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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3029373 times)
The Avenger
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July 20, 2014, 10:47:08 PM
 #36901

"performed by circuits on the die" and "performed by a component on the board" are a bit different, no?

Yes, they are very different, and in this instance temperature sensing is "performed by circuits on the die".
So you are saying the "Temperature" column here is coming from a circuit on the die, not an LM75 component on the board?


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user27
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July 20, 2014, 10:53:15 PM
 #36902

So you are saying the "Temperature" column here is coming from a circuit on the die, not an LM75 component on the board?

It is not either an LM75 ic OR a circuit on the die because it is BOTH of those things. The LM75A (if that's what's installed) is "a temperature-to-digital converter using an on-chip band gap temperature sensor"; all it does is convert "temperature-to-digital" such that it can be presented as illustrated above.

How exactly do you think the LM75 would sense the temperature of the chip if it were not connected to a circuit on the die?

u27

The Avenger
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July 20, 2014, 10:55:42 PM
 #36903

So you are saying the "Temperature" column here is coming from a circuit on the die, not an LM75 component on the board?

It is not either an LM75 or a circuit on the die because it is both of those things. The LM75A (if that's what's installed) is "a temperature-to-digital converter using an on-chip band gap temperature sensor"; all it does is convert "temperature-to-digital" such that it can be presented as illustrated above.

How exactly do you think the LM75 would sense the temperature of the chip if it were not connected to a circuit on the die?

u27
If you are just going to play semantics of meaning, whatever.

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tolip_wen
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July 20, 2014, 11:22:01 PM
 #36904


Could you please have a look and let me know what the part numbers printed on top of those two black 8 pin IC packages near the edge of the board and between the two cables in your photo are ?

Please forgive me for just answering the fucking question that was asked.

One is an 
LM75
(closer to PCIe)

other is
24C32WP
k348k

It's the i2c EEprom

YMMV
Smiley


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The Avenger
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July 20, 2014, 11:29:14 PM
 #36905


Could you please have a look and let me know what the part numbers printed on top of those two black 8 pin IC packages near the edge of the board and between the two cables in your photo are ?

Please forgive me for just answering the fucking question that was asked.

One is an 
LM75
(closer to PCIe)

other is
24C32WP
k348k

It's the i2c EEprom

YMMV
Smiley



Thanks tolip.

And maybe you could give your opinion on the statement "Core temperature sensing is performed by circuits on the die"

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July 20, 2014, 11:51:09 PM
 #36906

Thanks tolip.

And maybe you could give your opinion on the statement "Core temperature sensing is performed by circuits on the die"

The LM75 measures it own case temperature.
There _IS_ a die in there though.

The original statement may have originated by someone who was wordlexic.
Die(s)/PCB/cube whatever.

I don't rely on that temp for much of anything.
I ALWAYS use the hottest temp I can find for cooling decisions.

As I type...
67C on bottom of PCB directly below ASIC
61C reported by LM75

I IR gunned the PCB temp.
I could probbably find hotter but bottom of PCB's is inside my pentagon with trapped V8 bottle.
It's tight in there and the bottle is not a cooperative captive.
http://i.imgur.com/9T8lRc2.jpg
Wink

YMMV
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dropt
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July 21, 2014, 12:04:00 AM
 #36907

So you are saying the "Temperature" column here is coming from a circuit on the die, not an LM75 component on the board?

It is not either an LM75 ic OR a circuit on the die because it is BOTH of those things. The LM75A (if that's what's installed) is "a temperature-to-digital converter using an on-chip band gap temperature sensor"

"On-chip" in this sense generally implies the sensor is included in the IC package, not that it's reading an external sensor (read: on the SHA256 ASIC Die).

Further, the datasheet doesn't show any inputs for an external sensor.  Thus, it is likely that it is reading the PCB/ambient around the place where it's mounted, not the ASIC chips core temperature.
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July 21, 2014, 12:38:03 AM
 #36908

There is nothing "on the die" sensing temperature.

There is an LM75 component (not on the die, but on the board aka PCB) that senses temperature.

Everything else is semantics.

As there is nothing "on the die" sensing temperature, the data from the LM75 is the only information available to give an indication of the asic core temperature. It's obviously not the actual real core temperature, as tolip's IR gun figures show, but the data on the status/advanced page is coming from the LM75 and not from any other source. Which is what I have been saying.

If you need any proof of this - carefully - put your finger on the LM75 and watch the temperature value on the web interface change.

For people who don't know what a die is, here are some educational links
http://diephotos.blogspot.co.uk/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit_packaging
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/56649/what-is-a-die-package (see the second answer, which starts "A DIE is the actual silicon chip (IC) that would normally be inside a package/chip.")

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July 21, 2014, 01:05:27 AM
 #36909

...the data on the status/advanced page is coming from the LM75 and not from any other source. Which is what I have been saying.

That is indeed what you keep saying and you are still wrong

Scratch that, yea, the basic LM75 does have the band gap sensor on-board. I was looking at the A version as I said in my post.

How about a schematic?

