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timmmers
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August 29, 2013, 12:48:49 PM |
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I think a simple slogan maybe.
Mine, all mine.
As for knowing that KnC don't have chips ? Really? How do you know they didn't get them this morning? Because they didn't bleat about it on a forum? Maybe the day they DO get chips (or did) they thought of more important things to do with them? They could have them in hand any day now, or have them already.
Maybe a quick test and a pic of an assembled module or real performance data from that would prove to be a better laxative to their competitors in their eyes?
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sickpig
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Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
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August 29, 2013, 12:50:02 PM |
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Having said that you can be sure that Gen1 ASIC devices based on 1XXnm technology will reach their "electrical breakeven point" (EBP) a lot sooner than the one based on 28nm tech. see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281279.0quoting the relevant table just for clarity's sake: Specs Process Eff (J/GH) [1] Diff (mil) Hashrate (PH/s) Pre-order availability (per manufacturer)
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KNC 28nm 1.8 [3] 11,600 83.0 Existing: Sept/Oct New: Oct
Hashfast 28nm 0.8 25,100 179.7 Existing: Oct New: not accepting orders
BFL (Monarch) 28nm 0.8 [4] 26,200 187.5 Existing: Feb New: [5]
Cointerra 28nm 0.7 [2] 29,900 214.0 Existing: Jan New: Jan
Device Process Eff (J/GH) [1] Diff (mil) Hashrate (PH/s)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Avalon 130nm 8.3 2,500 17.9
ASICMiner 110nm 7.7 2,700 19.3
BFL (SC) 65nm 5.0 4,200 30.1
Bitfury 55nm 1.0 21,000 150.3
FPGA various 50.0 400 2.9
GPU various 330.0 60 0.4
There are still GPU miners with free electricity....ever heard of the term? seriously how many of them do have access to free[1] electricity? 100%, 90% or less? then you have to take into account that GPU isn't "application specific" whereas by definition ASIC devices are. [1] "free" is a strong word, e.g. take my case I have access to "free" electricity b/c I have solar panels, but I can assure you they are not free, nor in terms of initial investment and nor in terms of maintenance |
Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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klee
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Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
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August 29, 2013, 12:50:41 PM |
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I think a simple slogan maybe.
Mine, all mine.
As for knowing that KnC don't have chips ? Really? How do you know they didn't get them this morning? Because they didn't bleat about it on a forum? Maybe the day they DO get chips (or did) they thought of more important things to do with them? They could have them in hand any day now, or have them already.
Maybe a quick test and a pic of an assembled module or real performance data from that would prove to be a better laxative to their competitors in their eyes?
Sorry dude, here only 1 rule applies now: Show me the chips! Go read Labcoin thread how people attacked on the announcement without proofs. KnC: Late to party! |
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klee
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August 29, 2013, 12:53:01 PM |
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Having said that you can be sure that Gen1 ASIC devices based on 1XXnm technology will reach their "electrical breakeven point" (EBP) a lot sooner than the one based on 28nm tech. see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281279.0quoting the relevant table just for clarity's sake: Specs Process Eff (J/GH) [1] Diff (mil) Hashrate (PH/s) Pre-order availability (per manufacturer)
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KNC 28nm 1.8 [3] 11,600 83.0 Existing: Sept/Oct New: Oct
Hashfast 28nm 0.8 25,100 179.7 Existing: Oct New: not accepting orders
BFL (Monarch) 28nm 0.8 [4] 26,200 187.5 Existing: Feb New: [5]
Cointerra 28nm 0.7 [2] 29,900 214.0 Existing: Jan New: Jan
Device Process Eff (J/GH) [1] Diff (mil) Hashrate (PH/s)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Avalon 130nm 8.3 2,500 17.9
ASICMiner 110nm 7.7 2,700 19.3
BFL (SC) 65nm 5.0 4,200 30.1
Bitfury 55nm 1.0 21,000 150.3
FPGA various 50.0 400 2.9
GPU various 330.0 60 0.4
There are still GPU miners with free electricity....ever heard of the term? seriously how many of them do have access to free[1] electricity? 100%, 90% or less? then you have to take into account that GPU isn't "application specific" whereas by definition ASIC devices are. [1] "free" is a strong word, e.g. take my case I have access to "free" electricity b/c I have solar panels, but I can assure you they are not free, nor in terms of initial investment and nor in terms of maintenance Trust me, only here there are more than you can imagine: civil clerks in various offices, hospitals, army, people stealing electricity in the country...lol In Greece many people who bought panels now they don't know what to do them (due to some government scam as usual) and for a very small fee they rent them to miners... |
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Cablez
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I owe my soul to the Bitcoin code...
