It is not BS that the buyer is assuming all risks. <snip>
The customers (buyer) is the one that must assume all the risk. If you are going into a purchase of a machine that mines bitcoin thinking it should be relatively safe or risk free then all the years of bad deals bad players and ups and downs of BTC is never going to dissuade people from buying what amounts to to a HUGE risk. You can't reasonably trust anything or anyone, all deference to Spondoolies who I personally think are very reputable players so far, in bitcoin and even if they provide stellar 100% service you are dealing with an larger number of failure points from chip, to board to supply chain etc. You do your research. Arguing with a manufacturer about how they sell or price is valid. I would say that if you are not happy with the explanation they provide WALK AWAY AND DON'T BUY. Simple. I don't see how it is productive to hound them into changing policy if they are making a determination they do things a certain way. You won't be getting them to change. Point out their limits, ask them why they do it that way then walk away and don't look back. That is something I wish 1000s had done in the BFL, KnC, Black Arrow, Bitmine or HF or Cointerra or Avalon Batch 3 / Group chip buys. Given what has happened so far we can see the Spondoolies is doing it's best to resolve any confusion and help customers with questions. Very responsive at this stage there are few others delivering on time and to spec like Spondoolies but again if you don't like the price or the terms walk away and don't buy after you point it out to everyone. That is fair. My take on this is they are reasonable people. They are doing what they can to produce miners and chips and getting them to the public in an open way. Which given the recent move by many fabricators to sell to the deepest pockets Spondoolies is different. At some point in the near future individual home miners are doomed to collectivise anyhow so pooling resources will mean larger and larger orders and CONTRACTS. NEVER TRUST ANYONE IN BITCOINLAND... DO YOUR RESEARCH. YOU ASSUME ALL THE RISK EVERY TIME AND NO ONE IS TO BLAME BUT YOU WHEN YOU LOSE IT ALL. NEVER ONLY RISK WHAT YOU CAN'T CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. That is the bottomline to all the posts about the terms of sale in any miner fabricator thread. There is a reason for this stickied post from a long time Moderator and Hash Fast victim Gmaxwell READ IT: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=504530.0And a reason for rating companies here from Dogie READ IT: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691Can we let the people who are interested in asking questions about the terms and price and other aspects because they want to buy talk? I get you want to push the agenda that buying any miner is foolish. You might have a point again that is why the sticky is there and a reason why Dogie took the time to rate the companies selling miners. Let the thread mature so that people with valid questions about the product or orders can do just that. This is why all fabricators should start self-moderated threads. Asked and answered. If you got more concerns EMAIL them. They will be glad to explain it in detail without cluttering the thread with 100s of posts that will be repeated 100's of times over the next 12 to 18 months. |
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I am very interested in this for our FRC group that buy and mine collectively on Joe's Pool. Let me see what they think I am pretty sure we'd be interested. Just need a place we all agree to host a few of these. 197 SOLD already in a day holy crap need to hurry I guess.
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Building a board to fit those.
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The 5k isn't so far from 6333$. Simple math.
With logic like this you can see why we have conflicting views on the subject of difficulty increases. Psst what about the price of BTC? If we are going to speculate on hashrate why not BTC price? |
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Empty Gox.
You need to add that.
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I can tell you all the difference between real life and Bitcoinland. In real life a powerful entity like a government presides over insurance and business with rules and has the might to enforce those rules. In Bitcoinland libertarian fantasy elves believe they can give millions of dollars to complete strangers and have them be honest without any enforcement might or insurance.
Does Neo & Bee ring any bells for anyone? Lots of people knew who good ol Danny was. How about Trendon Shavers? There's a picture with some of the key players in Bitcoinland sitting around a table in Vegas talking with Trendon in person long before he fucked everyone. Now about Nefario? He was a mod here. GLBSE ring any bells?
In Bitcoinland when people get fucked over the libertarian fantasy elves scurry into the forest while real life law enforcement is contacted to solve the issue. The problem is that law enforcement has a problem finding jurisdiction that covers forest elves.
