind of risk before you real give them your money
since some many ppl are getting negative, it is time for us to take a step back and think again your original plan.

PS: i am sorry for my bad english

[Paladin69]

I don't think this complaining is going to stop unless people get some sort of BTC compensation.  As someone mentioned earlier, the $7000 hole can not be climbed out of.  Much less the $5,000 hole in November.  Which is a good 4-5 difficulty changes away for people at the rate things are shipping.

yikes.  Get your refunds while you can.

[edgar]

i find it incredulous that ppl who have received their mining rigs have found the gall to tell us we should be grateful for the amazing feats 'KnC' have accomplished.

it is my understanding that OrSoc actually deserve the congrats while KnC deserve the scorn they have brought upon themselves by having nothing but confidence and silence in their customer service arsenal.

bitcoinorama is presumably doing his best but that really isnt good enough, especially when he claims he doenst even work for KnC.

as repeatedly asked by myself & others....


plenty of significant questions have been ignored repeatedly

just the same empty 'not my concern' posts, negating any consideration for the concerned buyers(aka businesses)

Revised ToS??

how many rigs per day?

how many yesterday?

how many today?

dodgy/variable chips?

8 vs 4 VRM? over-heating, under-performing, late arriving....

in one breath you say they are too busy to be answering all questions

the next breath you tell us to eat up more of their time by calling or 'visiting like you did'

if YOU, or ANYONE with even the slightest consideration for our concerns would merely answer the RELEVANT questions, there would be much less discomfort in here.

the silence is deafening

and the 'not me not my fault, look at avalon/bfl - lalalalala not listening' stuff is tired, and pathetic.

as is the backup 'KnC Rock' clan who would really prefer if our rigs NEVER arrived... or better yet arrive broken, unless they offer compensation at which point the KnC lovers will start to bleat.... Now its unfair!!!

And yet 'we' the as yet to receive our goods majority, are greedy etc....

str8 from Yifus customer service booklet!!

[Wesly]

I was just sending an email to Paypal risk department about KNC misconduct.  I am waiting for Paypal to reply tomorrow before I am going to get Visa , MasterCard , Discover and American Express take on KNC merchant account.    I believe they would love to read this forum and KNC forum to see how KNC conduct their business  with hundreds of customers complaining ..

Some people need a reality check.  Seriously, what KNC has achieved is commendable.  Ask yourselves what is more likely... KNC being somehow delinquent in their delivery or your expectations.

Chill the f out and give these guys the credit they deserve.

Thank you KNC, I mean that.

i will say some ppl get mad because we all made wrong diff estimate few month before

I'd say they get mad because they got it right or were even pessimistic on difficulty and worked the possibilities out using the latest date they would be mining according to the very very confident KnC ..and KnC didn't keep their word which made the estimates worthless.

Day 1 orders were supposed to be delivered by the end of summer (Sept 21st) but the bulk of Day 1 didn't arrive until 2 weeks later.  It is only reasonable to assume all other orders have been push back 1-2 weeks even without any additional issue like power or firmware issue.  I say it will be commendable if they can get all Oct 15th order out to their customers by Oct 22th, just 1 week late (compare to 2 weeks for Day Oners), despite all the issues they are having and working out.  Also remember when you order, you order something was supposed to hash at 60-80% of what they now delivered.  Furthermore, it is already looking more and more likely the next major ASIC manufacturer (Hashfast) will be late with their Batch 1 BabyJets.  I would say things are pretty much even out considering 1-2 PH won't hit the network for an additional 1-2 weeks at the very least and you will be hashing at 20+%  the hash rate you were promised when you purchased.

You newbies (danhu Date Registered:   September 28, 2013, 02:23:53 AM) obviously didn't appreciate 1-2 weeks delay.  That's downright exemplary compare to Avalon's 3-month silent no-news/no-communication/hiding-out-in-the-cave delay...  or you would rather KNC hires a Josh Impersonator that keep saying just 2 more weeks..   repeatedly for a year?  And when they finally deliver something that hash at half the speed they promise and 3x the power?