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1821  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL Experience on: April 24, 2014, 12:10:51 PM
My biggest question is what is the BFL plan going forward.  When they originally started selling, 5GH, 30GH, 60GH, and the whopper were all great offers for the money.

Now we're in a world of still current vaporware from KNC, Bitfury, a screwed up Avalon situation, and people itching for the new AM blades.  Every one of those products is offering a better (Hash x Timeframe x Price x Difficulty estimates) => value right now considering ordering a Jalapeno today may see it get to you in October/November.  

So while I'm pretty confident I'll get my 30GH/s unit (and had a very positive experience with BFL customer service after the week+ wait to hear back), I can't say it'll be more hash-valuable than my little farm of usbs right now (currently at 8HG).  And getting a Jalapeno at 5GH now is almost pointless, so are we going to hear about a next generation?  Are early customers going to see some form of discount on v2 hardware since when we paid the value was there and when most of us take ownership it won't be?  It's a long, tough situation, but like most other scenarios it is throwing money at a company with no guarantee of delivery.

I'd love to hear the BFL 2014 plan.


How are your Monarch orders everyone? BFL 2014 plan Reactor? Same as 2013 and 2012 late product and not hope in hell to ROI.
1822  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL Experience on: April 24, 2014, 08:13:17 AM
Let me get this straight...

1. You didn't buy directly from BFL.
2. You bought a unit made by BFL that had failed due to "water damage" not something else like a straight up product failure.
3. You got an immediate reply for RMA and they repaired it / replaced it even though you admitted you were not the original purchaser? (That is counter to the 100's of RMA complaints of paid customers in hundreds of posts in multiple locations) What year and month was your RMA?
4. That tells you, ignoring all the other threads and complaints, they are a great company that stands behind their products?

I guess your experience proves you got exceptional service. What it doesn't prove is a pattern and given the 100's of complaints posted regarding RMA, slow email response times I might question the veracity of your statement without evidence. We have seen unfortunately a sustained pattern from BFL to use multiple accounts and paid people to promote BFL. How about we see some documentation of the RMA paperwork? Pictures of the unit and the water damage and then the replacement or repaired unit?

I hate that we can't actually trust someone but given the lengths that BFL goes to spread misinformation and promote itself as reputable player in the market you just can't accept things at face value.

I see you still have yet to respond to the questions I asked about the evidence against BFL, the rude and uncalled for behavior of Josh Zerlan here on these forums and BFL forums to customer queries? Hundreds of deleted posts and banned customers? I wonder why you want to avoid that discussion at all? That is typically what many paid promoters of BFL have done in the past. That doesn't really strike me as genuine. I am not trying to argue with you if you have the evidence and I am sure that on occasion BFL has done the right thing but given the evidence it is hard to believe you can't see all the negatives.

Check this thread to see what I mean:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=344105.0

Here is a sample: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324891.msg3481907#msg3481907

Quote
we have been getting reports for DOA jalla Bfl miners crapping out . Took BFL two weeks to answer the email then consumers shipped the jalla back and weeks later still waiting. Total time mining for consumer 2 weeks .Total wait time 7 months two weeks and yet to get a return miner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EskGPF5EN4Q
1823  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL Product Failures / Underperformance. on: April 24, 2014, 08:12:16 AM
Anyone else have some Product Failures / Underperformance to report?
1824  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL Experience on: April 24, 2014, 06:21:09 AM
How would you explain all the abusive behavior in these forums from Inaba, BFL_Josh towards those who were / are customers merely asking basic questions on shipping and problems with their units? All of the bans and post deletions from the BFL forums for similar questions and complaints? Also that BFL is trying to buy trust ratings in this forum to bolster their profile and sell more Monarchs?

It might be that your singular experience they are a great company to deal with but there is more than enough evidence to point to the fact they are one of the worst companies in Bitcoin at this time. The multiple lawsuits are just the tip of the iceberg and it is clear that Sonny V. has a probation officer that has read mounds of reports to the fact BFL has not been doing business very ethically. You don't get 2 more years probation without some just reasoning. Read the arstechnica article and some of the lawsuits and them come back and comment on that.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/04/digging-for-answers-the-strong-smell-of-fraud-from-one-bitcoin-miner-maker/

I might ask what did you purchase from BFL and when did you purchase it? And when did it arrive?