When someone with a real conscience like John the Dong (sorry John I like your old name better lol) decides to be upstanding even when faced with a personal crisis you people still want to bitch. I applaud you John for being the upstanding person Bitcoin needs more of in-mass. Maybe you can help lead the other elves out of the forest and into the light.
+1 hope he recovers fully and comes back strong. Agree the name was ok... should have kept it. I liked the double entendre that he didn't get.  |
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There are still people sending them money. Funny what hope fraud does to folks. My $.02.  FTFY True enough! Despite the complainers, it seems that the bigger the scam, the better it works! My $.02. The could have been a billion dollar company... too bad really. Orange jumpers instead of a nice Corneliani suit. |
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The list you provided doesn't really show flights the same as MH370... sure, they are similar, but I guess I take a more defined approach with this thinking because I want to compare an 'apple' to an 'apple', and not an 'apple' that is somewhat similar to another apple. To save my own time and sanity, I stuck with the accidents in the last 20-30 years that I am guessing you would see as similar to MH370 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522) Rapid decompression plenty of communication happened between the pilot and ground. Plenty of alarms, plenty of time for distress calls. They did contact the ground crew (but IIRC, they did not contact air traffic control, never sent out a panpan or mayday), but the problem was not fire as might be the case in flight 370, so there was no reason to cut power to the radio/transponder/etc (even though the last words of the captian were asking where certain fuses where, go figure). In case of an (electrical) fire, isolating the fire by turning off all electrical equipment is a lot more urgent than sending out a distress signal. If you go with the theory of an electrical fire + a decompression incident, I don't see how the plane goes on for 6+ hours and on the flight path they are stating. Why not? Engines need absolutely none of the electrical equipment in the fuselage. As I pointed out earlier, in the case of the Quantas Airbus A380 which had an engine explode, the crew did not manage to turn OFF another engine for several hours after landing, despite everything they tried, even hosing the engine with water from fire trucks. Once they run, engines only need fuel and they will keep running almost no matter what. Thats what they are designed to do. I may be able to accept a ghost flight without the fire, but without a fire then you can't explain the communications manually being turned off, which would imply a severe electrical fire or a hijacking.
I dont understand why you think this is weird or impossible? An electrical fire doesnt necessarily have to rage out of control, especially not if all fuses were pulled, no longer feeding of the fire. All you need to incapacitate the crew is smoke, and having shut down, or the fire disabling most of the electrical stuff, you'd have no airconditioning, no ventilation and perhaps even no continuing pressurization. Guess what happens next? Generally speaking, I find it hard to believe that a vicious fire could have taken out the crew without being able to send a distress signal, and then continue to fly on for 6+ hours until running out of gas. Who said the fire was viscous? Just how much plastic do you think needs to burn or smolder to intoxicate 200 people crammed together in a small room with no ventilation and low oxygen levels? If you show me an incident, in the past, which had some type of electrical fire and a decompression issue that incapacitated the crew quickly enough for them to not be able to send a distress signal AND force them to quickly disable electronics to stop a fire before sending a distress signal AND THEN having that plane somehow continue to fly for 6+ hours while making turns You know, there is a reason very few accidents happen more than once in an identical way. Its because we are maniacal about flight safety and from every crash we learn and make sure it doesnt happen again. Id be more shocked to find a strikingly similar accident had happened before. +1 nothing else to add other than grammar Nazi stuff so I will refrain. Let's hope that the engineers actually get some parts to piece together what happened. There is a probability that something lurking silently threatening crews and passengers in this aircrafts design that needs to be addressed or in the maintenance regime at Malaysia Airlines. |
