Devcoin

[markm]

Can someone explain why DVC hasn't taken off like Namecoin did? I think it's an awesome coin with a great concept. It's on 2 exchanges, but it's still worth almost nothing (read: cheap!)

Remember that DeVCoins are minted 50,000 per block not 50 per block! They are intended to be 1/1000 the value of typical 50 coin per block coins. Back when they were invented there was talk of having to move decimal points, so DeVCoin started out with its decimal point already moved three places, in effect.

So compare the value of 1000 DeVCoins to one of any other coin to get a better concept of value.

-MarkM-

[FinShaggy]

When is traffic going to start being a factor? Shares are about to start getting pretty small, so I think making a traffic payment system would be a good idea.

[emfox]

I just checked how many lines there would be, changed the account file location for the quote below and uploaded the summary:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/receiver_summary.txt

The account file is at:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/account_23.csv

There were 501 original receiver lines, so the average generation share was worth 180,000,000 dvc / 501 = 359,281 dvc. Administrator pay is 26.0 shares, 5.2 percent of the total.

People on that list will start getting those coins in round 23, starting at block 92,000. The procedure for generating the receiver files is at:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#generating_the_files

It would be good if someone ran all the files once in a while automatically with a cron job. It has to be automatic, because doing it manually every day is too much work.

I can mange to do this.

let me know if this is enough?

git pull
python devtome.py -round 23
python marketing.py -round 23
python account.py -round 23

If it's ok, how do I know when to change 23 to 24 or any further round number? I see you have changed the switch time  from +1000 to +1300 then +1600 of the previous round starting block.

[Unthinkingbit]

..
I can mange to do this.

let me know if this is enough?

git pull
python devtome.py -round 23
python marketing.py -round 23
python account.py -round 23

Edit: I just saw that you were pulling the entire repository. So yes, that is the correct order. Round 23 is done, I'm only going to change a couple of addresses as they get updated, so run round 24.

If it's ok, how do I know when to change 23 to 24 or any further round number? I see you have changed the switch time  from +1000 to +1300 then +1600 of the previous round starting block.

I announce the generation of the receiver files on this thread. Also, you're going to be one of the admins (you're third on the seniority list and I'm waiting for an answer from the second), so you'll know when a new file is generated.

[emfox]

OK, I've done setup the crontab, it will be run at 00:30@UTC+0 every day, all results and logs could be viewed at http://d.evco.in/charity/
, you could see the round summary particularly at http://d.evco.in/charity/receiver_summary.txt

I also provide a log located at http://d.evco.in/charity.log, so everyone could check the details of the earning of his own and others.

In case anyone interested in the gen script, it's at http://d.evco.in/gen_charity.sh:

#!/bin/bash

ROUND=24
cd /home/devcoin/www/charity
git reset --hard
git pull
python devtome.py -round $ROUND
python marketing.py -round $ROUND
python account.py -round $ROUND

[FinShaggy]

If you can't think of anything to write on Devtome, getting traffic is second best to earning coins for writing.

Some people may feel like getting traffic is hard, but there is a great new tool. It's a website that has people post a link that YOU choose on their facebook or twitter. You can also submit links for raw page views, as well as ask for facebook likes, comments and shares. So post your Devtome article links and get some easy traffic.

here's the link:
http://socialmediaexplode.com/?r=131994

The way it works is:
You earn coins for viewing YouTube videos, or tweeting things, or liking/viewing pages.
You use those coins and other people view/like etc YOUR stuff

[Unthinkingbit]

Veruminnumeris:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:veruminnumeris

has written more than a thousand words:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=a_future_money
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=a_future_money_part_2
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=faraday_survival_emp

and so got the sixth, one generation share signing bonus for writing:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing#signing_bonus

There are now four, one share bonuses remaining. The writer will also get earnings per word:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing#earnings_per_word

[Vlad2Vlad]

Well,
My new logo didn't seem so bad to me.
My mistake.
Hope to see only one final logo on devtome.com, accepted and used by all the community members.