Nothing to hide?

Quote
One of the noteworthy revelations is that Butterfly Labs acquired a local Kansas-based Bitcoin mining pool, Eclipse Mining Consortium, for $100,000 in 2012. The pool's founder, Josh Zerlan, is now a vice president at BFL. (Zerlan publicly announced that he took a job with BFL in 2012, but he did not mention that he actually sold his company to BFL. Zerlan did not respond to a request for comment for this article.)
1825  Other / Off-topic / Re: I Have Something To Confess on: April 23, 2014, 04:22:58 PM
What is your binomial slave name given to you by your oppressors?
1826  Other / Off-topic / Re: A BFL ASIC 1000 BTC bet that looks like Inaba lost on: April 23, 2014, 04:21:00 PM
What he hasn't paid off his bet?
1827  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: [Special Group Buy - Spondoolies-Tech SP30 pre-order] ***EASTER WEEK SALE*** on: April 23, 2014, 03:49:14 PM
Is there a list or will SpondooliesTech contact us after the timer runs out?

Also if I order more will all my orders be counted / fabricated / shipped as the first one in the queue or the last one in the queue?

As previously said Spondoolies Tech planned to contact customers after GB reaches the 250 units mark. I think today everyone should receive an e-mail, if not then tomorrow.

Regarding the shipping queue i'm think that for a very small number of extra units you can keep your shipping queue IF there aren't so many that are requesting that. This is not something official though, but i find it reasonable to keep your queue for 1-2 extra units if there is a small number of customers that is requesting that. Up until now you would be the first so i don't think it's such a big deal. Spondoolies can give you a final answer on that.

Thanks. I will double check with them. I did receive the email today from them thanks Roadstress.
1828  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Review of the Spondoolies-Tech SP10 „Dawson“ Bitcoin miner (1.4 TH/s) on: April 23, 2014, 09:58:13 AM
So I take it is loud. LOL.

Waiting for a more detailed review of the unit.

Do you think there is anyway beside firmware to baffle the sound?
1829  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: [Special Group Buy - Spondoolies-Tech SP30 pre-order] ***EASTER WEEK SALE*** on: April 23, 2014, 08:21:04 AM
Is there a list or will SpondooliesTech contact us after the timer runs out?

Also if I order more will all my orders be counted / fabricated / shipped as the first one in the queue or the last one in the queue?
1830  Other / Meta / Re: 100,000 Bitcointalk Users on: April 23, 2014, 08:14:05 AM
50,000 BFL multiple accounts... but ya 300K + is great.
1831  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: nTek Computers | World's Most Powerful Bitcoin Miner - 2.4Th/s (to 3.2Th/s) on: April 23, 2014, 03:17:49 AM
I dont understand the reason to buy this (and others like it).

I can can get 2 TH right now on CEX.io for that price can't I?  Is my math wrong:

1.2 TH unit (1.6 TH in turbo which probably draws more power) = 8499.

So:

8499/$500 = 16.998 BTC

Current CEX.io price of .0085/gh so: 16.998/.0085 = 1999 GH

And if you use pbmining: 16.998/.0056 = 3035 GH..

It just doesnt make sense to me.  Am i missing something?

And if i am not..  Here is a link to where you can get 3 TH immediately for the price of the 1.2 TH unit:
http://pbmining.com?ref=robocoder

Disclaimer, this is my referral URL - please use if i just gave you a way to get more than twice the hashpower with no preorder.  All my money goes to ARF anyway..



CEX.io? Really... have we not all agreed to not use that as it consolidates way too much hashing power in a single groups hands?

Isn't this about nTek and not promotion of CEX.io as that is WIDLY off topic?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1uta1v/the_real_issue_is_cexio_not_ghashio/

Quote
The real issue is CEX.IO, not GHash.IO! (self.Bitcoin)

After researching the issue further I've come to the conclusion that it is not actually GHash.IO that is the real issue.