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July 21, 2014, 03:47:53 AM
 #36910

...the data on the status/advanced page is coming from the LM75 and not from any other source. Which is what I have been saying.

That is indeed what you keep saying and you are still wrong

Scratch that, yea, the basic LM75 does have the band gap sensor on-board. I was looking at the A version as I said in my post.

How about a schematic?

Nearly the same setup in automotive systems...  analog potentiometers(sensors) connected to a small chip(like LM775) dedicated to converting those analog signals into something readable(digital) by the main computer. (Beaglebone or ECU) The reading hits a preset limit, and thermal automatic shutdown initiates(interrupt line) to save the engine or in our case asics/vrm's. A simple "if/then/else" type processor(conditional) triggers the interrupt(linear actuator) when the preset limit is reached.
http://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/analog/sensors-and-sensor-interface/LM75.html
the automotive version:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm75b.pdf      Exactly the same unit with a few changes

inputs:  1. power
             2. analog sensor signals
output: 1. Digital conversions of the readings taken
             2. cutoff signal to linear actuator (or may be built in)
               


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LetItRide
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[BTC]▄█████████████▀ ▄█
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dropt
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July 21, 2014, 04:57:46 AM
 #36911


inputs:  1. power
             2. analog sensor signals
output: 1. Digital conversions of the readings taken
             2. cutoff signal to linear actuator (or may be built in)
               


There is no such analog sensor input on any of the lm75 revisions posted in the last couple of pages.
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July 21, 2014, 04:59:48 AM
 #36912


Scratch that, yea, the basic LM75 does have the band gap sensor on-board. I was looking at the A version as I said in my post.

How about a schematic?


And where on this "A" rev schematic does your proposed external sensor connect?
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July 21, 2014, 06:14:48 AM
 #36913

anybody on instagram? 4 KNC neptunes in action - http://instagram.com/p/qno9H4QqnY/

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July 21, 2014, 06:54:25 AM
 #36914

anybody on instagram? 4 KNC neptunes in action - http://instagram.com/p/qno9H4QqnY/

You've posted this poor-quality photo already in this thread. Incidentally, you are showing 4/5 of a single Neptune, not "4 KNC neptunes".
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July 21, 2014, 07:23:29 AM
 #36915

anybody on instagram? 4 KNC neptunes in action - http://instagram.com/p/qno9H4QqnY/

You've posted this poor-quality photo already in this thread. Incidentally, you are showing 4/5 of a single Neptune, not "4 KNC neptunes".

4/5 just about; also check out the power cables... surely it can't actually be running on that?

You just want hits on your instagram or something?

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July 21, 2014, 07:25:24 AM
 #36916


Scratch that, yea, the basic LM75 does have the band gap sensor on-board. I was looking at the A version as I said in my post.

How about a schematic?


And where on this "A" rev schematic does your proposed external sensor connect?

As above there is a "band gap sensor on-board" so no external sensor needed for LM75.

I still think the temps on the advanced page are from the die itself not from a sensor elsewhere on the board.

The Avenger
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July 21, 2014, 09:27:57 AM
 #36917

I still think the temps on the advanced page are from the die itself not from a sensor elsewhere on the board.

As there is nothing "on the die" sensing temperature, the data from the LM75 is the only information available to give an indication of the asic core temperature. It's obviously not the actual real core temperature, as tolip's IR gun figures show, but the data on the status/advanced page is coming from the LM75 and not from any other source. Which is what I have been saying.

If you need any proof of this - carefully - put your finger on the LM75 and watch the temperature value on the web interface change.


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July 21, 2014, 03:11:11 PM
 #36918

One of them is an LM75, as I've told you a dozen times  Cheesy

Don't mean to question your credibility Avenger as everyone knows that your posts are always fact based ~L)L~ but I would like independent confirmation of the device identity. For both of them.

If they are LM75 devices, then they are measuring the board temperature at their location and are not using a temperature diode on the ASIC. If they are some other chip, then they may be using a temperature diode on the ASIC chip.

Could someone please provide a nice close up showing these 2 devices ?
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July 21, 2014, 04:04:50 PM
 #36919

One of them is an LM75, as I've told you a dozen times  Cheesy

Don't mean to question your credibility Avenger as everyone knows that your posts are always fact based ~L)L~ but I would like independent confirmation of the device identity. For both of them.

If they are LM75 devices, then they are measuring the board temperature at their location and are not using a temperature diode on the ASIC. If they are some other chip, then they may be using a temperature diode on the ASIC chip.

Could someone please provide a nice close up showing these 2 devices ?

Just an FYI but It's _my_ credibility you have questioned.
I looked at the parts and reported here as asked.

I HAVE pics but will not provide to you. Tongue
Believe me or not, my day remains the same Smiley


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July 21, 2014, 04:53:53 PM
 #36920

As above there is a "band gap sensor on-board" so no external sensor needed for LM75.

I still think the temps on the advanced page are from the die itself not from a sensor elsewhere on the board.

Yes, I misread your statement to imply that the basic LM75 had the onboard sensor, but the 'A' rev that you were looking at previously did have those provisions, and that the schematic you were posting was of this alleged 'A' rev.
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