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Wow...$0.38/KWh...FORGET it... It is cheaper for you to host them...I guess... Not in germany. If i host it here i'll pay the same as at home but i'll get professional cooling and added setup/monthly cost.  "thanks obama merkel"  It's not Obama's fault,I dislike him myself,it's ASICminer/KNC/MEGAbigpower & a few other massive farms reaping in millions that is killing mining for Anyone who's small time...............  I see the end before 2014 is over for "average joe" home miner,like myself,even altcoins are going to "farms"  +1 The only way to prolong the fun is to group and collectivize make it more like a hobby club. There seems to be a lot of movement that way seen quite a few posts asking people to come together and share resources at city level / regional level. |
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Like I said in PM get an engineer to explain it after you have given them your thoughts. In terms of safety if you are unsure don't even begin a project like this. Given that the Iceotopes are set in a multimillion dollar server facility and functioning without any reservations from the engineering team that gives me confidence to say they have resolved the issues you are talking about or they are not an issue as they have designed that issue out of the system. In terms of what you want to do you should try and get a hold of the details on the Allied Control system. Obviously it is operating at standard pressures those boxes are not sealed with extreme pressures in mind and ratcheted down and by the looks of them you can get the lids off fairly easily with a socket wrench just a little more than finger tight I bet. The tanks are there to seal out the dust etc and keep the vapor in not to put the system under pressure. The tanks have enough volume to allow for the gas to condense and not build up pressure and explode. They talk about the tanks as only 30% capacity. Again get an engineer to do the calculations. Also look at the other immersion thread someone already built a DIY unit and I believe this was also discussed. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255613.0 http://www.allied-control.com/blog/immersion-2-tech-details-cooling-hundreds-of-kilowatt-with-1500-wattOnly 25% of Condenser Capacity in Use
The condensers are very efficient. The current hardware is only scratching the surface of single condenser capacity at water temperatures of around 35°C. Total capacity of a condenser is ~25kW at that temperature and we can install three more per tank. Our systems can also modulate water flow rates or increase water temperatures (hot water cooling) to get more out of them. We could easily move up to different fluids with higher boiling points to save more energy. Or we could automatically switch on or off our dry cooler modules. All this will have a large impact on performance and efficiency (we are not just talking a few percent here). And all these changes, except adding more condensers, don’t even require a screw driver. And having modular condensers also means we could always upgrade for something with more capacity.
Only 30% of Space Used in Tanks
Only the lower 30% of the physical space in the tanks is full with hardware and fluid at this moment. The condensers are modular and there is a rail on top. Filling our enclosures with more hardware or arrange it differently (ie. two layers), is very easy if the client decides to move to next gen hardware, and so is packing things a little denser (given that they can get rid of the LAN wiring and integrate communications to a backplane). http://www.slideshare.net/petehopton/iceotope-presentation-dec2011An older exploding view of the Iceotope. Obviously some tweaks in the design.  Notice the TOP loading board in the newer version? Why did they do that? Easier to load and maintain the unit? Pressure issues? Who knows why. |
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They have to evacuate the air somehow no matter what unless what you build is a pressure vessel I guess or as you say a relief valve that allows gas out but not liquid.
But you don't need that in your tank, condenser version at home. There is plenty of space and everything is under normal atmospheric pressure in that system.
I think there would still be a chance of explosion of there is no condensing and all the liquid is boiled. Really? Doubt that. The design would be rated so that wouldn't be possible meaning they would allow for a complete failure of the cooling and the unit will simply get hot and never boil the fluid. Besides they would also set the pressure to something like sea-level or more so that boiling would not be possible. I think they have already engineered it very well as the units are fully functional and this is 8-9 year design build in the making design right? You wouldn't never do this as DIY at home. I don't see any valves looks to be a simple sealed unit.  Iceotope Unit $6300 Euros. |
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They have to evacuate the air somehow no matter what unless what you build is a pressure vessel I guess or as you say a relief valve that allows gas out but not liquid. I'd like to send them a few boards so they can seal them up and mine on them.
But you don't need that in your tank, condenser version at home. There is plenty of space and everything is under normal atmospheric pressure in that system.