True, unlike most other pools, GHash.IO only publishes 250KB blocks (at most). This demonstrates either short sighted selfishness or simply an ignorant attitude to the recent increase in network transactions and the occasional "traffic jams" caused by that.

The real issue in terms of the 51% problem is CEX.IO. In their fresh from the oven statement (https://ghash.io/ghashio_press_release.pdf) they claim that one of the solutions is to allow users of CEX.IO to point the datacenter mining power to another pool.

That does not help with the problem. Either CEX.IO operators or an attacking hijacker can theoretically take control of the datacenter hashing power and point it anywhere.
The pool (GHash.IO) is not the issue nor are individual miners. All of that is irrelevant. In case of foul play it is trivial for individual miners to start pointing their miners to other pools. The centralized hashing power in the hands of CEX.IO is another story, and that is the real issue.

Long term the most realistic solution is that CEX.IO gets competition. More cloud mining services, more datacenters. Short term I think that people should not invest in mining through CEX.IO.
1832  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: nTek Computers | World's Most Powerful Bitcoin Miner - 2.4Th/s (to 3.2Th/s) on: April 23, 2014, 03:06:45 AM
They've made a lot of promises before and not delivered anything. If not a scam they're at least a BFL-style preorder scheme, taking orders before they even have a product design.

I think they have always been acted in good faith, unfortunately the number of board respins, as Ben said, have caused the delays as the original design was flawed but they are trying to recover from that as best they can. Unlike BFL they are not refusing to compensate those waiting given the emails sent out. They are offering compensation for late delivery again if I am not mistaken and that is a proactive result of their failure to deliver on time unlike BFL who are being dragged kicking to court and even then they refused to pay out what they owe people. nTek exposure is a lot smaller than BFL and given that you can email Ry directly and discuss their problems as a customer they are nothing like BFL.
1833  Other / Meta / Re: Bicknellski is abusing negative trust ratings. on: April 23, 2014, 01:47:50 AM
Bicknellski is in the default trust network via CanaryInTheMine. You should contact him.

I really don't want to be in any default trust although I would prefer that people who do REAL business with me or know of my character give me a trust rating that reflects that reality. Canary please remove me from that list if you can thanks. I have not earned that right and I am decidedly BIAS against BFL and BFL shills as they have defamed me on a number of occasions in this forum and it is clearly my goal to make sure everyone knows what kind of horrific people they are and I do that knowing full well I can't be impartial. Josh Zerlan threatened to get me fired and he also insinuated that I was a pedophile, so you can imagine default trust is something of an impossibility for me to have as I am hardly impartial enough to be a default trust member particularly when it comes to my interpretation of what BFL is as a company. BFL in my little corner of the world are bereft all ethical and moral underpinnings and I will let anyone in earshot or with this forum know what sort of company they really are from my personal point of view. I can tell that the Judge in Sonny's probation case certainly thinks BFL is on the wrong road and given how Josh Zerlan has treated people in this forum I am very hopeful that justice ends in him seeking a plea bargain to escape the orange jumpsuit and him ratting out Sonny V. There is stench but it certainly isn't the trust system it is BFL and anyone related to BFL that promotes them.

The judge's most damning comments, however, centered on his overall BFL observations:

Quote
Now, there is a stench coming from Butterfly Labs. It's a strong smell. It's not enough to send you to prison today, because, to be quite honest with you, if it was, we'd be talking about 24 months in prison. It's not—I think it's too close. I think [defense witness] Mr. Bourne did a very good job of testifying, and it assisted your defense greatly. But if I find out that there is this fraud word involved in this part, you know, Mr. Vleisides, as we say here at the courthouse, you need to get your toothbrush and get your things in order, because fraud will not be tolerated, you understand that? So I would work very hard to make these consumers happy consumers who you've dealt with.
1834  Other / Meta / Re: Bicknellski is abusing negative trust ratings. on: April 23, 2014, 01:38:42 AM
So BFL is trolling the forum and Bicknellski runs in random directions trying to cry for help by the equivalent of punching random people in the face?

I also got this via PM:
Don't shill for BFL.