Your logo is not bad in any way and perhaps it's exactly what the owners of devcoin are looking for.  It's unique in it's own way.  Me personally, I see this digital currency as a new wave of the future, a new era of payments, business, and even a new way of investing with new markets, etc.  So for someone like me, my perception of what a new digital coin should look and feel like is out of this world, global, new and digital.  I'm almost done with my coin design but I'm so bad with photo shop that the last portion which is basically painting the coin is taking me literally tens of hours which is so frustrating.  Hopefully I'll have time to get it done before the contest is over because I'm also trying to keep up with writing as that's the only affordable and feasible way for me right now to earn digital coins.  Well, I've tried mining and it was a dead end and I've bought some but all of these various coins carry a lot of inherent risk so I cannot afford to speculate all of my savings or I should say, the little of what's left of my life savings.

As for your coin, ask the "Hero" guys on here, it's gonna be their votes that count.  And if you get shot down don't give up just try again but next time try emptying your head first and hopefully then your design will be something your eyes have never seen and that's when you know you're on the right track.  good luck, man.

regards,

Vlad

[Vlad2Vlad]

Can someone explain why DVC hasn't taken off like Namecoin did? I think it's an awesome coin with a great concept. It's on 2 exchanges, but it's still worth almost nothing (read: cheap!)

Remember that DeVCoins are minted 50,000 per block not 50 per block! They are intended to be 1/1000 the value of typical 50 coin per block coins. Back when they were invented there was talk of having to move decimal points, so DeVCoin started out with its decimal point already moved three places, in effect.

So compare the value of 1000 DeVCoins to one of any other coin to get a better concept of value.

-MarkM-

Mark, even if you move devcoin's decimal place 3 places over you still only get $.04.  That's 4 cents compared to roughly $1 for Namecoin which used to cost $.001 just around 90 days ago.  So while Namecoin shot up 1,000 fold devcoin I think stayed the same or maybe went down, I'm not sure as I wasn't around back then. 

It has me wondering as well and I think it's 2 main factors.  1) dilution, I don't know how many namecoins are out there but I'm certain it's probably less, much less by even a factor of 1,000 and 2) awareness.  Namecoin shot up when bitcoin went up and for some reason I instinctively went with namecoin as my first choice and devcoin as my second choice.  I'm not even sure why as I did this without any research.  So out of all the coins out there the name itself, Namecoin I think attracted attention when people started reading up on Bitcoin and decided to bet on the next bitcoin 2.0.  It was just dumb luck I think combined with much lower coin count which when demand shot up then the price spiked due to a lower supply.

This is why devcoin I believe needs a facelift, a great new face in a new coin.   I hope this contest you guys have going brings in some really NEW looking coins.  that's key, not just beautiful and interesting and minimalistic but NEW.  That's cause all of this is new and the new coin overall has to tell a story at a glance.  It has to feel like you're looking at the future, a revolution in digital currencies which is what this is. 

I predict in the next 12 months there's gonna be 100 different new digital coins on the market and some of those will be ran like a business by marketing types and some will have wild success even if it will be temporary.  What I'm saying is devcoin's time to be noticed is limited and if devcoin can't stand out when it sits among 5 or 6 other decent coins then who will notice or buy devcoin in a year if I'm right and the new bigger and better exchanges will be filled with over 100 digital coins?  This window of opportunity is closing more and more every day so I hope there's a plan to move devcoin into the next phase of awareness and growth.

I asked this question yesterday but I haven't seen an answer.  does the designer of the winning new coin, the new face of devcoin, does that individual forfeit all rights to that design going forward or is there some flexibility there?  TIA

[markm]

I asked this question yesterday but I haven't seen an answer.  does the designer of the winning new coin, the new face of devcoin, does that individual forfeit all rights to that design going forward or is there some flexibility there?  TIA

It is all free open source, for images that usually means some kind of "creative commons" license. Free for anyone to use, to create derivative works from etc. Maybe an "attribution" thing where they have to retain a notice that you made it. So you get eternal fame like Andy Warhol got from being the designer of Campbells' Soup labels. Except they didn't have to actually write on the labels that he designed it, so I guess there was no "attribution" clause there.

-MarkM-

[Vlad2Vlad]

I asked this question yesterday but I haven't seen an answer.  does the designer of the winning new coin, the new face of devcoin, does that individual forfeit all rights to that design going forward or is there some flexibility there?  TIA

It is all free open source, for images that usually means some kind of "creative commons" license. Free for anyone to use, to create derivative works from etc. Maybe an "attribution" thing where they have to retain a notice that you made it. So you get eternal fame like Andy Warhol got from being the designer of Campbells' Soup labels. Except they didn't have to actually write on the labels that he designed it, so I guess there was no "attribution" clause there.