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+1 thanks for that detail notes and research. Now that means you would have a sealed section that is not under substantial pressure correct or designed to take pressure and not explode even if the water is shut off and can't flow on the otherside? How to do they fill the space with Novec and I am guessing there will not be 100% fluid in the space depending on how the fill it the have to account for expansion of the liquid at temperature. I'd like to see how the boards are loaded inside and how they keep the unit sealed. http://blog.iceotope.com/2012/03/its-cooler-to-soak-your-servers.htmlEach module is a server is encased in a leak-proof box filled with 3M's Novec 7300. On heating, this inert liquid expands 10 times more than water and so generates convection currents that carry the heat away, aided by a chimney effect created by the internal shape of the box. It convects very fast – up to 6 cm/sec according to Hopton -- and is less viscous with a lower surface tension than water, which enables it to reach the parts that water might not.
And this is obviously way off what Jimmothy is looking to do as he said he is looking at 2-phase closed tank system as a possible DIY for his miners. Maybe we need to get back on that track. My design would be closed. Basically allied controls design with a lid. Why would you need it open?
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I don't waste time fighting people online , everyone is entitled to his opinion , isn't it ?
But when you do what happens ? What happens is you get a ban and a post count over 19000 like Phinny Gauge right? |
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Ya I am the IRS. |
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Uncontrolled Decompression Incidents Posted again for those that missed it buried in the garbage. Far from unique there are plenty every year. Decompression incidents are not uncommon on military and civilian aircraft, with approximately 40–50 rapid decompression events occurring worldwide annually. "Rapid Decompression In Air Transport Aircraft" (PDF). Aviation Medical Society of Australia and New Zealand. 2000-11-13. Retrieved 2008-09-01.[26] It doesn't help your case much comparing an incident that happened to a local town 43 years ago involving 3 people with an incident involving multiple countries, 239 people, and modern day technology. A car crash of that nature, today, would have been found. In any case, your drawing conclusions without evidence the same way tinfoil hatters do. Where are these past similar events? This seems like a pretty unique situation. It helps put it in PERSPECTIVE. A car can go missing right off a known travelled road and not discovered for 43 years. A plane can do the same. Let us not let the tinfoil hats win. A horrible accident happened. We need to know what happened to protect others from the potential maintenance or engineering flaw. It was NOT aliens, NOR conspiracies or any other BS story your imagination can come up with. I did my part by previously posting the list cabin depressurization accidents and it is not a short list by far and most probably fits this scenario although there maybe others. When you got a theory that relates to what is at least remotely plausible then let us talk about it. The theory I put forward has been put forward by commercial pilots as a plausible explanation. You have to start with the theory that makes some sense and is based on the facts as they are given. A plane travels hours and crashes well off course in the Indian Ocean? What does that sound like when you compare it to past events like this? If I was going to believe anything then it would be fire and decompression and pilots become incapacitated for a plane to fly along then run out of fuel and crash that far off course. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10711590/Malaysia-Airlines-MH370-Cairo-777-cockpit-fire-could-yield-clues-to-missing-plane.htmlhttp://www.wired.com/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/I suggest when it is found they will find something like this as the cause. You don't need the god of the GAPS argument to make an educated guess. People are making educated guesses. LISTEN to them. There is no point speculating further until more evidence surfaces, but in the meantime it serves no purpose to malign pilots who well may have been in a struggle to save this aircraft from a fire or other serious mechanical issue. Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah was a hero struggling with an impossible situation trying to get that plane to Langkawi. There is no doubt in my mind. That’s the reason for the turn and direct route. A hijacking would not have made that deliberate left turn with a direct heading for Langkawi. It probably would have weaved around a bit until the hijackers decided where they were taking it. http://www.wired.com/2014/03/malaysia-air/ All you have to do is educate yourself. Read widely be skeptical. Just don't ignore the obvious. It took investigators two years to recover the black box data recorder from Air France Flight 447, which went down over the Atlantic on June 1, 2009.
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