I find this funny because I am one of the few people on this board who tried to warn the community about BFL over a year ago, but oh well this is Bitcoin.  You never know if by some chance some random stranger comes along and hates you for whatever reason.  Shocked

I apologize. I posted a negative trust on you in error. The fact is I use the negative trust to "promote" the class action lawsuit is only to be directed at those who have left me or spammed my account with negative trust that is unrelated to any business I have done, as well as known BFL shills, who continue to promote BFL products and services that are now well documented 'attempts' to defraud people. Again I am sorry for the error you are correct you did warn people off of BFL over a year ago. Please accept my apology I have left positive feedback given the long and hallowed posts you have have made in the Economy oriented areas of this board. But I still keep you on ignore as at times you can be a complete douche / troll as well. Good does outweigh the bad here but I don't care to read your negative thoughts and Ad hominem attacks against others.
1835  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: [Special Group Buy - Spondoolies-Tech SP30 pre-order] ***EASTER WEEK SALE*** on: April 22, 2014, 08:37:11 AM
Would you be interested in extending the deadline and offer a further savings for a new target number of orders?  Grin
1836  Other / Meta / Re: Those who are Spamming the trust system. Action needs to be taken! on: April 22, 2014, 08:03:19 AM
Latest New Spammer for BFL Trust System Fraud

DOGEDAMAN NEW SPAMMER!

you need to get your toothbrush and get your things in order.

Have you read the latest on BFL?



Quote
Despite the testimony of Bourne and other witnesses, Judge Kays
expressed clear reservations about BFL's business and Vleisides' involvement in a company
taking so much cash up front. He ordered two supplementary years of supervision for
Vleisides, along with a new set of conditions that include regular government
access to his "person, his property, house, residence, office, vehicle, papers, computer, other
electronic communication or data, storage devices or media, and effects."
He said Vleisides must work with Pierce "to communicate, create transparencies.
Any loan, especially $64,000 or whatever it is, is something she needs to know
about before it's made, no matter [what]."

The judge's most damning comments, however, centered on his overall BFL observations:

Now, there is a stench coming from Butterfly Labs. It's a strong smell. It's not
enough to send you to prison today, because, to be quite honest with you,
if it was, we'd be talking about 24 months in prison. It's not—I think it's too close.
I think [defense witness] Mr. Bourne did a very good job of testifying, and it assisted
your defense greatly. But if I find out that there is this fraud word involved in this part,
you know, Mr. Vleisides, as we say here at the courthouse, you need to get your
toothbrush and get your things in order, because fraud will not be tolerated,
you understand that?
So I would work very hard to make these consumers
happy consumers who you've dealt with.

Quote
One of the noteworthy revelations is that Butterfly Labs acquired a local Kansas-based
Bitcoin mining pool, Eclipse Mining Consortium, for $100,000 in 2012. The pool's founder,
Josh Zerlan, is now a vice president at BFL. (Zerlan publicly announced that he took a
job with BFL in 2012, but he did not mention that he actually sold his company to BFL.
Zerlan did not respond to a request for comment for this article.)
Code:
Digging for answers: The “strong smell” of fraud from one Bitcoin miner maker

A Butterfly Labs exec loses a probation hearing, but details from the case are worse.

by Cyrus Farivar - Apr 22 2014, 11:00am


For many crypto-minded libertarians, Bitcoin is the future of money. But that dream
hasn't been helped much by the numerous high-profile legal cases involving the currency
in recent years: The Bitcoin Savings and Trust hedge fund collapsed; uncertainty fueled
the implosion of Mt. Gox, the currency's largest exchange; and the high-profile Silk Road
takedown is a treacherous story combining Bitcoin, drugs, and alleged murders.

For now, though, one company sits above all others when it comes to cultivating a new
level of direct customer mistrust in the Bitcoin community: Butterfly Labs.