-MarkM-

how can I post the coin I've been working on so far on here?  I'm not able to upload it as my profile pic (it's about 9 megs) so I don't know how else I can do it.  it's not finished but I wanna get some input from guys like you mark and unthinkingbit and fuzzybear.  I'm putting so many hours into this coin cause I can't draw nor do I know how to use photoshop that I wanna just stop unless it's soething you guys really like.  Please let me know.

[Vlad2Vlad]

[/quote]

Awesome

I'm gonna be mining after this
And getting some pretty cool community oriented stuff going
And I'm going to drive traffic to Devtome
[/quote]

How are you gonna mine and what are you gonna mine?  I tried mining and it was worthless.  just a waste of electricity.  Maybe when my butterfly labs rigs get here it will be worth it but by then I doubt it since everyone will have one and the difficulty will go even higher.  If you know something new I'd appreciate hearing about it.   TIA

[weisoq]

I don't think changing the mechanics of a cryptocurrency is a small thing. The decimal issue is arbitrary really; I understand what you mean about perception, although I quite like that it makes it more accessible.

Dilution - here I actually seem to disagree with most of the crypto community. I think it's the deflationary nature of most currencies that will largely consign them to the historic dustbin long-term as a standalone winning idea. As any sort of global medium of exchange, to facilitate transactions, and most importantly debt, it needs to be stable. Such an approach assumes an economic system that no longer exists or at best isn't coming back soon. In fact this deflation is one reason people keep creating new chains.

With a consumer, credit, debt fuelled economy one cannot build in deflation and expect it to last with broad appeal. Doesn't mean it can't work for some as an asset, but could become a hot potato as a liability. Why would I want to owe units of an inherently appreciating currency? I wouldn't. Imagine say bitcoin really took off in global trade, I have no doubt that to deal with the deflationary nature there'd be more blockchains created. In fact I have a basic thesis with cryptocurrencies that, after adjusting for numbers/creation rate/other technicalities, they will in the long term all converge to the same price, because there is zero limitation on creating a new one and therefore no real scarcity beyond perception. Where would you price an asset/commodity of unlimited quantity?

Devcoin approaches it differently. It's technically deflationary, but for all practical purposes it isn't. So rather than being a downside it's an upside for adoption especially when paired with debt backing. There's debt, that's why it can work. There may be x number of dvc, but if y (where y>x) are owed, and apparently this is the case, this is quite different to current perception. Again contrary to most people's opinion, if the bitcoin or litecoin or whatever algorithm can be duplicated-ish ad-infinitum there's an argument to say the supply of those is actual less limited than a currency with a defined constant block rate serving a particular function that doesn't lend itself to direct replication. Just my opinion though and not a statement against btc, ltc or any other concepts out there.

Your coin, quite a build up so look forward to seeing it. Payments - guess that's a matter for the founders, but I think the essence is one of open-source.

[markm]

There is massively more debt denominated in DeVCoins than there are DeVCoins. I don't even know how many years it would take for DeVCoins equal to just the current debt to be created, and of course unless the debt is paid interest will have increased it by then.

I suppose it might be interesting to try to figure out whether the current interest is accumulating debt faster than coins are being minted!

-MarkM-

[Vlad2Vlad]

There is massively more debt denominated in DeVCoins than there are DeVCoins. I don't even know how many years it would take for DeVCoins equal to just the current debt to be created, and of course unless the debt is paid interest will have increased it by then.

I suppose it might be interesting to try to figure out whether the current interest is accumulating debt faster than coins are being minted!

-MarkM-

I'm sorry, what do you mean?  devcoins or its parent company currently has massive unpaid debt?  About how much of each round's coins goes toward servicing the debt each month?  Cause if that's the case, unless there's a viable business plan in the works this will be a downward spiral until so many devcoins are issued that they will literally be worth less than the cost to buy or sell them, or basically not worth selling even if someone were to give them away for free.  This is the kind of information which is next to impossible to find out about any digital coins out there and part of what makes all these coins very risky.  One more reason why mining is a better idea over outright buying them....well, when mining used to work.