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August 29, 2013, 01:03:49 PM |
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How about being realistic: Race to the Bottom!
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Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup??? Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right! No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
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sickpig
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August 29, 2013, 01:29:48 PM |
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seriously how many of them do have access to free[1] electricity? 100%, 90% or less?
then you have to take into account that GPU isn't "application specific" whereas by definition ASIC devices are.
[1] "free" is a strong word, e.g. take my case I have access to "free" electricity b/c I have solar panels, but I can assure you they are not free, nor in terms of initial investment and nor in terms of maintenance
Trust me, only here there are more than you can imagine: civil clerks in various offices, hospitals, army, people stealing electricity in the country...lol sorry dude but I do not trust anyone, I hope you don't take it personally :-) anyhow I think that your idea of the world is quite biased toward the Greeks behaviour and as someone who have lived in south Europe for a while I can understand you. In Greece many people who bought panels now they don't know what to do them (due to some government scam as usual) and for a very small fee they rent them to miners...
sorry for being pedantic but small fee != free anyhow as you've already wisely said, time will tell. |
Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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klee
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August 29, 2013, 01:43:48 PM |
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seriously how many of them do have access to free[1] electricity? 100%, 90% or less?
then you have to take into account that GPU isn't "application specific" whereas by definition ASIC devices are.
[1] "free" is a strong word, e.g. take my case I have access to "free" electricity b/c I have solar panels, but I can assure you they are not free, nor in terms of initial investment and nor in terms of maintenance
Trust me, only here there are more than you can imagine: civil clerks in various offices, hospitals, army, people stealing electricity in the country...lol sorry dude but I do not trust anyone, I hope you don't take it personally :-) anyhow I think that your idea of the world is quite biased toward the Greeks behaviour and as someone who have lived in south Europe for a while I can understand you. In Greece many people who bought panels now they don't know what to do them (due to some government scam as usual) and for a very small fee they rent them to miners...
sorry for being pedantic but small fee != free anyhow as you've already wisely said, time will tell. All valid arguments, I just want to point out that electricity efficiency is not YET the most important factor... |
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phr33
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August 29, 2013, 01:45:34 PM |
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No KnC doesn't have chips on their hand, now. And you know it, doesn't you? And more to the point, we can't be 100% sure KnC will deliver on time, if ever. that's a fact. Having said that you can be sure that Gen1 ASIC devices based on 1XXnm technology will reach their "electrical breakeven point" (EBP) a lot sooner than the one based on 28nm tech. see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281279.0quoting the relevant table just for clarity's sake: Specs Process Eff (J/GH) [1] Diff (mil) Hashrate (PH/s) Pre-order availability (per manufacturer)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KNC 28nm 1.8 [3] 11,600 83.0 Existing: Sept/Oct New: Oct
Hashfast 28nm 0.8 25,100 179.7 Existing: Oct New: not accepting orders
BFL (Monarch) 28nm 0.8 [4] 26,200 187.5 Existing: Feb New: [5]
Cointerra 28nm 0.7 [2] 29,900 214.0 Existing: Jan New: Jan
Device Process Eff (J/GH) [1] Diff (mil) Hashrate (PH/s)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Avalon 130nm 8.3 2,500 17.9
ASICMiner 110nm 7.7 2,700 19.3
BFL (SC) 65nm 5.0 4,200 30.1
Bitfury 55nm 1.0 21,000 150.3
FPGA various 50.0 400 2.9
GPU various 330.0 60 0.4
According to KNC their efficiency is below 1.6 W/GH/s.https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-31 |
My BTC input: 1GAtPwoTGPQ35y9QugJueum5GzaEzLYjiQ My GPG ID: B0CCFD4A |
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sickpig
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August 29, 2013, 01:49:54 PM |
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sure you're right, in fact DeathAndTaxes is waiting for clarification before updating this data point. |
Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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happyagnostic
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August 29, 2013, 02:02:31 PM |