For the past year, the Kansas-based Bitcoin miner maker has been embroiled in numerous
accusations of fraud. Customer orders, totaling millions of dollars, were significantly delayed
or never fulfilled. Through it all, the company insisted that mere manufacturing delays were
to blame. However, suspicion never died down. In fact, it's getting worse after it came to
light that Butterfly Labs' largest shareholder—a man who is a company co-founder, current
"Innovation Officer," and member of the board of directors—pled guilty in 2010 to one count
of mail fraud (PDF) for his involvement in an international, multi-million dollar lottery scam.

For months now, Butterfly Labs has faced anger regarding delayed orders.

Now, the company's critics have fresh ammunition because of this same executive. A federal
judge in Kansas has ruled that the man in question, Sonny Vleisides, violated the terms of
his probation in the lottery scam case. As a result, Vleisides’ probation—previously slated to
end in September 2013—will now continue for another two years. This ruling is Butterfly Labs'
least concern. In light of new details from the recently published transcript of that January
2014 probation hearing, the legitimacy of the Butterfly Labs operation could soon be decided
once and for all.

“I’m on a good track now”

According to the United States Postal Inspection Service, victims collectively lost more than
$25 million during the lottery scam Vleisides participated in. The government accused his father,
James Ray Houston (who has since passed away in prison), of being the mastermind behind the
entire scheme. As the USPIS wrote in January 2011:

According to the indictment, the victims were purchasing “positions” in tickets for lotteries
that would be grouped together or “pooled” to buy larger blocks of tickets, thereby increasing
their chances of winning. Funds received from victims were not used to purchase tickets, but
to pay “winnings” to other victims, to fund the scheme, and to benefit the defendants.
Victims were sent checks falsely represented as lottery “winnings;" however, the amount of the
alleged “winnings” was far less than the amount the victim had sent in.

Vleisides and three others were also implicated in the scam, and he took a plea deal.
In a post on Bitcoin Forum in September 2012, Vleisides described the experience this way:

After two and a half years preparing, we neared trial. The prosecutor calls for a meeting and
offers me a deal. I can go home if I accept a single count of mail fraud and skip the trial.
They would drop 23 charges and leave me with a simple postal violation (lesser count of mail fraud).
I thought about it and it didn't take long for me to agree to get the shackles off.
I signed and went home to my mother's house in Kansas City. I sat there looking at the wall for a
long time. I didn't feel like leaving the house much. It was difficult to get over the emotional loss.
My life was ruined. Mom got me an account on match.com and encouraged me to date. I met a
wonderful girl and we had a little boy. We named him Indy. My life continued and I started to look
for a new project to begin again. A fresh start. I'm on a good track now, trying to put the past
behind me.

When Vleisides moved to Missouri, his case was transferred to that federal district for judicial supervision
of his probation, which included this “special condition”:

The defendant shall not engage, as whole or partial owner, employee or otherwise,
in any business involving loan programs, gambling or gaming activities, telemarketing
activities, investment programs, or any other business involving the solicitation of funds
or cold-calls to customers without the express approval of the Probation Officer prior to
engagement in such employment. Further, the defendant shall provide the Probation Officer
with access to any and all business records, client lists, and other records pertaining to
the operation of any business owned, in whole or in part, by the defendant, as directed
by the Probation Officer.

Vleisides recovered from his mental slump and soon helped start Butterfly Labs.
According to a 2012 court document, Vleisides’ lawyers say that BFL “began on napkins,
scraps of paper, and spare parts on his kitchen table," adding that "the hours that Mr.
Vleisides has put in to develop the product have been long and arduous. There have
been times when he arrived before the sun came up and left after it went down."
While Vleisides was "remorseful about what has occurred," he was looking toward a
better future, they added. "The justice system could not ask for more from a person
that has been punished."

Revenue and a growing rap sheet

But on September 3, 2013, Vleisides’ probation officer, Courtney Pierce, filed a
violation report with the Missouri federal judge handling his case (just over two months
after Ars published our first articles about Butterfly Labs and its mining machines).
In her memo to the judge, Pierce wrote that Vleisides was now an employee of and
the dominant shareholder in BFL, a company which "advertises all of its technology
for purchase through pre-order... Vleisides did not seek the express approval of the
probation officer prior to engaging in a business that involves the solicitation of funds
through pre-orders."