[Vlad2Vlad]

I don't think changing the mechanics of a cryptocurrency is a small thing. The decimal issue is arbitrary really; I understand what you mean about perception, although I quite like that it makes it more accessible.

Dilution - here I actually seem to disagree with most of the crypto community. I think it's the deflationary nature of most currencies that will largely consign them to the historic dustbin long-term as a standalone winning idea. As any sort of global medium of exchange, to facilitate transactions, and most importantly debt, it needs to be stable. Such an approach assumes an economic system that no longer exists or at best isn't coming back soon. In fact this deflation is one reason people keep creating new chains.

With a consumer, credit, debt fuelled economy one cannot build in deflation and expect it to last with broad appeal. Doesn't mean it can't work for some as an asset, but could become a hot potato as a liability. Why would I want to owe units of an inherently appreciating currency? I wouldn't. Imagine say bitcoin really took off in global trade, I have no doubt that to deal with the deflationary nature there'd be more blockchains created. In fact I have a basic thesis with cryptocurrencies that, after adjusting for numbers/creation rate/other technicalities, they will in the long term all converge to the same price, because there is zero limitation on creating a new one and therefore no real scarcity beyond perception. Where would you price an asset/commodity of unlimited quantity?

Devcoin approaches it differently. It's technically deflationary, but for all practical purposes it isn't. So rather than being a downside it's an upside for adoption especially when paired with debt backing. There's debt, that's why it can work. There may be x number of dvc, but if y (where y>x) are owed, and apparently this is the case, this is quite different to current perception. Again contrary to most people's opinion, if the bitcoin or litecoin or whatever algorithm can be duplicated-ish ad-infinitum there's an argument to say the supply of those is actual less limited than a currency with a defined constant block rate serving a particular function that doesn't lend itself to direct replication. Just my opinion though and not a statement against btc, ltc or any other concepts out there.

Your coin, quite a build up so look forward to seeing it. Payments - guess that's a matter for the founders, but I think the essence is one of open-source.

Point taken but where do you stop diliuting?  eventually dilution leads to non-existence and debt is never a good thing unless you're borrowing at 3% to invest at 7% and i'm sure devcoin is lucky to be borrowing at anything under 10% as it has no real assets and is perceived as high risk.  so combine the debt which is growing and dilution which is also growing and growing very fast and you've got a 2 headed monster which will soon eat the entire house unless there's a plan.  A great and doable business plan.  WEll, does anyone know of one?   Cause I'm not sure this digital currency revolution is gonna come fast enough to drive devcoin prices sky high soon enough and fast enough to save it.  Now i'm getting a bit worried.  But there is still hope albeit, it's looking bleak from what I'm hearing now.

[markm]

I'm sorry, what do you mean?  devcoins or its parent company currently has massive unpaid debt?  About how much of each round's coins goes toward servicing the debt each month?  Cause if that's the case, unless there's a viable business plan in the works this will be a downward spiral until so many devcoins are issued that they will literally be worth less than the cost to buy or sell them, or basically not worth selling even if someone were to give them away for free.  This is the kind of information which is next to impossible to find out about any digital coins out there and part of what makes all these coins very risky.  One more reason why mining is a better idea over outright buying them....well, when mining used to work.

A lot of games give players various stuff when they start the game.

This can lead to flooding the game with "starting gear" simply by creating thousands of player accounts purely for the purpose of accumulating all the free stuff new players get.

Thus we load players with debt, that is, we assume their starting gear was obtained by taking out loans.

Over time this has led to vast amounts of debt, and because most other currencies in the game appreciated in value much faster than DeVCoins, DeVCoins became the preferred currency to re-finance debt into for any players who could find refinancing denominated in DeVCoins.

General Financial Corp specialised in providing such financing, it managed to talk the Martians into loaning it a huge amount of wealth and into denominating that debt in DeVCoins instead of in, for example, Martian BotCoins.

Then GFC refinanced a whole bunch of intergalactic mining corps, in DeVCoins but at double the interest rate GFC was paying to the Martians for their bulk loan.

As can be seen from the tables and plots at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html this has worked out very lucrative for GFC, and thus for the value of GFC shares (the asset known as sGFC).