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SLOGAN ENTRY
MINE YOURS
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Bitcoinorama
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August 29, 2013, 02:06:35 PM |
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sure you're right, in fact DeathAndTaxes is waiting for clarification before updating this data point. Indeed i beieve D&T is factoring in PSU for an 'at the wall' figure. That said we don't know whether any of the other manufacturers estimations are 'at the wall' quotes, or not either. For the most part, i.e. those wth chips yet to be in hand, these are all simulated estimations, we just know that one still has margins applicable... |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful  BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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over1977v
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Activity: 116
Merit: 10
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August 29, 2013, 02:08:25 PM |
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Slogan: Mine today, tommorow might be new retarget
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Bitcoinorama
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August 29, 2013, 02:08:31 PM |
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I'd imagine so. There are four moduar boards in Jupiter, two in Saturn, one in Mercury, so in my mind that makes sense. |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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Meizirkki
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August 29, 2013, 02:11:14 PM |
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HashFast, Cointerra, KnC pending...
they will have 28nm chips. Bitfury still only 50% of KnC power draw  and already delivering |
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klee
Legendary
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Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
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August 29, 2013, 02:41:56 PM |
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HashFast, Cointerra, KnC pending...
they will have 28nm chips. Bitfury still only 50% of KnC power draw and already delivering Bitfury at wall is around 1W/GH KnC Max at wall is 1.6W/GH Somehow I'm not seeing the 50%  Would you prefer a 400GHs by Bitfury delivered in a week or a 400GHs by KnC early October? That is the question my friend... |
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klee
Legendary
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Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
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August 29, 2013, 02:46:37 PM |
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HashFast, Cointerra, KnC pending...
they will have 28nm chips. Bitfury still only 50% of KnC power draw and already delivering Bitfury at wall is around 1W/GH KnC Max at wall is 1.6W/GH Somehow I'm not seeing the 50% Would you prefer a 400GHs by Bitfury delivered in a week or a 400GHs by KnC early October? That is the question my friend... That isn't the question, depends on cost. Would I pay $20,000 for a unit delivered now max 400GH or $7000 Delivered 30 Days from now with Minimum 400GH? Was it $20,000 priced? Don't forget that it exists |
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klee
Legendary
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Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
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August 29, 2013, 02:51:38 PM |
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HashFast, Cointerra, KnC pending...
they will have 28nm chips. Bitfury still only 50% of KnC power draw and already delivering Bitfury at wall is around 1W/GH KnC Max at wall is 1.6W/GH Somehow I'm not seeing the 50% Would you prefer a 400GHs by Bitfury delivered in a week or a 400GHs by KnC early October? That is the question my friend... That isn't the question, depends on cost. Would I pay $20,000 for a unit delivered now max 400GH or $7000 Delivered 30 Days from now with Minimum 400GH? Was it $20,000 priced? Don't forget that it exists Bitfury 55nm ASIC by Reel (October Delivery)?? This are Asic Chip??
You are selling 3000 chip for Euro 45K?/ so Euro15 per chip or $19.5?? and each chip is 5gh/s??, so 3000 x 5gh/s = 1.5TH??
Amazing, July you charge E240K x $1.30 = $312k but October only E45K x $1.30 = $58.5 ?/ Opps this are all Euro.
$19.50 per chip of / 5gh/s = $3.90 per gh/s is very reasonable I would say.
But your full kit is expensive - 400gh/s for $9750 is $24 per gh/s.
I would go Bitfury mate, sorry... EVEN NOW I would prefer October BF than October KnC because a chip exists 100%. EDIT: BTW missed both these trains, oh well... |
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carlotech
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August 29, 2013, 02:53:27 PM |
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Its almost september, i am getting exited to see the chips.  |
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