She continued:

The Probation Office has been notified by the US Postal Inspection Service that hundreds
of complaints have been filed against BFL from individuals who have placed pre-orders for
hardware from BFL.

The seriousness of Vleisides' instant offense [the lottery scam], coupled with his
current involvement in a somewhat similar business enterprise are cause for concern.
Before Vleisides' violation, BFL was already facing accusations of fraud and mismanagement.
In December 2013, a German-Polish man who lives in China filed a lawsuit over a $62,000
order that was never fulfilled; he accused BFL of breach of contract, fraud, and negligent
representation. And Butterfly Labs lost a civil case by default in Kansas’ Johnson County
Court in late November 2013. The plaintiff, a Californian named William Lolli, won a judgment
of more than $13,000 but told Ars that he has not yet collected the award.

The company's troubles may only worsen from here. A new lawsuit filed in early
April 2014 (read the 21-page complaint) accuses BFL of engaging in “deceptive
and unconscionable business practices.” The suit, which seeks class-action status,
was filed earlier this month in Kansas. It accuses BFL of collecting payment for
“non-existent Bitcoin mining equipment, failing to ship Bitcoin mining equipment orders
for which consumers have pre-paid, misrepresenting the date such equipment is to
ship to customers, and profiting from Bitcoin mining for Defendant’s own benefit using
customers’ equipment without permission or authorization from customers.”

BFL, its corporate attorney, Vleisides, and Vleisides' criminal attorney all failed to
respond to Ars’ repeated requests for comment. But it's clear that despite all the legal
wrangling, the company is doing well. According to testimony from BFL’s de facto chief
financial officer, the company expected to earn $25-$30 million in revenue in 2013.

Buying a pool and an Audi

Vleisides appealed before US District Court Judge David Kays on December 17, 2013 to
answer Pierce's probation claims. There, government prosecutors submitted a
seven-page document from Vleisides’ lawyers detailing the structure of BFL and Vleisides'
relationship to it.

One of the noteworthy revelations is that Butterfly Labs acquired a local Kansas-based
Bitcoin mining pool, Eclipse Mining Consortium, for $100,000 in 2012. The pool's founder,
Josh Zerlan, is now a vice president at BFL. (Zerlan publicly announced that he took a
job with BFL in 2012, but he did not mention that he actually sold his company to BFL.
Zerlan did not respond to a request for comment for this article.)

The revelations get murkier from there. For the first time, the public learned that Butterfly
Labs runs its own Bitcoin mining pool for “testing” purposes—and the company uses this
test pool to make money. “[BFL] earns mining income from their burn testing of machines
as well as service fees charged to Eclipse customers,” documents state. This revelation
represents some of the worst fears held by skeptics of BFL—that the company is using its
own hardware to profit privately before sending miners to people who actually paid for them.

Also coming to light during testimony was the depth of BFL customer frustration.
In court, probation officer Pierce talked about how she uncovered thousands of
complaints filed against BFL at the Federal Trade Commission and PayPal.
She said that Chad Williams, a PayPal global asset protection officer,
told her that as of September 2013, PayPal froze BFL’s account containing
$11 million and that PayPal received 6,000 complaints in total. Notably,
200 more complaints were filed between mid-November and mid-December 2013,
and, on the day of court testimony alone, three more complaints were filed.

“Butterfly Labs is permanently barred from accepting PayPal as payment for
their products," Pierce added. (PayPal spokesperson Anuj Nayar declined to
comment specifically on Butterfly Labs, but he did say that the company is
"no longer processing payments through PayPal.")

“PayPal is not the only place we have received complaints from,” Pierce told the
court. “There is [the Federal Trade Commission] Consumer Sentinel, a law
enforcement website where people can get online and submit complaints
about different companies. As of October 18 of this year, there had been
173 complaints submitted online to Consumer Sentinel, with a total of over
$600,000 complained to being losses from Butterfly Labs.”