These loans are of course all secured loans; in fact, almost all the corps did in fact get repossessed already, and are now controlled by repo corps. The intergalactic mining operations are not only lucrative, they are also essential to the security of the home galaxies, because looking at all the similar intergalactic games out there we can see that typically species or races or guilds or groups or corps or entities or whatnot that you meet out among far flung galaxies are very hostile. So the home galaxies need this inner set of mining operations in far galaxies in order to build jump gates to reach even farther galaxies where they will set up their outer defense galaxies.

So ultimately the civilised worlds cannot really allow the mining operations to fail, else some day hordes of alien deathstars will inevitably descend upon the homeworlds like swarms of locusts.

-MarkM-

[weisoq]

Point taken but where do you stop diliuting?  eventually dilution leads to non-existence and debt is never a good thing unless you're borrowing at 3% to invest at 7% and i'm sure devcoin is lucky to be borrowing at anything under 10% as it has no real assets and is perceived as high risk.  so combine the debt which is growing and dilution which is also growing and growing very fast and you've got a 2 headed monster which will soon eat the entire house unless there's a plan.  A great and doable business plan.  WEll, does anyone know of one?   Cause I'm not sure this digital currency revolution is gonna come fast enough to drive devcoin prices sky high soon enough and fast enough to save it.  Now i'm getting a bit worried.  But there is still hope albeit, it's looking bleak from what I'm hearing now.

I think you're misunderstanding the debt issue. Devcoin is a concept but also the currency. The debt is in devcoin to be repaid in devcoin, or other I believe. Devcoins are created once, per the blockchain, further claims are assets/liabilities. Even if there was a 'devcoin inc' who owed everything to elsewhere, for the sake of underwriting the sustainability of the currency it doesn't matter who owes whom. If you and I transact leaving me owing you $100 that transaction assures at least one more person/economic activity than previously has an interest in not letting the $ go to zero. This is the same with DVC or any other medium of exchange/store of value.

Some of this is going to come down to personal beliefs I guess, but I think you're also misunderstanding the nature of debt and dilution. Firstly, whether debt is a good thing or not depends on many factors. Prospective price appreciation, inflation/deflation, interest rate etc. And so whether dilution is a good thing also depends on similar factors, largely depending which side of a balance sheet you're on. This is the problem with non-dilutive currencies. With enough interests on both side of transactions a currency is sustainable. When a majority are just selling fiat to buy crypto and hoarding as an asset it isn't.

Oh, and in case you're wondering wtf (as I did, still do a bit to be fair) markm is referring to gaming and his developments in that area (markm and anybody else, please tell me where I'm wrong on the debt issue if I am).

Edit: markm, something just dawned on me from what you wrote - does your gaming development/creation actually incorporate real devcoin mining in the game? If so that closes a loop in my understanding of what you're saying.

[Balthozar]

Awesome

I'm gonna be mining after this
And getting some pretty cool community oriented stuff going
And I'm going to drive traffic to Devtome
[/quote]

How are you gonna mine and what are you gonna mine?  I tried mining and it was worthless.  just a waste of electricity.  Maybe when my butterfly labs rigs get here it will be worth it but by then I doubt it since everyone will have one and the difficulty will go even higher.  If you know something new I'd appreciate hearing about it.   TIA
[/quote]

I mine alt currencies with my laptop, new stuff that pops up, I have a small stash of FRC and YAC, although I fear YAC may be a bust. When I get paid this round, I am going to build a rig to mine LTC and maybe DVC to speed up the network. Fin and I work together in some aspects of that.

[FinShaggy]

If you can't think of anything to write on Devtome, getting traffic is second best to earning coins for writing.

Some people may feel like getting traffic is hard, but there is a great new tool. It's a website that has people post a link that YOU choose on their facebook or twitter. You can also submit links for raw page views, as well as ask for facebook likes, comments and shares. So post your Devtome article links and get some easy traffic.

here's the link:
http://socialmediaexplode.com/?r=131994

The way it works is:
You earn coins for viewing YouTube videos, or tweeting things, or liking/viewing pages.
You use those coins and other people view/like etc YOUR stuff

Incase anyone missed ^^this^^ ^^^