Pierce testified that Vleisides’ 2012 tax returns show his ownership interest in
a Bahamas corporation called Future Engineering that was incorporated
November 2, 2012. According to BFL's tax returns, the company lost more
than $800,000 in 2012, Pierce said—and yet the letter from Vleisides’ lawyers
notes that the company loaned $150,000 to CEO/CTO Nasser Ghosieri, $26,000
to VP Jeff Ownby, and $65,000 to Vleisides himself. Those loans all came in
below market rates and all were “based on expected future profitability.”

CEO Ghosieri, an Iranian who lives in France, previously told Ars he never met
Vleisides and has never been to visit the BFL operation in Kansas. (Although,
this photo from Ghosieri's Facebook page dated April 2014 appears to show
him with Vleisides in person at BFL's headquarters, although it could have been
altered.)

Furthermore, Pierce noted that "Vleisides' finances have been in question for
the past several months," particularly because his residence "was recently
purchased by BFL for approximately $400,000 in cash." BFL even bought him
an "expensive vehicle" (an Audi) that Vleisides uses.

"I'm pulling for you"

During the hearings, Vleisides' lawyers made the case that these were all
normal business operations. The Bahamas corporation, they said, was
created by a law firm which represented Butterfly Labs previously, but it
was now a “dormant corporation.” And de facto Butterfly Labs CFO
Bruce Bourne, who resides in San Francisco but commutes to Kansas City
two weeks each month, took the stand to explain Vleisides’ house and car situation.

“The car itself, you know, my understanding is that this is not the first car
that the company has owned and that the original car that the company
owned when customers came from out of town to visit the facilities, the
company loaned them the vehicle to use instead of them having to rent a car,”
he testified. “Other executives who traveled from Chicago—
I come from San Francisco—had access to using that car. Other people
who are employed by the company come to town from out of town are
able to stay at the corporate residence.”

The bigger issue centers around BFL's core operations and all those delays
after taking people's pre-order money. Bourne described the company's
current operations and past financial performance, saying that BFL had a
peak of 110 employees, but it's smaller now.

“At current time, because we’ve manufactured and shipped all the products
in the backlog and we are not yet producing the next version of the product,
we have downsized, laid off staff who were assembling parts and components
that are not necessary right now,” he said. “So at this point the company is
about 60 people. But our expectation is when we do begin to construct the
next iteration of these products, [we] will increase staff to manage that production.”

"You need to get your toothbrush and get your things in order, because
fraud will not be tolerated."

As for revenue, in 2012 BFL earned $2.5 million. “For 2013 we have not
finalized the financial statements, but I expect that the revenue for 2013
is going to be between $25 and $30 million,” he said, adding that BFL's
liabilities are “north of $10 million.”

Bourne also provided more details about resolving the PayPal situation
by shipping long-delayed products to customers.

“By [September 2013] there were 23,000 PayPal orders, of which about
2,000 had been shipped. About $1.5 million out of $19 million total,”
he said. “That’s mid-September. Every week after that I updated that
report so that we could show them progress against reducing the backlog
and lowering PayPal’s exposure, although there were $5 million more in
orders than there was in money held. So it took a while to get down to
where that backlog was—even with the amount they were holding.
We reached that point in about mid-November.”

Ars contacted Bourne, who declined to be interviewed in person or by
phone as he was "in a different time zone and working some long hours."
At Bourne's suggestion, Ars submitted questions via e-mail, but has not
yet received a reply.

Despite the testimony of Bourne and other witnesses, Judge Kays expressed
clear reservations about BFL's business and Vleisides' involvement in a
company taking so much cash up front. He ordered two supplementary
years of supervision for Vleisides, along with a new set of conditions that
include regular government access to his "person, his property, house, residence,
office, vehicle, papers, computer, other electronic communication or data,
storage devices or media, and effects." He said Vleisides must work with
Pierce "to communicate, create transparencies. Any loan, especially $64,000
or whatever it is, is something she needs to know about before it's made, no matter [what]."

The judge's most damning comments, however, centered on his overall BFL observations:

Now, there is a stench coming from Butterfly Labs. It's a strong smell.
It's not enough to send you to prison today, because, to be quite honest with
you, if it was, we'd be talking about 24 months in prison. It's not—I think it's
too close. I think [defense witness] Mr. Bourne did a very good job of testifying,
and it assisted your defense greatly. But if I find out that there is this fraud
word involved in this part, you know, Mr. Vleisides, as we say here at the courthouse,
you need to get your toothbrush and get your things in order, because fraud will not
be tolerated, you understand that? So I would work very hard to make these
consumers happy consumers who you've dealt with.

The wheels of justice

On the heels of Vleisides' probation, BFL now moves immediately to the new lawsuit.
Kyle Alexander, and Dylan Symington et al. v. BF Labs (PDF) describes two
attempted purchases made by the named plaintiffs. Alexander claims that he paid
$308 to BFL in June 2013 for a low-end mining machine. However, despite repeated
inquiries to BFL, Alexander was simply told “shipping had begun”—yet his box didn't arrive.

In March 2014, Alexander again asked about his order and was simply informed that
it was changed to a “Mining by the GH” (gigahash) product, an as-yet-unreleased
product from BFL.

“Plaintiff Kyle Alexander never changed or modified his order and never gave
Defendant permission to use the equipment he ordered to mine bitcoins for itself or
for anyone else,” says his complaint. “To date, Plaintiff Kyle Alexander has not
received any mining equipment from Defendant. Since Plaintiff Kyle Alexander
pre-paid for his order of mining equipment from Defendant in June of 2013, numerous
bitcoins have been mined by others, and the difficulty of mining new bitcoins
has substantially increased over such time.”

The other named defendant, Dylan Symington, paid $1,333.00 to BFL in April 2013
but did not receive his order for seven months.

Both men allege that BFL engaged in deception under the Kansas Consumer
Protection Act, received unjust enrichment, and made negligent misrepresentation.
BFL has yet to formally respond to the new charges.

Jody Drake, BFL's general manager and one of the three members of BFL's board of
directors (Vleisides and Ghoseiri being the other two), told Ars that the company
"shipped 45,000 units last year." Despite many lawsuits alleging the opposite,
she said that "everyone received their orders after much delay."

When asked how BFL got involved with Vleisides to begin with, Drake simply said:
"I know his family," before ending the call. In her September 19, 2013 affidavit as
part of Vleisides' court filings, Drake said that she worked for his stepmother for their
commercial photo-finishing business and has known the family for 25 years.

Despite the "strong smell" coming from the Vleisides' probation hearing, it's still
not exactly clear whether BFL is an out-and-out scam. Butterfly Labs' refusal
to answer basic questions—such as how a man convicted of mail fraud came
to do business with another man in France that he's never met—does not
engender confidence. But as more complaints pile up, some are now turning into
lawsuits. And in light of a federal judge specifically calling out a co-founder's
questionable actions, the evidence is mounting. The questions of fraud surrounding
BFL may get answered sooner rather than later.
1837  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: nTek Computers | World's Most Powerful Bitcoin Miner - 2.4Th/s (to 3.2Th/s) on: April 22, 2014, 04:50:19 AM
unit to a reputable reviewer on the forum will help greatly, like Dogie.
This Wink They have my details.

They sent an earlier prototype board to Ben Turas if I am not mistaken. I am sure they would send out working units when they have them to people who are representative and have a positive reputation for evaluation.

As for fast, faster, fastest remark or powerful, more powerful most powerful are we talking proposed or demonstrated? Does SpondooliesTech have the most powerful proposed miner in single unit 2U configuration at 5.4Th/s + or - 10% most likely they do? But really at this point that is meaningless when there are racks and racks and racks in huge farms right? How many people are going to be plugging in that 5.4Th/s at 2500W at home?

1838  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: [Special Group Buy - Spondoolies-Tech SP30 pre-order] ***EASTER WEEK SALE*** on: April 22, 2014, 04:13:32 AM
PM sent. Deposit placed for 2 - SP30's. We are still talking about taking more units.
1839  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM on: April 21, 2014, 08:57:52 AM
It is a link to the CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against BFL. Not a referral to shop with them.
1840  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM on: April 21, 2014, 07:44:02 AM
Dont they have some class action law suit regarding on the pre-orders?

http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/butterfly-labs-and-bf-labs-inc-bitcoin-miners
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